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  1. #1
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???

    I recently built up a carbine running 26inch wheels, xx1 and some other good bits. I found the steering way too twitchy so put in a 1.5 degree angleset and am running a 170mm lyric with 780mm bars. The geo and riding position now feels really good and while the bike is an impressive climber and great in the corners it really isn't very good on rough descents.

    I've found the carbine rear end really packs up and wallows over root balls, and the rear end lacks traction. It's the worst of both worlds - too firm for good traction but when you hit the rough stuff instead of being lively the suspension just bogs down. I've just come off riding 2 SC nomads and the suspension on the nomad feels much more refined.

    Has anyone else had a similar issue? I'm trying to figure out whether the RP23 (200psi boost, 155psi in main chamber running 22% sag, no propdedal) is just a piece of crap or whether the Intense incarnation of VPP is just inferior to the VPP2 from SC. Has anyone tried running a different tune or shock (monarch, or CCDB)?

    I tried running more sag (30%) but it just felt worse.

  2. #2
    I fix your broken ****!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcanoclastic View Post
    I recently built up a carbine running 26inch wheels, xx1 and some other good bits. I found the steering way too twitchy so put in a 1.5 degree angleset and am running a 170mm lyric with 780mm bars. The geo and riding position now feels really good and while the bike is an impressive climber and great in the corners it really isn't very good on rough descents.

    I've found the carbine rear end really packs up and wallows over root balls, and the rear end lacks traction. It's the worst of both worlds - too firm for good traction but when you hit the rough stuff instead of being lively the suspension just bogs down. I've just come off riding 2 SC nomads and the suspension on the nomad feels much more refined.

    Has anyone else had a similar issue? I'm trying to figure out whether the RP23 (200psi boost, 155psi in main chamber running 22% sag, no propdedal) is just a piece of crap or whether the Intense incarnation of VPP is just inferior to the VPP2 from SC. Has anyone tried running a different tune or shock (monarch, or CCDB)?

    I tried running more sag (30%) but it just felt worse.
    My guess is that your shock is junk. The VPP used on all current Intense frames is the same "VPP2" on current Santa Cruz bikes, so the feel should be fairly similar.

    The Carbine tends to be pretty lively and plush when you point it downhill, so the DH style setup from the rest of the bike may just not be matching up well with the RP23 you have. You might want to look into something like the Rockshox Monarch Plus or a Cane Creek Double Barrel Air to balance out the bike more towards your style. With one of these reservoir-equipped shocks you can run 28-30% sag and still keep the platform balanced and not wallow through the mid stroke too harshly.

    Make sense? Let me know what ya think

  3. #3
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    I recently bolted a BOS Kirk to my Carbine and it transformed the bike. I could not come to terms with the RP23 and I wanted more tuning options.

  4. #4
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    I experienced similar issues with the stock rp on my carbine.
    I'm probably at the other end of the spectrum from most, in that I'm 150 lbs., & the bike rode like almost a hardtail over small trail chatter, & felt like it slamed into the bigger stuff. Different sag settings didn't help noticeably.
    I replaced that shock with a large canister older RP from my reign, much better overall for me.
    Probably should contact push & see if anything could be done to fix the oem shock??
    I'm dealing with the twitchyness from time to time as well. Gonna try wider bars with a little less rise.

    However, I must say, despite all my complaining, I REALLY do like the bike otherwise.
    It seems to handle better the faster it's pushed on the downs!

  5. #5
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    22% Sag is nowhere near enough sag for a VPP bike. Run the shock at 30% (yes it sounds excessive) sag which translates into around 17mm of sag measured on the shock shaft and it will feel much better. Admittedly the Fox is not the best damper out there but you will make it feel much better if you run the correct amount of sag.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the comments guys.

    I did play with the shock a bit and tried a few different sag settings. I've been riding various VPP bikes for years and often run a bit more than the recommended 30% - often around 40% as it does tend to make the suspension a bit more responsive on the downs (if not the climbs). In this case unfortunately running more sag didn't help. In fact, I found the best feeling setting was in the 140mm travel mode with about 10% sag! Weird, but anyway. Fox suspension does seem to be very hit and miss these days, so the RP23 could well be a dud.

    I'm looking at the CCDB option, a friend has got one spare that should fit. Will see how that goes

  7. #7
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    Good call on the CCDB. In my opinion it is the ONLY shock to run in ANY bike - but I haven't ridden anything from BOS in recent years. The CCDBA outstrips the CTD Kashima damper in every way, even without the climb switch option you can tune it to feel petter and pedal as well as the Fox.

    Go to the Cane creek lounge for a tune on the CCDBA, the length shock you need is 200 x 57mm.

    Good luck!

  8. #8
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    I am running almost the same setup as you. 170 Lyrik with 760mm bars. I agree that the RP23 is junk. I installed a DBAir and never looked back. I run 32% sag and it makes the bike feel like it has a coil. I just used the Tracer tune and have tweeked from there. The bike climbs better than a coil. I would get the standard Air not the CS.

  9. #9
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    Hi guys,
    I've just built up a 2013 Carbine 26er and I am not impressed with the CTD fox shock, it's too harsh in Trail mode and clatters over the trail and then it dives right through its travel!!!, the O ring ends up right at the bottom of the shock with 25% Sag, I have avoided running 30% as previously mentioned incase the shock bottoms out and I damage it...very disappointing! My previous bike, Trance X advanced, would ride all day with shock open and very little bob.

    Anyone tried a Monarch RC3 on this bike?
    Intense Carbine
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  10. #10
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    Hey Muchas,

    The Monarch RC3 is a great upgrade from the standard CTD shock. Get a mid/mid tune for it and you won't look back!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonMan View Post
    Hey Muchas,

    The Monarch RC3 is a great upgrade from the standard CTD shock. Get a mid/mid tune for it and you won't look back!
    Hey Thanks for the rec, I'll see if I can grab one in the sale..;-)

    How do you know mid/mid is the correct tune?
    Intense Carbine
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muchas View Post
    Hey Thanks for the rec, I'll see if I can grab one in the sale..;-)

    How do you know mid/mid is the correct tune?
    No worries Muchas, here's a leverage/tune chart for RockShox, it's for Vivid but will give you an idea of what tunes to use for specific leverage ratios. Most manufacturers (including Intense) will use custom tunes outside whats available to the public but you'll be able to get your shock feeling great with one of the standard RX tunes.

    I'd email Intense customer service (Sam Intense customer service on these forums) and ask them. They will be able to give you the heads up on which RX tune to use.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???-tune-guide.jpg  


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muchas View Post
    Hi guys,
    I've just built up a 2013 Carbine 26er and I am not impressed with the CTD fox shock, it's too harsh in Trail mode and clatters over the trail and then it dives right through its travel!!!, the O ring ends up right at the bottom of the shock with 25% Sag, I have avoided running 30% as previously mentioned incase the shock bottoms out and I damage it...very disappointing! My previous bike, Trance X advanced, would ride all day with shock open and very little bob.

    Anyone tried a Monarch RC3 on this bike?
    Or keep the fox and have it tuned by avalanche. They do away with the boost valve and add their speed sensitive shim stack. Transforms the ctd.


    Float CTD and RP23 SSD Modifications

    Check out the reviews in the knolly forum. I've had an avalanche tuned vanilla rc. And I've had push stuff before. From now on all my tuning business goes to avalanche. Craig is awesome to deal with

  14. #14
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    --deleted

    Read the post wrong sorry.

  15. #15
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    I've a tracer VP and experienced the same problem as U described. I made the switch from the RP-23 to a DHX-AIR. And the difference was very noticeable.

    My bike runs a bit higher on its travel now ( which I like ) the shock have much more ways to adjust it and 4 u to find a proper setting for ur like.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???-img222.jpg  

    shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???-img225.jpg  

    GOD SPEED # 58 YOU'LL BE MISSED

  16. #16
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    Well, I've been having some fun. I ordered a CCDB air CS and it took a while to come. So I rode the sh*t out of that RP23. It sure likes to bottom out - about 50 times a ride. I kind of got used to the suspension wandering around vaguely over massed root balls and square edge hits, drifting is fun!

    Now the CCDB is here and fitted. First impressions are - vastly improved square edge performance and no continual bottoming on drops. No mid stroke wallow at all, nada, none. Actually trying to bottom out harshly is almost impossible. This is very handy for running into obstacles that would otherwise smash on my XX1 chainring (since the carbine has no iscg mounts for a taco bash), just manual and let the rear wheel do it's thing.

    Took it for a 7,000 vertical foot climb/descent today and now I'm tired, but the bike performed beautifully. I've got running 31% sag and set up lighter than recommended on the compression circuits, and slightly quicker than recommended on the rebound. This makes it very active, but the CS takes care of that on long griding climbs and I don't mind trading a bit of efficiency for maximum traction on techy climb sections.

    And the Intense VPP is different to the Santa cruz version, no doubt about it. It's more active and less affected by pedal feedback. This in my view is a good thing as it makes pedalling gnarly root/rock sections much easier. My nomad hasn't made it out of the garage in 2 months now, it just doesn't go fast enough!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    Or keep the fox and have it tuned by avalanche. They do away with the boost valve and add their speed sensitive shim stack. Transforms the ctd.


    Float CTD and RP23 SSD Modifications

    Check out the reviews in the knolly forum. I've had an avalanche tuned vanilla rc. And I've had push stuff before. From now on all my tuning business goes to avalanche. Craig is awesome to deal with
    Hey Thanks for the heads up, will check them out
    Intense Carbine
    Giant Trance X Advanced
    Giant Trance X1 (08 MY) Upgraded
    PK Ripper - The Legend

  18. #18
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    I am looking into change my rear shock in my carbine 26, could guys tell the correct size of the CCB double barrel air? do you have any issue fitting the shock into the frame?

    thanks

    Cesar

  19. #19
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    So, after no getting any information from this thread I e-mail cane creek about the shock for the carbine, and this is what I got. The 200 x 55mm DBAir CS will fit all sizes in 'short-travel mode'. Long travel mode will only work on Large and XL frames.

    Cesar

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcanoclastic View Post
    Well, I've been having some fun. I ordered a CCDB air CS and it took a while to come. So I rode the sh*t out of that RP23. It sure likes to bottom out - about 50 times a ride. I kind of got used to the suspension wandering around vaguely over massed root balls and square edge hits, drifting is fun!

    Now the CCDB is here and fitted. First impressions are - vastly improved square edge performance and no continual bottoming on drops. No mid stroke wallow at all, nada, none. Actually trying to bottom out harshly is almost impossible. This is very handy for running into obstacles that would otherwise smash on my XX1 chainring (since the carbine has no iscg mounts for a taco bash), just manual and let the rear wheel do it's thing.

    Took it for a 7,000 vertical foot climb/descent today and now I'm tired, but the bike performed beautifully. I've got running 31% sag and set up lighter than recommended on the compression circuits, and slightly quicker than recommended on the rebound. This makes it very active, but the CS takes care of that on long griding climbs and I don't mind trading a bit of efficiency for maximum traction on techy climb sections.

    And the Intense VPP is different to the Santa cruz version, no doubt about it. It's more active and less affected by pedal feedback. This in my view is a good thing as it makes pedalling gnarly root/rock sections much easier. My nomad hasn't made it out of the garage in 2 months now, it just doesn't go fast enough!
    I am also planning to upgrade my Medium Carbine 275's Fox to CCDB with CS. Will the shock fit? what is your frame size? thanks.

  21. #21
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    7.875 eye to eye with 2.25 stroke CCDB CS fits in a medium frame no problems running in both 140mm and 152mm travel settings. The Air can end needs to go against the upper link.

  22. #22
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    with CCDB CS

    Carbine M with CCDB CS tested today. Worth every penny.

    shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???-img_0277_zps1590d206.jpg


  23. #23
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    shock tune on 26inch Carbine - rp23 feels rubbish???

    Is the RP23 the same/similar to the Fox Factory Float CTD? I'm considering a frame but don't want to have to replace a brand new shock at an additional expense.

    I should also mention I'm going 275. Not sure if Intense has tuned differently for theses wheels. I'd assume so since the wheel has been shifted.

    Sam has been super helpful so far.

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