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  1. #1
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    Intense Cycles and IMBA ?

    Does anyone know if Intense is an active supporter of IMBA ? (and if not, why?)

    I'm a loyal Intense owner (own a 5.5 FRO and a 6.6) and a big IMBA supporter as they have done a lot for Trail Access in PA and the NorthEast.

    In my IMBA newsletters and websites I see just about every bike company represented except Intense. I'm just curious and a little disappointed why they wouldn't support such a great organization??

    If they already are then I apologize and great job.

    Thanks!

    Steve
    Ride like the fish

  2. #2
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    Why is this important? I rather have a company that builds great bikes and not actively supports IMBA than a company that builds crappy bikes but supports IMBA.
    Don't judge a company by who they support. Or do you want to be judged based on which organizations you support?
    Intense supports a lot of racers (worldcup to grass roots) and this way helps the sport (if "support" is important to you).

  3. #3
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    I don't care if Intense supports IMBA. I don't financially support IMBA.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    I don't financially support IMBA.
    I wouldn't brag about that.

    It would be nice for Intense to make a yearly supporting donation to IMBA, since IMBA and IMBA-affiliated clubs are doing the lion's share of trail advocacy all across the US, Canada and the rest of the world. If you're a mountain bike company, it's pretty important for your customers to have trails to ride.

    I woudn't stop supporting Intense if they didn't become IMBA supporters, but it would be a good karma thing to do...
    Former New Yorker, now in Fort Collins
    http://www.nycmtb.com

  5. #5
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    I agree - it's a good karma thing and makes good business sense. Were talking minimal $ for them to support more trails for people to ride their bikes on.
    Ride like the fish

  6. #6
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    The economy is tight for all industries and people these days. Very few people spend money for the sake of kharma. Without measureable ROI, spending money on kharma is a questionable investment. There are other places where Intense could invest their money that would make more business sense. Just the same, I invest my money in places that make more businesss sense. On a side note, IMBA has not been involved with any advocacy issues to support my local riding areas in southern California (they seem to be noticeably absent in many key areas) so I see no need to support them. Intense, also being in southern California, has probably noticed this as well.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    The economy is tight for all industries and people these days. Very few people spend money for the sake of kharma. Without measureable ROI, spending money on kharma is a questionable investment. There are other places where Intense could invest their money that would make more business sense. Just the same, I invest my money in places that make more businesss sense. On a side note, IMBA has not been involved with any advocacy issues to support my local riding areas in southern California (they seem to be noticeably absent in many key areas) so I see no need to support them. Intense, also being in southern California, has probably noticed this as well.
    IMBA's ROI is pretty hard to beat if you look at the dollars spent to new trails built ratio. If having new trails to ride and protecting trail access isn't a priority for mountain bike companies, then I'm not sure what should be a priority. The fact that major players like Trek are coming in for $200k/year and Specialized is contributing big funds to underwrite IMBA California says something about how they view trails as important to their mountain bike business model. Intense isn't Trek, of course, but a reasonable donation relative to the size of their business would be a great gesture and would help fight the ongoing battle for more trail access.

    Sorry to hear you think that IMBA isn't very present in SoCal (are you involved in a local club that's non-IMBA and builds/maintains trails without them? From what I've seen, IMBA-affiliated clubs CORBA and SDMBA are pretty active in building and maintaining trails). On the flipside, I've met trailbuilders from all over the country who are incredibly thankful for the support of IMBA. I've personally been working with them since 2005 on our NYC trails and if it weren't for the support of IMBA, we might not have trails here in NYC. Intense sells bikes all over the world, not just in SoCal, and supporting trails is good business wherever you are.
    Former New Yorker, now in Fort Collins
    http://www.nycmtb.com

  8. #8
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    Where are you guys heading with this discussion?
    Speci and Trek are great because they support IMBA? WTF? They produce their stuff overseas and do NOT support the local economy!
    Are you riding a pink Ellsworth because they support breats cancer reserach?
    Should car companies build streets because it helps them sell more cars?
    If you want trails then go out and help build them (this is what I do) and don't ask companies to donate to IMBA. If they do, great, if not they might have a reason. I wouldn't make my decision based on if they support IMBA, I rather look for the performance of their bikes, made in the US quality and CS.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iRider
    I wouldn't make my decision based on if they support IMBA, I rather look for the performance of their bikes, made in the US quality and CS.
    Sure, but all else equal, which one are you gonna pick?

    I for one do go out of my way to buy products that support my hobbies over those that do not. That said until now, I didn't know if IMBA is or is not supported by Intense.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    IMBA's ROI is pretty hard to beat if you look at the dollars spent to new trails built ratio. If having new trails to ride and protecting trail access isn't a priority for mountain bike companies, then I'm not sure what should be a priority. .
    If you're a mountain bike frame building company, your number one priority is to design, build, and sell frames that customers want to buy. That's what you do. Other companies and associations take care of the other things, and supporting them is optional. Intense didn't subsidize any of the fork companies so they could sell the 5.5 29er, so why should they subsidize other organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    Sorry to hear you think that IMBA isn't very present in SoCal (are you involved in a local club that's non-IMBA and builds/maintains trails without them? From what I've seen, IMBA-affiliated clubs CORBA and SDMBA are pretty active in building and maintaining trails). On the flipside, I've met trailbuilders from all over the country who are incredibly thankful for the support of IMBA. I've personally been working with them since 2005 on our NYC trails and if it weren't for the support of IMBA, we might not have trails here in NYC. Intense sells bikes all over the world, not just in SoCal, and supporting trails is good business wherever you are.
    Glad to hear IMBA has worked out for you. I would never say that the organization is worthless - I think it may serve some use for some. But like iRider said, there is an endless supply of organization that helps mountain bikers in one way or another. And they all have their hand out. I worked for an advocacy association for a number of years - I've been on that side. The key manufactures pulled their plug on support (we were the only organization that was fighting for rights for that industry), and really, nothing changed.

    So since you made the point that Intense sells frames around the world, should they support every trail advocacy group in the world? Where do you draw the line before someone complains?

    I've been riding mountain bikes in so cal for over 15 years, and I haven't seen any trails "saved" or even opened thanks to IMBA, but instead only by local users. And I can't recall any new trails - only those that have been shut down, and no one from IMBA has ever been anywhere around to make an attempt to stop that from happening. In this area - in my controversial opinion - trail maintenance lead by groups that act under IMBA's recommendations (or whatever terminology is correct) has done more to ruin trails than improve them (trail sanitization).

    For me - again, in my opinion - I think IMBA could go away (not that I'd want them to) and I'd never see the difference.

    By the way, iRider made some very good analogies.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    If you're a mountain bike frame building company, your number one priority is to design, build, and sell frames that customers want to buy. That's what you do. Other companies and associations take care of the other things, and supporting them is optional.
    That's an interesting way of looking at business. From my experience, an important part of any business is fostering demand. Over and over again I've seen new trails create new riders and increase demand and sales in local shops. Customers don't buy bikes when they don't have trails to ride. Look at the latest series of articles on Bicycle Retailer as they tour bike shops in SoCal- when the trails were closed due to fire last year, their sales of high-end mountain bikes dropped off significantly. Their entire business model had to change to make up for the loss of sales. Trails directly affect the bottom line of mountain bike builders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    So since you made the point that Intense sells frames around the world, should they support every trail advocacy group in the world? Where do you draw the line before someone complains?
    A good place to start is the local advocacy group that builds and maintains the trails you ride. Then the next logical choice is the international clearinghouse for mountain bike advocacy and the most effective group at trail building anywhere in the world, ie IMBA.

    Listen, you're welcome to your opinions, as am I. It's important, to some degree, for the companies I patronize to hold the same values that I do. I don't buy from or send others to bike shops that don't support our local trail building and race promotion (why send them the business when good shops that support us could get it instead?), and on a national level I like to see companies supporting vital, directly related causes that benefit all of us as riders. I like to support companies that support racing (which Intense does very well) because I'm a racer and that's important to me. I like to support companies that support trail building and advocacy, because that's important to me to. Nothing wrong with that. Intense benefits from my desire to support American companies who manufacture here- we all have values that inform our purchasing decisions.

    It's not crazy to say "hey Intense- it would be nice if you guys made a commitment to supporting trail building and advocacy." As I said before, I wouldn't stop supporting them because they're not IMBA supporters. But it would be nice if they found a way to work that into the budget, even in a smaller token way, in the future.
    Former New Yorker, now in Fort Collins
    http://www.nycmtb.com

  12. #12
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    Don't get me wrong, I think what IMBA is doing is great. I had a problem with them for a long time because they were not supporting DH/FR trails. Now they have come around on that but the gap that they left for years was filled by local groups that are really good at what they are doing and they also get the support of riders, shops and industry alike. Why jump ship now? Those groups have shown that they can do stuff without IMBA.

    And I agree with blaster, IMBA often does trail sanitization so it is save for even the biggest novice. Why?

    BTW: IMBA is not or nearly not present in many countries. Why should people abroad pay money to help US trails? Just donate money/time directly to IMBA or any other organization and leave the company alone doing what they can do best.

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