Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 149
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: heatstroke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,061

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I love the SL-R, having previously been on the Mojo , but could not get myself to buy the HD-R 650b ( and I was all ready to splurge - so I got the nomad instead to get some thing significantly different from the SLR and more down hill oriented).
    The HDR is a great choice for someone who wants the 26" as it has the additional advantage of a 650b option, but to me it does not feel like the right choice as the dedicated 650b bike.


    So I am waiting.. I test rode the bronson, in comparison with the HDR-650 and I honestly prefer the DW-Link. To me the bronson just shows that 150mm can be built to ~5lbs, so I am waiting for Ibis to release either a 650b 140-150mm DW link @ 5lbs , or a 650b 160mm 6lbs DW link .


    Patiently waiting.. CC is ready... just say when

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    I will be second on the list for a dedicated 275 160 bike

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    I'm just looking for someting to eventually replace the HD, whether its 650b or not I don't care. If its less travel I'd like 650, in fact that might be the ticket.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I love the SL-R, having previously been on the Mojo , but could not get myself to buy the HD-R 650b ( and I was all ready to splurge - so I got the nomad instead to get some thing significantly different from the SLR and more down hill oriented).
    The HDR is a great choice for someone who wants the 26" as it has the additional advantage of a 650b option, but to me it does not feel like the right choice as the dedicated 650b bike.


    So I am waiting.. I test rode the bronson, in comparison with the HDR-650 and I honestly prefer the DW-Link. To me the bronson just shows that 150mm can be built to ~5lbs, so I am waiting for Ibis to release either a 650b 140-150mm DW link @ 5lbs , or a 650b 160mm 6lbs DW link .


    Patiently waiting.. CC is ready... just say when
    I love my HDR650, why don't you consider it a "real" 650B?

    you say it's a feeling.......uncertain what you mean by that.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: heatstroke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,061
    perception might be a better word.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,529
    I really like the ride of my HD. Sorry to say, the HDR is simply a bandaid approach to 650b. 130 650b? Why? This has all been said before actually. I mean 130mm is less travel than the SL or SLR yet HDR weighs a pound more.

    HDR should be redesigned from the ground up.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    258
    Does the HDR in 650b mode not ride well? Just curious cause i've been considering it

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    60
    I am looking @the HDR because it has 130mm of travel. I want a stiff stout frame that I can ride as hard as I like. After having some 5lb carbon frames fail on me, I am looking for something that I can ride for a few seasons and not worry about. I use my bike for everything from Enduro racing to XC after work racing to locals. I like having one bike and this one is on the top of my list. Hoping to test ride one soon.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    It rides well, but it is overbuilt for the travel and the BB is 14"+ in 275/147 mode.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    It rides well, but it is overbuilt for the travel and the BB is 14"+ in 275 mode.
    Overbuilt is perfect for me but 14" BB is a no go. I was using the 13.5 that was off the website. Must have measured w/ 1.95's on it. LOL....

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    I mispoke and was thinking of the 147 conversion. 13.5" is more accurate.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    450
    I thought bikeco claims that the 147 conversion has a lower BB than a stock 130?

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    I have measured and it is not...

    Nothing against Bikeco, I just got my Pivot Mach 6 from them.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    450
    Odd, the picture they posted seemed pretty convincing, do you think that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison? What were the measurements that you took?


    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?-998532_10151704250443276_1298466470_n.jpg

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    82
    Third.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    FWIW those bikes look to have different tires

  17. #17
    Kaj
    Kaj is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,165
    My HD-R 650b is set up with a 150mm Pike, a great match for the 130mm rear end. Climbs awesome, bombs the downhills. 13.5" BB. Travel is between the SC 5010 and Bronson, mine climbs better than the 5010, descends better than the bronson.

    Waiting, like resistance, is futile when an awesome bike is ready to ride.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    I'd rather have a 145 rear HD with a 150 Pike with a 13.5BB. the high bb and only 130mm rear travel just doesn't do it for me, close, but not close enough. the HDR at 130 is not a bad bike and is pretty cool for not having to retool a whole new bike, just doesn't seem like an upgrade from my current HD. I think everyone who is screaming "bandaid bike" already has a HD and wants to upgrade to something. If I didn't have a HD already and really wanted a 650 bike I'd do the 130 HDR 650.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201
    I'd be very interested too. The more I ride my HD the more I really like it. Especially after installing a -1 degree angleset. My other 2 bikes are not getting much attention lately. I would love to try/see a newly designed 150mm HDR 27.5 with 66.5 degree head angle and shortish stays and 13.5" BB that weighs around 6 lbs.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    66 is too slack for most trails, and I doubt if you'll ever see an Ibis with such angles, not really in their design/style forte

  21. #21
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,232

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Waiting, like resistance, is futile when an awesome bike is ready to ride.
    This.

    I rode the sh!t out of my HD 160 and loved it. Now riding the crap out of my HDR 650b and loving it.

    I was wondering if I'd miss the bit of travel... Nope, don't miss it. This bike is Crazy Fun.
    - -benja- -

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dibbs_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,059
    Stealth cable routing to add to the dedicated 650b HD list of wants.

  23. #23
    The Crow
    Reputation: Iwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    935
    Funnily enough I wasn't over-joyed with the HDR specs when it was first announced. Biggest gripe was probably the lack of Stealth routing!

    Still, sold my beloved SL-R and ordered a HDR 650b...I am chuffed beyond believe. It IS a "REAL" 650b
    There's a feeling I get
    When I look to the West
    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ramjm_2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Odd, the picture they posted seemed pretty convincing, do you think that it wasn't an apples to apples comparison? What were the measurements that you took?


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	998532_10151704250443276_1298466470_n.jpg 
Views:	257 
Size:	63.2 KB 
ID:	860463
    This is a lose/lose thread. The HDR will never satisfy everyone, like SP mentioned already many of the HD crowd see it as a fail since its basically what it is a "revised" HD. IMO it shouldnt be viewed negatively/picked apart b/c its not a whole new bike in fact I'd say the opposite an appreciate the fact that they tweaked/refined the HD (and can I say how much I love the fact that they have the retro-ft swing arm on the way!). IMO IBIS hould leave the HDR alone and examine the feasibility of developing a "Bigger" bike in the 150-160mm range 650b specific. If I was in the market for a "real" 27.5 bike the HDR would still be at the top of my list due to ride quality and versatility. As for the bike above, what is it trying to prove? Got more details on that? Both 27.5? Tires? The HD140 looks to have the lower BBH by about a 1/2", same as the 140/160 difference (My 27.5 HD 140 has about a 13.65" BB).

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    66 is too slack for most trails, and I doubt if you'll ever see an Ibis with such angles, not really in their design/style forte
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders. It will be interesting to see what ibis ends up designing. One other thought is increasing the reach a little for a given size. Not Yeti SB style but 1/2 " or so.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,918
    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke View Post
    I know I am not the only one here that feels like the HDR-650b is a bit of a "fudge".
    I just assumed my next bike would be an Ibis 150mm 650B bike. Then the HDR came out and I had to recalibrate. I'll be getting a new bike in a few months and probably won't be in the market for 3-5yrs, but when I am I'll check in and see what's up with Ibis.

    I like a lot about the company and their bikes, but not enough to comprise what I am after when I am spending top dollar. Especially with a bunch of great long travel 650B bikes in the market for 2014.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders. It will be interesting to see what ibis ends up designing. One other thought is increasing the reach a little for a given size. Not Yeti SB style but 1/2 " or so.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The Ibis bikes are not low slacked out monster truck bikes. They are not gonna make a bike like that, sorry. 66HA is gonna steer sluggish and only be "better" on steeper trails, these bikes are meant to be all arounders. Its a 6" bike that feels like a 5" inch bike, pedals awesome, flicks great, etc etc. Making an even slacker bike does not fit the Ibis forte at all. Just my opinion.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    174
    I would like to see an HD Ripley, 145mm travel, steep seat angle, longer reach...

  29. #29
    Kaj
    Kaj is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kaj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,165
    This thread should be renamed to when's Ibis going to make a slacker longer travel 650b bike. Even if they made one and I'm sure it would be popular, the current HDR likely would still out sell it, as there are more people who want 130-140mm bikes than 150-160mm bikes.

    Both are good travel bikes, but it's a just a matter of fact that mid travel bikes sell more than long travel bikes. I bet at some point there will be both from Ibis.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Both are good travel bikes, but it's a just a matter of fact that mid travel bikes sell more than long travel bikes. I bet at some point there will be both from Ibis.
    +1 - there is nothing wrong with the HDR if you are after the bike that it is. And there are great 150+mm FS 650b bikes available in 2014 for folks that don't want a HDR.

    I'm sure Ibis will invest in new moulds for a longer travel 650B bike at some point when it makes finanical sense for them to do so.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #31
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,232

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000 View Post
    The HDR will never satisfy everyone, like SP mentioned already many of the HD crowd see it as a fail since its basically what it is a "revised" HD. IMO it shouldnt be viewed negatively/picked apart b/c its not a whole new bike in fact I'd say the opposite an appreciate the fact that they tweaked/refined the HD (and can I say how much I love the fact that they have the retro-ft swing arm on the way!).
    YES. It's an evolution and refinement of the HD platform, just like the SL-R is to the SL.

    I don't get all the knashing of teeth over this bike. Ibis has been super clear on how they got to the HD-R. Riders were putting 27.5 kits on the HD and it made for a great riding bike. Ibis had new production methods they wanted to apply to the HD and they put two and two together.

    Is the HD-R a "brand new" or "true 27.5" bike? Depends on your definition, but bottom line, it's the HD platform taken forward.

    Does it check all your boxes? I have no idea, but I choose my bikes based on how they ride not on which numbers they hit on paper. I leave that for when I'm feverishly measuring d!ck size at the trailhead.

    All I know is that the HD-R rides f*cking incredible.
    - -benja- -

  32. #32
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,232

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    Even if they made one and I'm sure it would be popular, the current HDR likely would still out sell it, as there are more people who want 130-140mm bikes than 150-160mm bikes.
    And this! I got the HD 160 after riding an SL for a few years and it was purely based on a few rides and demos. No way did I feel I "needed" 160 travel, but sh!t it was fun! Do I "need" that travel? Who knows?! Sure, there are spots I ride that make use of it, but also plenty more that don't even come close.

    There are riders out there who can really, truly justify longer travel on a regular basis, but for 90% of the riders out there 120-140 is more then enough to have fun, go fast etc.

    Now, wants and needs are two different things and if you read MTBR, PB, Bike Mag etc, you're always going to feel you Need that latest whatever with whatever.

    Anyway, apologies if I'm getting too ranty.
    - -benja- -

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    574
    +1 - I'm in

    Need to rename the thread to ... "what are all the existing HD owners waiting for in their next frame"
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  34. #34
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Need to rename the thread to ... "what are all the existing HD owners waiting for in their next frame"
    160mm of travel + eccentric pivot links + shorter-than-HD chainstays

    Nothing wrong with the HD-R but I want a long legged 650b bike.

  35. #35
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    You mean for your tastes right ? I've ridden my HD with the HA at 67 and 66 and prefer the 66 setting. On my Knolly I prefer the 67 HA. The Mach 6 has a 66 degree head angle as do a lot of other all mtn, enduro type bikes. The Enduro Evo is 65 degrees! To say that 66 degrees doesn't work for most trails is pretty bold if you're talking generally for most riders.
    I must be odd, I quite like my 650b 160 HD with -1deg angleset, running a 65 deg HA. It steers just fine, climbs chunk like a goat and descents like a champ.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201
    Nope sorry 66 and slacker head angles aren't appropriate for most trails just ask Yody. Oh and you only need 120mm of travel just ask Benja.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    64
    That is my HDR on the right the bike on the left is a 160mm 26" HD. The picture was to show that the BB is lower on the 148 HDR then on a regular 26" HD.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    Other bikes aren't Mojo HD, if you want a min DH bike then yes throw coil front and rear a 180mm fork, angleset, etc. I'm sure it will DH just great but will suck balls on anything flat or uphill. Its great that the HD is capable of being built this way but this is not how they are sold or spec'd stock. The ideal behind this bike is not DH bike. Its science that the slacker you make the bike the less PUMP you will get from it, the more it will wheelie on climbs, will corner worse on anything other than steep, and so on. My comment is that if they make a new HD, lets be realistic, Ibis has a bit of a style of building bikes and Mini DH All Mountain Machines is not really it. Just being realistic here, I know a lot of peeps like bikes that are good at runnning into things, but thats not what these bikes are about.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    449
    Yep, I agree I ran my HD 160 with a 170 Marz RC3 and a Roco 2.25 stroke shock with 140 chips, it was a mini dowhill bike close to 66*HA and very poppy and fun, but I was faster and more efficent on most everything in 160/160. It was the perfect balance for me but whatever works for me stinks for others and visa versa. That is the true strenght of the HD its versitility.

    I dig everyones creativity with the many options, good work guys!! keep it up..

  40. #40
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,232

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdsdad View Post
    That is my HDR on the right the bike on the left is a 160mm 26" HD. The picture was to show that the BB is lower on the 148 HDR then on a regular 26" HD.
    How have you like the 148 BikeCo setup?
    - -benja- -

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,529
    However you look at it, the HDR is not for everyone looking into 650b. But it does offer the versatility of going 26" or 650b, which may be nice for some. But if you're looking for a full-on longer travel 650b rig, this misses the mark for most (Note: "Most" not all). Some may want the stiffness of the HD frame and want less travel.

    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    12
    I was waiting for the next HD, whatever it was going to be. Been riding a Mojo SL since '08. As long as it took for the Ripley to come out my hope was that a next generation HD would come out with eccentric links, 150mm, 650b, and maybe slightly longer in the top tube. I'm guessing (hoping) Ibis has something like this in the works. No way they go forward with only the Ripley having eccentric links. I expected the "next" HD to be as game changing as the original Mojo and the Ripley. I only buy one bike every 4-5 years. After mulling over the HD-R for a while I eventually pulled the trigger on a Bronson C. I love DW but have ridden various friends VPP bikes and enjoyed them. I'm stoked as hell to get the Bronson and try something different, but had the HD-R come out as I described I would've ordered it on the spot, no reviews required.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    However you look at it, the HDR is not for everyone looking into 650b. But it does offer the versatility of going 26" or 650b, which may be nice for some. But if you're looking for a full-on longer travel 650b rig, this misses the mark for most (Note: "Most" not all). Some may want the stiffness of the HD frame and want less travel.

    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
    They moved the seat tube WAY forward. The FD mount is actually a tab that extends rearward about 2 cm. Very creative solution.

  44. #44
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    But as for actually hitting the mark for longer travel (140mm+) frames, I think the Pivot Mach 6 nailed it. The specs are awesome. For example, IDK how they managed to get 16.9 chainstays yet with gobs of tire clearance. Heck, even the stock HD with beefy 26" tires comes close.
    I went to my LBS to buy some small parts today. They have the latest and greatest bikes from quite a few brands including Pivot, Ibis, C'dale, Rocky Mountain and Kona. They had three M6s in stock, they are extremely sweet bikes and I could not believe how much clearance for big tires there is in the rear. I was told they were selling better than hotcakes. Everyone in the know wants the M6. I finally saw the Ripley, too. What a nice bike, the design is so clean and simple. I surely hope Ibis is working on a 650b long travel bike with eccentric links, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    How have you like the 148 BikeCo setup?
    I love it, it's a phenomenal bike. I come from a moto/Dh background and I feel that it's fine for my now All mountain adventures (I'm in my late 30's now). The only thing that I liked better on my older Bike-Co 26" HD was the Marzocchi coil fork that I had on it, I think it was a better fork then the Fox 34 that I have on my HDR now but that's the only thing.

    I have thrown everything that I can at the HDR and it handles it with no problems, But it has more travel then the stock HD though. If I had to do it all over again and Bike-co didn't offer the travel upgrade I would still buy the HDR (with a Fox float X or a custom tuned bike-co shock).

    FWIW I have owned a SC Bronson, SC 5010, Pivot Mach 6, and a Turner Burner, I don't feel that the added travel gives any of these bikes an advantage over the HDR in 130 mode. All of the bikes mentioned are excellent bikes but the HDR is my go to bike of all these and is the only one that is still in my garage except for the Pivot but I'm getting ready to sell it as well. For me the travel isn't as big of an issue as much as the geometry is and the Ibis has been my favorite over all of the other bikes mentioned above. After all it's 90% rider 10% bike right?

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ramjm_2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,125
    moto,

    Was the 2.25 a 7.875 e2e?

    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    Yep, I agree I ran my HD 160 with a 170 Marz RC3 and a Roco 2.25 stroke shock with 140 chips, it was a mini dowhill bike close to 66*HA and very poppy and fun, but I was faster and more efficent on most everything in 160/160. It was the perfect balance for me but whatever works for me stinks for others and visa versa. That is the true strenght of the HD its versitility.

    I dig everyones creativity with the many options, good work guys!! keep it up..

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    486
    They already have one, its called the Pivot Mach 6.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,381
    I see "eccentric links" on a lot of people's wish lists, but it's not obvious to me why you would want them unless they enable some other feature of the bike, like weight, geometry, etc. it stands to reason that longer travel requires longer links, and at some point, that makes the eccentric design prohibitive. If you need eccentrics to achieve the right kinematics or geometry, then go for it, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    171
    @cdsdad. Could you compare pivot m6 to HDR please. What Made you go with HDR ?
    Last edited by Ilyam3; 01-13-2014 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Typo

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyam3 View Post
    @cdsdad. Could you compare pivot m6 to HDR please. What Made you go with HDR ?
    To be honest it's a Coke or Pepsi type decision. The Pivot is a great bike, the HDR is great as well. To me it just came down to the fact that I have ridden Ibis bikes for a long time and I have never had one that I didn't like, so that is why I'm sticking with the HDR, not because it is far superior to the Pivot because it's not, and vice versa. It just came down to which company and geometry that I liked better.

    I used to race expert DH a while back and I can push these bikes pretty hard. Neither of them had any issues with what I threw at it (keep in mind that I have a 147mm HDR built by the Bike-Co with custom suspension), the same with climbing for the most part. If I had to pick one of the two I would say the Ibis is a little bit better climber but not by much. In my opinion I don't think if I had the stock 130mm set-up that my mind would change, I would however drop the stock shock on the HDR and put a more aggressive shock to unleash the bikes true potential like the Fox floatX, RS monarch plus, or the Cane Creek DB air.

    Buy which one that you like better because I don't think one is more superior compared to the other, I will sell you my Pivot if you are leaning that direction

  51. #51
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Who else is closely watching the development of the Warden and of the Balance? I have to admit, the Balance is looking mighty tempting...

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,918
    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Who else is closely watching the development of the Warden and of the Balance? I have to admit, the Balance is looking mighty tempting...
    The Warden and Mach 6 are the two 650B bikes that have my attention.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    131
    As a rehash of the HD, the HDR is no doubt great, but agree for many current HD owners, such as myself, were expecting, and hoping for, a dedicated 650b bike that takes things to the next level. The original Mojo was a cutting edge bike, it was possibly one of the first really light long travel bikes out there and imo now the range looks a little dated and I think it's time Ibis went back to where they started, bringing a really cutting edge bike to the market, in terms of geometry, construction and ride. I'd love a dedicated 650b, 140mm bike with a nice long top tube, circa 23.5-24" on the medium, low 13-13-5" BB, 66-67 degree head angle, 1x drivetrain specific and use eccentrics to make for a shorter, sub 17" chainstay and still have plenty of tyre clearance for beefy tyres. Could easily be sub 6lbs, maybe even close to 5lbs. Ibis have the know how to do it, there's a huge market for this kinda bike right now, they would sell by the bucket load. Ibis are a great company and they're reasonably priced compared to Santa Cruz, Yeti etc but I just think they need to inject something truly new and right at the cutting edge of development. If they were to produce a bike like I'd described above, I'd buy one in a heartbeat and I bet a shedload of others would too.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    505
    These comments by Tom Morgan suggest that we should see more 650b from Ibis. Their modus operendi has been to spend multiple years developing bikes that then have staying power, rather than iterating rapidly/annually. Whether that works in a business sense ultimately we will see, but their slowness on the 650b front would be consistent with wanting to get it right when they do enter that segment. Hopefully what comes will be worth the wait.

    switchback - February/March 2014

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    114
    Am i the only one hoping for a 650b Tranny? I would buy one today.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    These comments by Tom Morgan suggest that we should see more 650b from Ibis. Their modus operendi has been to spend multiple years developing bikes that then have staying power, rather than iterating rapidly/annually. Whether that works in a business sense ultimately we will see, but their slowness on the 650b front would be consistent with wanting to get it right when they do enter that segment. Hopefully what comes will be worth the wait.

    switchback - February/March 2014
    Care to summarize for the folks who don't have a subscription/login?

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000 View Post
    This is a lose/lose thread. The HDR will never satisfy everyone, like SP mentioned already many of the HD crowd see it as a fail since its basically what it is a "revised" HD. IMO it shouldnt be viewed negatively/picked apart b/c its not a whole new bike in fact I'd say the opposite an appreciate the fact that they tweaked/refined the HD (and can I say how much I love the fact that they have the retro-ft swing arm on the way!). IMO IBIS hould leave the HDR alone and examine the feasibility of developing a "Bigger" bike in the 150-160mm range 650b specific. If I was in the market for a "real" 27.5 bike the HDR would still be at the top of my list due to ride quality and versatility. As for the bike above, what is it trying to prove? Got more details on that? Both 27.5? Tires? The HD140 looks to have the lower BBH by about a 1/2", same as the 140/160 difference (My 27.5 HD 140 has about a 13.65" BB).
    I´m with you about the HDR, if this bike were a 650b with 160mm rear travel i will change my HD 160 right now, but since is less travel, no way. I rpefer my 26" with 160mm travel, even if they try to sell me the idea of the 650b "advantage" rolling. Also the SC Tallboy, Bronson, Solo, any SC since the LTr are just that pure Blur models, no new models since the Nomad, so SC doesn´t invest any money to design a new frame, just fitting whell sizes inside old frames.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,381
    Quote Originally Posted by fabricio fracchia View Post
    Also the SC Tallboy, Bronson, Solo, any SC since the LTr are just that pure Blur models, no new models since the Nomad, so SC doesn´t invest any money to design a new frame, just fitting whell sizes inside old frames.
    ?????

    Do yourself a favor and let someone else pick your next bike for you.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    156
    I dont need anybody pick any bike for me, if you are a SC defender-lover sorry if the true hurt you, I owned 3 SC years ago and I know what I´m telling. If you have doubts about what I say just open the SC website and see the models refered, ALL are Blurs frames.

    regards

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6,702
    Quote Originally Posted by fabricio fracchia View Post
    I´m with you about the HDR, if this bike were a 650b with 160mm rear travel i will change my HD 160 right now, but since is less travel, no way. I rpefer my 26" with 160mm travel, even if they try to sell me the idea of the 650b "advantage" rolling. Also the SC Tallboy, Bronson, Solo, any SC since the LTr are just that pure Blur models, no new models since the Nomad, so SC doesn´t invest any money to design a new frame, just fitting whell sizes inside old frames.
    The ignorance in this statement is astounding.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,381
    Quote Originally Posted by fabricio fracchia View Post
    I dont need anybody pick any bike for me, if you are a SC defender-lover sorry if the true hurt you, I owned 3 SC years ago and I know what I´m telling. If you have doubts about what I say just open the SC website and see the models refered, ALL are Blurs frames.

    regards
    You are literally incapable of evaluating mountain bikes. Original Mojo and Mojo HDR... same bike, right? They both have oval shaped holes in the frame!

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OT

    If I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded version
    What I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201
    ^^^^ or just a shock tune based on riding style, weight, type of trails, intended purpose etc.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,381
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OT

    If I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded version
    What I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD
    Having recently switched from a Float CTD to a CCDBA on a different frame, I would emphasize this as well. I think in many cases, the switch to an appropriate shock for your riding (which for any aggressive terrain is not a Fox Float) can be a bigger difference than switching to a new frame.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,918
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OT

    If I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded version
    What I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD
    I had the same experience with a Santa Cruz bike. Getting the shock custom tuned was a 100% improvement in performance.

    Makes me sad for folks riding that same bike with a stock shock!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OT

    If I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded version
    What I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD
    When I put my Pushed Monarch Plus on my HD it was like a brand new bike. The RP23 has never seen the light of day again.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JuSa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    41

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabricio fracchia View Post
    I´m with you about the HDR, if this bike were a 650b with 160mm rear travel i will change my HD 160 right now, but since is less travel, no way. I rpefer my 26" with 160mm travel, even if they try to sell me the idea of the 650b "advantage" rolling. Also the SC Tallboy, Bronson, Solo, any SC since the LTr are just that pure Blur models, no new models since the Nomad, so SC doesn´t invest any money to design a new frame, just fitting whell sizes inside old frames.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    The ignorance in this statement is astounding.
    So, if there were a 650B 160mm HDR and 130mm HDR available to choose from, which one would you take?

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6,702
    Quote Originally Posted by JuSa View Post
    So, if there were a 650B 160mm HDR and 130mm HDR available to choose from, which one would you take?
    My comment was directed at the part of the statement that all SC frames are just Blurs with different wheel sizes.
    OG Ripley v2
    Carver 420 TI

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    Quote Originally Posted by JuSa View Post
    So, if there were a 650B 160mm HDR and 130mm HDR available to choose from, which one would you take?
    I'd get in touch with Bike Co in California and investigate their 147mm HDR 650B option.
    For me and the varied trails around here 150mm -160 seems to be he sweet spot. Mates that have upgraded or changed bikes to less travel have all from time to time regretted it on our hills

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GuruAtma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,718
    It always struck me as odd that my lightweight xc Mojo SL has more rear travel than the heavy duty HDR 650b. I'd love a 650B XC bike. Or maybe a Ripley-R.
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  71. #71
    Stupid is, as stupid does
    Reputation: spunkmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    604
    My 650B Mojo HD gets 150mm travel in the back. I had Suspension experts custom build/shim a Rock Shox Monarch Plus (It was between that and a CCDBA. I chose the Monarch Plus for weight savings. The CCDBA is a mind blowing experience on this frame though. I may keep it or I may sell it. I broke my arm real bad and couldn't bike for 6 months. I won't be downhilling or can afford to crash or take any chances on the bike for the next 1 1/2 years. I figured the CCDBA Was over kill and it adds .7lbs. I'm focusing more on distance these days) I measured for rear tire for clearance about 20 times with a 2.25 Ardent and figured that 10mm was all the room I needed. What kills me is the tight fit for the rear tire. I was going to buy the new rear triangle but for the amount of money I said eff it and purchased a 160 650B Pike. But my chainstay yoke is seriously chewed up. But the new Pike is worth it.
    Yeti SB95C
    Carver Ti420(650B wheels/160 Fork)
    Pivot M6-For sale in classifieds
    VeloFix-Save time. Ride More

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    With my HD running as well as it does, I can afford to wait. The HDR seems to have missed a few marks at least in how we perceive it.
    If I had to buy a bike right now it would prob be a pivot Mk6. I'm sure Ibis monitors all thee posts and hopefully useful feedback like this (from a 6 year Ibis owner) will drive some further revisions to the HD platform

  73. #73
    Stupid is, as stupid does
    Reputation: spunkmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    With my HD running as well as it does, I can afford to wait. The HDR seems to have missed a few marks at least in how we perceive it.
    If I had to buy a bike right now it would prob be a pivot Mk6. I'm sure Ibis monitors all thee posts and hopefully useful feedback like this (from a 6 year Ibis owner) will drive some further revisions to the HD platform
    I tell my wife almost every day that I love my HD. But she also knows that I want to have a torrid love affair with the Mach 6. Just out of curiosity of course. But than again that is how it happened with 29ers for me. And I love my 29 inch bike.

    I've been riding bikes with 145-160 travel in the rear for so long now the thought of going to less travel seems counterintuitive. It's just nice to have that extra cushion of travel. At least for where I ride here in So-Cal. If I were to get an HD-R frame I would get the 160 26" and frankenbike it again. At least I would have better tire clearance.
    Yeti SB95C
    Carver Ti420(650B wheels/160 Fork)
    Pivot M6-For sale in classifieds
    VeloFix-Save time. Ride More

  74. #74
    Mtb Guide
    Reputation: Maverick005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,023
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OTIf I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded versionWhat I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD
    Concur number 1 thanks to you LOL (though my cc is not happy) Ive had to send off my perfect shock for service. My demo for Friday on the M6 was not available doh. So with a full day of guiding my Fox CTD went back on, honestly I never thought it was as bad as everyone made out, still crap, but usually allot of exaggeration on forums.Dam was I wrong that thing is the single worst investment on an HD/R or any frame of this quality, this is a true comparison no other part specc, component was skewing my results? Out of control was given a new meaning after 8months of riding the awesome Vector, please come back to me asap, I will not repeat will not ride my bike again with this POS ever again! Thank you Fox Float CTD! Surprised I did not get injured while sharing my trails with you!Oldm8 is over here so trying to touch base and maybe will have M6 today tomorrow to play on, that said prior to my shock being sent in for service, my bike was purfect and humming, like NZL62 and others have said get the balance right with quality dampers front and rear and dam its one great ride!One thing I know in life perception and reality are not the same with anything! It would be very interesting if me or someone could compare all shocks forks on this frame with same speccs components, Id bet the ride quality difference would still vary greatly, no idea what would come out on top, after all everyone is different so thats always hard to compare. After XC Nationals on Sat, I would still love a Ripley once they sort out the kinks in next gen, almost got a taste to race XC again just for fun though, track was so awesome and techy finally, HDR 130, no Bikeco for me, NZL have you learnt nothing lol, my HD 160. Will always stay in my stable no matter what else I have, I see an M6 just like so much about this frame esp seeing it in person plus a Zerode DH 26/27.5" in carbon, bigger wheel option for DH as old and slow need that bigger wheel.

  75. #75
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick005 View Post
    I see an M6 just like so much about this frame esp seeing it in person plus a Zerode DH 26/27.5" in carbon, bigger wheel option for DH as old and slow need that bigger wheel.
    Did you see this?


    Zerode trail bike prototype, 27B and 18spd pinion box.

    More: Prototype Zerode trail bike

  76. #76
    Mtb Guide
    Reputation: Maverick005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,023
    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Did you see this?


    Zerode trail bike prototype, 27B and 18spd pinion box.

    More: Prototype Zerode trail bike
    Cheers,
    yeah mate seen it ages ago, know Rob well, great guy, desinger & bike rider, sic bike, probably wont see that in production for some time, but sic sic bike and no doubt will ride amazingly!

    Nice find btw.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    Hey Mav This is the new one. I think it may even have a pinion gearbox. Mike Metz was talking about it. Still doubtful that it will make production as it may be too dear for the market.

    You blaming me for your clumbsy rebound adjusting fingers? I wasn't even there your honor we were having a text conversation!

  78. #78
    Mtb Guide
    Reputation: Maverick005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,023
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    Hey Mav This is the new one. I think it may even have a pinion gearbox. Mike Metz was talking about it. Still doubtful that it will make production as it may be too dear for the market.

    You blaming me for your clumbsy rebound adjusting fingers? I wasn't even there your honor we were having a text conversation!
    Be interesting to see, he keeps his cards pretty tight about trail bike production, still very small company.

    Don't blame you. I knew at the time Id done enough, and nothing clumsy about my fingers, it turns or it doesn't, Ive used rebound knobs for decades never had an issue, I knew I should just left it alone, too dam helpful, I will see what the local XF importer stings me, taken too long already, if it costs me big time as they are saying today then as much as I like the product, well be my last, as you know here in NZ its about support and it will def move me onto a new frame quicker, I wont be riding this again with the Fox float, I will be trying out a Fox Float X tomorrow so well see how that goes. No more helpfulness, people will just have to work it out for themselves is this is the outcome though.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    sheesh Touchy tonight Mav

  80. #80
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    All Fox and no XFusion makes Mav a dull boy.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    What happened? He tried to give someone so much extra rebound he turned it past the stop and stripped it out?

    lol j/k, sucks when you are just trying to help someone and it backfires, has happened to me.
    friends don't let friends Fred

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I'm loving my std HD. So this is very much OT

    If I changed to 27.5 it would prob be a Bikeco modded version
    What I will say is having had A LOT of suspension products on my HD, the stock RP23/Fox whatever up front setup really holds this machine back. Its almost criminal how bad the RP23 is compared to say my XF Vector air. Why do people change bikes? Something new, a different ride experience, something faster, climbs better. Whatever the reason, I would say that a shock change at the very least will open your eyes to the true potential of the HD
    ^^ This guy nailed it, I didn't know what I was missing with my HD with RP23 until I put the Bike Co tuned Marz on it, completely changed the bike (for clarification I run the Marz 55rc3Ti on the front, 1x10). To relate this to the current thread I guess the point is that the longer travel Bike Co HDR could very easily be a completely different animal than the 130 HDR with the stock Fox shock. Of course I haven't ridden either HDR so take it for what its worth. Everyones wants/needs are so different its hard to compare….. So many sick bikes out there.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mazspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I must be odd, I quite like my 650b 160 HD with -1deg angleset, running a 65 deg HA. It steers just fine, climbs chunk like a goat and descents like a champ.
    As do I.

  84. #84
    Unpredictable
    Reputation: Ridnparadise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,105
    I have a peripheral interest in this thread via my 2006 Mojo C and an SLR frame I have not built up yet. Seems no-one has commented on this

    Compare-O Bottom Line: The Ibis Mojo HDR 27.5 is a Razor-Sharp Performer | Mountain Bike Review

    which is a bit odd, being as it is from MTBR.

    When I read the suspension was harsh, I thought that was odd and at odds with every other Mojo variation. DW Link is not harsh. It allows a full range of travel with minimal ramp up on the Mojo's prior to this review.

    I haven't ever read anything other than disappointment for the CTD, but I have no idea myself. RP23 (the old version) works great on my old bike after many years of flogging, but the canister and shims have changed a few times since then.

    When I bought the old Mojo C I thought I would be riding fairly conservatively, but it made me do other things. It has been smashed over and onto rocks and roots for years and not failed. Almost everything around the frame has been seriously damaged, but not the frame itself. For some of it I could have gone for a shallower head angle and longer travel, more stiffness and blah blah, but all I did was go with stronger wheels and rubber and rode harder with a 140 fork. Since I was a kid I just adjusted for head angle and other geometry according to what bike a I had or was borrowing. Then there were lots of motorbikes, dirt and road and part time motorcycle workshop assisting, lots of test rides and using mates from a racing club's bikes, which all made it clear there are advantages and disadvantages to every variation in geometry.

    Luckily with MTBs you can play with it (within limits esp with rear brake size and mounts on lesser bikes apparently). I understand the need for more clearance through the swingarm especially if muddy; although riding mud does not sit well with my volunteer trail building, but what I can't really get is why make 650B the most important decision.Q If you feel a different shock will suit you, or you need to tinker with your flex, then change it. Sounds like 650B has become a holy grail to some, perhaps overpowering 26 goodness in awkward proportions.

    I don't need HD muscle for most of what I ride and I like the lively feel of the "weaker" frame at the speed I usually ride, so I have the SLR frame and plan to use a 160 pike, solid carbon wheels and smash harder on the more serious descents and lower it a bit for everything else. Sounds weird, but it is what I want out of a bike. I don't need to hear about BB height or other numbers because the ability to use more fork travel and change my centre of mass forward a bit will alter that as much as a usable fork travel of 50mm in a hard berm alters it now.

    Sorry for the novel, but you can manipulate these bikes enough to come up with great individual rides. Perhaps the desire for a dedicated 650B is more like the desire for more plastic surgery; endless. I mean, are you trying to beat everyone with the "one" frame, or make Ibis compete with every other manufacturer who has invested years of R,D&marketing into a number. From the review above, all you do is change the shock and you can compete with anyone you need to.

    Perhaps though I have missed the point. Maybe it's like trail building; everyone wants what they want without putting any effort in. In this case maybe Ibis is on the end of your pick!

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    135
    The question is, will there ever be one coming?

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    I think if there was to be a change to the HDR it won't be announced until later in the year for the 2015 season.
    I have been riding quite a number of enduro events and I have three observations.

    1. Growing number of 27.5 bikes
    2. Static or dropping number of 29's
    3. Very few "sorted" 27.5's. Maybe trance sx and pivot mach 6 being the only ones I saw.

    What I mean by sorted is best illustrated by the importer of Commencals own new Meta
    It was heavily, heavily modded. Dremmeled swing arm to put the better float X being the major. It was surprising to me that a brand like that would have no capacity for any shock with a piggyback. I think Darryns bike was also sporting an angle set and a custom rear brake mount to take a 203 rotor that is becoming necessary in the steeper enduro events.
    This guy is quick and a mid forties rider and was one of NZ's first pro DH riders. To their credit, Commencal were quickly rolling out a swap out swing arm. However it left me thinking that 2014 wasn't the year for me to jump wheel sizes. These bike have turned the mtb market upside down in little over 12months but I think we will see a MAJOR leap forward in 2015 from all the manufacturers and I for one am always looking at a frame lasting me 2-3 years at least.
    Its worth thinking about.

    The other overall observation was that amongst all the "night and day", "way betters" etc etc there was zero testing of like for like. That is zero testing of the same components and isolating the change to wheels only. What I was seeing was plenty of bike vs bike comparison and no 26 v 27.5 with the same running gear. How can anyone claim that 27.5 is FUNDAMENTALLY better when very few meaningful tests exist. I am sure there is in fact a difference, but the degree is hard to pin down. The only pro rider that I have seen an interview of was Nico Voullioz where he was talking one or two seconds per kilometer. I have made up 5 times as much by just getting out and riding more and getting fitter. Hitting the trails with my two dogs has gained me far more it would seem than if I had emptied my account in the general direction of the nearest bikeshop.
    So has changing my suspension to a full X Fusion setup BTW

    Worth thinking about. I will most likely go to 27.5 but I am very happy to wait

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    97
    I would love to see a back to back test between a HD140, and a HDR. Everything identical except for the wheels. It's a doable comparison. The HD140, with a 150 Fox 34 fork, light stiff wheels is an amazing ride. I have both wheel sizes (650b with offset bushings). Unfortunately the HD140 setup has carbon HAven wheels and the 650B setup are Arch EX. At least set up like this, the 26" is a lot quicker in almost every situation except for straight shots over chunder. If I had 650B carbon hoops, I'd bet my impression will change.

    Another thing of note, I keep the same 650B Fox fork (set at 140) for both setups, as I use a single offset bushing, even in 26" mode. The fork offset balance that out somewhat.

    WHen the trails are really rough and steep...Fox 36, 160 travel mode. I love the Mojo HD!

  88. #88
    [put something cool here]
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    ...there was zero testing of like for like. That is zero testing of the same components and isolating the change to wheels only. What I was seeing was plenty of bike vs bike comparison and no 26 v 27.5 with the same running gear.
    Enduro magazine rode the Commençal Meta (coincidence!) range in its three wheel sizes: Biketest: Commencal Meta ? 3 wheel sizes compared | Enduro Mountainbike Magazine

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    Its a nice write up but however there is still no hard data
    Where was the back to back timed runs? Again all we get qualitative assessments over empirical. People may dismiss this post as me be a naysayer but its not. I would simply like to know that three riders all rode three bikes on same track on timed conditions and here are the times, the splits and the average of all three means x bike was quickest.
    The meta am 27.5 looks very similar to the one I saw that had some serious machining to fit a piggyback fox

  90. #90
    [put something cool here]
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    177
    OK, this comes closer:
    Wheel Size Testing with SCOTT Swisspower - YouTube

    And a few more words on that test:
    Singletrack Magazine | 2013 Scott Genius launch: 650B and 29" - but no 26"

    By the way, I love my 26" bikes, but I also love searching the web, that's all :-)

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    I love my bike too and don't have my head in the sand but I am surprised that there isn't more testing. Everything seems to be based on rider opinion

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Do you mean more scientific testing ? Isn't testing rider opinion ? You text ride bikes and give an opinion don't you ? There are plenty of reviews out there of the 27.5 bikes. What there seems to be less of is true 26-27.5 comparisons with like for like components etc as pointed out already.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,189
    No rider opinion is only part of it. We have all had rides where we felt awesome but were slow or ones where we felt comfortable and not fast but were.
    The thing I am very curious is why there isn;t any like for like timing tests out there? I am begging to suspect that it is because the times are very very close and would be hard to market from and that rider opinion and superlatives make the marketing departments day. An interesting interview was Steve Jones from Dirt with Nigel Page Team CRC Nukeproof. SJ was suggesting that CRC Nukeproof would have to be at a disadvantage this world cup season if they weren't running their 650B platform. Nigel was firm in his assessment that not enough time testing had been done, it wasn't clear cut at all.
    But again, all they did was to allude to testing that was being carried out - as with the Scott vid. I'm hanging out for the data from Jared Graves or Jerome Clementz or Nico that shows that x wheel was x sec faster on a given stage.

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,201

    Who is waiting for a "real" dedicated 650b Ibis ?

    Gotcha. I also wonder how relevant the test data would be from a Jerome to a hack like me. One of my bikes is an HD but I can't ride it like Lopes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  95. #95
    OriginalDonk
    Reputation: OriginalDonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    446
    I think Wilks makes a solid point that rings true for me. I love to follow the EWS and am always interested in seeing what the pros are running. It satisfies the true bike nerd inside me but I'm very careful to be reasonable about how much bearning an enduro legend's setup should have on my current bike and riding.

    I've heard Nico V. and Fabian B. talk about their perceived benefits of 27.5/650B but those guys can pump terrain all day every day. I used to be a lot cleaner on techier trails but now I sit at a desk for 9-10 hours a day. I get out as much as I can but my core strength and skills can only progress so far given the trail time I actually see given my other commitments (work and family).

    I've been thinking that changing wheelsize may lead to a greater delta in my standard after work loop for me than for a pro who is going to get the most out of the terrain where I may not have the strength (core, leg, mental) to squeeze out that extra push from a solid pump. A smaller wheeled bike may be faster if you can pump section X while a larger wheeled bike may roll over things a touch better. It all comes down to if you can pump section X and how well can you can pull it off. There also has to be a rider/terrain specific point of diminishing returns, some point where a weekend warrior can't even really pump a bike and would benefit more from better rollover and momentum of larger wheels.

    At the end of the day nothing can tell you more than taking a demo on your local loop to see what sections you clean more easily, what sections you struggle with, and what previously fun sections feel a touch sanitized or boring. Pretty amazing that we can take a $5K+ bike out for a spin to get a feel for things.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Portti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    223
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    Its a nice write up but however there is still no hard data
    Where was the back to back timed runs? Again all we get qualitative assessments over empirical. ...
    I think that the german Bike magazine did timed testing sessions to compare 26", 27.5" and 29" wheel sizes. I'm travelling at the moment so can't confirm that but I'll try to find the issue where this test was once I'm back home. I'm not sure if there is anything online related to that test.
    Pertti
    Lahti, Finland
    MC Kramppi

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Portti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    223
    Quote Originally Posted by Portti View Post
    I think that the german Bike magazine did timed testing sessions to compare 26", 27.5" and 29" wheel sizes. ...
    I found a test on Bike Magazine 01/2013 where they had installed data recording devices to similar bikes with different wheel sizes. They mesured a lot of things but not lap times or at least they didn't publish those figures. So unfortunately no help from there.

    I still recall that at some point they had lap time comparisons between wheel sizes in some issue of their magazine but I couldn't find such test when going through my pile of Bike Magazines. Anybody else find that test?
    Pertti
    Lahti, Finland
    MC Kramppi

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    4,976
    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    Its a nice write up but however there is still no hard data
    Where was the back to back timed runs? Again all we get qualitative assessments over empirical. People may dismiss this post as me be a naysayer but its not. I would simply like to know that three riders all rode three bikes on same track on timed conditions and here are the times, the splits and the average of all three means x bike was quickest.
    The meta am 27.5 looks very similar to the one I saw that had some serious machining to fit a piggyback fox
    I have about as close as you can get to hard data on 26 vs 275 vs 29. The only issue I have is that my 29 was not carbon framed/carbon wheeled like the other two. If you want the Strava shots specifically around 26 vs 29 I will try to figure out how to post it up.

    In addition there is this MTBR article which I found very interesting

    The Angry Singlespeeder: 26er or 29er ? Which was Faster at the 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo? | Mountain Bike Review

    One of the other things to consider is that first and second overall in the EWS were won on 26 last year. In addition something like 18 of 26 stages were won on 26's as well. I don't think a 29'r cracked the top 10 on any stages. There may have been an exception though. I have thrown out the women's races in this data set because Mosley was so far ahead of everyone after AC got hurt. It wasn't even close, but she alternated on all wheel sizes throughout the season.

    On the XC side Nino Shurter has been fairly dominant despite the fact he is riding 275 and not 29. My personal experience showed no advantage for 29 over 26 up or down. They definitely rode differently though and the 29 would give riders with less experience more confidence which lets them go faster.

  99. #99
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,232

    Good job! Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
    I am begging to suspect that it is because the times are very very close and would be hard to market from and that rider opinion and superlatives make the marketing departments day.
    ...you get the grand prize. The hard truth is that even in the hands of an accomplished rider, the difference really won't be that great, and rarely enough to really measure in a concrete sense.

    Note, that does NOT mean there isn't a big difference! I notice it, but it may not be enough to push my times around. Sometimes you may notice an improvement in handling that doesn't correlated to a specific, easily tracked metric, ie: cleaning a line. I might be able to clean a line on my HDR650b that sometimes caused me trouble on my 26 (speaking hypothetically) but that may not equate to a faster anything.

    The reality is that there are literally a nearly infinite number of variables to this, between bikes and riders, and while a proper head-to-head with ALL components being the same and same riders... even then I think subtle and damn near untraceable factors (line choice!) might make waaaaay more difference then wheel size.

    ...all that said, I am LOVING my HDR, and I'm pretty damn happy with 27.5...
    - -benja- -

  100. #100
    Mtb Guide
    Reputation: Maverick005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,023
    I think I'm turning to the dark side!

    Its not because I think they are better, I honestly haven't had enough ride time over various enough terrain, no flat fire roads with XC tires to really compare, there is a difference, but for me I'm not sure if its better, I don't buy hype, but I love bikes, some things feel good, potentially, others feel just off, but that might just take more ride time and my fussy setup esp suspension!

    What I do know is on a side by side elevation picture, out of all 3 wheel sizes I look better on 27.5" like Goldilocks, not too hot and no too cold just in the middle, the 29er wheel makes me look awful, 26" which I love, just makes me look like I'm on a BMX bike.
    27.5" looks proportionally balanced and this is very important to going fast.

    Thats all its taken me a long time to deduce this scientific finding thank you in advance!

    There's some sexy rigs out there

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 477
    Last Post: 02-07-2013, 04:51 PM
  2. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-19-2012, 06:13 AM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-07-2012, 10:18 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-25-2012, 11:47 AM
  5. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-15-2011, 07:26 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •