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  1. #1
    TJT
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    Why not recycle suspension links??

    The suspension links on the Ibis Mojo are replaceable, with the bearings pre-inserted into the link itself. A good idea I think - anything reducing maintenance time is a good thing.

    BUT, it seems a bit wasteful. To throw away a perfectly good link just because the (replaceable) bearings are shot. I am not talking from a $$$ standpoint, as the replacement links are cheap. Instead, I think it just seems like a waste of natural resources.

    Why not have a return policy?? This is my suggestion....

    Ibis can sell a new linkage (for the people who care about a shinier new one), or a cheaper recycled/refurbished link with brand new bearings. The old one may not look new and shiny but will perform identically.

    When your bearings need changing, you send in the whole link to Ibis. They take some measurements to ensure it is not deformed in any way (unlikely), and put new bearings in. They sell it at a slightly cheaper price (but have not had the costs of making a new part). In exchange for sending your link, Ibis give you a $5 (or whatever!) voucher redeemable on their store. As mentioned above, you can choose to buy a new link or a refurbished one.

    Customer gets cheaper link replacement, and the warm fuzzy feeling from doing something morally good. Ibis sells slightly discounted links, but have only had the cost of the new bearings themselves, so should make slightly more money. Everyone's a winner!

    I am interested to see what the riders and Ibis owners think.

  2. #2
    flow where ever you go
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    I agree. It would be nice to recycle the links.

    I like how easy it is to replace the links, but would rather have an easy way to replace the bearings and continue using the linkage.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  3. #3
    www.derbyrims.com
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    You or your local bike shop can replace the pivot bearings. They are standard sizes and look easy to replace.

    Anyone wear out pivot bearings yet?

  4. #4
    It's the axle
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    There are a couple of flaws in the idea. Although it's great thinking. I'm not sure whether they make it unfeasible or not.

    There would be two extra shipping costs.
    Labor for removing and installing bearings.

    I'm pretty sure their price is the result of buying 100 links at a time. Shipping is dramatically reduced on a per part basis due to that.

    I think the bottom line is it's not economically feasible unless the owner does the bearing replacement themselves.

  5. #5
    Trail Rider
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    I bought a full set of links,hardware...

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    You or your local bike shop can replace the pivot bearings. They are standard sizes and look easy to replace.

    Anyone wear out pivot bearings yet?
    I also ordered a full set of bearings(Enduro) to replace the ones in the links, I replace. I'm set for a while, unfortunately I broke my humerus and can't ride for 6 months.
    [size=4]Don[/size]

  6. #6
    flow where ever you go
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    ....
    Anyone wear out pivot bearings yet?
    I replaced the lower linkage when I found that one small and one large bearing was shot.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  7. #7
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    I replaced the lower linkage when I found that one small and one large bearing was shot.
    ding-ding, ding-ding, ding-ding (bicycle bell sound) We have a winner!

    This first recorded failure of a Mojo pivot bearing took almost one year of use.

    At what mileage (approximately) did the bearing failure become noticeable?

    Was it the drive side bearings?

    noshortcuts, You frequently do some large jumps right? And as I remember you broke your Hite-Rite type seat post from such intended use of your Mojo.

    That's about the frequency my old Tracer's main pivot bearing would last. Sounds like the Mojo bearings will hold up as well as most other suspension bikes.

    PS: Quatro, so sorry to hear about your broken bone. 6 months recovery time? (I'd be suicidal!)

  8. #8
    flow where ever you go
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    ding-ding, ding-ding, ding-ding (bicycle bell sound) We have a winner!

    This first recorded failure of a Mojo pivot bearing took almost one year of use.

    At what mileage (approximately) did the bearing failure become noticeable?

    Was it the drive side bearings?

    noshortcuts, You frequently do some large jumps right? And as I remember you broke your Hite-Rite type seat post from such intended use of your Mojo.

    That's about the frequency my old Tracer's main pivot bearing would last. Sounds like the Mojo bearings will hold up as well as most other suspension bikes.

    PS: Quatro, so sorry to hear about your broken bone. 6 months recovery time? (I'd be suicidal!)
    I think you've got me confused with someone else.

    I don't do many large jumps and never broke a seatpost.

    As for your other questions. It was 6 months of frequent use (but don't know the mileage) for the failure, BUT, I only noticed it because I took the bike apart for some Ti bolt upgrades. It was one bearing from each side of the lower pivot. A small on one side and a large on the other. They were like gravel. I'll check again in 6 months to see if this is "normal" or a fluke.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  9. #9
    It's the axle
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    That's not normal.

    Bearings are highly susceptible to mounting imperfections. That includes proper alignment and side loads due to improper spacing.

    Here is one main source of bearing failure that I've found. The main movement of the swingarm is confined to a very small displacement that revolves around nominal riding. Like just pedaling down a smooth path. What happens is the bearing surface takes on an irregular shape in that small area of where the ball and race meet. If the bearing were simply making complete revolutions, it would last a long long time. But that tiny movement exaggerates wear. I noticed this on my NRS about every thousand miles. The swing arm, when free, would have a notchy feeling right where the majority of the riding occurs. So I simply pushed out the bearings and rotated them a quarter turn. I got the equivalent of many lifetimes out of them that way. I can't even guess what caused bearings to end up like gravel. That's serious failure. Could be one of a dozen things.

    It'll be fun to see how bearing lives turn out.

  10. #10
    TJT
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    It was only an idea, not a business case! Obviously a business-case would need to be drawn up to see if it was feasible.

    Postage costs - yes, you're (half!) right. I think there would be ONE extra set of postage costs, because Ibis -> customer postage is already going on.
    Labour for inserting bearings - I don't think so. This needs to be done anyway with the brand new linkages. Ibis probably don't do this themselves, but there's no reason the old linkages couldn't be mailed directly to the link suppliers.

    Ibis owners - what do you think?

    (edit: sorry - I was replying to Gregg K)

  11. #11
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Very good bearing life for mine so far

    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    I think you've got me confused with someone else.

    I don't do many large jumps and never broke a seatpost.

    As for your other questions. It was 6 months of frequent use (but don't know the mileage) for the failure, BUT, I only noticed it because I took the bike apart for some Ti bolt upgrades. It was one bearing from each side of the lower pivot. A small on one side and a large on the other. They were like gravel. I'll check again in 6 months to see if this is "normal" or a fluke.
    After your discovery of gravely bearings I ordered the lower bearing assembly to be ready for the maintenance.

    My bike has 8 of my 10 months of ownership of frequent riding including many sloppy muddy Nor Cal rides.

    Yesterday I disassembled all the links and found only one bearing with very noticeable race and/or ball indexing ("gravely" feel). It was still tight and quite usable but had a noticeable binding at finger pressure at 180 degree intervals when rotated.

    I've run full suspension for 10 years now and usually the drive side wears quickest. But the non-drive side larger bearing was the only one that had what felt like this rotational binding.

    I'm guessing the large non-drive bearing wore more quickly because of the asymmetrical swingarm mounting alignment. The swingarm triangle is hung about 1/2 inch to the non-drive side. Also the rear is triangulated only on the non-drive side and binds the suspension a little bit at bottomout . On my bike I can remove the shock and cycle the suspension and can feel the geometry binding moderately near bottomout when the upper links are aimed at the lower link. I must cycle past the binding point to remove the left side upper link. Due to the nature of 4-pivot linkage, mechanical binding might be difficult to eliminate completely in production manufacturing when 2 pivots alight with a 3rd pivot. So Iím guessing it is normal for slight binding at bottomout for every Mojo(?).

    The other large bearing had only the beginning of indexing wear (gravely feel) and should have been good for at least another 6 months if not longer.

    None of the bearings were loose or "sloppy" at all.

    All of the small bearings felt smooth and easy to rotate and should last for at least 2 years at this rate.

    I replaced the lower assembly. And I'll be buying two large bearings to replace the one noticeably worn bearing and the other that is just beginning to index in my spare assembly.

    I've normally run my suspension bikes until there was noticeable suspension slop, usually 1 year on Horst links drive side (Intense Tracer) bearing or (Litespeed Obed/AMP B3)bushings, and a much longer interval on monopivots (actually I never wore out my Santa Cruz Superlight bearings in 3 years for frequent riding).

    I'm sure I could have ridden my original bearings with indexing unnoticed for at least another 6 months if not longer.

    Also I see that the OEM bearings are not "MAX" type bearings. These have ball carriers. MAX type have no carriers separting the balls, but do have more balls to fill the gap. There is a theory that more balls im a given size bearing wear slower. But there is also evidence that balls without carriers rub each other and actually wear faster. I have used both carrier and MAX type bearing in my Tracer and found no difference in durability, perhaps even shorter bearing life with the MAX type. I'll be ordering the non-MAX carrier type to replace mine in the future. Or just be lazy and buy the low cost OEM link assemblies.

    So in conclusion, I consider the Mojo bearing wear at least average in durability for all designs of full suspension, and well above average for 4-bar types.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJT
    It was only an idea, not a business case! Obviously a business-case would need to be drawn up to see if it was feasible.

    Postage costs - yes, you're (half!) right. I think there would be ONE extra set of postage costs, because Ibis -> customer postage is already going on.
    Labour for inserting bearings - I don't think so. This needs to be done anyway with the brand new linkages. Ibis probably don't do this themselves, but there's no reason the old linkages couldn't be mailed directly to the link suppliers.

    Ibis owners - what do you think?

    (edit: sorry - I was replying to Gregg K)
    I'm in agreement with Gregg K. For the very reasonable price Ibis offers, I'd rather just replace the whole assembly. As for having Ibis re-use the linkages, by the time you've got the old linkage going back to Ibis (packaging, fuel, time), and then flown back to China (more packaging, fuel, time), you may very well be wasting more resources than by just replacing the old ones with the new. Also, the old linkages would have to be re-checked for damage, alignment, etc, prior to removing the old bearings and installing a new set. And then who is going to what to pay more for a used linkage as surely this is more costly than simply offering a new ready-to-go unit? I'd think that if a owner is convicted about wasting the aluminum, the best way would be to replace the bearings at home.

    Just another Ibis owner's thoughts...
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  13. #13
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    Recycling

    Hello from Ibis!

    We have been thinking along the same lines. It does seem like a waste to throw a good lower link into recycling (you don't have to put it in the trash) when it's still functional.
    We have plenty of bearings if you feel like changing them out. Just give us a call or an email and we'll get some out to you. The price will be reasonable. (inexpensive) We don't have tools or instructions for changing the bearings at this stage, so you're on your own. It's no biggie if you are mechanically inclined and have a few tools. It is a light press fit and gets retained with loctite (probably optional will no ill effects), so you can usually get them out with minimal persuasion.

    Regarding the bearings getting notchy, you're right, it's because they barely rotate and sometimes they do get brinelled I think is the term.
    It does not seem to affect the function of the suspension. That is, there is no noticable friction or play in the system. The only way you can tell is to take it apart and feel by hand.
    The trick about changing the bearing position a little and keeping it going is a good one. You can pull the seals off the bearings and re-grease as well. That is really easy to do, you just need a needle or one of those dentist picks.

    I have about 7500 miles on the first test bike with quite a few hours in the rain and have been checking the bearings from time to time. A couple are notchy, but no noise, play or noticable friction. I ran one side with no bearing shields to accelerate the corrosion.
    The prototype hardware on this bike (without hard ano) is destroyed or at least corroded and worn. The parts we use in production seem like they are going to last forever. You take them out to check them after months of use and they look like almost new.

    Take care,

    Hans

  14. #14
    TJT
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    Thanks for the reply, Hans. As I mentioned above, it was an idea. The only people with access to the numbers are you guys, so only you can work out if it would be financially viable.

    Personally, I think it would be worth investigating, though.

  15. #15
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    Dude he just said he has replacement bearings available. Press that schit in yourself. Be a man.

  16. #16
    TJT
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    Maybe I should have made this clear at the beginning, although I don't see what difference it makes... I don't own a Mojo. I would love to, and when I have that kind of $$$ available I will certainly test-ride it.

    The reason I posted is exactly as I explained at the beginning - it just seems wasteful to get rid of something which works perfectly well. I doubt that many people will bother pressing in new bearings themselves. I probably would, for what its worth.

  17. #17
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    Glad to see someone taking matters into their own hands (pressing the bearings in yourself).

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