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  1. #1
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    compared to turner or santa cruz?

    my santa cruz superlite is 8 yrs old, and Im trying to begin the inevitable decision.
    you guys must have compared turner or the s.c. blur - what made you buy your intense?

    thanks in advance!
    btw I ride mostly in so cal (sunland) a lot of climbing, and I do enjoy the downhill.

    notley1

  2. #2
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    yup same question exactly

  3. #3
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    The geometry! Whatever category of bike you look at, Intense's geo is (was?) always quicker and more precise steering than other manufacturers. With the newer bikes (M6 or SS) they seem to go in a different direction though.

  4. #4
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    I've been on and off Turners and Intenses for the last 5 years or so. Both companies do great work, but I generally prefer the geometries of Intense over Turner. I'm also a fan of the VPP linkage and think that Intenses execution of the design is stiffer than the Santa Cruz and offers greater longevity of pivots.

    We'll see, though. I've been on a Turner 5 Spot for quite a while and I've got my new Tracer VP sitting 1/2 built at the shop. The Spot has been a great bike and will be hard to top. I can't wait to throw a leg over the Tracer to see how it matches up.
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  5. #5
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    dude!

    quite a stable you have there! you have a wealth of knowledge - feel free to make more comparisons or opinon.- here's a question- I do alot of climbing, how do they compare from that angle?

  6. #6
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    Frame diffrences.

    You should read the new mountain bike. It gives the differences between the Blur and the Tracer. For me I switched from the Blur to the Tracer mostly because of the geometry just like everybody else. Turner is a great bike and company also, but for me there just to heavy feeling when I'm climbing. Going down hill is where the spot shines. The Tracer climbs better then the Blur and down hills just as good as the spot. This is just my opinion but I have owned all three and know them all pretty well. Plus Intense is handmade in the Intense factory in the good old USA, and Turner is made in the USA also.

  7. #7
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    Hi, the new 'mountain bike.' Is that an American mag? do you mean MBA?

  8. #8
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    Turner has just stolen away the DW link technology from Ironhorse (okay, stolen is a bit harsh but they bought the rights after the agreement ran out at IH). Make no mistake, their '09 lineup will be the ones to beat (and drop most of the "fat" Turners are known for). I've ridden plenty of VPP designs including Blurs (have 2 in the garage still) and certainly like the design. IMHO they climb the best out of all the different FS types but are "average" on downhills because VPP designs do poorly over braking bumps. The longer travel bikes won't notice that as much (like with my M3) but a trail bike will. The Turner 5 spot will kill a 5.5 next year IMHO. But again, if climbing is high on your list then stick with a steep head angle VPP like the 5.5; it's still no slouch descending. I just didn't realize how much better a DW link bike was until I bought my IH 6.8.

    Hope that helps,

    G MAN

    PS - And I'm not a big Turner fan as I think they're ridiculously priced but they just pulled into the lead if you ask me. I'll bet Intense is watching that move carefully when planning their next gen suspension designs. Anyone know how long their licensing agreement is for the VPP Technology? It's time to bail that boat!
    Last edited by Gman086; 11-05-2008 at 06:54 PM.
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  9. #9
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    i rode a 5.5, and loved it. i bought a blur because the frame was half the price, but its one of those things where i settled, and i think about that 5.5 a lot... but the new blt2 is no doubt sick as hell, and so is the tracer. btw, i dig the geo on the 5.5 amazing feeling bike, climbs phenomally, and felt like it actually fit me, being that im inbetween everyone elses L & XL...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Turner has just stolen away the DW link technology from Ironhorse (okay, stolen is a bit harsh but they bought the rights after the agreement ran out at IH). Make no mistake, their '09 lineup will be the ones to beat (and drop most of the "fat" Turners are known for). I've ridden plenty of VPP designs including Blurs (have 2 in the garage still) and certainly like the design. IMHO they climb the best out of all the different FS types but are "average" on downhills because VPP designs do poorly over braking bumps. The longer travel bikes won't notice that as much (like with my M3) but a trail bike will. The Turner 5 spot will kill a 5.5 next year IMHO. But again, if climbing is high on your list then stick with a steep head angle VPP like the 5.5; it's still no slouch descending. I just didn't realize how much better a DW link bike was until I bought my IH 6.8.

    Hope that helps,

    G MAN

    PS - And I'm not a big Turner fan as I think they're ridiculously priced but they just pulled into the lead if you ask me. I'll bet Intense is watching that move carefully when planning their next gen suspension designs. Anyone know how long their licensing agreement is for the VPP Technology? It's time to bail that boat!
    G Man you are behind the times and comparing the old VPP the new generation VPP as on the new LT2 , Nomad, Tracer vp & Uzzi vp is just as great on the climbing and is heaps better on the DH.
    The Tracer vp has replaced the 5.5

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr intense
    G Man you are behind the times and comparing the old VPP the new generation VPP as on the new LT2 , Nomad, Tracer vp & Uzzi vp is just as great on the climbing and is heaps better on the DH.
    The Tracer vp has replaced the 5.5
    I won't dispute that as I have not ridden a new gen VPP. I guess I'm just a lil' skeptical but definitely will keep an open mind. I've always loved your bikes. I'm in Temecula now thru Friday. Any chance I can demo a new gen tomorrow in the afternoon?

    Best Regards,

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    I won't dispute that as I have not ridden a new gen VPP. I guess I'm just a lil' skeptical but definitely will keep an open mind. I've always loved your bikes. I'm in Temecula now thru Friday. Any chance I can demo a new gen tomorrow in the afternoon?

    Best Regards,

    G
    Give Andrew or Chad a call tomorrow & I am sure a demo can be arranged.
    I know that the Demo fleet is in as the boys have a big demo weekend up in the bay area with Trailhead .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Turner has just stolen away the DW link technology from Ironhorse (okay, stolen is a bit harsh but they bought the rights after the agreement ran out at IH). Make no mistake, their '09 lineup will be the ones to beat (and drop most of the "fat" Turners are known for).
    IH losing the license has nothing to do with Turner licensing the DW. Mere coincidence. If so, you could say that about Pivot as well.

    The Turners are the same weight if not heavier. The '09 RFX which was "released" for a brief time but then taken back to the drawing board was heavier than the previous versions. The Spot was 6.8 lbs last year....it's 6.7 lbs this year...negligible difference.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by C & D's Dad
    You should read the new mountain bike. It gives the differences between the Blur and the Tracer.
    C & D's Dad
    I read that article and I believe they described the Tracer's suspension as "firm like a great XC bike" and described the Blur LT2 as "all mountain plush". Since you have ridden both could you give more information on the difference in feeling between the two. The Tracer and Blur are both on my short list but I prefer my bikes more towards the plush side.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTV8
    C & D's Dad
    I read that article and I believe they described the Tracer's suspension as "firm like a great XC bike" and described the Blur LT2 as "all mountain plush". Since you have ridden both could you give more information on the difference in feeling between the two. The Tracer and Blur are both on my short list but I prefer my bikes more towards the plush side.
    I beleive this to be true in the 5.5"setting in the 6' setting it will feel closer to the LT2 with a touch more travel or the 6.6, there really is a big dif between the two settings.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Turner has just stolen away the DW link technology from Ironhorse (okay, stolen is a bit harsh but they bought the rights after the agreement ran out at IH). Make no mistake, their '09 lineup will be the ones to beat (and drop most of the "fat" Turners are known for). I've ridden plenty of VPP designs including Blurs (have 2 in the garage still) and certainly like the design. IMHO they climb the best out of all the different FS types but are "average" on downhills because VPP designs do poorly over braking bumps. The longer travel bikes won't notice that as much (like with my M3) but a trail bike will. The Turner 5 spot will kill a 5.5 next year IMHO. But again, if climbing is high on your list then stick with a steep head angle VPP like the 5.5; it's still no slouch descending. I just didn't realize how much better a DW link bike was until I bought my IH 6.8.

    Hope that helps,

    G MAN

    PS - And I'm not a big Turner fan as I think they're ridiculously priced but they just pulled into the lead if you ask me. I'll bet Intense is watching that move carefully when planning their next gen suspension designs. Anyone know how long their licensing agreement is for the VPP Technology? It's time to bail that boat!
    That's a pretty misinformed statement stole dwl away from Iron Horse, unless you know something from the inside, DT has been apparently working with DW for sometime long before the IH situation, DWL was already licensed to Ibis and Pivot before Turner and each DWL license agreement is different, DWL in my opinion has been very smart in the way he approaches his licensing with his technology! my understanding of it is that the bike company has the full design aspect from start to finish's and DW works with them to implement the best characteristics of the dwl technology into their design, but the rest is purely the bike company's, which is why there will be a difference between how an IH rides to IBIS to Pivot and Turner!

    However I agree with the rest the 5Spot is probably going to be the bike of 09 without doubt it will be a hard bike to match in its category and I can say that as I have a 5Spot and RFX currently, as to over weight, the bike frames are not. Turners quality is not solely on build machining and cnc works, its there reliability and ride characteristics of bushing vs bearings that make them different, better for some and that may not be the case for others, but its an affect for sure and still unique something incorporated into the new DWL on Turners which is something no other DWL brand has, even of a slight weight difference to others of similar travel this is very misleading!

    I'm not here to promote Turners I'm just passing on the facts as a Turner owner, make up your own mind, Intense owners are just as passionate and good on them, they should be its allot of money to invest in bikes and that shows when you put your money down on one!

    As to the RFX, its original design brief was to be more like previous RFX's hardcore AM and light Freeride capable, not a Highline replacement since ts being left out of the line up for 09, this has been revised because DT listened to his customers needs, a pity imo I would have liked to have seen that frame, but the 07,08s were such a hit GEO & weight wise the DWL version of those models will no doubt be even more killa, and nail it!

    People focus far too much on weight when build specc has more impact on a bike than frame weight for its intended purpose!

    I wouldn't be rushing in too quick for 09 sitting back and seeing things develop is gonna be a good call imo, unless ya looking at bikes that have had minor improvements and modifications!

    As someone else said GEO first of all is my main criteria and in some brands this can be improved or altered either with specc or adjustable geometry e.g from!, Knolly, Nicolai, Canfeild to name a few others for this list, then choosing! its getting tough, price is going to be very similar with allot of these new models, it will be interesting to see how thing's go over the next few years!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    That's a pretty misinformed statement stole dwl away from Iron Horse, unless you know something from the inside, DT has been apparently working with DW for sometime long before the IH situation, DWL was already licensed to Ibis and Pivot before Turner and each DWL license agreement is different, DWL in my opinion has been very smart in the way he approaches his licensing with his technology! my understanding of it is that the bike company has the full design aspect from start to finish's and DW works with them to implement the best characteristics of the dwl technology into their design, but the rest is purely the bike company's, which is why there will be a difference between how an IH rides to IBIS to Pivot and Turner!

    However I agree with the rest the 5Spot is probably going to be the bike of 09 without doubt it will be a hard bike to match in its category and I can say that as I have a 5Spot and RFX currently, as to over weight, the bike frames are not. Turners quality is not solely on build machining and cnc works, its there reliability and ride characteristics of bushing vs bearings that make them different, better for some and that may not be the case for others, but its an affect for sure and still unique something incorporated into the new DWL on Turners which is something no other DWL brand has, even of a slight weight difference to others of similar travel this is very misleading!

    I'm not here to promote Turners I'm just passing on the facts as a Turner owner, make up your own mind, Intense owners are just as passionate and good on them, they should be its allot of money to invest in bikes and that shows when you put your money down on one!

    As to the RFX, its original design brief was to be more like previous RFX's hardcore AM and light Freeride capable, not a Highline replacement since ts being left out of the line up for 09, this has been revised because DT listened to his customers needs, a pity imo I would have liked to have seen that frame, but the 07,08s were such a hit GEO & weight wise the DWL version of those models will no doubt be even more killa, and nail it!

    People focus far too much on weight when build specc has more impact on a bike than frame weight for its intended purpose!

    I wouldn't be rushing in too quick for 09 sitting back and seeing things develop is gonna be a good call imo, unless ya looking at bikes that have had minor improvements and modifications!

    As someone else said GEO first of all is my main criteria and in some brands this can be improved or altered either with specc or adjustable geometry e.g from!, Knolly, Nicolai, Canfeild to name a few others for this list, then choosing! its getting tough, price is going to be very similar with allot of these new models, it will be interesting to see how thing's go over the next few years!
    Thats a lot of words , on the price thing as I am looking for a new rig, the new Turner seems to be about $200 more than the Intense & the Intense about $200 more than the LT2. I would think that the plastic bushings would be a bargin in compairison to sealed bearings but again I would guess the extra cost on the Spot over previous TNT models would be the extra complexity and the DW licencing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr intense
    I beleive this to be true in the 5.5"setting in the 6' setting it will feel closer to the LT2 with a touch more travel or the 6.6, there really is a big dif between the two settings.
    Sounds good...plus I happen to have both a Roco and DHX coil in the correct size that I can experiment with. I would imagine this would add a bit more plushness also.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr intense
    I beleive this to be true in the 5.5"setting in the 6' setting it will feel closer to the LT2 with a touch more travel or the 6.6, there really is a big dif between the two settings.
    Mr. Intense, about your mention on both settings, what would be the best rear travel position running a 150 15QR TALAS front? And what are the numbers for the main angles (HT, ST, BB) on both 5.5 and 6-inch spots? Got the release geometry chart back then, but there are only numbers for 140mm forks on 5.5-inches rear and 160mm forks on 6-inches rear. Thanks.

  20. #20
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    got em' both

    Quote Originally Posted by notley1
    my santa cruz superlite is 8 yrs old, and Im trying to begin the inevitable decision.
    you guys must have compared turner or the s.c. blur - what made you buy your intense?

    thanks in advance!
    btw I ride mostly in so cal (sunland) a lot of climbing, and I do enjoy the downhill.

    notley1

    Hey notley,

    I've had a Turner RFX for almost 3 years and an Uzzi for about a year. I can say the Turner bushing system in the pivots just plain works. A dollop of grease 1-2 times a year & smooth, silent pivots. And I ride year round in the PNW, USA.
    My Uzzi has been thru just about a full season now, and has some creaks developing. I only wash by hand (no powerwasher or direct spray w/ hose). I only ride it maybe 2-3 times a month & don't go very big on it; its still a bike I'm growing into skill-wise.

    The most noticeable diff (other than the obvious susp design & geo) is the stiffness of the rear ends. Turner is like a solid block of metal; no flex. When I first built up the Uzzi, I was sure there was a crack in the rear triangle, or bearings loose. Nope, just inherent flex of the design. I found plenty of stories on these boards about it, and from other intense owners I know. Does it affect riding? Well, I can feel the flex in some situations on the Uzzi, but I do really like the bike. Confidence inspiring on the jumps & fast d/h.
    That being said, would I buy it again? Hard to say. I got a great deal, so prolly so. Would I pay retail for it knowing then what I know now? I'd pass. I am anxious to see and ride the new uzzi (reportedly stiffer AND lighter). Would I buy the RFX again? without a doubt.

    Cheers!
    John
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  21. #21
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    When you are talking about the likes of Santa Cruz, Turner and Intense, it will be more about the rider than the bike as they are all good steeds. You cannot make a wrong decision here.

    When choosing between bikes in the same class from high end manufacturers like these, get the one that speaks to you most if you know what I mean. The more you want to ride it, the better the bike is for you. For me, there is something intangible about Intense that makes me want to ride it. Turner or Ventana would be my second choice if Intense wasn't around. Just go with the gut.

  22. #22
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    intense

    my intense spider is about 6 months old and i am extremely happy with it. it offers good control and is light enough to make climbing less of a chore.

    since i am an old guy, i dont do downhill or too much single track as i have an adversion to crashing.

    i had narrow the choices to santa cruz, yeti or intense, .

    in my opinion, with these high end bikes, it boils down to what do you like and does it suit your riding style.

    demo the bike and make sure that you like it.

    zaskar1

    zaskar 1

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTV8
    C & D's Dad
    I read that article and I believe they described the Tracer's suspension as "firm like a great XC bike" and described the Blur LT2 as "all mountain plush". Since you have ridden both could you give more information on the difference in feeling between the two. The Tracer and Blur are both on my short list but I prefer my bikes more towards the plush side.
    That is what I love about the new Tracer, in the 5.5 travel mode the suspension is firm like I like it. If I'm going to be riding all day I like a bike with a solid pedaling platform. But the other thing that is great is that when I know I'm going to be doing a a lot of DH. I drop it in the 6" mode and blast. The Blur is very plush which is good for some but for me, I like having the option of a firm pedaling platform in 5.5 and plush all mountain in 6. It's the best of both worlds. I think a more appropriate name for the Tracer should be the chameleon. Because it can change itself to match the terrain.

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