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  1. #1
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    Intense VP build - chainline question

    OK, this question is for a mate of mine (honest) who hasn't been able to post on here for some reason.

    He's building up a Tracer VP in medium, and when running granny front and lowest gear at the back (i.e. biggest sprocket) the chain rubs on the lower VPP bolt.

    Any advice? He'll be grateful.

    Cheers. htc

  2. #2
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    I am having the same issue on my Tracer, no solution but definitely interested.

  3. #3
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    I checked this out on my personal Tracer that has a lot of miles on it as I have never noticed any rubbing or noise while riding in that gear combo. I have 2008 XTR crank & cassette. I did notice that there might be a bit of chain slap in this area but this didn't seem to be a problem also when the sag is set up on the bike properly that pivot moves up and away from the chain and is only close when static with no weight on it.
    The only thing I can think is that the bottom bracket or spindle spacing is to close with your crank setup. Check this out.

  4. #4
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    I don't know what type of bottom bracket you are using but here is a possible answer. If it is a Shimano external bearing, did you put in a spacer on the drive side. I have seen people leave it out on 73mm. bottom brackets.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  5. #5
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    yea, I'm having the same issue, baaaadddd rubbing in granny and also in the middle ring in the highest cog in the rear--I want to run an e-13 drs but cant seem to get it to work---it hits the lower link.........

  6. #6
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    I have the spacer in between the frame & BB cup & I noticed the chain rubbing the lower pivot bolt when the bike is on the stand. When seated & sagged it doesn't look like it would be an issue while riding.

  7. #7
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    Cheers guys. Two things seem to be coming out of this. First Raceface cranks/bb seem to be worse than Shimano for this issue. Second, it looks like the problem may not actually show up while riding because of the sag (thanks sanjosedre). Will update when Mike's finished the build.

  8. #8
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    So I had my wife take a picture while I was sitting on the bike (sagged) & found that while in a 22/32 combo that the chain does in fact rub the lower pivot bolt. I do have a single spacer in between the BB cup & frame & the they are XT cranks.
    Pics attached & how many spacers is everyone running with external BB bearings?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
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    check this....from SantaCruz forum...its a BLUR LT2 also with the gen2 vpp...seems like the new UZZI need a 83/100 BB?
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  10. #10
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    Would the length of the rear derailleur cage have anything to do with this? I am planning on running a long cage derailleur on my Tracer that I will be building soon but this may have nothing to do with it. This problem really concerns me since I am a stickler about having a clean setup on my bike. The chain trashing by pivot bolt will drive me nuts.

  11. #11
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    Well, Mike has now realised he was trying to fit a 68mm bb which was one reason it wasn't working, duh (his comment, not mine).

    Will report further once he has tried a 73mm isis set up. Looks like this is not a unique issue though - and not one you need on a frame of this price.

    By the way sanjosedre - apart from the nice bit of rusty chain ; ) is that bottom link bolt tight - it looks like it has come slightly loose?

    Cheers.

  12. #12
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    No rust there mate, that is some good bay area dirt on that chain.

    I also checked the pivot bolts, all torqued to spec.

  13. #13
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    Dre, is that some FRO foam stuffed between the link?

  14. #14
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    Sorry I don't know what FRO foam is but yes I always stuff foam in between the frame & the bottom link to prevent rocks getting jammed in there & damaging the link (I had this happen before).

  15. #15
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    Did you lose or remove the circlip on your lower pivot bolt?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjosedre
    So I had my wife take a picture while I was sitting on the bike (sagged) & found that while in a 22/32 combo that the chain does in fact rub the lower pivot bolt. I do have a single spacer in between the BB cup & frame & the they are XT cranks.
    Pics attached & how many spacers is everyone running with external BB bearings?

  16. #16
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    I had lost it but luckily my local shop had extras.

  17. #17
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    Question:

    I am considering purchasing a new Tracer VP, are you guys telling me that everyone is having this chainline issue?

    Is it not fixable?

    Thanks,
    Brett

  18. #18
    Dude, got any schwag?
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    No problem here.

    Truvativ Stylo (exo) FYI.
    Billy

    Speed is sweet, it's like an avenue to
    ... Shredtopia!

  19. #19
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    No problem with Saint on the VP

    No problem with Shimano Saint on my Tracer VP

  20. #20
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    this looks real bad...expecially considering the new gen vpp is supposed to pedal better in the granny on the S.Cruz and Intense...on steep hills you need that gear ratio, but serious chain rub stops me buying one, period...didn't this get figured out on prototypes?

  21. #21
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    For the folks free of issues, there is no rubbing of the chain onto the lower pivot bolt at all?

    I don't understand why my tracer may be the exception on this.
    hmmm

  22. #22
    Dude, got any schwag?
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    I'll look again tonight, but feel certain that this is an isolated issue. I am one persnickety mother f*&#er when it comes to noises & clearances & stuff. IE, if I haven't heard anything, it's not happening.

    And by the way, this thing climbs better than my Blur XC.

    Now, if I can just find the rough sections of trail I used to ride. It really seems odd that they smoothed out ALL the trails just when I got this bike.
    Billy

    Speed is sweet, it's like an avenue to
    ... Shredtopia!

  23. #23
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    Sanjosedre, Could you post a side shot of your bike so I can see your set up as from the photos it looks like you have a extreme chainline and not sure what your fron chainring & crank setup is. May be if you are running a 22 tooth granny with a weird offset or something?
    After you posted we checked all our demo bikes, personal & mag test bikes as we have never had any rubbing or grinding issues while riding in this gear combo. There will be some chainslap in this area and under the chainstay same as on the previous VPP bikes but this is nothing serious that we have seen & we have been riding these bikes since December 07. We run mainly Shimano drivetrain but as you can see from photos there are lots of combinations out there.

  24. #24
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    Here you go Jeff
    Details are as follows;
    XT 770 73mm Crankset
    2.5mm BB Cup Spacer
    King rear hub with SRAM 990 Cassette
    Let me know if you need any more information.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #25
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    Hi all,

    I am the 'Mate' who couldn't post originally,- Thanks Hamish for posting for me.

    After no joy with my RF deus setup, I decided to buy some 2nd hand XT HTII cranks (and use the same RF BB)

    Picture attached shows the clearance - i.e. nothing.

    AND this is after I backed the bolt back into the frame a bit so the circlip actually touches the VPP link, - it was a couple of mm proud before that. Now it pedals in that gear with just about no rubbing... however it rubs when backpedalled.

    Lovelly bike and all that, but I expected to able to fit standard parts for my £1650 outlay.

    Regards

    Mike
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #26
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    I noticed something similiar on my Tracer at the conclusion of my last ride. I payed no attention to it assuming it wouldn't hit when pedal pressure was applied becuase I figured there was no way it was designed to where it could and I was in a rush to get somewhere. My bike is at the shop getting its i9's retrued but I will definitely take a closer look when I get it back. If it is not rubbing, I can assure you it is darn close (usagged anyways). BTW, all new XT drivetrain and I9 enduro hub.

    Couldn't this issue just be solved (if indeed it is an issue as I am not sure it even is yet) by turning around the bolt?

    Edit: Mine was rubbing in the lowest gear combo. The flat bolt should hopefully fix the problem. I will report back once I get it in the mail and installed.
    Last edited by smithrider; 10-31-2008 at 08:20 PM.

  27. #27
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    So I just finished a ride at Santa Cruz & first off THIS BIKE ROCKS!!!!
    It feels so damn balanced descending & climbs remarkably well.
    I still have some rub on the bolt but it doesn't hamper performance or create any noise. It is a minor effect in my opinion & is such a small penalty with the performance of the bike.
    Incredibly impressed with this bike.

    My XT cranks are about 6 months old & were taken off of my SlopeStyle rig since the RF Atlas cranks were a no go on the tracer.

  28. #28
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    This question is for Mr. Intense:

    I need to know can I run a single ring chain guide LG-1 or a DRS?, I need to know fellow Intense lovers that this is an isolated issue or maybe a set-up error?

    I can not spend all this money and have this issue, it will drive me crazy!

    Thanks,
    Brett

  29. #29
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    mine's set up (correctly) with XTR and XO and also has this issue, I don't care that much because I will never use that gear combo, but, COME ON! The only thing I care about is if this is an alignment issue.

  30. #30
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    We are aware from day one of the close chain tollerance in this gear combo.
    As this was more of a static issue ie when the bike is in a stand or not preloaded or tension on the chain,I really didn't see any issue with it other than the chain slap on the stay and link.I thought we might get some complaints about the chainslap as we saw this on the BLT 2 but nobody made anything much of it. You must realize that if the sag is setup and you are riding the bike the link moves away from the bolt & clip, you will get some chainslap in this area as this design has a low chainstay. 22 tooth granny gears most likly make the overlap worse as all our bikes have been set up with 24,s and there is no noticable grinding when riding in this gear combo. We do have a flush bolt that does not have the c clip on it and is flush with the link, this will give you about 1/8" of clearance to the link when the bike is static in this gear combo, we will make those avail if you want one and there is no issues without the clip as it is just there as a second safety as the set srew is the main one.I don't know what else to say about this but we did send 25 preproduction Tracers out to our best dealers and distributers before start of production to see what they thought about the new Tracer vp and not one mentioned this as an issue.
    I hope this helps.

  31. #31
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    I happened to have an extra flush mount pivot bolt from the 5.5 I used to own. I mounted it up & now have 3-4mm of clearance. Perfect & easy solution!

    Bravo

  32. #32
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    Sounds good Mr Intense, where might one acquire one of these bolts?

    Regards

    Mike

  33. #33
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    So can we install a single ring chain guide like a LG-1?

    Thanks,
    Brett

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett ferguson
    So can we install a single ring chain guide like a LG-1?

    Thanks,
    Brett
    I will check this today,we have a DRS on one of the Uzzi protos but it has the ISCG 05 mounts machined into the bb, on the Tracer you would have to use the behind the bb cup style mount.

  35. #35
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    Thanks Mr. Intense, a flush bolt will fix any potential issue just fine. I hope this thread doesn't overshadow how great this bike is. I will hopefully post my full review this weekend. I look forward to reading others as well.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjosedre
    So I just finished a ride at Santa Cruz & first off THIS BIKE ROCKS!!!!
    It feels so damn balanced descending & climbs remarkably well.
    I still have some rub on the bolt but it doesn't hamper performance or create any noise. It is a minor effect in my opinion & is such a small penalty with the performance of the bike.
    Incredibly impressed with this bike.

    My XT cranks are about 6 months old & were taken off of my SlopeStyle rig since the RF Atlas cranks were a no go on the tracer.

    Which Santa cruz? Blur LT2?
    Is better Blur lt2 than Tracer VP? :eekster
    I dude between BLT2 and tracer VP and your opinion is very interesting ... please tell me more about your opinion about these bikes. Thank you.
    Last edited by migue; 11-03-2008 at 12:51 AM.

  37. #37
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    This thread will certainly not stop me acquiring one if I can negotiate the necessary domestic permissions.

  38. #38
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    Chain rub too on Demo from Intense

    First off, let me say this bike is sweet, but today, my second day demoing a tracer, I noticed the chain rub while in granny. It wasn't a dig, but it is touching the lower VPP pivot bolt. Supposedly this bike is a build direct from Intenese.

  39. #39
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    Has anyone installed a chain guide system ie. LG-1 or a Gamut on the Tracer VP, if so could you post some pics?

    Thanks,
    Brett

  40. #40
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    New Bolt Installed

    Intense rushed a new flush bolt out to me as I was one of the ones with the rubbing. I just got done installing the flush bolt and there is now ample clearance as expected. If I remember next time I have the camera out, I will take a photo with the flush bolt so you can see the clearance in the granny. Problem solved.

    They were also kind enough to send detailed instructions that were idiot proof if I was able to get it done in a couple of minutes. Back to riding before it gets too snowy here in Colorado.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeydee
    Hi all,

    I am the 'Mate' who couldn't post originally,- Thanks Hamish for posting for me.

    After no joy with my RF deus setup, I decided to buy some 2nd hand XT HTII cranks (and use the same RF BB)

    Picture attached shows the clearance - i.e. nothing.

    AND this is after I backed the bolt back into the frame a bit so the circlip actually touches the VPP link, - it was a couple of mm proud before that. Now it pedals in that gear with just about no rubbing... however it rubs when backpedalled.

    Lovelly bike and all that, but I expected to able to fit standard parts for my £1650 outlay.

    Regards

    Mike

    hi
    first ride today and first disapointment,

    same problem as above with my xtr crankset



    is there any solution,please ?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjosedre
    So I had my wife take a picture while I was sitting on the bike (sagged) & found that while in a 22/32 combo that the chain does in fact rub the lower pivot bolt. I do have a single spacer in between the BB cup & frame & the they are XT cranks.
    Pics attached & how many spacers is everyone running with external BB bearings?
    Hi,
    did you find an issue about this problem ?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr intense
    I checked this out on my personal Tracer that has a lot of miles on it as I have never noticed any rubbing or noise while riding in that gear combo. I have 2008 XTR crank & cassette. I did notice that there might be a bit of chain slap in this area but this didn't seem to be a problem also when the sag is set up on the bike properly that pivot moves up and away from the chain and is only close when static with no weight on it.
    The only thing I can think is that the bottom bracket or spindle spacing is to close with your crank setup. Check this out.
    Hi Mr intense,
    I ve got also an xtr crankset on a M tracer frame and I have notice that the same problem as other people.
    I ve got the good sag, I have put only one ring with the BB cause it is a 73mm.

    what would happen if I put two ring, as it would be a 68mm ?

    thank you

  44. #44
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    Lucash290

    Just contact your dealer or Intense and ask for the flush bolt for the lower link. It solves the issue. I now have ample clearance on mine. They also send the bolt with detailed instructions on proper install for idiots like me.

    I really do not understand why they would still ship the Tracer with the C-Clip bolt as the fliush mount works just fine and eliminates any potential issues.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    Lucash290

    Just contact your dealer or Intense and ask for the flush bolt for the lower link. It solves the issue. I now have ample clearance on mine. They also send the bolt with detailed instructions on proper install for idiots like me.

    I really do not understand why they would still ship the Tracer with the C-Clip bolt as the fliush mount works just fine and eliminates any potential issues.

    thank you smith,

    I m gonna contact right now my dealer.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    Intense rushed a new flush bolt out to me as I was one of the ones with the rubbing. I just got done installing the flush bolt and there is now ample clearance as expected. If I remember next time I have the camera out, I will take a photo with the flush bolt so you can see the clearance in the granny. Problem solved.

    They were also kind enough to send detailed instructions that were idiot proof if I was able to get it done in a couple of minutes. Back to riding before it gets too snowy here in Colorado.

    yes a picture would be fine ,

    is the new flush bolt is different than this one ?

  47. #47
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    Yes, you have the standard C Clip bolt. The flush bolt fits flush with the swinglink. The reason you have rub is the bolt sticks out past the swinglink to accomodate the c clip. The flush bolt (which they will send for free - at least they did for me) will fix the rubbing.

  48. #48
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    At this point I do not have a Tracer but I am a long time Intense owner and I'm a bit concerned about this bolt situation as a new bike is under consideration.

    My 5point5 came with flush fitting bolts nearly five years ago now. I still have them in my parts box. The problem at the time was the bolts working loose and turning out, even though there are grub screws on the box link. The fix which worked well was using blue Loctite and the [then] new bolts with C-clips.

    Now I'm wondering, is the old problem going to come back or is there some difference in design to prevent it?

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  49. #49
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    intense tracer lower link and rear triangle rub

    Intense VP build - chainline question-tracer1.jpgIntense VP build - chainline question-tracer.jpgIntense VP build - chainline question-tracer2.jpg
    I have had the same issue for 3 years and have been sluffed off by intense. With that treatment when I dropped 4500 bucks, I wont be a intense purchaser again. Like the bike besides this big issue. I have ordered for 125 bucks a new lower link that should alleviate the problem. Intense should give this to me plus a new rear triangle.

  50. #50
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    Get one of these: Bionicon USA C-Guide Chainguide
    ZERO issues for me!

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    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

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