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  1. #1
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    Titus Motolite, Racer X, or Ibis Mojo.

    I currently have a Santa Cruz Blur LT, but it is one size too large. I am ready to make the trade to a better fit and am considering building a dreambike out of a Motolite, Racer X or Mojo. I love the BLT but would not mind going lighter as I can with these bikes . I want what best suits me and how I ride.

    I weigh 150lbs and am 40y.o.. I ride mostly the Bay Area, Northern California. Lots of climbing and single track. A fair amount of rutty rocky technical stuff but not alot of jumping opportunity around here that I have found.

    Both Titus bikes are proven and the Mojo sounds like it will be awsome as well.

    I think the Racer X can take everything I do without a problem but am not sure of that. The Motolite and Mojo can definately do all I do but will be a few pounds more and maybe more travel than I need.

    Let's see if your thoughts can help sway my decision.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    I currently have a Santa Cruz Blur LT, but it is one size too large. I am ready to make the trade to a better fit and am considering building a dreambike out of a Motolite, Racer X or Mojo. I love the BLT but would not mind going lighter as I can with these bikes . I want what best suits me and how I ride.

    I weigh 150lbs and am 40y.o.. I ride mostly the Bay Area, Northern California. Lots of climbing and single track. A fair amount of rutty rocky technical stuff but not alot of jumping opportunity around here that I have found.

    Both Titus bikes are proven and the Mojo sounds like it will be awsome as well.

    I think the Racer X can take everything I do without a problem but am not sure of that. The Motolite and Mojo can definately do all I do but will be a few pounds more and maybe more travel than I need.

    Let's see if your thoughts can help sway my decision.

    Thanks.
    Carbon mojos are not even at dealers yet.
    Nothing pedals as well as a DWLink.

  3. #3
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    I may still be able to order a Mojo that are said to be arriving in August. I am willing to wait if that's the one to get.

  4. #4
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Carbon mojos are not even at dealers yet.
    Nothing pedals as well as a DWLink.
    Each design has it's pro's and con's. Not to mention, a good design won't fix a poor execution. (i.e. first generation of DW-link iron horse bikes)

    One thing to consider is track record. Titus has been refining their horst link designs for years, there really are no unkowns when it comes to either titus model. The ibis has a lot of unkowns. It could be a great bike, but right now there's not much besides hype and marketing to base opinions on.

    I have a Motolite and love it- I've also spent some time on a friends racer-X. The motolite frame is pretty light and is incredibly stiff laterally. It also pedals a lot firmer than any other 5" bike I've ridden- certainly lots firmer than a turner 5-spot. Great bike if you like to sprint or climb out of the saddle. Handling is quicker than the numbers suggest. I can't see much advantage in going w/ the racer-X unless you really want a very light bike and ride mostly very smooth trails.

    You could always get a motolite and cover it with some of that faux-carbon contact paper, that would be hilarious!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Each design has it's pro's and con's. Not to mention, a good design won't fix a poor execution. (i.e. first generation of DW-link iron horse bikes)

    One thing to consider is track record. Titus has been refining their horst link designs for years, there really are no unkowns when it comes to either titus model. The ibis has a lot of unkowns. It could be a great bike, but right now there's not much besides hype and marketing to base opinions on.

    I have a Motolite and love it- I've also spent some time on a friends racer-X. The motolite frame is pretty light and is incredibly stiff laterally. It also pedals a lot firmer than any other 5" bike I've ridden- certainly lots firmer than a turner 5-spot. Great bike if you like to sprint or climb out of the saddle. Handling is quicker than the numbers suggest. I can't see much advantage in going w/ the racer-X unless you really want a very light bike and ride mostly very smooth trails.

    You could always get a motolite and cover it with some of that faux-carbon contact paper, that would be hilarious!
    What are the pros and cons of the DW Link design? The Carbon Mojo newness aside, nothing is 100% perfect, but I guarantee the chainstay mounted Horst link does not excel in any area over the DWLink. I have yet to find a magazine test or engineer who can objectively say it's inferior to any current fs design in terms of pedaling, braking, bump compliance...

    Have you spent any considerable saddle time on a dW Link with a properly set up shock (no platform band-aid high psi in the small ifp chamber, and 30% sag in the positive/main) on your normal riding trails? I'm thinking you'd find a chainstay mounted horst link bike is on par with the DWLink in braking action over bumps, but the DW has its number in pedaling efficiency in any chainring whether seated or standing.

  6. #6
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    I'd go for a mojo. Its going to be a great bike.
    "Physics is timeless. Marketing and bs never lasts. Thats been proven time and time again."
    -Dave Weagle

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Each design has it's pro's and con's. Not to mention, a good design won't fix a poor execution. (i.e. first generation of DW-link iron horse bikes)

    One thing to consider is track record. Titus has been refining their horst link designs for years, there really are no unkowns when it comes to either titus model. The ibis has a lot of unkowns. It could be a great bike, but right now there's not much besides hype and marketing to base opinions on.

    I have a Motolite and love it- I've also spent some time on a friends racer-X. The motolite frame is pretty light and is incredibly stiff laterally. It also pedals a lot firmer than any other 5" bike I've ridden- certainly lots firmer than a turner 5-spot. Great bike if you like to sprint or climb out of the saddle. Handling is quicker than the numbers suggest. I can't see much advantage in going w/ the racer-X unless you really want a very light bike and ride mostly very smooth trails.

    You could always get a motolite and cover it with some of that faux-carbon contact paper, that would be hilarious!
    I could not agree more with FM. See the link below to my first real ride on the Motolite. I am not just trying to push this bike, know that. but you will not be dissapointed.

    First real ride on the Motolite
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the thoughts. FM helps me think about the differences between the ML and the RacerX. I am surprised that one inch of travel less on the RacerX would make it that much more of a smooth trail bike. Keep it coming if there's more.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    Thanks for the thoughts. FM helps me think about the differences between the ML and the RacerX. I am surprised that one inch of travel less on the RacerX would make it that much more of a smooth trail bike. Keep it coming if there's more.
    As I said in my post review, I am stunned at how stiff the MotoLite is whilst standing and hammering, super stiff, a blast really. And I never had the Pro Pedal wound on full, I set it in Med and leave............I have just come off a great Ellsworth Id that enjoyed imensly, but could not stand and hammer like this ML................... The option of being able to drop it to a 4 inch travel ML is a good thing I guess for the odd race. For me now though I am thinking, the difference wouldnt be that large, could be well wrong.................... 5 inch is a good number, lets you do that much more than 4 inches....................Good luck either way, that Mojo is a stella looking frame and bike, would liek to hear more reviews myself, they have really hyped it up, hyping it with the companies past efforts. Not saying it will not be magic, but I need to see some reviews...................
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    What are the pros and cons of the DW Link design?

    Have you spent any considerable saddle time on a dW Link with a properly set up shock (no platform band-aid high psi in the small ifp chamber, and 30% sag in the positive/main) on your normal riding trails?
    The pro's are as you've stated- it's a good design. The potential con's are with maintenance, same as with VPP designs. You have a lot of bearings in close relation to each other, with the swing-arm acting as a long lever on those bearings. Most likely the cranks must be removed to replace or even just tighten the bearings? I am not sure on the mojo- what happens if you are out riding and the pivots loosen up, can they be tightened on the trail? How often will the bearings need to be replaced if you ride in wet conditions? will replacing the bearings frequently damage the frame? What are the diameters of the bearings- smaller typically means shorter life-span....

    No I haven't riddden a properly set-up DW link frame on my typical trails (Wa. and BC XC an FR)- I don't think there is currently one on the market that I would consider either, unfortunately... nothing against the design, just the execution by the manufacturers currently using the design. If Turner, Kona or Titus adopted VPP then I would consider it. But I have no complaints with my current bikes.

    Please don't think I am no open to the ibis being a fine bike! It's just that over the years, I have broken several FS frames... every time I leaped on the "next great thing" it ended up being a bust. So now I am very cautios about adopting new technology- if it's not been proven and refined with by having been availabe for 1-2 years then I am not interested yet- I've gone down the "consumer guinea pig" road before and just ended up wasting a lot of money. just my humble .02c.

    Noshortcuts- I think the difference between 3, 4" and 5" has a lot to do with Titu's execution- the motolite in 5" mode feels like a 3.5" bike until you hit something, then you may get all 5".
    Last edited by FM; 06-25-2006 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    The pro's are as you've stated- it's a good design. The potential con's are with maintenance, same as with VPP designs. You have a lot of bearings in close relation to each other, with the swing-arm acting as a long lever on those bearings. Most likely the cranks must be removed to replace or even just tighten the bearings? I am not sure on the mojo- what happens if you are out riding and the pivots loosen up, can they be tightened on the trail? How often will the bearings need to be replaced if you ride in wet conditions? will replacing the bearings frequently damage the frame? What are the diameters of the bearings- smaller typically means shorter life-span....

    No I haven't riddden a properly set-up DW link frame on my typical trails (Wa. and BC XC an FR)- I don't think there is currently one on the market that I would consider either, unfortunately... nothing against the design, just the execution by the manufacturers currently using the design. If Turner, Kona or Titus adopted VPP then I would consider it. But I have no complaints with my current bikes.

    Please don't think I am no open to the ibis being a fine bike! It's just that over the years, I have broken several FS frames... every time I leaped on the "next great thing" it ended up being a bust. So now I am very cautios about adopting new technology- if it's not been proven and refined with by having been availabe for 1-2 years then I am not interested yet- I've gone down the "consumer guinea pig" road before and just ended up wasting a lot of money. just my humble .02c.

    Noshortcuts- I think the difference between 3, 4" and 5" has a lot to do with Titu's execution- the motolite in 5" mode feels like a 3.5" bike until you hit something, then you may get all 5".
    All good points. FWIW, I have a Titus Racer X hanging in my garage (sold it to friend who is out of country, and I'm freshening it up for him), used to own a Intense Tracer (horse link, chainstay, oft considered the best all-around trailbike), an Intense 5.5, and a Santa Cruz Superlight. All had their good and could-be-better points, but after I put aside the disdain for the Iron Horse name, I found it was a better performer than any of the aforementioned in every imaginable way. Even the likes of Jeff Steber can't say DWLink is inferior to VPP; I've had discussions with him, and flat out asked where he thought Dave Weagle's (sp) design was inferior to VPP or Horst Link. I'm still waiting for a reply.

    And yes, the crankset has to be removed for access to two bearings. That's why we use loc-tite, kids, so we're not in the middle of a muddy downpour looking for the pivot bolt that fell out somewhere between "this is gonna be sweet" and "what's that noise?"

    You should ride a Sunday or 7Point. Leave your checkbook at home cuz you'll probably want to buy it post-ride.

  12. #12
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    Most of you have probably seen there is a review of the new (but preproduction) Ibis Mojo in the July Mountain Bike Action and a rider impression in July's Mountain Bike Magazine. MBM picked it as there favorite All Mountain bike over Mongoose Teocalielete, fisher Fat Possum, Nicolai Helius FR, and Scott Ransom Limited. Would be nice if Titus and Santa Cruz were included. MBM list their large frame set up at 24.42lbs. Maybe a bit less than a Motolite set up for weight savings? While both reviews are glowing, I do wonder how much is hype to jump start sales for the new Ibis startup. Then again, reviews are good, bike looks good, and the price is fair in comparison.

    If I decide on Ibis, it would be sane to wait until next year and see how the production units fair under real use.

  13. #13
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    I wrote Ask RC the question I posted here on new bike choice. His vote was to wait for next year (since they are sold out) and get the Ibis Mojo with Fox X front fork. Turns out a LBS had one small frame coming in August that was not claimed yet. I made the deposit.

    A little scary since it is a new production bike. On the other hand it will be the best priced long travel carbon bike out there. I also am encouraged after emailing Ibis a couple of questions and got immediate responces from Mr. Ibis himself.

    Anyway, I'll be sure to let mtbr.com-ers know how the bike works for me so others can more easily decide if it is a bike for them as well.
    Last edited by noshortcuts; 07-17-2006 at 07:08 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    I wrote Ask RC the question I posted here on new bike choice. His vote was to wait for next year (since they are sold out) and get the Ibis Mojo with Fox X front fork. Turns out a LBS had one small fram coming in August that was not claimed yet. I made the deposit and am commited.

    A little scary since it is a new production bike. On the other hand it will be the best priced long travel carbon bike out there. I also am encouraged after emailing Ibis a couple of questions and got immediate responces from Mr. Ibis himself.

    Anyway, I'll be sure to let mtbr.com-ers know how the bike works for me so others can more easily decide if it is a bike for them as well.
    Nice. Ibis is based in Aptos, which means you're supporting a local biz. I like the looks of the geometry of the Mojo, which seems to be similar to my 575. And while the Titus bikes are nice they don't quite have the drool factor of the Mojo.

  15. #15
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    I was looking at the same bikes, and some others...I didn't like the geometry or suspension system on the Titus bikes. I didn't like the Epiphany either, didn't feel solid to me and again, the suspension seemed TOO active.

    My 2nd favorite bike was the VPP Blur LT, I actually went in thinking I would like an XC better, but much preferred the LT after riding both. I think the LT offers much travel and little cost. Great climbing bike as well.

    But, in the end, I ended up with an IBIS mojo. (still haven't rec'd it yet, but it should be here any day). I spent a lot of time playing with the various suspension systems on http://www.bikechecker.com/ and find the characteristics of the DW-link to be pretty good - a lot like the Blur's VPP actually. I spent a bunch of time talking to Scot and Tom at IBIS and they convinced me based on their responses to all my questions...Very classy and competent guys. I was really impressed with their knowledge and accessability as well. Finally, I like to support small operations like this. I think the product they have is very compelling.

    I'm going to to a full-custom build. See the build thread I posted on the custom forum for more info, including the build specs of the SX and SL versions of the bike. I already have the Industry Nine wheels on order.

    -Mark

  16. #16
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    Ibis Mojo

    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    I currently have a Santa Cruz Blur LT, but it is one size too large. I am ready to make the trade to a better fit and am considering building a dreambike out of a Motolite, Racer X or Mojo. I love the BLT but would not mind going lighter as I can with these bikes . I want what best suits me and how I ride.

    I weigh 150lbs and am 40y.o.. I ride mostly the Bay Area, Northern California. Lots of climbing and single track. A fair amount of rutty rocky technical stuff but not alot of jumping opportunity around here that I have found.

    Both Titus bikes are proven and the Mojo sounds like it will be awsome as well.

    I think the Racer X can take everything I do without a problem but am not sure of that. The Motolite and Mojo can definately do all I do but will be a few pounds more and maybe more travel than I need.

    Let's see if your thoughts can help sway my decision.

    Thanks.
    I'm in the north SFBA. I can feel your "pain", a lot of climbing if you wander off the municipal bike paths! But we are really fortunate to be able to ride all year in temperate micro-climates.

    I've got a deposit on a Mojo for a couple months now. I've been burned by first year models before, and usually wait at least 6 months before buying a new model to hear real reviews first. But I've ridden 3 different DW-Links near this travel, Hollowpoint, Mkiii, and Independent fabrications versions. And it clearly pedals the best, the most bump compliant pedal reactivity with the least rider induced suspension motion of any design available. And very few others brake as well with this much travel as the later DW-Linked MKiii, without noticeable stiffening or jacking. The frame geometry is spot on for 5.5 inch travel bike not needing platform or firm compression damping, at 69/73 f/r. I've seen the prototypes and it's highly refined functional art, much better looking in person than pictures show. There are no weak links in the design or components. And the warrantee is best in the business. I put a deposit down on one because at the rate they are shipping and the low rate of production, it could be a year or longer wait if I wait for the early owner reviews.

    I'm getting the $3,2K full build with Float-R/RP23/SramX-9/FSA/Crossride/Kenda-Nevegal/Hayes/fisik/Ibis-post-stem-handel-bar component build, and may swap to my UST Mavic wheels. But today at the Nationals at Infineon I demoed the '07 XTR (speced for the $4,5K Mojo build). The new XTR is very impressive. So another $15 per month dept interest for an extra 3 months it would take me to pay off the extra debt (If I can quit my recent bout of up-blinging!).

    I'll be replacing my trusty Tracer after 4 years, which is a little plusher than the RacerX. The MotoLite is very impressive riding too, more plush than the Tracer and climbs just about as well and can be shortened to 4 inch travel to very similar performance. The Iron Horse MKiii is a better pedaler than either, but a little heavier, although the 07 Mkiii spec should drop to Moto-Lite and Tracer weight and have about the same handling geometry as the Mojo.

    The Mojo is claimed at 5.5 pounds with RP23 to be lighter than the aluminum RacerX of the same size, and 1/2 pound lighter than the Moto-Lite. I think it's going to be a great climber, and great handling too.

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  17. #17
    I'm Riding It
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    I say Ibis Mojo only because its cool to support a small company.
    I'm pretty sure the Mojo is a bit more versatile and a tad bit more travel than the others, but it all comes down to personal preference.

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