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  1. #1
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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I love the SL-R, having previously been on the Mojo , but could not get myself to buy the HD-R 650b ( and I was all ready to splurge - so I got the nomad instead to get some thing significantly different from the SLR and more down hill oriented).
    The HDR is a great choice for someone who wants the 26" as it has the additional advantage of a 650b option, but to me it does not feel like the right choice as the dedicated 650b bike.


    So I am waiting.. I test rode the bronson, in comparison with the HDR-650 and I honestly prefer the DW-Link. To me the bronson just shows that 150mm can be built to ~5lbs, so I am waiting for Ibis to release either a 650b 140-150mm DW link @ 5lbs , or a 650b 160mm 6lbs DW link .


    Patiently waiting.. CC is ready... just say when

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    I will be second on the list for a dedicated 275 160 bike

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    I'm just looking for someting to eventually replace the HD, whether its 650b or not I don't care. If its less travel I'd like 650, in fact that might be the ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I love the SL-R, having previously been on the Mojo , but could not get myself to buy the HD-R 650b ( and I was all ready to splurge - so I got the nomad instead to get some thing significantly different from the SLR and more down hill oriented).
    The HDR is a great choice for someone who wants the 26" as it has the additional advantage of a 650b option, but to me it does not feel like the right choice as the dedicated 650b bike.


    So I am waiting.. I test rode the bronson, in comparison with the HDR-650 and I honestly prefer the DW-Link. To me the bronson just shows that 150mm can be built to ~5lbs, so I am waiting for Ibis to release either a 650b 140-150mm DW link @ 5lbs , or a 650b 160mm 6lbs DW link .


    Patiently waiting.. CC is ready... just say when
    I love my HDR650, why don't you consider it a "real" 650B?

    you say it's a feeling.......uncertain what you mean by that.

  5. #5
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    perception might be a better word.

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    I really like the ride of my HD. Sorry to say, the HDR is simply a bandaid approach to 650b. 130 650b? Why? This has all been said before actually. I mean 130mm is less travel than the SL or SLR yet HDR weighs a pound more.

    HDR should be redesigned from the ground up.
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    Does the HDR in 650b mode not ride well? Just curious cause i've been considering it

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    I am looking @the HDR because it has 130mm of travel. I want a stiff stout frame that I can ride as hard as I like. After having some 5lb carbon frames fail on me, I am looking for something that I can ride for a few seasons and not worry about. I use my bike for everything from Enduro racing to XC after work racing to locals. I like having one bike and this one is on the top of my list. Hoping to test ride one soon.

  9. #9
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    It rides well, but it is overbuilt for the travel and the BB is 14"+ in 275/147 mode.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    It rides well, but it is overbuilt for the travel and the BB is 14"+ in 275 mode.
    Overbuilt is perfect for me but 14" BB is a no go. I was using the 13.5 that was off the website. Must have measured w/ 1.95's on it. LOL....

  11. #11
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    I mispoke and was thinking of the 147 conversion. 13.5" is more accurate.

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    I thought bikeco claims that the 147 conversion has a lower BB than a stock 130?

  13. #13
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    I have measured and it is not...

    Nothing against Bikeco, I just got my Pivot Mach 6 from them.

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    Odd, the picture they posted seemed pretty convincing, do you think that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison? What were the measurements that you took?


    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?-998532_10151704250443276_1298466470_n.jpg

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    Third.

  16. #16
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    FWIW those bikes look to have different tires

  17. #17
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    My HD-R 650b is set up with a 150mm Pike, a great match for the 130mm rear end. Climbs awesome, bombs the downhills. 13.5" BB. Travel is between the SC 5010 and Bronson, mine climbs better than the 5010, descends better than the bronson.

    Waiting, like resistance, is futile when an awesome bike is ready to ride.
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  18. #18
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    I'd rather have a 145 rear HD with a 150 Pike with a 13.5BB. the high bb and only 130mm rear travel just doesn't do it for me, close, but not close enough. the HDR at 130 is not a bad bike and is pretty cool for not having to retool a whole new bike, just doesn't seem like an upgrade from my current HD. I think everyone who is screaming "bandaid bike" already has a HD and wants to upgrade to something. If I didn't have a HD already and really wanted a 650 bike I'd do the 130 HDR 650.

  19. #19
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    I'd be very interested too. The more I ride my HD the more I really like it. Especially after installing a -1 degree angleset. My other 2 bikes are not getting much attention lately. I would love to try/see a newly designed 150mm HDR 27.5 with 66.5 degree head angle and shortish stays and 13.5" BB that weighs around 6 lbs.

  20. #20
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    66 is too slack for most trails, and I doubt if you'll ever see an Ibis with such angles, not really in their design/style forte

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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Waiting, like resistance, is futile when an awesome bike is ready to ride.
    This.

    I rode the sh!t out of my HD 160 and loved it. Now riding the crap out of my HDR 650b and loving it.

    I was wondering if I'd miss the bit of travel... Nope, don't miss it. This bike is Crazy Fun.
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  22. #22
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    Stealth cable routing to add to the dedicated 650b HD list of wants.

  23. #23
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    Funnily enough I wasn't over-joyed with the HDR specs when it was first announced. Biggest gripe was probably the lack of Stealth routing!

    Still, sold my beloved SL-R and ordered a HDR 650b...I am chuffed beyond believe. It IS a "REAL" 650b
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Odd, the picture they posted seemed pretty convincing, do you think that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison? What were the measurements that you took?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a lose/lose thread. The HDR will never satisfy everyone, like SP mentioned already many of the HD crowd see it as a fail since its basically what it is a "revised" HD. IMO it shouldnt be viewed negatively/picked apart b/c its not a whole new bike in fact I'd say the opposite an appreciate the fact that they tweaked/refined the HD (and can I say how much I love the fact that they have the retro-ft swing arm on the way!). IMO IBIS hould leave the HDR alone and examine the feasibility of developing a "Bigger" bike in the 150-160mm range 650b specific. If I was in the market for a "real" 27.5 bike the HDR would still be at the top of my list due to ride quality and versatility. As for the bike above, what is it trying to prove? Got more details on that? Both 27.5? Tires? The HD140 looks to have the lower BBH by about a 1/2", same as the 140/160 difference (My 27.5 HD 140 has about a 13.65" BB).

  25. #25
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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    66 is too slack for most trails, and I doubt if you'll ever see an Ibis with such angles, not really in their design/style forte
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders. It will be interesting to see what ibis ends up designing. One other thought is increasing the reach a little for a given size. Not Yeti SB style but 1/2 " or so.


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I just assumed my next bike would be an Ibis 150mm 650B bike. Then the HDR came out and I had to recalibrate. I'll be getting a new bike in a few months and probably won't be in the market for 3-5yrs, but when I am I'll check in and see what's up with Ibis.

    I like a lot about the company and their bikes, but not enough to comprise what I am after when I am spending top dollar. Especially with a bunch of great long travel 650B bikes in the market for 2014.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders. It will be interesting to see what ibis ends up designing. One other thought is increasing the reach a little for a given size. Not Yeti SB style but 1/2 " or so.


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    The Ibis bikes are not low slacked out monster truck bikes. They are not gonna make a bike like that, sorry. 66HA is gonna steer sluggish and only be "better" on steeper trails, these bikes are meant to be all arounders. Its a 6" bike that feels like a 5" inch bike, pedals awesome, flicks great, etc etc. Making an even slacker bike does not fit the Ibis forte at all. Just my opinion.

  28. #28
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    I would like to see an HD Ripley, 145mm travel, steep seat angle, longer reach...

  29. #29
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    This thread should be renamed to when's Ibis going to make a slacker longer travel 650b bike. Even if they made one and I'm sure it would be popular, the current HDR likely would still out sell it, as there are more people who want 130-140mm bikes than 150-160mm bikes.

    Both are good travel bikes, but it's a just a matter of fact that mid travel bikes sell more than long travel bikes. I bet at some point there will be both from Ibis.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust in garage

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Both are good travel bikes, but it's a just a matter of fact that mid travel bikes sell more than long travel bikes. I bet at some point there will be both from Ibis.
    +1 - there is nothing wrong with the HDR if you are after the bike that it is. And there are great 150+mm FS 650b bikes available in 2014 for folks that don't want a HDR.

    I'm sure Ibis will invest in new moulds for a longer travel 650B bike at some point when it makes finanical sense for them to do so.
    Safe riding,

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  31. #31
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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000 View Post
    The HDR will never satisfy everyone, like SP mentioned already many of the HD crowd see it as a fail since its basically what it is a "revised" HD. IMO it shouldnt be viewed negatively/picked apart b/c its not a whole new bike in fact I'd say the opposite an appreciate the fact that they tweaked/refined the HD (and can I say how much I love the fact that they have the retro-ft swing arm on the way!).
    YES. It's an evolution and refinement of the HD platform, just like the SL-R is to the SL.

    I don't get all the knashing of teeth over this bike. Ibis has been super clear on how they got to the HD-R. Riders were putting 27.5 kits on the HD and it made for a great riding bike. Ibis had new production methods they wanted to apply to the HD and they put two and two together.

    Is the HD-R a "brand new" or "true 27.5" bike? Depends on your definition, but bottom line, it's the HD platform taken forward.

    Does it check all your boxes? I have no idea, but I choose my bikes based on how they ride not on which numbers they hit on paper. I leave that for when I'm feverishly measuring d!ck size at the trailhead.

    All I know is that the HD-R rides f*cking incredible.
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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Even if they made one and I'm sure it would be popular, the current HDR likely would still out sell it, as there are more people who want 130-140mm bikes than 150-160mm bikes.
    And this! I got the HD 160 after riding an SL for a few years and it was purely based on a few rides and demos. No way did I feel I "needed" 160 travel, but sh!t it was fun! Do I "need" that travel? Who knows?! Sure, there are spots I ride that make use of it, but also plenty more that don't even come close.

    There are riders out there who can really, truly justify longer travel on a regular basis, but for 90% of the riders out there 120-140 is more then enough to have fun, go fast etc.

    Now, wants and needs are two different things and if you read MTBR, PB, Bike Mag etc, you're always going to feel you Need that latest whatever with whatever.

    Anyway, apologies if I'm getting too ranty.
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    +1 - I'm in

    Need to rename the thread to ... "what are all the existing HD owners waiting for in their next frame"
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Need to rename the thread to ... "what are all the existing HD owners waiting for in their next frame"
    160mm of travel + eccentric pivot links + shorter-than-HD chainstays

    Nothing wrong with the HD-R but I want a long legged 650b bike.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders.
    I must be odd, I quite like my 650b 160 HD with -1deg angleset, running a 65 deg HA. It steers just fine, climbs chunk like a goat and descents like a champ.

  36. #36
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    Nope sorry 66 and slacker head angles aren't appropriate for most trails just ask Yody. Oh and you only need 120mm of travel just ask Benja.

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    That is my HDR on the right the bike on the left is a 160mm 26" HD. The picture was to show that the BB is lower on the 148 HDR then on a regular 26" HD.

  38. #38
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    Other bikes aren't Mojo HD, if you want a min DH bike then yes throw coil front and rear a 180mm fork, angleset, etc. I'm sure it will DH just great but will suck balls on anything flat or uphill. Its great that the HD is capable of being built this way but this is not how they are sold or spec'd stock. The ideal behind this bike is not DH bike. Its science that the slacker you make the bike the less PUMP you will get from it, the more it will wheelie on climbs, will corner worse on anything other than steep, and so on. My comment is that if they make a new HD, lets be realistic, Ibis has a bit of a style of building bikes and Mini DH All Mountain Machines is not really it. Just being realistic here, I know a lot of peeps like bikes that are good at runnning into things, but thats not what these bikes are about.

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    Yep, I agree I ran my HD 160 with a 170 Marz RC3 and a Roco 2.25 stroke shock with 140 chips, it was a mini dowhill bike close to 66*HA and very poppy and fun, but I was faster and more efficent on most everything in 160/160. It was the perfect balance for me but whatever works for me stinks for others and visa versa. That is the true strenght of the HD its versitility.

    I dig everyones creativity with the many options, good work guys!! keep it up..

  40. #40
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    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdsdad View Post
    That is my HDR on the right the bike on the left is a 160mm 26" HD. The picture was to show that the BB is lower on the 148 HDR then on a regular 26" HD.
    How have you like the 148 BikeCo setup?
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  41. #41
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    However you look at it, the HDR is not for everyone looking into 650b. But it does offer the versatility of going 26" or 650b, which may be nice for some. But if you're looking for a full-on longer travel 650b rig, this misses the mark for most (Note: "Most" not all). Some may want the stiffness of the HD frame and want less travel.

    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
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    I was waiting for the next HD, whatever it was going to be. Been riding a Mojo SL since '08. As long as it took for the Ripley to come out my hope was that a next generation HD would come out with eccentric links, 150mm, 650b, and maybe slightly longer in the top tube. I'm guessing (hoping) Ibis has something like this in the works. No way they go forward with only the Ripley having eccentric links. I expected the "next" HD to be as game changing as the original Mojo and the Ripley. I only buy one bike every 4-5 years. After mulling over the HD-R for a while I eventually pulled the trigger on a Bronson C. I love DW but have ridden various friends VPP bikes and enjoyed them. I'm stoked as hell to get the Bronson and try something different, but had the HD-R come out as I described I would've ordered it on the spot, no reviews required.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    However you look at it, the HDR is not for everyone looking into 650b. But it does offer the versatility of going 26" or 650b, which may be nice for some. But if you're looking for a full-on longer travel 650b rig, this misses the mark for most (Note: "Most" not all). Some may want the stiffness of the HD frame and want less travel.

    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
    They moved the seat tube WAY forward. The FD mount is actually a tab that extends rearward about 2 cm. Very creative solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
    I went to my LBS to buy some small parts today. They have the latest and greatest bikes from quite a few brands including Pivot, Ibis, C'dale, Rocky Mountain and Kona. They had three M6s in stock, they are extremely sweet bikes and I could not believe how much clearance for big tires there is in the rear. I was told they were selling better than hotcakes. Everyone in the know wants the M6. I finally saw the Ripley, too. What a nice bike, the design is so clean and simple. I surely hope Ibis is working on a 650b long travel bike with eccentric links, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    How have you like the 148 BikeCo setup?
    I love it, it's a phenomenal bike. I come from a moto/Dh background and I feel that it's fine for my now All mountain adventures (I'm in my late 30's now). The only thing that I liked better on my older Bike-Co 26" HD was the Marzocchi coil fork that I had on it, I think it was a better fork then the Fox 34 that I have on my HDR now but that's the only thing.

    I have thrown everything that I can at the HDR and it handles it with no problems, But it has more travel then the stock HD though. If I had to do it all over again and Bike-co didn't offer the travel upgrade I would still buy the HDR (with a Fox float X or a custom tuned bike-co shock).

    FWIW I have owned a SC Bronson, SC 5010, Pivot Mach 6, and a Turner Burner, I don't feel that the added travel gives any of these bikes an advantage over the HDR in 130 mode. All of the bikes mentioned are excellent bikes but the HDR is my go to bike of all these and is the only one that is still in my garage except for the Pivot but I'm getting ready to sell it as well. For me the travel isn't as big of an issue as much as the geometry is and the Ibis has been my favorite over all of the other bikes mentioned above. After all it's 90% rider 10% bike right?

  46. #46
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    moto,

    Was the 2.25 a 7.875 e2e?

    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    Yep, I agree I ran my HD 160 with a 170 Marz RC3 and a Roco 2.25 stroke shock with 140 chips, it was a mini dowhill bike close to 66*HA and very poppy and fun, but I was faster and more efficent on most everything in 160/160. It was the perfect balance for me but whatever works for me stinks for others and visa versa. That is the true strenght of the HD its versitility.

    I dig everyones creativity with the many options, good work guys!! keep it up..

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    They already have one, its called the Pivot Mach 6.

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    I see "eccentric links" on a lot of people's wish lists, but it's not obvious to me why you would want them unless they enable some other feature of the bike, like weight, geometry, etc. it stands to reason that longer travel requires longer links, and at some point, that makes the eccentric design prohibitive. If you need eccentrics to achieve the right kinematics or geometry, then go for it, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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    @cdsdad. Could you compare pivot m6 to HDR please. What Made you go with HDR ?
    Last edited by Ilyam3; 01-13-2014 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyam3 View Post
    @cdsdad. Could you compare pivot m6 to HDR please. What Made you go with HDR ?
    To be honest it's a Coke or Pepsi type decision. The Pivot is a great bike, the HDR is great as well. To me it just came down to the fact that I have ridden Ibis bikes for a long time and I have never had one that I didn't like, so that is why I'm sticking with the HDR, not because it is far superior to the Pivot because it's not, and vice versa. It just came down to which company and geometry that I liked better.

    I used to race expert DH a while back and I can push these bikes pretty hard. Neither of them had any issues with what I threw at it (keep in mind that I have a 147mm HDR built by the Bike-Co with custom suspension), the same with climbing for the most part. If I had to pick one of the two I would say the Ibis is a little bit better climber but not by much. In my opinion I don't think if I had the stock 130mm set-up that my mind would change, I would however drop the stock shock on the HDR and put a more aggressive shock to unleash the bikes true potential like the Fox floatX, RS monarch plus, or the Cane Creek DB air.

    Buy which one that you like better because I don't think one is more superior compared to the other, I will sell you my Pivot if you are leaning that direction

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