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  1. #1
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    If bikes don't "rest on 2-3 bearings" most of the time

    Then why do they become notchy?

    The intense guy explains that bearings become notchy or that the races sometimes split. Seems the only way this can happen is if the bearings are staying in the same place most of the time.

    Please explain.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem

    Please explain.

    Contamination.
    Last edited by bpnic; 12-27-2008 at 05:59 PM.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  3. #3
    Commit or eat sh!t
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    Mine became notchy because grease had leaked out. After servicing them (didn't need to replace the bearings at all), pivots became real smooth.

    Bearings are pressed fit, so there is some load on the bearings, and could wear over time.

    So service your bearings and see what happens.

  4. #4
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    Doesn't make sense so far, "notchy" implies that it's "worn in" in certain places more than others.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Doesn't make sense so far, "notchy" implies that it's "worn in" in certain places more than others.

    I skimmed that article, and came away with this....
    He used the word "notchy" to describe a bearing feeling when it's geaseless and/or contaminated.
    He did state if a bearing fails it can result in a split race.
    Greaseless/contaminated bearing do not necessarily mean failed bearing or race.
    I didn't see where he stated your quote above. But it is late here on the East Coast.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpnic
    I skimmed that article, and came away with this....
    He used the word "notchy" to describe a bearing feeling when it's geaseless and/or contaminated.
    He did state if a bearing fails it can result in a split race.
    Greaseless/contaminated bearing do not necessarily mean failed bearing or race.
    I didn't see where he stated your quote above. But it is late here on the East Coast.
    I think he is posting on multiple forums to pick fights/troll. I just read his earlier post on the DH forum:

    bearing condition - impact ride quality?

    If he is such an expert on VPP bearings as he implies in the earlier post, why pose such a question here?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Doesn't make sense so far, "notchy" implies that it's "worn in" in certain places more than others.
    actually, notchy happens if its worn in a few places, OR if there is grease with dirt/grime contamination in there (which can act like sand paper and cause accelerated wear)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    I think he is posting on multiple forums to pick fights/troll. I just read his earlier post on the DH forum:

    bearing condition - impact ride quality?

    If he is such an expert on VPP bearings as he implies in the earlier post, why pose such a question here?

    exactly.....does he not think his plastic bushings (journals) are showing wear?
    Of course they are, but only if they're being ridden. Those guys spend way too much time behind their screens to ride. Ten thousand posts? Are you fvcking kidding me?
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Pitbull
    actually, notchy happens if its worn in a few places
    if cared for, it's not as easy as it sounds.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  10. #10
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    I think Jayem's point is partially correct. bpnics reply is entirely correct. Bicycle bearings wear due to contamination. Rotating bearings such as hubs and BBs tend to wear more evenly. Bearings with a limited range of motion such as pivot bearings tend to degrade more in specific areas. Either can become notchy but contamination will ruin a pivot type bearing faster.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Doesn't make sense so far, "notchy" implies that it's "worn in" in certain places more than others.
    Notchy implies the grease has broken down, the oil component is gone and contamination has made the grease base component hard. The balls roll thru the contamination and have a notchy feeling. Clean the bearing, replace the grease....... notchy gone. I have an early 5.5 prototype frame that still has the original bearings, they simply don't wear out if you regrease once and a while.

  12. #12
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    Go on now

    ...
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpnic
    exactly.....does he not think his plastic bushings (journals) are showing wear?
    My bike has needle bearings.

    Every other part of his "bearing myths/facts" faq made sense, except where he disagreed with the force being concentrated in a limited area due to limited rotation or just spending most of the time at a certain position and wearing in that way.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    My bike has needle bearings.

    Every other part of his "bearing myths/facts" faq made sense, except where he disagreed with the force being concentrated in a limited area due to limited rotation or just spending most of the time at a certain position and wearing in that way.

    but, he didn't.
    He said 5-6 ball bearings mainly used, of course depending on the suspension cycling, with the load spread over all 8 bearings on the bike.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem

    Every other part of his "bearing myths/facts" faq made sense, except where he disagreed with the force being concentrated in a limited area due to limited rotation or just spending most of the time at a certain position and wearing in that way.
    From my post in the dh bearing thread....


    Clean and lubed bearings will last almost forever. It would be more hours of use than you or I could stand before those 5-6 (or 8, or 80)steel balls break down (or notch), let alone ceramic balls. The failure comes from contaminants and maintenance(cleaning/greasing) not being performed.

    ...... just trying to help clear up any questions. I work with bearings (nearly every type and application, including journal) in the Hydroelectric industry. Sizes typically range from 1/2" i.d. to 48" i.d.
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  16. #16
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    what i posted on the other forum by mistake.....

    My take on this is somewhat a bit of what everyone is saying. Sure contaminants will kill almost every bearing. But I also agree that only a few balls are actually taking the load of the bike, hence the use of a full compliment enduro bearings to maximize the surfaces taking the load. The use of bushings will probably offer the most load bearing capacity but supposedly it affects the suspension.

    I'm not fully convinced that if you clean and re-grease your the bearings on an Intense often that it will never need replacing. It'll last longer because you've reduced one of the factors contributing to its wear. You still have all the forces going on all directions being aplied to the balls and races and I'm sure that's doing something to wear the bearing. Then there's also the fact that Enduro isn't actually a "real" bearing company. All they manufacture are for the use of bikes and skateboards.... not industrial use. I would say that the steel, the grease and even the manufacturing tolerances they are using are substandard to the ones NSK uses. In addition, having fairly small bearings (smaller contact surfaces to spread the load) mounted on the VPP doesn't help it last longer too. It's a bit of everything.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by peachy-B
    what i posted on the other forum by mistake.....

    My take on this is somewhat a bit of what everyone is saying. Sure contaminants will kill almost every bearing. But I also agree that only a few balls are actually taking the load of the bike, hence the use of a full compliment enduro bearings to maximize the surfaces taking the load. The use of bushings will probably offer the most load bearing capacity but supposedly it affects the suspension.

    I'm not fully convinced that if you clean and re-grease your the bearings on an Intense often that it will never need replacing. It'll last longer because you've reduced one of the factors contributing to its wear. You still have all the forces going on all directions being aplied to the balls and races and I'm sure that's doing something to wear the bearing. Then there's also the fact that Enduro isn't actually a "real" bearing company. All they manufacture are for the use of bikes and skateboards.... not industrial use. I would say that the steel, the grease and even the manufacturing tolerances they are using are substandard to the ones NSK uses. In addition, having fairly small bearings (smaller contact surfaces to spread the load) mounted on the VPP doesn't help it last longer too. It's a bit of everything.
    Thank you Peachy.

    My original argument to J:
    Not 80-90%, but closer to 60-70%. And if maintained properly, would last, not forever, but long enough to not justify arguing over. Most people forget their bearing are there, and the deterioration process is accelerated. This is true for all bearings, not just Vpp bikes (Most people just are too busy to flush and lube Vpp bearings more than regularly, which they need because of location).
    Assuming the bearings are spec'ed and installed right, they should handle the leverage and weight loads without problem for long enough to satisfy the owner.
    I'd hit it, but I bruise like a peach.

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