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  1. #1
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    6.6 shock spacers

    Righto,

    Some of you may have seen my previous post about changing the head angle of my 6.6. I've had a few pm's about the spacers I had made up and I finally got round to taking pics and taking measurements. So here you go....

    The total change to bottom bracket height amounts to just 7mm. While that is not a lot, it translates to a far far better handling bike. The change to the head angle is something I don't know how to measure but I can tell you this: the bike feels the way all you 6.6 owners wish it did. It is NOT as slack as a Slopestyle (I have an SS to compare it to) and remains an AM bike. However, it rails turns better and feels way better at speed. Small change - big result.

    In my origional post I said I "may" be prepared to have some of these made up if there is enough interest. I probably can't be bothered but if I was overwhelmed with request I may.

    Here are the pics which show you the spacers which essentially reduce the relative length of the shock.
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  2. #2
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    I want them

    Hi, would like to purchase ASAP, let me know what you're asking.

    Thanks

  3. #3
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    So i doesnt affect

    So it does not effect the climbing usually slacked out bikes cant climb that great. The intended purpose is all mountain it would have come from the factory that way being they test the heck out of the prototypes and determine what geo and angles work the best for the intended application. That said it would be interesting to see how the mod would perform because I do use my bike (6.6) a lot for downhill terrain and a slightly slacked bike would be better considering the BB is pretty high. It would be interesting to check it out.What is the $$

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downhilldoug
    So it does not effect the climbing usually slacked out bikes cant climb that great. The intended purpose is all mountain it would have come from the factory that way being they test the heck out of the prototypes and determine what geo and angles work the best for the intended application. That said it would be interesting to see how the mod would perform because I do use my bike (6.6) a lot for downhill terrain and a slightly slacked bike would be better considering the BB is pretty high. It would be interesting to check it out.What is the $$

    I always found that the 6.6 wanders a bit on climbs. With the HA slacker it is no worse. I do use the travel reduction function of my Talas forks on steep climbs.

    What is interesting is that now, with the HA a little slacker, I ride my Talas in the 140mm setting on most flowing trails opting for 160mm only when the going gets fast/steep/gnarly. With the slacker HA and the shorter fork, it is awesome in tight single track.

  5. #5
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    The cost:

    Chaps,
    When I had them made, they cost me $88 Australian ($60USD). However this was a one off job and hence more expensive. A run of 10 or 20 will bring the cost down by as much as 40-50%. I won't do this for the money, but if there is not enough interest I don't think I'll do it at all. If I get 10+ orders I'll look into it and do it on the basis of charging cost + postage + 10 bucks for my effort. That means they'll cost you (assuming the cost comes down on a run of 10+) about $40 - $455USD I am guessing.

    Alternatively, find yourself a little engineering company who is happy to do small jobs, take them your spacers and have some made up yourself - it's not hard.

  6. #6
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    Here is 1 order

    count me in, thanks

  7. #7
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    Make them from 1 piece of stainless steel instead of the 2 piece alum design and they last more than a month.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown
    Make them from 1 piece of stainless steel instead of the 2 piece alum design and they last more than a month.
    These alu ones have held up just fine. However, if you have a better design worked out - please post a drawing and if it's better - terrific.

  9. #9
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    I think what buildyourown is refering to is a pin/axle solution (w/ bushing and spacers) as it comes on CCDBs just that the drilling in the axle is off-center. Might even be a little easier (and cheaper) in production. TF-tuned (http://www.tftunedshox.com/mount-kit...-bushings.html) might make some custom for us. I'll ask since I'm interested in this issue myself and let you all know.

  10. #10
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    Zuzi beat me to the link.
    The alum ones are notorious for wearing prematurely. Instead of the bushing wearing as they are designed to do. Replacing with a one peice steel shaft fixes this.
    Might not be a big deal normally but if you are paying a premium for custom ones, might as well make them as durable as possible.
    And yes, as a Machinist, they would be cheaper and easier to make.

  11. #11
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    ... talked to Tim F. today

    ... sorry, no custom mounting kit available with off-center bolt holes. This is because he has them made over seas and lead time for shipping is 3-4 months and production is not really flexible over there. He recommended to try my luck at "betd" (UK company). I will also try at "Brunn" (german company) who make custom bike parts and prototypes. However bushings and spacers could be ordered from TF.

  12. #12
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    Just look up a small engineering business in your town / city. They are not hard to make.

  13. #13
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    In the states, we call them machine shops.

  14. #14
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    Thank you for that.

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    Emailed you after the last post, still keen so count me in! Think that makes 3.

    Originally from Oz so can sort out TRF easy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravityfreaky
    Righto,

    The change to the head angle is something I don't know how to measure.
    Here is a picture of a possible way how to measure head angle. Hope it helps.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
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    Betd will make em!

    Received a quote from Betd. They will sell you a pair with steel axles, bushings, spacers and rubber seals for 47,- Pounds Sterling. This includes shipping to Austria, so I guess it will be the same for other EU countries.

    If you're interested ask for Dan - he's into this topic now. And tell him I send you

  18. #18
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    Funny enough I ordered mine from them last week - sent them Gravity's photos!

    New stainless spaces, bushes (and bearings) will be with me early next, & will let you know the changes.

  19. #19
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    This is actually really interesting, but what about tire clearance? Are you sure that the tire won't hit the seat tube at bottom-out?

    The sag "concept" of the VPP is probably also a little bit off with the custom made reducer, but that doesn't necessarily make the bike perform bad in real life.

    Another option could be to run a 7.5x2.0" rear shock instead of the 7.875x2.25" that's original, but that would put the sag even more off. But I guess tire clearance wouldn't be an issue (not implying that it is an issue with the custom reducers).

    Anyway, I hope these turns out to be working with no problems, since it could turn the 6.6 into an even better bike.

    Are the BETD reducers the "Strong bushes" as the seen in this link http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co...=Strong+Bushes?

  20. #20
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    @dbug ... what did you tell them (Betd) regarding the off-set. A certain amount (I was thinking of 2.5 mm off center) or did you leave it up to them to off-set as much as they possibly can?

    @evensen ... if you used a 7.5 x 2.0" shock you'll loose .75" (ca. 20 mm) in travel - not for me anyway. And yes, they should use their standard strong bushes.

  21. #21
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    Hi guys,

    As seen in previous post about shortening shocks to do the same thing as I have achieved - the response from Jeff Steber was that reducing the shocks travel by 5mm to achieve a slacker HA is ok as long as you don't go much further than that. Any more than 5mm will affect the VVP performance. Therefore using a 2.0 rather than a 2.25 stroke is not on.

    Re the offsets that I have had made, there are NO adverse effects.
    Bike pedals the same. Rear wheels doesn't hit the seat tube.

    If you have the spacers made with the most off-set possible, it will be just under 5mm. You would NOT want it any more than that anyway as the HA is pretty slack at that amount. The good thing is that you can use off set spacer in one or both ends of the shock depending on how much you want to slacken the HA. I use them at both ends and it is quite slack.
    Last edited by gravityfreaky; 02-09-2009 at 03:20 PM.

  22. #22
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    Hmmmmm.

    Ive got a mate with a cnc. Might get him to pop a couple of these out for me.....
    Meh

  23. #23
    LCJ
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    Is there any reason why this couldn't be done on a 5.5 as well?

  24. #24
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    Just mailed BETD about the offset reducers. They are currently making sets up for both the 6.6 and the 5.5. £45 UK... but with the exchange rate like it is it won't be much more US.
    Their site is at mountainbikecomponents.co.uk

  25. #25
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    The high BB is about the only thing I've been wanting to change on my 6.6 just to make cornering that much more stable.

    So, I had an old air 7.5x2.0" knocking about from an older frame. Finally stuck it on the other night.

    Not ridden it yet but it puts the Head angle at 66.7 and the BB at 13.6" with a Fox36 (535mm Axle to Crown). Sounds Sweet to me... even if I'm losing .7" of travel.

    Like mentioned above, Im sure its going to stuff up the VPP pedaling sweet spot. So I'll post again with a review of what its like once I've taken it out a few times.

  26. #26
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    Ok so I have (finally) recieved and fitted a set of offset bush that BETD made up. They appear to have achieved the same 2.5mm offset at each end as Gravity noted above. The set weighs 56g (complete with all new bushes, seals etc) compared to 31g for the alu and original fox meatl bush.

    My large frame is fitted with a Hope Step Down HS (flush) and 08 Fox Talas (@160), Mavic 321 rims and 2.35 Maxxis Minnion's.

    Started at; BB: 357mm, WB:1127mm, HA:67, SA: 71 (angles are as close as I can determine using a dial type angle tool).

    With offset bushes this changes to; BB: 347mm, WB: 1130, HA: 66.2, SA:70.2. I b

    I was hoping for a little more wheel base as I believe the shorter WB coupled with original 14.1BB has been the main issue for that slightly 'on' not 'in' feel but anything will do.

    I stroked the shoke to check for tire - ST contact an although REAL close does not appear to touch with the above set up.

    I am yet to get in on the trail (tomorrow..) but know the big diff is going to be the BB (-10mm!) and HA (-0.8/1deg), as Gravity notes, which will hopefully improve corner handling no end.

    Dan from BETD has had 20 odd sets made for both the 6.6 and 5.5, as he has a 5.5 himself..& the lengths seem spot on at each end at 24 and 33.9mm for the 6.6.

    Will drop a post when I have given it a go!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbug
    Ok so I have (finally) recieved and fitted a set of offset bush that BETD made up. They appear to have achieved the same 2.5mm offset at each end as Gravity noted above. The set weighs 56g (complete with all new bushes, seals etc) compared to 31g for the alu and original fox meatl bush.

    My large frame is fitted with a Hope Step Down HS (flush) and 08 Fox Talas (@160), Mavic 321 rims and 2.35 Maxxis Minnion's.

    Started at; BB: 357mm, WB:1127mm, HA:67, SA: 71 (angles are as close as I can determine using a dial type angle tool).

    With offset bushes this changes to; BB: 347mm, WB: 1130, HA: 66.2, SA:70.2. I b

    I was hoping for a little more wheel base as I believe the shorter WB coupled with original 14.1BB has been the main issue for that slightly 'on' not 'in' feel but anything will do.

    I stroked the shoke to check for tire - ST contact an although REAL close does not appear to touch with the above set up.

    I am yet to get in on the trail (tomorrow..) but know the big diff is going to be the BB (-10mm!) and HA (-0.8/1deg), as Gravity notes, which will hopefully improve corner handling no end.

    Dan from BETD has had 20 odd sets made for both the 6.6 and 5.5, as he has a 5.5 himself..& the lengths seem spot on at each end at 24 and 33.9mm for the 6.6.

    Will drop a post when I have given it a go!
    Hey well done mate. I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. I found that on my first ride with them I was thinking "it's not THAT different" because I had high expectations. It was only on subsequent rides that I realised how much of a positive difference they made. I hope you feel the same.

    I gather you had yours made of stainless rather than aluminium?

  28. #28
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    Good job!

    Yes stainless & thank you for the concept!

    Spent the day in a bike park area with a dual, 4 cross run, few dirt jumps and bit of wood work. It definetley corners better and feels more planted. It strangley feels a little better in the air as well.

    On suspension I believe it has changed the compression curve a bit (to be expected) so perhaps will be slightly less small bump sensitive but seems to ramp up earlier (mid) and more at the end of stroke which seems to fit the concept of the U shaped curve of VPP moving to perhaps more of a J ?. I am running the same air setup in the RP23 as before @ 210 and haven't touched the compression from before. I did a few drops of about 5-6ft and didn't quite use all the stroke (about 3-4mm short) so that seems spot on.

    I didn't do any climbing so not sure on how the change in HA will affect this but I run Talas so ...There are no technical trails so as to say i.e rock gradens etc so I did not get to test peddle stroke over obsticles ..but again thats more about skill!

    So positives; corners better, feels more planted, and what could be considered a negative is a change in curve to something which seems less wallowy + a nicely machined stainless bushes.

    Negaitives: small bump (but maybe I can amend C&R to suit)

    I forgot to mention I also replaced the bottom link bearings and had not realised how bad they had become which might add to the general improvement in fast corners...

    So - from me.
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  29. #29
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    looks interesting

    looks good guys.
    I'd love to hear some more ride reports after you get some more miles and some more varied terrain.

    I'd also be very interested in hearing ride impressions from any one with a coil/ CCDB who tries the offset's.
    With my 170mm Mars 66rc2x I'm at about 14 1/2 inches measures from the middle of the BB. I already have a flush headset so this seems like a good way to lower the BB but I dont have travel adjust up front and I do some long (3000 foot) climbs so I'm curious about overall performance

    cheers
    Intense 6.6..... Demo 9.

    Mammoth MTN downhilling - check it out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_m_pb0Ns0

  30. #30
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    has anyone tried this with a tracer? the lower shock bushing looks to be a special machined piece and not the normal aluminum bushings

  31. #31
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    bump

    looking for a little feed back now that some time has passed.
    dbug... still happy?
    Any one know if any US based shops are selling a kit like this?
    cheers
    Intense 6.6..... Demo 9.

    Mammoth MTN downhilling - check it out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_m_pb0Ns0

  32. #32
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    I'll chime in

    I've got a 6.6 and after lurking around this forum a while decided to get the strong bushes.

    A little history: I like a low-slung and slack bike that turns well. I also wanted a multi purpose bike that I could do epic rides with but still get the job done at a bike park. That is what I thought I was getting when I purchased the 6.6. After I built it up with a Lyric and 2.35 tires, it ended up being a little tall for my taste with a bb height of about 14.4" (Not sure where Intense got the "13.8 inch bb height" for their official specs )

    So I have been running the Strong offset bushes from BETD for almost a month. IMHO, they don't drastically change the feel of the bike, but they make a noticable difference for the better. My new bb height is 14". Not sure of the HA, but it feels a little more slack. The bike is still very balanced and very responsive. I really do feel that I can dive into turns harder. I run the suspension soft (35-40% sag with no platform) so that I can compress the suspension in turns to lower my center of gravity even further - I could care less about the "VPP pedalling sweet spot" or care about smacking pedals on rocks. I want suspension that absorbs rough chatter and chop and feels confident in turns so that I can go faster -whoohoo!

    Just got back from some chair lift assisted ridng at Massanutten ski resort yesterday and I was stoked at how well this bike handles. I was surrounded by 8"-plus travel bikes everywhere but felt right at home with this bike. If anything was holding me back it was my Lyric fork which was being worked way too hard. (saving up for a Totem ).

    Hindsight being 20/20, maybe I should have bought the SS model. But I am really happy with my new 6.6 setup I have also been reading good things about running a 7.5"x2" travel shock (with standard non-offset bushings) to lower the center of gravity even further. This might be next on my list of things to try.

    Again, I'll say that I am very HAPPY with this set-up.

    Hope that helps.

  33. #33
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    Well sinse I started this whole thing I guess I've been running the set up for the longest. I am very happy with it and it has made the bike so much better that I almost don't need my SS (although I still love it and wouldn't get rid of it for anything).
    The only downside of these spacers is that i feel the front wanders even more on climbs than it did before (and it wasn't too great to begin with). Ironically my SS climbs way better (except for the weight).

    My next little experiment is I am going to have a rear axel machined up. It will for from 12mm in the centre (so I can run a through axel wheel) down to 10mm so I can fit it to this frame. I will then use nuts rather than QR to tighten it all up. Why? Because I am trying to a) get some more stiffness out of the rear end and b) I have all but destroyed my QR all mountain rear wheel and have a nice Mavic 721 with through axel hub sitting in the garage not being used. If anyone else wants to try this speak up now and I can get a few more made up at the same time.

  34. #34
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    At it again hey..I am also going to a bolt-up (Hope Pro II version) to see if that will stiffen the rear end up -had it go all squirelly on me the other week!!

    For me the offsets work really well. Not worried about peddle strike but have clipped a few more times then I used too. It does also wander more for those with fixed forks...

    My BB has also come in much lower then the 14" Billy mentioned - more like 13.6/7. But I do have a flush head set.

    That said I have just changed stems to a 70mm Thompson and Sunline low rise bars & things have got all a little strange! Will need to spend a bit more time to see whats up with that!

    Gravity- what stem do you run? I am wondering if a 50 or 60 might work better with the slacker HA.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbug
    At it again hey..I am also going to a bolt-up (Hope Pro II version) to see if that will stiffen the rear end up -had it go all squirelly on me the other week!!

    For me the offsets work really well. Not worried about peddle strike but have clipped a few more times then I used too. It does also wander more for those with fixed forks...

    My BB has also come in much lower then the 14" Billy mentioned - more like 13.6/7. But I do have a flush head set.

    That said I have just changed stems to a 70mm Thompson and Sunline low rise bars & things have got all a little strange! Will need to spend a bit more time to see whats up with that!

    Gravity- what stem do you run? I am wondering if a 50 or 60 might work better with the slacker HA.

    Yea mate - I'm a serial tinkerer - it's a disease!
    I am actually running a pretty long stem (90mm Thompson). My bike is a medium and I am six foot tall so I can't really get away with somethting shorter without getting pretty cramped. I have run a 50mm stem that I use on my SS on it feels great handling wise but I loose some of the pedaling ability because I am not stretched out enough. I try a 70mm one of these days as a happy medium. On my SS I run a one inch set back Thompson seat post which gives me more room but on the 6.6 that seat post puts my weight way too far back and the climbing suffers (even with my Talas wound down to 100mm).

    What shock do you run? I am thinking of getting an air can (smaller volume) for an RP23 on fitting that to my DHX. Apparently gets rid of some of that mid-stroke wallow. $50 from Push.

    Finally, have covered my bike with a paint protection kit so it stays all nice and shiny!

    Whew - how do I find time to work ! ;-)

    p.s. post a pic of your ride.

  36. #36
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    12 mm to 10mm conversion

    I found this after a bit of searching last night.

    http://nycfreeride.com/item.php?id=13

    Perhaps you don't need to get it custom made

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris6.6
    I found this after a bit of searching last night.

    http://nycfreeride.com/item.php?id=13

    Perhaps you don't need to get it custom made
    Ah - excellent work ! I may still get one made myself because it'll be cheaper. The other thing is that I would probably prefer old fashioned nuts rather than hex bolts simply because I can do the nuts up tighter and they have a greater surface area to seat against the dropoouts.

    This set-up is of course for use with a 12x135 through axel hub. I am probably also going to pull apart my Easton Havov 10x135 QR hub and see if I can get an axel machined up which I can replace the stock one with. This way I can keep running that wheelset (even though the rim is knackered!) for my AM rides and have a nice stiff bolt through set-up. Then swap to the more heavy duty wheel with the 12/10mm bolt through.

  38. #38
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    How about this one?

    http://www.azonicusa.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=116

    Are you in Aus or the US?

  39. #39
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    I'm in sunny Sydney Australia mate.

    That one is just what I am after except I want it made from Aluminium not Cro-mo for weight. Great price though!

  40. #40
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    Ok, great, I'd like to see your bike with the slackers some time. I'm also in Sydney, and mainly ride on the north side, but some times get down to Menai.

    I was thinking the cup hex heads would be better for out on the trail, as you wouldn't need to carry a set of spanners with you. two allen keys are smaller and easier to carry.

    Like you I'm 6ft with a medium frame running a 65 mm stem, but I've just ordered an 80 mm stem

    I've just put on a Air Roco TST R, and it is so much better the the DHX air .

    Also swap between a Fox Talas 36 and Rockshox Domain 180 mm travel up front

    I'm trying to order the shock spacers from BetD, but perhaps you can tell me where yuou had them machined locally?

    Edit: Ahh I see you ride Oxford Falls, I dont' tink I ever seen another 6.6 anywhere let alone Oxford Falls, which is where I've done most of my riding lately.
    Last edited by Chris6.6; 05-11-2009 at 09:41 PM.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris6.6
    Ok, great, I'd like to see your bike with the slackers some time. I'm also in Sydney, and mainly ride on the north side, but some times get down to Menai.

    I was thinking the cup hex heads would be better for out on the trail, as you wouldn't need to carry a set of spanners with you. two allen keys are smaller and easier to carry.

    Like you I'm 6ft with a medium frame running a 65 mm stem, but I've just ordered an 80 mm stem

    I've just put on a Air Roco TST R, and it is so much better the the DHX air .

    Also swap between a Fox Talas 36 and Rockshox Domain 180 mm travel up front

    I'm trying to order the shock spacers from BetD, but perhaps you can tell me where yuou had them machined locally?

    Edit: Ahh I see you ride Oxford Falls, I dont' tink I ever seen another 6.6 anywhere let alone Oxford Falls, which is where I've done most of my riding lately.

    Ha - nice one ! I live in Fairlight and when on my 6.6 usually ride Manly Dam (it's a white 6.6). I have seen one other 6,6 and it was red - could that be you?
    When riding Oxford Falls I usually ride my Slopestyle which is black. I haven't been riding OF much recently though. In fact I rode there 3 weeks ago and that was teh first time there in ages - but it was SO much fun.

    Email me we can go for a ride and you can try my set-up. Also email me and I'll let you know where I had the spacers made.

    crewebrown@gmail.com

  42. #42
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    Yep, I think that was me, near the top of the fire road about a month ago. Wasn't feeling too good, so as you went by, I didn't see if it was a 6.6, it was so clean I thought it may have been a new Tracer.

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    Was so clean cause I use this stuff www.surfacetech.com.au

  44. #44
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    I used the dodgy method of clear packing tape.....

  45. #45
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    Well you need to know someone who knows someone who runs a business that makes paint protection kits for bicycles ;-)

  46. #46
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    Pics of a 6.6 with the offset bushings in

    Guys, anyone got pics of their 6.6 with offset bushings fitted?

  47. #47
    suspension whore
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    Quote Originally Posted by theador View Post
    Guys, anyone got pics of their 6.6 with offset bushings fitted?
    here's a shot, 170mm fork.... bike still going strong
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Intense 6.6..... Demo 9.

    Mammoth MTN downhilling - check it out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_m_pb0Ns0

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindthegap View Post
    The high BB is about the only thing I've been wanting to change on my 6.6 just to make cornering that much more stable.

    So, I had an old air 7.5x2.0" knocking about from an older frame. Finally stuck it on the other night.

    Not ridden it yet but it puts the Head angle at 66.7 and the BB at 13.6" with a Fox36 (535mm Axle to Crown). Sounds Sweet to me... even if I'm losing .7" of travel.

    Like mentioned above, Im sure its going to stuff up the VPP pedaling sweet spot. So I'll post again with a review of what its like once I've taken it out a few times.
    Did it muck up the VPP pedal point?

  49. #49
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    I'd like to get some offset bushings but the links seem to be either gone or not carrying them anymore. Does anyone know if these are still available?
    Remember, you are unique, just like everyone else.

  50. #50
    Team 5Hunner
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    Mountain bike components and mountain bikes by BETD / Goldtec

    BETD Goldtec do them, link above. They will be make to order now, make sure you get a lead time from them. If they are doing a big job for someone else your order will not be a priority.

    I have the offset bushings from them, and the are working great.

    Cheers.
    My current rides.
    Intense 6.6 coil/coil AM.
    Commencal Max Max Superteam jump bike.

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