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  1. #1
    V-Shaped Rut
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    Is Intense overpriced?

    I saw this posted on a number of 'which bike' threads and it seems to be a prevailing attitude? I haven't done price comparos myself since I'm not in the market for a new bike? Back in '03 when I bought my original tracer frame prices where very comparable with everything else out there and I felt the quality was far and away better than anything out at the time. I don't think I could have built a better bike for anywhere NEAR the cost.

    Have things changed? Are the bikes now significantly more expensive than anything else out there? Have the other manufacturers caught up in build quality? I know this is the intense forum but try to be honest.

  2. #2
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    Coming from a Capitalist

    If they sell all they make, then it's time to raise prices until the bikes stop selling

    No seriously, I haven't compared the market price on high end bikes lately and I don't shop for my bikes by price; but by features and benefits. IMHO Turner, Intense, Foes, Pivot, Ventana, and some I've overlooked, land in the "Boutique" end of the spectrum. I feel most who frequent these forums would lay down for a relatively expensive frame if it demonstrated some operational advantage over another less expensive frame. Therefore pricing, whether high or lower within a range, would not determine which frame was purchased. Of course some of us are posers and just have to have the latest and greatest ........ oops. I don't like the way this thread is going.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  3. #3
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    I think Moots is overpriced, haha

  4. #4
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    I don't think they are over priced, you get what you pay for. The obvious comparison is to Santa Cruz. When i was buying my Uzzi i looked at the Vp FreE the Finish is a lot better on the Uzzi. i.e suspension link are machined not cast and the head tube area is completly surrounded on the Uzzi not on the Free. If Intense build like this i'm happy to pay a bit more. Most of all they ride well!!!!!!

  5. #5
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    Prices are suppost to increase

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikerx
    If they sell all they make, then it's time to raise prices until the bikes stop selling

    No seriously, I haven't compared the market price on high end bikes lately and I don't shop for my bikes by price; but by features and benefits. IMHO Turner, Intense, Foes, Pivot, Ventana, and some I've overlooked, land in the "Boutique" end of the spectrum. I feel most who frequent these forums would lay down for a relatively expensive frame if it demonstrated some operational advantage over another less expensive frame. Therefore pricing, whether high or lower within a range, would not determine which frame was purchased. Of course some of us are posers and just have to have the latest and greatest ........ oops. I don't like the way this thread is going.
    Apparently from what i have read the prices of frames and components is only gonna get higher due to the cost of materials. Besides i know some dudes that ride the old frames that kill it, so i believe it is matter of dollars and what you want to ride. Obviously we all like to have the new M6 or Socom but for most it is too costly i would gladly take a gently used m3 in place if the m6 was too much. As for being a poser my drive train is good old 8 speed i never upgraded to 9 speed and it works great i like to spend my money on things i know will work for me not the latest and greatest

  6. #6
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    Intense is in fact quite well priced. Have you had a look for example at the price of a new Turner 5 Spot frame. $2495.00

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  7. #7
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    considering they are handmade in the States, they are very reasonably priced. The Tracer VP is effectively two bikes, as will be the new Uzzi...for these 2 models the price seems even better!

  8. #8
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    I do not think they are overpriced, they are expensive but I am willing to pay that for a quality made in USA frame. If my M6 was welded anywhere other than Temecula I would expect the price to go down a lot.

  9. #9
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    All models are flexy as sh!t and most have irregularities. For example, my beloved 6.6 is super flexy in the rear (even with a bolt on wheel) and the head tube isn't spec'ed properly for a 1.5 headset; the sad part is that Intense knows this and there customers are aware of this as well but we've all accepted this as the norm inorder to have a cool American made frame. I've had friends with rear triangle alignment issues on there SS's and Socoms. It seems that Intense has more issues regarding imperfections on there frames than any Taiwanese made frame that I have seen. However, at the end of the day it depends on what the consumer values the most and many value "Made in America", hydroformed tubing and the bling bling factor that Intense offers. Admittedly, I love Intense and hate to sell my 6.6 but its lagging in performance and needs to be replaced. Thus, I have an 09 Nomad on order so I can compare the two VPP systems before giving up on it.

    So, is Intense worth the money? Not for me.

  10. #10
    Old school BMXer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downhilldoug
    Apparently from what i have read the prices of frames and components is only gonna get higher due to the cost of materials. Besides i know some dudes that ride the old frames that kill it, so i believe it is matter of dollars and what you want to ride. Obviously we all like to have the new M6 or Socom but for most it is too costly i would gladly take a gently used m3 in place if the m6 was too much. As for being a poser my drive train is good old 8 speed i never upgraded to 9 speed and it works great i like to spend my money on things i know will work for me not the latest and greatest
    If you're looking for a gently used SMALL sized M3, I have one for sale. Honestly, if it weren't for me needing a correct sized frame (needed a medium) I wouldn't have gone to an M6. The M6 is a very nice frame but, assuming the M3 were the right size, I don't really see that much of a benefit. However, I wouldn't have known that until I took the leap (but I had to take the leap because the small M3 was too small).

    In regards to the comment of Intense being a boutique brand, I tend to disagree. Intense mass produces frames (based on the idea that they are built in essentially an assembly line or batch process). I consider boutique bike companies those who build essentially one frame at a time.

  11. #11
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    since mr intense started using this forum I think a certain value has been added to the brand as before it felt somewhat removed. I would say Intense frames are good value, say 7/10.

    10/10 for passion, history, US made.

    If money is a concern used old skool tracers can be picked up for a couple of hundred bucks. That's major value!

  12. #12
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    I guess I fail to see this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    If you're looking for a gently used SMALL sized M3, I have one for sale. Honestly, if it weren't for me needing a correct sized frame (needed a medium) I wouldn't have gone to an M6. The M6 is a very nice frame but, assuming the M3 were the right size, I don't really see that much of a benefit. However, I wouldn't have known that until I took the leap (but I had to take the leap because the small M3 was too small).

    In regards to the comment of Intense being a boutique brand, I tend to disagree. Intense mass produces frames (based on the idea that they are built in essentially an assembly line or batch process). I consider boutique bike companies those who build essentially one frame at a time.
    I guess I fail to see why setting up an assembly line to make frames, thereby simply making it more efficient, has anything to do with quality. I think you look at quality, hand made, with good customer service, that is a boutique brand, and Intense does it all. Hell, they even CNC their own links, parts, etc., in house rather than outsourcing that. Boutique? I guess that depends upon definition, but if you make that distinction based upon an assembly line, I'm not sure how that translates into quality. One person can weld an entire frame, and it could be a piece of $$%@^. I wouldn't consider that a "boutique"...

  13. #13
    Old school BMXer
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    Quote Originally Posted by esquire
    I guess I fail to see why setting up an assembly line to make frames, thereby simply making it more efficient, has anything to do with quality. I think you look at quality, hand made, with good customer service, that is a boutique brand, and Intense does it all. Hell, they even CNC their own links, parts, etc., in house rather than outsourcing that. Boutique? I guess that depends upon definition, but if you make that distinction based upon an assembly line, I'm not sure how that translates into quality. One person can weld an entire frame, and it could be a piece of $$%@^. I wouldn't consider that a "boutique"...
    You have misread what I wrote. I made absolutely no reference to quality. Mass produced manufacturers and boutique builders can offer high quality. They can also offer poor quantity. I made no reference to customer service. I also made no mention where the sub components are built. Honda automobiles, for example, manufacturers it's own engine and transmission assemblies, stamps and welds its own sheet metal, and assembles all of the components into a working unit. Just like Intense, some smaller components, such as shocks, are outsourced (both companies do that). So what's the difference? Really, there isn't much.

    The small auto companies - basically the ones that build one or two cars at a time - are just like the truly small bike companies that build one or two frames at a time designed specifically for the customer. Ask Intense to build you a frame with a different geometry, and report back to us how it works out for you. Ask any true boutique frame builder for custom geometry, and you'll likely get what you want, even down to the color.

  14. #14
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    definitions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    You have misread what I wrote. I made absolutely no reference to quality. Mass produced manufacturers and boutique builders can offer high quality. They can also offer poor quantity. I made no reference to customer service. I also made no mention where the sub components are built. Honda automobiles, for example, manufacturers it's own engine and transmission assemblies, stamps and welds its own sheet metal, and assembles all of the components into a working unit. Just like Intense, some smaller components, such as shocks, are outsourced (both companies do that). So what's the difference? Really, there isn't much.

    The small auto companies - basically the ones that build one or two cars at a time - are just like the truly small bike companies that build one or two frames at a time designed specifically for the customer. Ask Intense to build you a frame with a different geometry, and report back to us how it works out for you. Ask any true boutique frame builder for custom geometry, and you'll likely get what you want, even down to the color.
    I guess that is kind of my point, it depends upon your definition of boutique. In my definition, quality if a primary concern. We have a local guy here who half a$$ tack welds 6-7 pieces of steel together, mounts a set of tires to it, and then calls it a "Bike". Is he a "Boutique Frame Builder"? Not in my book, even if he does it all himself without the aid of an assembly line. Why? Because they are $hit, truthfully. Does he do it all himself? Yes, does he put out a limited amount of them? Very. Are they all custom? Not necessarily, but they can be.

    I do understand your definition as others have said the same thing, but I still think its all in how you view it. My view is quality, CS, somewhat limited production, hand made. To me, that makes a boutique. You narrow it further, thats fine.

  15. #15
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    Things that make Intense (and other brands like Turner and Ellsworth) "Boutique" brands:

    1) a focus on high-end products with no attempt at low-end mass market products
    2) made in America by a small company with a limited marketing budget
    3) shock, dropout spacing, and other "options" rather than a single spec
    4) stock and custom color options rather than just one or two colorways per model

    I don't think a company must offer custom geometry to be considered "boutique." When I go to a clothing "boutique," I don't expect tailored clothes- I expect higher-end brands rather than the mass-market experience I might get from a department store. In the same way, I don't expect to walk into just any average bike shop and find boutique bike brands- I only expect to see them at shops that cater to high-end mountain bikers.
    Former New Yorker, now in Fort Collins
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  16. #16
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    bou·tique
    Pronunciation:
    \bü-ˈtēk\
    Function:
    noun
    Usage:
    often attributive
    Etymology:
    French, shop, probably from Old Occitan botica, ultimately from Greek apothēkē storehouse — more at apothecary
    Date:
    1767
    1 a: a small fashionable shop b: a small shop within a large department store
    2: a small company that offers highly specialized services or products
    — bou·tiqu·ey \-ˈtē-kē\ adjective

  17. #17
    Old school BMXer
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    There are many definitions that can be used. Here's another from dictionary.com

    bou⋅tique   /buˈtik/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [boo-teek] Show IPA Pronunciation

    –noun 1. a small shop or a small specialty department within a larger store, esp. one that sells fashionable clothes and accessories or a special selection of other merchandise.
    2. any small, exclusive business offering customized service: Our advertising is handled by a new Madison Avenue boutique.

  18. #18
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    Compare an Intense SS or 6.6 to a Santa Cruz Nomad, within $200hundred dollars of each other, lots of options, same suspension. So the only thing left is attention to detail and US vs Taiwan.

  19. #19
    V-Shaped Rut
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    "If money is a concern used old skool tracers can be picked up for a couple of hundred bucks. That's major value!"

    No need, I already have one and the value can't be contested. When I switched from hardtail to FS back then I bought a cheaper Marin east peak. I rode it twice and resold it on e-bay. You want to talk about rear end flex, that thing was like a carnival ride.

    I decided that since I had ridden the hardtail for 5 years if I buy a FS I better buy the best I can because I'll ride it at least as long. I've had the tracer almost 6 years now and while it creaks and the rear shock is about done, the frame is still solid and climbs awesome as a 1x9.

    So I suppose when I'm ready for a new bike in the next few years (I want longer travel, I've got a singlespeed hardtail for not so gnarly trails) intense will likely be at the top of the list.

  20. #20
    Stylour
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    hmm... as i am from europe/austria, over here the pricing is sadly even higher - and those aren't only the import costs... its also a supply and demand thing as there aren't shipped that many frames to europe

    But for me personally, when i ordered my 6.6, my alternatives were SC, RM, nicolai, rotwild... all slightly lower priced frames (quality should be more or less equal in this price region), but the main factor for me was, that the 6.6 frame was the only one, i immediately knew was my frame, because of the well thought of, defined design. (ok i admit, i'm transportation design student myself so i'm handicapped )
    Of course SC Bikes VPP will work even the same way than intense's will, but thats not the point. The package of design intent, technology, the manufacturing, the way the marketing goes on (not the one of europe's importers, sadly ) ...its simply good - and therefor you buy it with the tradeoff of higher pricing.
    If you only need a bike - you're at the wrong place, if you want coherence in design and confidence in applied tech, intense is the right choice.

  21. #21
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    Yeah, what he said.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  22. #22
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    Is the new tracer vp still hand made in the USA?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sas2
    Is the new tracer vp still hand made in the USA?
    Is a duck's azz water tight? All Intense frames are hand made in Temecula, California

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    Is a duck's azz water tight? All Intense frames are hand made in Temecula, California

    Ronnie.

    I suposed so.....but some people is saying me that intense isn´t what it used, refering to their quality, because the new hidroformed frames look too taiwanese

  25. #25
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    Some of the bikes are starting to look the same.

    Ill be an Intense fan for a long time.

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