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  1. #1
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    Chain Guide for SS - What about............

    HI all,

    I'm riding an '08 Intense SS and as yet have not fitted a chain guide, as i'm running a double ring set-up and have been wavering about the DRS, and have not been able to find much out about suitable products.

    I came across the Wicked Racin' Dualrailleur last week, and have sourced one direct, with a guaranteed refund if any fitting issues.



    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...ur-guide-30973

    It seems to be the perfect product for me, and is fairly discrete / inoffensive looking.

    Does anyone have any experience, or have heard from anyone with experience?

    Any other advice for a chain guide on the SS, especially the E.13 DRS?

    Huge thanks.
    Its All Downhill From Here....!

  2. #2
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    I am using DRS (bottom bracket style) which I already had from a different bike. The backplate moved a little after a hit. I also grinded a little to make it fit better. Otherwise no problems. e13 also has some new stuff coming out in 1Q.

    You might also look into the Truvativ Hammerschimidt. Looks like the a great product, perfect for a low BB bike, once SRAM figures out all the kinks.

    I believe the owner of Wicked Racin died a few months ago racing. Not sure if the company is still functioning. Maybe someone else is running it.

    Make sure you take off the shock and do a test for chain length. Lot of chain growth. Messed up my derailleur because I didn't check.

  3. #3
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    I am running a DRS on my SS & have had no issues at all. It is not the lightest by any means but I have yet to drop a chain. FYI that I read in a recent Dave Weagle interview that the Drs is going through a major redo & will be out soon. I did have to use a spacer to clear the pivot bolts to get it on properly. I have also seen peeps rocking blackspire stingers on the SS as well.

    Dre

  4. #4
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    I found that Wicked guide while searching also. I haven't bought anything yet. Be sure to post your impressions after you get some ride time on it. Also, do you plan on running it with or without a bashguard?

  5. #5
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    Yeah, sadly Mark Reynolds passed away last year, but his family are still running the mail order bit.
    Can't afford the Hammerschmidt, otherwise its a pretty attractive solution.
    The stinger is defo an option, not heard from anyone using one though?

    Be interested to see what E13 do with the DRS too.....!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    The stinger is defo an option, not heard from anyone using one though?
    Blackspire Stinger with dual ring ? Yeah, it seems cool to me so far.
    White/blue Intense Slopestyle
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  7. #7
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    Stinger is the way to go. I've not heard of anything technically wrong with the Wicked Racing setup other than being a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. A properly adjusted Stinger, Chain, and FD will retain the chain with no issues. Whistler included.

    FYI, the new DRS that has been mentioned is functionally a fancy Stinger (not that that's a bad thing)->

  8. #8
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    Cheers guys, think the stinger may be the way to go then, at least its pretty damn cheap, so not much to lose!

    Any preference as to fitment - ISCG or BB? - Think my SS would be the older ISCG mounts no? (It's an '08 from back in may).

    huge thanks.
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  9. #9
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    Is this the E.13 thing you are thinking of....
    http://www.e13components.com/product_ds.html
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  10. #10
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    Yep, I think the pic of the one I posted above is an earlier version of the new DRS.

    The first version of the SS were ISCG-03 (old ISCG) and were distinguished by spot welds holding on the ISCG tabs. The newer version of the SS uses ISCG-05 and are distinguished by the tabs being welded on in a continuous bead around the circumference of the BB. Of course the tabs themselves are in their respective orientation.

    ISCG version of the Stinger works fine as does the BB mount. I've used both on my SS. The BB mount version lines up easy and can not result in broken ISCG tabs which is kinda nice. I had the ISCG-03 Stinger on my first SS and when I updated to a later SS, switched to BB mount Stinger since I couldn't get my hands on an ISCG-05 Stinger. Both have worked flawlessly.

  11. #11
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    Hey guys,
    The DSS is the steel backplate version of the DRS. Everything is functionally the same, except the steel plate is easier to produce, and therefore the final product can save you money while still delivering top notch performance that is expected from an e*thirteen product.

    Also, most of the SS's out there use ISCG-OLD tabs, so you would need the BB mount version pictured above. The 2009's have ISCG-05 tabs, along with the M3, Socom and I think the 4x hardtail as well. I have a picture of it below.

    Now, with all that money you just saved, I estimate at least 4 weeks of post-ride beers... (sodas for you groms out there)

    ...I can't confirm or deny the existance of the 2009 aluminum DRS either. It certainly doesn't look strikingly similar feature-wise to our 2009 LG1+ and SRS+...

    http://www.sicklines.com/interbike2008/ethirteen/
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
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    Yeah my SS is ISCG-old, so i'll be going BB mount.

    I'm pretty happy with the Hone Bashguard, so the DS would be fine (I'm assuming the difference is that the DSS has a bashguard and the DS doesn't?).

    IS the only difference between the DSS and the DRS the back plate material?

    Would the DS work with any bashguard / my hone one?

    Huge thanks.
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  13. #13
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    PS. LOVE that white / gold / clear colour combo on that new E.13 stuff, if they do the DRS / DSS / DS in that colour, i'm sold!!!
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  14. #14
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    Hey Orange,
    Just following up...but yes, the only difference is the backplate. For the installation, the DS BB-mount uses three 1mm and one 0.5mm bottom bracket spacer, so you can fine tune where the backplate sits on the BB shell (more or less with a 73mm shell). As long as you are sure to get the installation dialled, most bashguards should work.

    If anyone has any technical questions, always feel free to shoot me an email!

    Cheers,
    philip

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by philw86
    Hey Orange,
    Just following up...but yes, the only difference is the backplate. For the installation, the DS BB-mount uses three 1mm and one 0.5mm bottom bracket spacer, so you can fine tune where the backplate sits on the BB shell (more or less with a 73mm shell). As long as you are sure to get the installation dialled, most bashguards should work.

    If anyone has any technical questions, always feel free to shoot me an email!

    Cheers,
    philip

    What is the DS going to sell for and when will it be available?

  16. #16
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    Huge thanks for the feedback.
    I think i'll get a stinger, and maybe if/when the DS is released i think i'll look into that , however if someone was to maybe let it slip that the DRS is about to updated to be inline with the new about-to-be-released SRS & LG1.......

    ......I reckon i'd be swayed and snap one up right away, the main thing steering me away from the DRS is is i don't like the bashguard, so figure ii'd stick with the hone one and just get the tensioner/jockey section. Hence the interest in the DS and the Stinger.

    But i love the new look, white, gold and clear. Awesome stuff. So Phil....any word?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    Huge thanks for the feedback.
    I think i'll get a stinger, and maybe if/when the DS is released i think i'll look into that
    I started with the DRS on my SS, then tried out the Blackspire Stinger (that's what you're referring too, right?) for lighter weight, and the Stinger doesn't work nearly as well retaining the chain in the rough stuff. I've since gone back to the DRS. The DRS performs so much better. Unfortunately, I have the ISCG old mount version, and it requires a lot of grinding to make it work, but it's worth it.

  18. #18
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    Hmmmm, now i'm torn. I can't locate a DS anywhere (SW England), and don't like the look of the DRS at the moment, so i guess i'll just hang on for the minute.......
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  19. #19
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    I have a newer SS with the ISCG like in the picture above. I want to use an MRP System 3 I had from another bike but it doesn't have the ISCG holes on the boomerang. It was mounted behind the bottom bracket cup (the boomerang is recessed to fit-in). Is there anything wrong with using this setup?
    Thanks
    52 gear inches

  20. #20
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    HI Stephen,

    I have settled on the MRP G2, as i have decided to go single ring now, but i have the older ISCG, but tried it in the shop and it all lined up nicely. Not sure about the System 3, though i can't see why it'd be any different.

    It sounds like you have the BB mount version, which mean that it mounts behind the BB Cups as you mention, there might be a small collar to attach to the seat tube to fix the position of the boomerang. I can't see any problems there, only issue might be interference of the Boomerang with the Vpp lower link, but it seemed fine on my SS with the G2. Let us know how it sets up!
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  21. #21
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    I just looked at the MRP and the SS frame and I think that lower link might be an issue. Yes it is an MRP that goes behind the bottom bracket cup. I'll try and post a pic later.
    Thanks for the reply
    52 gear inches

  22. #22
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    Here are some pics Orange Goblin


    It seems like it would work if I put spacers between the MRP and the frame. Not sure if thats compatible with the BB though?
    52 gear inches

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen11364
    It seems like it would work if I put spacers between the MRP and the frame. Not sure if thats compatible with the BB though?
    It will fit, but you will be left with VERY little thread engagement on you BB cup. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Find yourself a guide that mounts to the ISCG tabs. That's what they are there for. With the new e13 stuff coming out, there are lots of deals on the old stuff.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown
    It will fit, but you will be left with VERY little thread engagement on you BB cup. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Find yourself a guide that mounts to the ISCG tabs. That's what they are there for. With the new e13 stuff coming out, there are lots of deals on the old stuff.
    I don't know the MRP guide, but the E13 DRS that I have is a bottom bracket mount (and oddly ISCG old mounts). The plate is 2.5 mm wide, so I simply substitute the one 2.5 mm spacer with the plate. Remember, most cups are designed to run with up to 5 mm of spacers.

  25. #25
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    Hi guys,

    Stephen, those photos confirm what i thought, and Blaster is right, it takes place of one of the spacers, the MRP will take place of the outer spacer so it clears the VPP link sufficiently!

    Build your own, you can't change the thread engagement of your BB, otherwise the cranks arms and axle won't be fully seated, and result in a seriously flawed connection down there. You merely swap out one of the spacers.

    My Shimano Hone BB has 2 x 2.5mm spacers for this very reason, otherwise the entire idea of the BB mount Chain Guide would be ridiculous.

    I'll update when my MRP comes in.
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  26. #26
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    So let me see if I understand. I put a 2.5mm spacer and then the MRP behind the bb cup on the drive-side. How many on the non-drive side. I remember having info about this in the Hone instruction sheet.
    Thanks all!
    52 gear inches

  27. #27
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    yup, the spacer goes next to the BB/frame and MRP will be sat outside of that to sit furthest from the frame!

    There should be 1 x 2.5mm spacer on the non-drive side i think. I'll be checking my Hone Instructions when it comes to the install, they are available on the Shimano Website.
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  28. #28
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    Thanks. I just looked at the website and it says 2 on drive-side and 1 on non-drive side.
    Thanks for your replies,
    Stephen
    52 gear inches

  29. #29
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    Yeah, cool. Just remember the boomerang REPLACES the outer spacer.

    Just be sure to check the boomerang is also 2.5mm, if not they'll be spacers in there to make up any differences, for instance E.13 put in a few 1mm and 0.5mm spacers with the DRS / SRS etc.

    Good luck and let us know how the fitting goes.

    CHeers.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    I don't know the MRP guide, but the E13 DRS that I have is a bottom bracket mount (and oddly ISCG old mounts). The plate is 2.5 mm wide, so I simply substitute the one 2.5 mm spacer with the plate. Remember, most cups are designed to run with up to 5 mm of spacers.
    Unless your guide is REALLY old (ie, before external cups) your guide can't be both. It's either one or the other. And yes, You can run some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell, but with a 73, you are limited to about 1mm. On a Shimano BB specifically, the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.
    Backplates are cheap.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown
    Unless your guide is REALLY old (ie, before external cups) your guide can't be both. It's either one or the other. And yes, You can run some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell, but with a 73, you are limited to about 1mm. On a Shimano BB specifically, the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.
    Backplates are cheap.
    How does ISCG differ from a bottom bracket mounted system? I know the ISCG have those extra holes but what are the main differences in how they work / attach?
    52 gear inches

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown
    Unless your guide is REALLY old (ie, before external cups) your guide can't be both. It's either one or the other. And yes, You can run some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell, but with a 73, you are limited to about 1mm. On a Shimano BB specifically, the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.
    Backplates are cheap.

    Firstly to you 'Buildyourown', with all due respect, pretty much everything you said here is wrong:

    'Some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell'
    - WHAT? its 3 x 2.5mm on a shimano BB.

    'the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.'
    ...!? If your Shimano Crank is properly installed, and the cranks are firmly fixed at the right distance, then you already ARE 'giving up 2.5mm of it' to the spacer thats there. If you are running no spacer, and no boomerang/derailluer in its place, then the BB cups are going TOO DEEP and so the faces of the BB are too close togther and the crank axle will be moving from side to side.

    A 73mm is 5mm larger and so has 5mm less spacers, not 'about 1mm', please don't guess at stuff if you don't know.

    Hi Stephen', i'll try and explain:

    Firstly, I was wrong, and the SS is a 73mm BB shell, but the principle remains.

    On a 73mm BB such as the SS, the Shimano Hone Cranks are installed as standard with 1 x 2.5mm spacer on the drive-side. (There is only one as the BB shell is 5mm wider than the 68mm)

    So when you add the BB-mount boomerang, you are just replacing the spacer and not changing the depth of thread contact at all, exactly as if you are using a bracket-type derailleur. You are left with no spacers at all and the same thread contact depth as before, no change. 'Buildyourown' has this totally wrong i'm afraid.

    ISCG mount guides have their boomerang attach to the mount tabs alone, and do not interfere with the BB cups, they just have a hole for the crank to pass through.

    BB mount Guides have been used flawlessly many thousands of times, and if properly installed are as good as ISCG although not as convenient. The BB interface is stronger than the ISCG mounts often times, although new frames are getting better. Trouble is, if you really slam hard and something breaks, if you are using BB mount, it'll just be a £60 BB maybe a new crank arm, if you are using a ISCG mount and break those, thats your rather more expensive frame buggered, which is very expensive to properly fix.

    Hope this helps explain it Stephen.

    J
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown
    Unless your guide is REALLY old (ie, before external cups) your guide can't be both. It's either one or the other. And yes, You can run some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell, but with a 73, you are limited to about 1mm. On a Shimano BB specifically, the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.
    Backplates are cheap.
    After seeing the photos of your frame building on your blog, I have to say that you are an excellent craftsman. However, I think you may not be familiar with proper installation of Shimano bottom brackets - Orange-Goblin has covered this, so I don't need to explain any more.

    In regards to my back plate, I think I know when I see a hole that is the same size as the BB. I also know that when I remove the ISCG bolts that I need to remove the BB cup in order to remove the plate. I know what I'm looking at. And since you imply that it may otherwise be old and I should replace it, I ask why? The one I have works. And other than the minor inconvenience I had when I removed and replaced it while briefly trying out the Blackspire Stinger, I have no issues with it. However, having said that, I'm looking forward to the 2009 E13 stuff.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    Firstly to you 'Buildyourown', with all due respect, pretty much everything you said here is wrong:

    'Some spacers on your BB with a 68mm shell'
    - WHAT? its 3 x 2.5mm on a shimano BB.

    'the thread engagement isn't enough that I'm willing to give up 2.5mm of it to a chainguide.'
    ...!? If your Shimano Crank is properly installed, and the cranks are firmly fixed at the right distance, then you already ARE 'giving up 2.5mm of it' to the spacer thats there. If you are running no spacer, and no boomerang/derailluer in its place, then the BB cups are going TOO DEEP and so the faces of the BB are too close togther and the crank axle will be moving from side to side.

    A 73mm is 5mm larger and so has 5mm less spacers, not 'about 1mm', please don't guess at stuff if you don't know.

    Hi Stephen', i'll try and explain:

    Firstly, I was wrong, and the SS is a 73mm BB shell, but the principle remains.

    On a 73mm BB such as the SS, the Shimano Hone Cranks are installed as standard with 1 x 2.5mm spacer on the drive-side. (There is only one as the BB shell is 5mm wider than the 68mm)

    So when you add the BB-mount boomerang, you are just replacing the spacer and not changing the depth of thread contact at all, exactly as if you are using a bracket-type derailleur. You are left with no spacers at all and the same thread contact depth as before, no change. 'Buildyourown' has this totally wrong i'm afraid.

    ISCG mount guides have their boomerang attach to the mount tabs alone, and do not interfere with the BB cups, they just have a hole for the crank to pass through.

    BB mount Guides have been used flawlessly many thousands of times, and if properly installed are as good as ISCG although not as convenient. The BB interface is stronger than the ISCG mounts often times, although new frames are getting better. Trouble is, if you really slam hard and something breaks, if you are using BB mount, it'll just be a £60 BB maybe a new crank arm, if you are using a ISCG mount and break those, thats your rather more expensive frame buggered, which is very expensive to properly fix.

    Hope this helps explain it Stephen.

    J
    So I will not be able to use the bb mount boomerang because it will interfere with that linkage in the pic I posted. I need to get a boomerang that is ISCG correct? But can you tell which ISCG I have from my pic? I think I can just buy a new boomerang and don't have to replace the whole thing. Also if I read you correctly the ISCG boomerang actually fits over the BB cup and mounts to those three holes - not sandwiched between the bb and the frame.
    Thanks for all your help,
    Stephen
    52 gear inches

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen11364
    So I will not be able to use the bb mount boomerang because it will interfere with that linkage in the pic I posted. I need to get a boomerang that is ISCG correct? But can you tell which ISCG I have from my pic? I think I can just buy a new boomerang and don't have to replace the whole thing. Also if I read you correctly the ISCG boomerang actually fits over the BB cup and mounts to those three holes - not sandwiched between the bb and the frame.
    Thanks for all your help,
    Stephen
    Hmm it may well do, you can only really see once you've tried it really, there defintaely might be some interference, alot of people grind their backplates to make it work, but again, you'll only know once you 'offer it up' as if you were installing it.

    I'm 99% sure thats ISCG '05, the newer standard. So you don't need to use the BB mount specifically, the ISCG mounts may give a little more flexibility in how you can mount it.

    Just getting a new boomerang will solve this.

    And finally, yes, the ISCG mount version just goes over the BB cups, and attaches at the ISCG tabs, with the correct fixing bolts. You do not have to remove the BB cups to install.
    As i mentioned i am not that familiar with the system 3 MRP, so can't be exact, but the MRP G2 seems to line up nicely on my SS, but as always we'll see when it arrives!!
    Lucky my shop is great with sending stuff back!

    Good luck Stephen.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    Hmm it may well do, you can only really see once you've tried it really, there defintaely might be some interference, alot of people grind their backplates to make it work, but again, you'll only know once you 'offer it up' as if you were installing it.

    I'm 99% sure thats ISCG '05, the newer standard. So you don't need to use the BB mount specifically, the ISCG mounts may give a little more flexibility in how you can mount it.

    Just getting a new boomerang will solve this.

    And finally, yes, the ISCG mount version just goes over the BB cups, and attaches at the ISCG tabs, with the correct fixing bolts. You do not have to remove the BB cups to install.
    As i mentioned i am not that familiar with the system 3 MRP, so can't be exact, but the MRP G2 seems to line up nicely on my SS, but as always we'll see when it arrives!!
    Lucky my shop is great with sending stuff back!

    Good luck Stephen.
    Thanks a lot for all your quick and informative responses Orange-Goblin
    Stephen
    52 gear inches

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    I'm 99% sure thats ISCG '05, the newer standard. So you don't need to use the BB mount specifically, the ISCG mounts may give a little more flexibility in how you can mount it.
    You can take that up to 100%. After removing and installing the cranks on my SlopeStyle (ISCG old) last week and installing the cranks on my fiance's SlopeStyle (ISCG 05) last night, I can assure you that the ISCG mount on stephan's frame is ISCG 05.

    Stephan, note that it's not uncommon to have to grind chainguide back plates in order to clear various suspension components. I think on all the E13 guides I've installed on to Intense frames lately, I've had to notch out an area for the circlip that's around the upper link pin. It looks like you may need to do the same. Doing this modification is much better than trying to use spacers.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    You can take that up to 100%. After removing and installing the cranks on my SlopeStyle (ISCG old) last week and installing the cranks on my fiance's SlopeStyle (ISCG 05) last night, I can assure you that the ISCG mount on stephan's frame is ISCG 05.

    Stephan, note that it's not uncommon to have to grind chainguide back plates in order to clear various suspension components. I think on all the E13 guides I've installed on to Intense frames lately, I've had to notch out an area for the circlip that's around the upper link pin. It looks like you may need to do the same. Doing this modification is much better than trying to use spacers.
    Thanks for the info ( I assume you mean the bolt on the black piece that says GVP). Could you post a pic if possible of your work?
    Thanks,
    Stephen
    52 gear inches

  39. #39
    Ideas Above My Station...
    Reputation: Orange-Goblin's Avatar
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    Sorry, reviving this one again as i've gone single ring, but been swayed away from the MRP G@ by my LBS, the owner of which is changing to a Bashguard-style system because he has bent his ISCG mounts from knocking the taco on his G2 so much. I think on reflection i'd rather stick with a bashguard system, as my hone bashring has been flawless and i don't want to risk my ISCG mounts.

    SO.....

    Any ideas what decent single ring systems work on the Intense?

    My LBS has steered me heavily away from the E13 systems, as they have a very weird habit of throwing the chain up out of the top roller/guide if you steer under compression because of the angle of the rollers on the chain, i have seen this on my friends DRS too.

    Anybody any experience on what Chain Guides work on the SS for a single ring system?

    Huge thanks in advance!!
    Its All Downhill From Here....!

  40. #40
    Old school BMXer
    Reputation: Blaster1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Goblin
    Any ideas what decent single ring systems work on the Intense?

    My LBS has steered me heavily away from the E13 systems, as they have a very weird habit of throwing the chain up out of the top roller/guide if you steer under compression because of the angle of the rollers on the chain, i have seen this on my friends DRS too.

    Anybody any experience on what Chain Guides work on the SS for a single ring system?

    Huge thanks in advance!!
    For single ring, I still go with the E13 SRS. Yes, they can have problems if they are not set up properly - like all chaing guide systems, I've seen all kinds of weird problems with systems that aren't set up right.
    Incorrect back plate, incorrect rotation of the plate, incorrect sized chainring/bashguard combo, incorrect spacing from the top guide to the chain, and the incorrect spacing from the top guide to the bash guard can all cause weird problems. When set up properly, problems do not exist with the E13 SRS. No, I'm not sponored in any way by E13, but I just have half a dozen of them on a bunch of my bikes - and been using them for years since converting from MRP, and so I have had a lot of experience with them.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salami's Avatar
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    I have had good luck with my ISCG mount Gamut P20. I doubt it would take the hit of a E-13 but I think I would rather the guide destruct than my ISCG tabs.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
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    Just a little note, shimano do 1mm spacers for funny fits if needed. I had to use one on my 6.6.
    Meh

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