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  1. #1
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    X-Fusion Vector HLR coil - Can a shock be too good?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspen...ml#post9374093

    I didn't mention in the post to the shocks forum that my new X-Fusion Vector HLR coil is on my HD160.

    Using 650b wheels I did have to double the bottom travel limiting shims to 4mm total, because this shock has a very soft rubber bottom bumper allowing about 1/8 inch more usable shock shaft travel than other coil shocks commonly having a firmer bottom bumper.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X-Fusion Vector HLR coil - Can a shock be too good?-x-fusionvectorhlr-mojohd_trailside.jpg  


  2. #2
    meh
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    nice write up
    just got my first ride on my DWL tuned O2 RLX yesterday, and while it wasn't on a trail i ride much, it was noticeably better than the RP23...not enough time on it or as much expertise as you to do a write up like that though

  3. #3
    aka dan51
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    Is the Vector still kicking butt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    Is the Vector still kicking butt?
    Oh yea!

    It was so easy to dial in a very superior ride for my familiar local loops. I need to ride some other areas than my local loops, to get some different exposure, for more high speed and very rocky. Northstar, to do many repeated runs the same day.

    I recently added offset shock mounts, which using the same fork height, lowers the HD 160 BB height 1/4 inch to the HD140 height, and slacks the frame geometry about 1/2 degree. A big improvement since I ride 650b wheels that raise the axles, BB, and CG almost 1/2 inch. I had to add more shims to limit shock travel to 2.25 stroke and "only" 6 inch travel to avoid 650b tire to seat tube rub, but I still very rarely bottom travel. I'll be using a 26 inch rear wheel with 650b front for Northstar DH park to regain full 160mm travel and slack the geometry temporarily for that use.

    The new problem now is upgrading from my Lyrik u-turn coil fork to have damping quality more closely balancing with the X-Fusion Vector HRL coil quality. I use the u-turn coil of my Lyrik a lot to tune handling, frequently adjusting travel height around 135 to 150mm for local NorCal coastal trail conditions, raising to full 160mm height for steep downhills and very rocky deserts, high mountains, and DH bike park. It looks like my best option could be getting the Avalanche fork cartridge since the X-Fusion Vengeance HLR has only a huge 30mm drop 170mm 2 step air or fixed height coil that cannot safely adapt the u-turn coil from the Lyrik. I'm researching this problem now.

  5. #5
    the refurbished one
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    even better... ehm... lighter! ;)

    Last edited by hball; 06-17-2012 at 09:26 AM.
    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  6. #6
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    Do you guys feel the hlr is necessary, or would the rc be fine? Aside from the hsc adjustment they are the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    Do you guys feel the hlr is necessary, or would the rc be fine? Aside from the hsc adjustment they are the same thing.
    Yes the Vector RC coil and for sure with air spring is plenty for heavy duty trail riding. I'm only interested in coil suspension, and X-Fusion recommended the RC coil to me at first.

    The HLR has the reserve chamber air volume adjust and air pressure adjust, which give more options for limiting bottom out and ramp up rate. And the HSC is also a bottom travel adjustment that doesn't affect small bump compliance.

    I insisted I wanted the HLR's maximum adjustments, because I like to experiment with handling, and I change weight balance a lot on my HD with adjustable height u-turn fork and remote dropper seat, and use reduced travel with bottom limiting shock shims due to tire clearance to the seat tube with a 650b rear wheel, and will be swapping to a 26 inch rear wheel with 650b front for DH park use to get full travel, lower the rear making a very slack frame and steering trail geometry, effectively like having a 65 degree head angle with 26 inch wheels, but better rolling, braking power, and cornering traction with 650b.

    Also Ibis and DW recommend a coil shock having bottom travel air assist and "boost" damped adjustment. Although having ridden my HD for nearly a year on a Vanilla RC and VAN-R coil shocks, both with minimal bottom travel ramp up, I don't think there is any advantage for boost damping for trail riding with coil, but firmer and more rising rate air assist adjustment for a coil would provide added bottom out protection for big jump landings and DH park type frequent big hit uses.

    For trail riding, the HD for sure likes the minimum air pressure and max volume, the closest to a linear shock rate overall. The Vector RC coil most likely has a similar more linear, more plush deep travel accessible, reserve chamber tune.

    For DH park with more higher ride speed big hits and bigger jumps, I expect to be using a softer coil with deeper sag than my coil for trail, and adding air pressure and reducing the air chamber volume to increase ramp up below mid-travel will prevent harsh bottoming with the softer coil, allowing the spring to be softer than trail use and compression damping to remain rather fast and compliant for easy flow over the less than maximum hits.

  8. #8
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    Vector RC

    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    Do you guys feel the hlr is necessary, or would the rc be fine? Aside from the hsc adjustment they are the same thing.
    I have the Vector RC coil shock "custom" tuned by X Fusion on my HD and it is amazing! I decided to go with the RC over the HLR because I didn't want any type of bottom out support because I feel like the bike is already quite progressive. I also have a coil U turn Lyrik which now feels like it is lagging behind my RC coil. I have tried a bunch of different shocks including the stock rp23, X Fusion O2 RCX (much better than rp23), and Push tuned rp23. For me, the X Fusion RC is superior to the others I have tried.

  9. #9
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    I currently have my HD set up as a 140. I've been thinking about going to 160 and I'm wondering if I should be looking at the vector coil or air. It will still get the majority of use for trail riding but I also go to a lift serviced bike park (Highland) several times a year. As I recall, ibis said the frame is designed around an air shock but obviously many are having good luck with the coils. I am not as aggressive a rider as I was in my younger years but I've replaced big air and drops with higher speeds while keeping the rubber on the ground. I am definitely not a weight weenie (I weight 225 lbs so a few extra grams on the bike wont kill me) but I also don't want to add extra weight (coil) if there is no benefit to me. Anyway, until this thread I was thinking vector air with vengeance air or coil up front. Now I am throwing the coil rear into the mix. Any input is appreciated.

    Also, can I just say that these bikes ROCK! I have it set up as more of a trail bike now and I love it, but for better or for worse its in my nature to tinker with things. If not this season, I will definitely invest in a 650b set up for next year. It's such a versatile bike.

  10. #10
    aka dan51
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    Got my vector rc coil, then promptly went on a 9 day bike trip to bend, asland, and Tahoe. It took several rides to get it dialed in, but wow this thing rocks! I had a vivid mx tune from push and could never get it to feel right. The vector feels like I always wanted the vivid to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post

    I recently added offset shock mounts, which using the same fork height, lowers the HD 160 BB height 1/4 inch to the HD140 height, and slacks the frame geometry about 1/2 degree. A big improvement since I ride 650b wheels that raise the axles, BB, and CG almost 1/2 inch. I had to add more shims to limit shock travel to 2.25 stroke and "only" 6 inch travel to avoid 650b tire to seat tube rub, but I still very rarely bottom travel.
    Derby,
    Can you point me to more details on what this offset shock mount product is? Are there any downsides/compromises to doing this?

    I'm not going to change my shock out (RP23 on HD 160) but love the idea of a little slacker and lower, if it doesn't have other impacts. Would I need to shim with 26" wheels (currently Spec The Capitan 2.2 rear, also run Nobby Nic 2.4, Weirwolf 2.3 and Hans Dampf on occasion).

    Thanks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hball View Post
    Whats the vector air like and was there a DW specific tune done for it or are you riding a stock model?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    Got my vector rc coil, then promptly went on a 9 day bike trip to bend, asland, and Tahoe. It took several rides to get it dialed in, but wow this thing rocks! I had a vivid mx tune from push and could never get it to feel right. The vector feels like I always wanted the vivid to.
    Can you elaborate Dbug? What were you looking for that an Rp23 or the MX tune wasn't doing? I have a stock Vivid and its not too bad. Just heavy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    Can you elaborate Dbug? What were you looking for that an Rp23 or the MX tune wasn't doing? I have a stock Vivid and its not too bad. Just heavy
    It could be just a poor tune from push. I have tried contacting them to get some help dialing it in, or retuned but never heard back. So I got the xfusion and it rides better than the vivid mx I have.
    The vector is more responsive when flying through chunky stuff, and better small bump feel. No matter what I did, I could never get the vivid to feel right. I can't get the rebound slow enough on it either. Some of the knobs on the vivid are a pita to adjust. The HSC requires a pair of pliers, and the HSR requires a 2.5mm allen wrench.

    It may just come down to customer service. Had I heard back from push, I may still be riding it. Xfusion is local, and I see the guys at races and out on the local trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Derby,
    Can you point me to more details on what this offset shock mount product is? Are there any downsides/compromises to doing this?

    I'm not going to change my shock out (RP23 on HD 160) but love the idea of a little slacker and lower, if it doesn't have other impacts. Would I need to shim with 26" wheels (currently Spec The Capitan 2.2 rear, also run Nobby Nic 2.4, Weirwolf 2.3 and Hans Dampf on occasion).

    Thanks.
    With offset shock mount bushings, tire and shock clearances could be the downsides, my X-Fusion Vector coil shock end barely clears the downtube end, I had to shim the shock's bottom travel a lot using a 650b wheel. Also more pedal strikes with a lower BB height.

    I'll be measuring my HD160 tire clearance with offset bushings soon with a 26 inch wheel I've just laced up and trued, but I still need to mount a tire (will do soon and follow up here). I've built the 26 inch wheel for downhill park use with 650b front wheel for slacking the frame angles more and to regain full 160mm travel removing the shock bottom-out shims.

    Edit add:

    I mounted up my 26 inch DH park rear wheel mentioned in the last paragraph. And removed the coil and removed all the bottom travel limit shims needed for 650b clearance.

    So with the offset shock mount bushings lowering the BB 1/4 inch in my HD160, and a 26 x 2.35 Panaracer "Cedric Gracia All Condition AM" tire, there is a good size gap of tire clearance to the seat tube at hard bottom travel, about 3/8 inch or 10mm.

    That's in my 2nd gen HD160 center frame with fixed front derailleur mount and 4mm added seat tube tire clearance. So with this size tire the early HD center frame should also clear with 1/4 inch gap.

    I got these offset bushings, 2 sets, for both ends of the shock. Shipping took nearly 3 weeks from Poland. These are well made, accurate tolerances, no slop.
    Offset Shock bushings | Mounting Hardware | Mount kit | All frames | Proshox | eBay

    There are other options from England, one is made from titanium. See this Mountain Bike Magazine blog: Steamer Industries | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com
    Last edited by derby; 07-07-2012 at 02:46 PM.

  16. #16
    the refurbished one
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    Whats the vector air like and was there a DW specific tune done for it or are you riding a stock model?
    its just like the coil.
    after a monarch plus, a vivid air and the ccdb air (which was the biggest disappointment), this shock just makes the HD riding like a dream.
    its the stock shock because the DWtune isnt available here at the moment. i will update but honestly i couldnt really imagine the shock can work any better.
    Sokrates is dead, Galilei is dead, Newton is dead, Einstein is dead, Pantani is dead and i am feeling sick too.

  17. #17
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    Cheers Hball

    thats what I was looking for, someone who has ridden a few. My only issue now is servicing downunder (NZ).
    At moment I am just waiting to hear back from a seller in the UK that has them otherwise I may try X Fusion direct as there is no dealer here

  18. #18
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    what was wrong with the cane creek double barrel air?

  19. #19
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    Nice review.

    My problem is I want to run my HD at 140 but X-F dont offer a 200x50 version.

    However I have read it's possible to get away with using the 200x57 and still use the 140 limbo chips.

    Or should I just use a CCDB air or coil ? at the correct size.

    My riding doesnt involve big air and drops, but I'm a bit of a clyedsdale weighing 110 kg/220 Lbs, hence wanting to swap out the RP23. Not ridden the bike in anger yet so was hoping to change the shock so I can sell to re-coup some of the cost of a replacement.

    Feedback appreciated

  20. #20
    meh
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    if you decide to go XF, check out the tuned O2, better than the RP23 in every way, Im 200lbs geared... but I def understand wanting the Vector, its what I wanted until i realized it would only fit the HD160 and was talked into an O2, had it been offered it would be what i was riding

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by atibob View Post
    Nice review.

    My problem is I want to run my HD at 140 but X-F dont offer a 200x50 version.

    However I have read it's possible to get away with using the 200x57 and still use the 140 limbo chips.

    Or should I just use a CCDB air or coil ? at the correct size.

    My riding doesnt involve big air and drops, but I'm a bit of a clyedsdale weighing 110 kg/220 Lbs, hence wanting to swap out the RP23. Not ridden the bike in anger yet so was hoping to change the shock so I can sell to re-coup some of the cost of a replacement.

    Feedback appreciated
    I used a 7.875x2.25 (200x57) Fox Vanilla RC in my HD140 with 650b wheels for almost a year with no modification and no rub on my late model 2011 HD (with the 4mm added seat tube clearance for big tires and direct mount front der). There would be close to 1/2 inch seat tube clearance with most if not all 26 inch wheels fitting between the stays in the HD140 with a 7.875x2.25 (200x57) shock.

    I'm sure ibis and DW would have known when designed that the longer stroke could could clear an HD140, but wanted to differentiate the shorter travel version further in travel from the HD160 to market the HD to more XC riders.

  22. #22
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    Sounds promising, especially like the idea of the bottom out control on the HLR coil version particularly on a linear bike like the mojo.

    Has anyone tried the vector coil and the vector air ? cant decide which would be best and would either of these better something like the Elka which is also on my shortlist ?

    Initially want to use it for a weeks riding in the Swiss Alps so the extra weight of the coil may not be too much of a factor.

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