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Thread: Horse ????'s

  1. #1
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    Horse ????'s

    Why aren't horses considered mechanized? Straps and hinges to things, sturups, horse shoes...etc. I don't understand. I am a huge biker and BC skier and both are mechanized. I say horses are mechanized unless it's bareback with a rope around the neck, which may be a bit mean to the horse.
    I believe it is fairly well documented that bikes have minimal impact, equal to or less than a horse.
    Curious,
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  2. #2
    jones'in
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    Skis are considered mechanized by 'wilderness' designations?????? Whaaaaa????
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    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    Skis are excluded from Wilderness designated areas. However, hang gliders are....

    As an FYI, you can't even walk your bike through a wilderness areas. It has to be "disabled". Don't ask me how I know. I just do.
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

  4. #4
    jones'in
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    By "excluded from wilderness designated areas", do you mean that skis *are* or *aren't* allowed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visicypher
    Skis are excluded from Wilderness designated areas. However, hang gliders are....

    As an FYI, you can't even walk your bike through a wilderness areas. It has to be "disabled". Don't ask me how I know. I just do.
    You got it backwards, Al. (about skis) Don't worry, happens to the best of us.

    from what I understand, you can't even possess bike parts. I bet a frame would be OK, just not wheels. We need collapsable frames and wheels, so the parts fit it a stuff sack.
    I don't know what trail we're on, but at least it's getting dark

  6. #6
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    Not only is skiing allowed in wilderness areas, there are commercial guides who run multi-day trips in the wilderness. From the website of Wallowa Alpine Huts:

    Greetings! Welcome to Oregon's "Little Switzerland", the Wallowa Mountains. We invite you to join us for a unique backcountry skiing experience in the Eagle Cap Wilderness Area. The Wallowa's intercontinental snowpack, in excess of 400 inches a winter, provides wide open bowls, old growth glades, and classic couloirs. Ringed in by peaks just shy of 10,000 feet, our ski terrain boasts abundant north-facing powder slopes ensuring fresh tracks well after a storm plus non-technical summits. We offer four day long-weekender trips or five day mid-weeker trips. You will have large cozy yurts, delicious food, a sauna, and dry Wallowa powder all to yourself. Hosted trips are lead by guides with years of experience outfitting backcountry ski trips in the Wallowas and beyond. Our McCully Basin camp at 7500 ft elevation sits 1.5 miles inside the northeastern Eagle Cap Wilderness Area. Our newest camp, Norway, sits at 7000 ft on the southwestern edge of the Wilderness Area. So if you would like to join us for some great wilderness area skiing and the time of your ski season, drop a line or give us a call at: (541)-426-4887.


    Wallowa Alpine Huts operates under a special use permit from the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest and is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer.
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  7. #7
    Don't worry, be happy!
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    this would be the fist I'd ever hear about skis not being allowed in Wilderness. OP better check his sources.

    Also there's a huge history to the definition of "wilderness" and "mechanized" , the 1964 Congressional bill and subsequent battles. I'm sure if you do a search on Wilderness in the passion or trail builder/advocacy forum you'll find out more than you ever really wanted to know.

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    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    Typo on my part. I meant excluded from being excluded. Skis are allowed in. I really should finish my sentences.

    As for bike parts in Wilderness, they are allowed in....wheels and all...as long as the parts are such that the rider is incapable of riding the bike. The Feds allowed a biker through the Kanab and the Grand Canyon...but he had to take his bike apart (fork off, handlebar off, yada, yada) and he had to hike with all his gear.

    As far as wilderness rules, legislation, and policy, if you ever want to know more. Hit me up. Be forewarned, all of it can make your head spin...as one can't deal with wilderness issues without having a background in NEPA legislation, policy, and procedures.
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    You are trying to apply logic. It is not about impact; mechanized definition or any other logical decision criteria. It is about politics, power and money. The people who had the right politics, power and money were able to exclude the uses they wanted at the right time. Politically, it was not a good idea to exclude horses or skis. Bikes were easy as people weren't really riding much offroad at the time. My personal view is all uses except hiking would be excluded if it were politically an option at the time.
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  11. #11
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    Howley,

    Actually, the IMBA stuff is not the greatest guide for submitting comments on USFS or BLM plans. However, for MTB fans, it may be the only guide.
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

  12. #12
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    And to be a little OT, Mr. Butterfield I haven't seen you since your raced the 100miler in Park City and I got a case of heat exhaustion in the solo class.
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    I'm just glad to see the term "mechanized" isn't applied to transport such as jet boats & airplanes...

    ...er-uh, maybe maybe that logic doesn't apply either.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdlhrd
    I'm just glad to see the term "mechanized" isn't applied to transport such as jet boats & airplanes...

    ...er-uh, maybe maybe that logic doesn't apply either.

    the airstrips in Frank Church as a special case.

  15. #15
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    Exactly. Corridors, special cases, exceptions, grandfathered usage. There are many examples, jet boats, airstrips, Macgruder trail, etc. This is what I find most frustrasting about wilderness designation and the "interpretations" that have taken place. I'd like to see some well-thought exceptions for bikes.

    On a similar note- I just finished watching the Ken Burns National Parks series on PBS. Great show and really illustrates the political & special-interest bartering that occurred with many of the parks.
    Last edited by pdlhrd; 10-04-2009 at 12:35 PM.

  16. #16
    jalepenio jimenez
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    What...?

    no mention of guns in the W?

    Finely machined, precision ground actions in every make and model.

    But not mechanized and why not?

    Maybe I just don't understand the meaning of mechanized and how it is applied in our W bills.
    I dig, chop, strangle, yank, stomp, annihilate, mutilate, eradicate, and FU goatheads

  17. #17
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    It is applied with prejudice.
    I don't know what trail we're on, but at least it's getting dark

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    One could always file a lawsuit to even the score. It is worth examining the intracacies of what is mechanized. Here is one lawsuit worth a close study.

    http://montanamountainbike.ning.com/...awsuit-fantasy
    I don't know what trail we're on, but at least it's getting dark

  19. #19
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    xxx
    Last edited by butryon; 10-05-2009 at 04:26 PM.
    ATV = fat A$$

  20. #20
    BMX:Our Shining Future
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    I feel a non sequiter coming on

    A Horse Is A Horse
    Of Course Of Course
    Unless It's Ed
    The Talking
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  21. #21
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    Visicypher,
    ya racing was not a good scene in Idaho this season. I did the cream puff in July and just a few others. I had planned on a few more but the cream puff at 8hrs left me with IT band issues Next season will be better. Wifes prego so I have had that stuff and some work things killing weekends. Boise had all the racing, did it go well? The turn outs seemed small. How did your season end up?
    Ryon
    ATV = fat A$$

  22. #22
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    Ryon-

    I saw that you did the Cream Puff. I've always wanted to do that one, but I don't think it will be in the cards. I didn't race at all this season. It didn't matter anyway. All the races I wanted to do were out of state. Oh yeah, I'm in Coeur d'Alene now. There are a few more ultras up here...and there is also the Canadian race scene.

    Anyway, I'm getting married next spring, and will be helping raise two children. Training will be hard as the kids take a lot of my time.
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

  23. #23
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    Are wheelchairs considered mechanized for wilderness purposes?

    anyone know?

  24. #24
    jalepenio jimenez
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    And...

    then there's all those electronic gizmos and gadgets that no self respecting white man would be without these days.

    Why, I believe you could carry a boom box through the FCW here in Idahoe blasting out your favorite noise, sharing your music with nature and there's nothing they could do to you, except maybe shoot you.

    A few solar panels carried in on your trusty steed and you could have a good ole back-country, head smashing, whiskey drinking, rifle sighting, free-for-all jam session back at hunting camp. And that would be just fine.

    Because electronics aren't mechanized.

    Ring...ring...hello. Ya, just a sec. It's for you.
    Last edited by mudflap; 10-07-2009 at 07:06 PM.
    I dig, chop, strangle, yank, stomp, annihilate, mutilate, eradicate, and FU goatheads

  25. #25
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    "Because electronics aren't mechanized." Most of them are, at least boom boxes etc. Think tape readers and cd readers.

    Again, I conclude logic has nothing to do with it
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

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