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  1. #1
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    Interesting article

    Not local, but it could be...

    http://www.rgj.com/article/20090816/...0353/1321/NEWS

    Oh, and "to spend $29,000 to close three miles of illicit trails" that is a bit excessive
    Hey, is that a Huffy? That's a nice-lookin' bike, boy!

  2. #2
    Is dang happy!
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    30g is probably the cost of a new SUV for a Forest Service administrator.

    That organization is run like Blackwater IMO. They have no problem cutting in and maintaining millions of miles of logging roads for private companies but when the public tries to enjoy/improve public land we become the eco-boogymen.

    I am still pissed at the farktards for destroying miles of epic trail outside of glacier with heavy equipment years back in a (thinning operation) cough, er..more like road improvement for land swap. It was one of my favorite trails at the time and on the 1965 glacier park map even.
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  3. #3
    mtnjam
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    same shiite different place....

    Sounds like they're busy over in Oregon too....asking that the stunt on ODP be "temporarily" closed
    Just ride down there and jump off something for crying out loud...

  4. #4
    aaarrrggghh!
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    Yep....

    It's like banging your head against the wall.... You know your right but somehow your still wrong. Strange isn't it?

  5. #5
    TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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    It's those fuggin freeriders - gul dern neocon huckster bishes.They have no concept of singletrack. Did you see the trail in that photo? My driveway is narrower than those rollers. You'd think they contracted the pirate trailbuilding to illegal imigrant labor that slithered north from the southland.
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  6. #6
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    sounds like the "fun haters" are at it again!

  7. #7
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    I am very encouraged by the responses to the article in this thread. Of course, we are all cyclist but don't necessarily share the same discipline but the comments so far are progressive. I am digging that.

  8. #8
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    "Oh, and "to spend $29,000 to close three miles of illicit trails" that is a bit excessive"

    I think what you want to ask yourself is; for $29,000 how much trail could we and the forest service have built legally?

    You can call them "fun haters", but remember that the state/federal lands belong to all of us and when you build illegal trails that cause damage and erosion then you are damaging "our lands".
    I do not particularly care for "free riding" so much, but I respect the fact that it is a part of the mountain biking community. As a part of this community I realize that illegal trail building gives all mountain bikers a bad name and makes it more difficult for trail building and trail access. I know it is frustrating because things happen at a snail's pace, but it is more fruitful to go through the proper channels when building trails. Otherwise we all risk a backlash and the chance of losing even more access to state/federal/wildlife lands.

    The voices around this area are quite loud when it comes to "free riding". This smaller group is willing to put in the time and to do the manual work that is involved with building and maintaining trails. For this they should be recognized and thanked. It has been slower than most in the group would like, but there is progress being made in building trails that these types of riders enjoy. Take this as an example and work with the system to make things happen.
    BoiseBoy

  9. #9
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    The Forest Service, and other land managers, need to realize that this is a legitimate type of riding and riders are going to continue with the pirate option until they are provided an avenue to make it legal. There is no reason these trails cannot be built sustainably and for them to use erosion or damage as an excuse for disallowing it is downright ignorant. It is nice to see people being more accepting of this newer discipline and hopefully more areas will pick up on the teton pass model where they have progressive thinking land managers who are working with the riders. I am not condoning this activity but it is a simple reality that this segment of cycling is growing and there are just too few areas where they can ride the way they want to ride. If an area isn't provided, they will provide their own, simple human behavior here.

  10. #10
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    Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.

    1. Nobody has said that "freeriding" is illegitimate. Rather, the article states that it is increasing in popularity. Reading is fundamental.

    2. The article does indicate - whether accurately or not - that the majority of "illegal" trails are built for "freeriding." (Remember the Hick Hucksters controversy?)

    3. Free is just another word for nothing left to lose.

    4. What the land managers are not accepting is NOT freeriding. It's the illegal trail building. Duh. And I'm sure it's not just "freeriders" who do it - their illegal trails are just the most gonzo and obvious. As Twisted noted, Christ - you could see that illegal trail from space. I learned a long time ago that if you want to engage in illegal behavior, you might want to, well, sort of do it in a manner that would minimize the risk of discovery - ie, dont jerk your gherkin (or your merkin) in public.

    5. The land managers are the experts on forest preservation, fish habitat and archeology sites. To state otherwise is "downright ignorant."

    6. The local "freeriders" (why in the feck is it called "freeriding" anyway??) have - after getting their collective hand slapped (remember Big Wood?) - worked with land managers and apparently have now built some trails on which they may huck themselves and each other until they go limp.

    7. God knows what sort of illegal trails those 29'er riding luddites would build. Likely ones that would benefit from more traction for those big wheels, wide angle turns so big an 18 wheeler could navigate them, and ones where the "mine rolls better 'cuz it's bigger" nature of those big wheels would be emphasized. It makes one wonder if you need larger trail building tools for 29'er trails. Next, it will be those 650b guys wanting to build illegal trails that will feature all the benefits of 26" wheels and 29" wheels, with none of the drawbacks. The tool manufacturers will be happy and SWIMBA can get some mid-sized tools with their [insert corporate beer manufacturer here] cash.

    8. The world is ending as Boise Poi and I seem to be in agreement. For God sakes, this is one of the Four Horsemen of that Apokalips.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthpig
    Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.

    1. Nobody has said that "freeriding" is illegitimate. Rather, the article states that it is increasing in popularity. Reading is fundamental.

    2. The article does indicate - whether accurately or not - that the majority of "illegal" trails are built for "freeriding." (Remember the Hick Hucksters controversy?)

    3. Free is just another word for nothing left to lose.

    4. What the land managers are not accepting is NOT freeriding. It's the illegal trail building. Duh. And I'm sure it's not just "freeriders" who do it - their illegal trails are just the most gonzo and obvious. As Twisted noted, Christ - you could see that illegal trail from space. I learned a long time ago that if you want to engage in illegal behavior, you might want to, well, sort of do it in a manner that would minimize the risk of discovery - ie, dont jerk your gherkin (or your merkin) in public.

    5. The land managers are the experts on forest preservation, fish habitat and archeology sites. To state otherwise is "downright ignorant."

    6. The local "freeriders" (why in the feck is it called "freeriding" anyway??) have - after getting their collective hand slapped (remember Big Wood?) - worked with land managers and apparently have now built some trails on which they may huck themselves and each other until they go limp.

    7. God knows what sort of illegal trails those 29'er riding luddites would build. Likely ones that would benefit from more traction for those big wheels, wide angle turns so big an 18 wheeler could navigate them, and ones where the "mine rolls better 'cuz it's bigger" nature of those big wheels would be emphasized. It makes one wonder if you need larger trail building tools for 29'er trails. Next, it will be those 650b guys wanting to build illegal trails that will feature all the benefits of 26" wheels and 29" wheels, with none of the drawbacks. The tool manufacturers will be happy and SWIMBA can get some mid-sized tools with their [insert corporate beer manufacturer here] cash.

    8. The world is ending as Boise Poi and I seem to be in agreement. For God sakes, this is one of the Four Horsemen of that Apokalips.

    Maybe I came across wrong in that post, or maybe you read it with a preconceived idea of what I meant but didn't say. I pretty clearly stated I was pleased by the responses to the article and how they were not demonizing the 'freeride' trend.

    The biggest hangup when trying to get a trail like we are discussing built on public lands is the 'multi use' designation. Can a hiker safely walk it? Can it be ridden or walked in both directions safely? The answer to both of these questions with a freeride type of trail is "no". So they have historically not allowed it and closed trails that were built up to very high standards and meticulously maintained (remember Big Wood)
    This 'multi use' disignation needs to be addressed when we bring these type of discussions up. They don't go together and if land managers are going to insist on it, the builders will have to go elsewhere or do it pirate style anyway. If there is nowhere else to go, what do you think will happen?

    When you refer to a freeride trail already available, are you referring to the Bogus trail? That is on private property generously allowed by Bogus Basin after discussions of liability and agreements on maintenance and removal of stunts during winter months. Very gracious of them and very private property. It would never have happened if that were public land and that is where the issue comes up.

    Again, look at Jackson Hole. They figured it out and are moving forward.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthpig
    7. God knows what sort of illegal trails those 29'er riding luddites would build. Likely ones that would benefit from more traction for those big wheels, wide angle turns so big an 18 wheeler could navigate them, and ones where the "mine rolls better 'cuz it's bigger" nature of those big wheels would be emphasized. It makes one wonder if you need larger trail building tools for 29'er trails. Next, it will be those 650b guys wanting to build illegal trails that will feature all the benefits of 26" wheels and 29" wheels, with none of the drawbacks. The tool manufacturers will be happy and SWIMBA can get some mid-sized tools with their [insert corporate beer manufacturer here] cash.
    And just wait for the fixie mountain bike movement to hit. Who knows what they will want. Sorry just had to add it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema
    When you refer to a freeride trail already available, are you referring to the Bogus trail? That is on private property generously allowed by Bogus Basin after discussions of liability and agreements on maintenance and removal of stunts during winter months. Very gracious of them and very private property. It would never have happened if that were public land and that is where the issue comes up.
    Correct me if I am wrong, I am completely ok with that. I didn't think that Bogus Basin was private property. I am not saying it is open free for all property but isn't it still forest service land and managed by them?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayd
    Correct me if I am wrong, I am completely ok with that. I didn't think that Bogus Basin was private property. I am not saying it is open free for all property but isn't it still forest service land and managed by them?
    The vast majority of Bogus Basin is Forest Service land. The area between the lodges, however, is private and that is where they let us build the DH and Freeride trails.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayd
    And just wait for the fixie mountain bike movement to hit. Who knows what they will want. Sorry just had to add it.
    Lets see, they want coffee shops, downtowns to look hip in, and now apparently skate parks?

    link

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema
    The vast majority of Bogus Basin is Forest Service land. The area between the lodges, however, is private and that is where they let us build the DH and Freeride trails.
    Oh cool.

  17. #17
    TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema
    Lets see, they want coffee shops, downtowns to look hip in, and now apparently skate parks?

    link
    Just goes to show you, when you jack em full of high-fructose corn syrup, caffine, ginsing, niacin and taurine, turn up the buzz metal, park a life-sized Hot Wheels truck covered with devil worship decals in front of em and flip on the cam corder, they'll do just about anything.
    Last edited by TwistedCrank; 08-25-2009 at 11:44 AM.
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  18. #18
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    the truth hurts


  19. #19
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayd
    And just wait for the fixie mountain bike movement to hit. Who knows what they will want. Sorry just had to add it.
    German chicks in unitards.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrdirt
    So I hate to say this but I can't quite figure out who is getting made fun of in this.

  21. #21
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayd
    So I hate to say this but I can't quite figure out who is getting made fun of in this.
    To close the loop, I'd say it's the freeriders.

  22. #22
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    German chicks in unitards boner alert.

    Tell yer friends.

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    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  23. #23
    jones'in
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthpig
    German chicks in unitards.

    You heard it first.

    That was RAD! But I totally had 'Send Me An Angel' playing in my head instead of whatever crap-music they were actually using.
    \m/ (>.<) \m/
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  24. #24
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema
    The vast majority of Bogus Basin is Forest Service land. The area between the lodges, however, is private and that is where they let us build the DH and Freeride trails.
    News to me. I thought all of Bogus was on FS land. But, the "free"riders still were required to work with and obtain the permission of the landowner to build a sustainable trail up there. If it's private, I wonder what sort of liability insurance Bogus carries. To ride the lifts, your season ticket or day ticket has a waiver of liability attached.

  25. #25
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    Bogus has no liability for the trails. They did not build them (we did), and Idaho law protects private land owners quite well. It was designed with hunters in mind to promote letting hunters in on land without concern of consequence many years ago. A select few of us did all the research and approached Bogus about this. They are eager to have bikes up there and once assured there was no down side to them, were very accomodating. That trail is the only one of its type within at least 2 hours drive from here. It is the exception, not the rule and it is only because it is privately owned that it happened.

    I am fully aware of the process for dealing with land owners and how the system works. I was part of the Big Wood debacle and worked with Craig at Bogus more than a couple of times, among others. Because of this, I know how public land managers view the use of public lands. Multi use means just that and there are many points to back it up the philosophy, not saying it is a bad thing. But as the number of people wanting trails like this grows, the "public" will be having a need that is not being met by its lands and the land managers need to address that. The refusal to do so will mean that pirate trails will be built by the public in lands that are theirs.

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