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Thread: Turner vs. Ibis

  1. #1
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    Turner vs. Ibis

    I ride a 2004 Turner 5 Spot. I love the bike. However, the Ibis Mojo or Mojo SL looks very interesting. Can any of you compare the Turner to either of these two? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicylemark
    I ride a 2004 Turner 5 Spot. I love the bike. However, the Ibis Mojo or Mojo SL looks very interesting. Can any of you compare the Turner to either of these two? Thanks.
    I had a Turner 2003 5-Spot for 3 years. While I liked the bike I was never completely convinced by its performance and I could not really jump on the Turner bandwagon.

    The Ibis is simply all I can dream of a top-of-the-line bike. It climbs and accellerates much better then the 5-spot, and, in my opinion works better downhill where the DW suspension is much more predictable especially when it comes to counter-slope bumps (the ones that sack the suspension and make you go umph!). Often those bumps made the rear wheel on the 5-spot fly (and notice I had a Rp3/PUSH) and the bike swayed to the side if you were not ultra careful. Not on the Mojo (with the standard RP23). But besides the downhill it is the uphill and all around riding that will really surprise you: the mojo really climbs like the proverbial goat AND it is very very plush, at least as plush as my 5-spot with the RP3/PUSH in the softest setting but ... again ... it climbs.

    Some people think the 5-spot is burlier but I think that it just looks so: there is quite a lot of old-time thinking on the 5-spot and while it gives it an industrial "working-class" solid look, a lot of details can probably be re-engineered without compromising strength. As i mentioned above the Mojo flies as straight as an arrow, it is, for me again, more composed and stable then the 5-spot.

    But anyway, give it a try, I am VERY picky with bikes and to this day (after almost a year) I cannot find a fault on the IBIS. In my book it is a real bandwagon
    Last edited by Davide; 01-23-2008 at 06:35 PM.

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    I couldn't have said it better!

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    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibisrox
    I couldn't have said it better!
    Hmm, how long did you own your 5Spot?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

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    You'll find the Mojo handling is nearly the same as the '04 5 Spot. The 5 Spot ride was my favorite of all the 5 - 6.6 inch travel bikes I've demoed before getting the Mojo. Having the same handling geometry was why in ’06 I got the Mojo over an MKiii (the MKiii later changed geometry to match the Mojo’s in the '07 model). The Mojo has a very balanced cornering and jumping feel like the 5-Spot but the Mojo feels like it has a lower center of weight (maybe because there is less weight up high)

    I like the dw-Link more than Horst link or monopivot or any other suspension so far that I've tried or can imagine because it rides super smooth and stable without undesirable pedal feedback. So I can tune only enough damping for trail condition without compromising bump compliance for firmer pedaling stability as needed by the Turner bikes and just about all others.

    The 5-Spot is a great bike, in my top 3 or 4 of favorite trail bikes. The Mojo is noticeably better performing with no downside compared to the Spot.

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    Another veteran 5-Spot rider that thinks the Mojo blows it away! Still ride the 5-Spot occaisionally (it's set up for winter use) but much prefer the Mojo for all the reasons mentioned above. Would also add that the Mojo carves singletrack like no other bike, springing out of corners a bit like a carving ski!

  7. #7
    Don't be a sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The 5-Spot is a great bike, in my top 3 or 4 of favorite trail bikes. The Mojo is noticeably better performing with no downside compared to the Spot.
    You mean other than being way flexier?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You mean other than being way flexier?
    I think that Ray has made it abundantly clear that any "flex" that he perceives is something that adds to his experience. Its obvious from what i read from him that he likes the bike the way it is. Seeing as we are talking about opinons here I don't see what the issue is. His opinion is his opinion.

    I've ridden plenty of bikes with a heck of a lot more "flex" than my Mojo, I think that the bike rides absolutely great and never for a second have I considered it "flexy" to a detriment. Just my opinion though. I'm 5'11" 165 and like to shred the gnar.. hah
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    Can't be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You mean other than being way flexier?
    You can always count on some meaningless comment form a Turner fan. Side by side on the trail I could not tell the difference between my 5-spot and the Mojo when it coame to tracking straight (besides the Mojo working better on some types of downhill, but that is the DW-link).

    But to the point: the idea that you can evaluate "flex" of a frame by grabbing the stays, or the front or whatever is nonsense. What you are evaluating is at most your flesh reaction to the applied pressure

    Even if you were able to measure "flex" (and more important, as I said before, "reflex") using a machine you would need a theory to map those measurements to the trail ... which not many of us have ... last time I checked
    Last edited by Davide; 01-25-2008 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You mean other than being way flexier?
    What are your numbers? I found some flex difference but not huge as you say.

    I’ve already gone over this argument and found the Mojo’s minor amount of flex turns out to be a performance benefit due to the damping nature of carbon fiber and how the minor damped flex has been designed.

    When I compared my year old Mojo’s flex side by side with a new Spot on a showroom floor there was about 50% more flex using the same effort when twisting the top of the rear wheel in opposite direction to the seat post. In numbers, using the same effort, if the Spot flexed 6mm, the Mojo 9mm.

    But when flexing the wheel from a point near the BB against the lower end of the seat tube there was almost no flex difference between the Spot and Mojo.

    I flexed my Mojo’s head tube vs. the top of the front wheel between the Fox 32/140 stansions and the flex was much more than at the top of the rear wheel vs. seat post of the Mojo. That would be the same for a Spot or any bike using the same fork.

    Another factor is that the naturally more damped flex from carbon fiber with the same travel is smoother and more bump compliant compared to chattery stiff springy flex from aluminum bikes.

    If also including tire side flex, you could run 5 pounds more pressure in the Mojo rear tire, turn on the shock propedal at position 2, and get about the same handling feel overall if you like the firmer ride and more rear wheel handling chatter.

    The argument that the naturally damped flex of carbon fiber is less efficient than the stiffer and springy flex of aluminum bikes is the same argument that full suspension is less efficient than hardtails. It depends on the use. Suspension is better for rough trails, more rigid is better for smooth road use.

    So the Spot’s stiffer springy flex might slightly outperform the Mojo if you are only riding downhill on very smooth trails. I wouldn’t consider that a downside for the Mojo.

  11. #11
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    I can't compare the Mojo to a 5 spot but I can say that my wife has been on one for a year and loves it. I have ridden the bike some and think all the comments claiming it's flexy are BS.

    I knew when I saw this post that the other forum would start with their mantra that carbon is only for road bikes, nothing is better than a Turner, ever, and the Mojo will self destruct if you even ride near a rock.

    I can say my wife rides a lot and rides hard and her Mojo is holding up great. It's possible she even rides as hard as the gnar homers doing 3 foot to flat drops all the time.

    Find one you can test ride and see what you think.
    Last edited by ScottW; 01-26-2008 at 03:05 PM.

  12. #12
    SMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW
    I can't compare the Mojo to a 5 spot but I can say that my wife has been on one for a year and loves it. I have ridden the bike some and think all the comments claiming it's flexy are BS.

    I knew when I saw this post that the other forum would start with their manta that carbon is only for road bikes, nothing is better than a Turner, ever, and the Mojo will self destruct if you even ride near a rock.

    I can say my wife rides a lot and rides hard and her Mojo is holding up great. It's possible she even rides as hard as the gnar homers doing 3 foot to flat drops all the time.

    Find one you can test ride and see what you think.
    I imagine your wife probably weighs a lot less than most Homers though.

  13. #13
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    Flex/smex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You mean other than being way flexier?
    If you stick your foot on the bottom bracket and push against it, than you are measuring sidewall flexibility on the rear tire. If the bike is 'too flexible' the chain will rub against the front derailleur.

    Cheers,

  14. #14
    HIKE!
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    I usually avoid stopping mid ride to twist the fame, or pushin sideways on the cranks while standing next to the bike. Odd testing protocol if you ask me. Just ride 'em back to back. Grabbing the back tire of a bike on a show room floor and reefing side to side, or twisting handlebars while grasping a front wheel between your knees tells you little about a bike's riding capabilities.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW
    I knew when I saw this post that the other forum would start with their ... nothing is better than a Turner, ever,...
    The Turner forum is a strange case of mass self-delusion

    The main (if not only) reason Turner got so popular on MTBR is because at a certain point the Burner was one of the few "real-MTB" boutique bikes (with Intense and Titus) with a Horst link (thanks to Specialzed). Back in those days the mystique in the forum was that nothing rode like a Turner Horst (note the qualifier) and ... period that's was it, a Ventana (when Shewood actually built the first Turners) was caca and the rumor was that it was actually Turner that invented the magic Horst (ops! they forgot Nicolai).

    Nowadays (with the switch to 4-bar/single pivot) there is absolutely zero difference between the suspension and geometry of, say, a 5-spot and Kona Dwang ... somehow, however, in that forum there is still nothing better then a Turner ...

    I express no judgment (or maybe a little bit) but it is a bit bizarre

  16. #16
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    Why the debate?

    What I find really strange is that there seems to be a rivalry between the Turner Homers and Mojo'ers. I ask why? There doesn't seem to be this same competitiveness amongst other boutique brands (i.e. Ellsworth, Santa Cruz, Titus, Ventana, etc). So why is there this debate of "what's best" between the Spot and the Mojo? From what I notice, Mojo'ers (for a lack of a better word) never say anything bad about Turners, specifically the Spot, since that is the most comparable Turner bike to the Mojo. But if you read the Turner forum...there is an overwhelmingly bad impression of the Mojo. Most of which is heresay and the belief that 1) carbon is just evil and 2) the mojo is as flexy as a wet noodle. I wonder why they feel so threatened. If you like the Turners then more power to you. I just don't get it when "they" feel it necessary to knock a competitor down to make their bike look better. If you really feel that your bike is so great and is THEE best thing out there, then you shouldn't feel it necessary to tear down the competition.

  17. #17
    HIKE!
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    Did you say "..there doesn't seem to be the same competitiveness amongst other boutique brands (i.e. Ellsworth........)" ?!

    There is far far far more animosity and competitiveness with the Turner forum (not to be confused with the brand) and the Ellsworth forum! FAR more. The little IBIS vs Turner thread at the Turner forum has been treated with kid gloves compared to past Ellsworth discussions. In fact, all the brands you've mentioned, the Ventana brand may be the only one the hasn't been ridiculed and derided in the Turner Forum

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    You can always count on some meaningless comment form a Turner fan.
    I agree with Davide

  19. #19
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow
    Did you say "..there doesn't seem to be the same competitiveness amongst other boutique brands (i.e. Ellsworth........)" ?!

    There is far far far more animosity and competitiveness with the Turner forum (not to be confused with the brand) and the Ellsworth forum! FAR more. The little IBIS vs Turner thread at the Turner forum has been treated with kid gloves compared to past Ellsworth discussions. In fact, all the brands you've mentioned, the Ventana brand may be the only one the hasn't been ridiculed and derided in the Turner Forum
    indeed.....Ventana somehow, even with aholes like me and squeaky owning one, maintains a certain level of neutrality in the ghey mtbr pissing contests

    UNLIKE Turner for sure (in truth, the corresponding Turner culture while it fits my 'on-line' persona is among the reasons I sold mine...that, and my Ventana loyalty i suppose)

  20. #20
    boba
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    Turner v/s Mojo

    Thoughts...I have had two Turners, an original Burner and an RFX with 5" and then updated to 6" of travel and a triple crown fork. Both were Horst Link bikes, and great in their day. Stiff, pretty and durable...but the pivot bushings were a pain to service and very expensive to replace.

    I sold the RFX which was built up to 40lbs for heavy duty riding and was too heavy to climb with comfortably. We bought our Gemini's in 03' (34.5 lbs.) when DaveTurner would no longer sell direct and the prices in Canada for a 5 spot, due to our low dollar were crazy...ie. $3500 for the frame in 03/04. Today, I would not buy a five spot...why? Now that they have forgone the Horst Link, they are are basically a well-made Kona or essentially a single pivot...the same as my Gemini. All single pivots need lots of stable platform to ride acceptably.

    Aside from the bling of carbon fibre, the main reason we are buying two Mojo's (which we have not ridden, but have on order) is the DW link suspension. In my view, the DW link and possibly Santa Cruz's Virtual Pivot and Giant's Maestro clone, are the next generation of rear suspensions and are the only way to go in the higher-end bike market. You would not buy a ten year old computer, so why buy early stage bike suspension?

    We hope to receive our two SL's sometime in 2008....hoping that the "proof is in the pudding"...Enjoying the forum...bob austin, Vancouver Island

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow
    Did you say "..there doesn't seem to be the same competitiveness amongst other boutique brands (i.e. Ellsworth........)" ?!

    There is far far far more animosity and competitiveness with the Turner forum (not to be confused with the brand) and the Ellsworth forum! FAR more. The little IBIS vs Turner thread at the Turner forum has been treated with kid gloves compared to past Ellsworth discussions. In fact, all the brands you've mentioned, the Ventana brand may be the only one the hasn't been ridiculed and derided in the Turner Forum
    You misunderstood what I meant...

    I should clarify by saying that the "other" forums aren't nearly as opinionated (trying to be polite) when it comes to the "other" brands. I know about the ellsworth vs. Turner debate....I didn't mean that Ibis is the new Ellsworth. The homers are way protective over their brand....much more so than any of the other forums. Makes me wonder why.......

  22. #22
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    The homers are way protective over their brand....much more so than any of the other forums.
    And Ibis Homers aren't? Homers are Homers; you know.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    And Ibis Homers aren't? Homers are Homers; you know.
    I don't think you see a lot of voilatile protective posts from Ibis owners. In fact I think you see an awful lot of "ride it and ride the other bikes you are interested in and then decide" comments from many ibis owners.

    I know when I post that line it is with utmost confidence that it is highly likely that the Ibis is going to win a "ride it" test and if it doesn't then the person really is better off on a different bike.

    But then, I love my Ibis and ignorant bashing of it (more often it is ignorant bashing of Carbon rather than the mojo) can get my goat up.It seems like the board warrioring on mtbr has raised in temperature and energy since winter has settled in around the northern hemisphere.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobAustin
    but the pivot bushings were a pain to service and very expensive to replace.
    they are are basically a well-made Kona or essentially a single pivot...the same as my Gemini. All single pivots need lots of stable platform to ride acceptably.
    You're kidding, right?

    At least be factual if you're going to put together an otherwise nice response.

  25. #25
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    I don't think you see a lot of voilatile protective posts from Ibis owners. In fact I think you see an awful lot of "ride it and ride the other bikes you are interested in and then decide" comments from many ibis owners.
    I do not think the responses are volatile. Matter of fact it's a lot like your test ride as many bikes and buy which one fits you best, advice. Stick around there a bit and you'll see it's just mostly teasing in good fun. Seems like people take mtbr waaay too seriously. Keep in mind there is soooo much misinformation on these boards so take everything with a grain of salt unless you know the poster personally.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

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