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  1. #1
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    Thinking of Mojo HDR but Mach 6 has me intrigued. Any one have chance to test both?

    I was set on a HDR set up in 26" mode but after reading a bit about the new Pivot Mach 6 and seeing that the head angle is a bit slacker (66) with the stock 150mm fork, I am wondering if I am making the right choice. I would probably stick a 160mm on there anyway and raise the BB a tad but I like the HA being slack.

    My concerns about the Mach 6 is that the wheelbase is a bit longer and it may not be as agile, but i like that in 27.5 mode it has more travel (155mm) than the HDR in 27.5 mode. Part of the reason I was stuck on 26" wheels was because I could get more travel on the HDR with this setup.

    That all being said, I am not necessarily sold on 27.5 for technical drops, twisty's etc. but am open minded to the possibility that it could be successful in this area.

    has anyone tested both and noticed significant differences? I would want a bike that has pop and is playful and not as wallowy. I have had a great history with my old original Ibis mojo and love the company but maybe I am partial to them. thanks!

  2. #2
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    Why not get an Angleset or a Works headset for the HD-R? That could slacken it out a degree to a degree and a half. Then you can have slack and 26" wheels

    If you run a 66 degree 150mm travel bike with a 160mm fork, it will slacken it half a degree and raise the BB about 4mm if I remember correctly. So the Mach 6 would be even more slack at 65.5 degrees.
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  3. #3
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    Short of DW chiming in, only a very small handful of folks will have any time (much less significant experience) on both the HDR 650b and Mach 6. So, I'd take any "experience" opinions with an enormous grain of salt. That being said, I totally see where you are coming from.

    I have been riding an Ibis since I first got a Mojo in February of 2009. I love nearly everything about Ibis bikes. I currently ride a first generation HD and my wife has a 26" HDR. However, I fall in the same camp as you that the Mach 6 is more of what I was thinking of from a numbers perspective when it comes to a new 650b frame. I like the geo and travel a bit better on the Pivot and would lean towards it if I was buying a new bike this next month. The only difference is that I know Pivot has a bit of a sportier suspension tune on the DW link. I really really like that tune for XC riding (i.e. Mach 5 v. Mojo or SLR), but I was never very impressed with the Firebirds that I've been on relative to the HD/HDR. If the Mach 6 is a souped up Mach 5.7c, then I have a feeling its going to be an awesome awesome bike. Not to say the HDR isn't, but I'd personally lean Mach 6 on a numbers basis only if I was going to commit to the 650b switch.

  4. #4
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    Havent ridden one, but met one of the Aussie bike mag testers from Flow mag the other day over here, doing they're top 10 trails in RotoVegas and he was on a Mach6 we didnt discuss bikes, but I thought it looked sick much nicer in person.

    I guess the extra travel is more beneficial, I would just say that the HD/HDR is very versatile and not many bikes can compete on that level.

    Only you can decide if one has more benefits over the other, either way I think both bikes imo are pretty stunning!

  5. #5
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    I was able to demo a Mach 6 on my local trails a week or so ago and could compare it to my HD. As expected the travel felt the same and pedaling as well and to be honest I was really surprised with how well the new Float X performed compared to my DBAir.

    I took out the Mach 6 more to see how the 650B thing would be and it was exactly as I expected fitting right in-between the 29 and the 26. 29ers always felt fast over terrain but when the trail got tight and twisty those wheels felt big and when it came time to play in the air the 29er just wasn't as fun as the 26. The 650b didn't feel anywhere as big as the 29er in the tight sections and in the air it was just a bit bigger feeling than a 26 but nothing I couldn't get use to. On the flat and climbs I was faster than my 26 and it felt easier and faster. Cornering was good and I felt the grip level was a bit better than my 26.

    I took an XL out as I ride an XL HD and I really like how the bike fit as it seems a bit longer and more what I would expect an XL to fit like where as the XL HD always felt more like a large to me. with the Mach 6 I had that sit in the bike feeling instead of on top the bike feeling I have with my HD.

    I did not like the cable routing around the rear shock but I did love the fact that the rear seat stays did not rub my calfs like the HD does.

    To sum it up the Mach 6 was a great bike and felt like my HD which is great. The ride was not better enough for me to sell my HD and move to the Mach 6 but should something happen to my HD I would buy a Mach 6 to replace it as it has the amount of travel I like, has a bit bigger feel in the XL, doesn't rub my calfs when I ride, and is a great compromise between the to big 29er and the not as good rolling over stuff 26er.

  6. #6
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    I ride a Mojo SL, so I can not compare the HDR (mine's on order) directly to the M6, however, I did get to demo a M6, and didn't much care for it. I think the long wheelbase coupled with the 66 HA made it feel a bit sluggish, harder to toss around. Otherwise the suspension and pedaling characteristics were very similar to ibis. The 650b is very apparent on climbs and over chunder.

    If only it weren't so damned ugly. that huge parabola of a top tube? and the paint job looks like the power rangers use this bike.

  7. #7
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    I want the Ibis Ride...

    Bikes are more then numbers on a sheet. I've been riding Ibis bikes for a long time, and there is an Ibis Ride. All bikes have a character and they differ in ways subtle and significant.

    Same goes for Pivot. I've gotten several good long rides in on the 5.7c and the 429c. They are great bikes, but they ride differently from other DW setups. It's hard to pin down, but the Ibis DW feels a bit more lively and the Pivot DW feels a a bit more dead to me. This is purely opinion.

    The HD has been the single best riding mountain bike I've ever owned. I've been riding for a mad long time, over vast varieties of terrain.

    This is the single biggest factor in my choosing the HDR. The Pivot is a fine choice, but for me, the bottom line is the actual experiences I've had on the HD and my other Ibis bikes: I know the Ibis Ride and I love it.


    ( I also detest the Pivot aesthetic; Power Rangers style is too kind )
    - -benja- -

  8. #8
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    I totally agree with you on the Pivot bikes not feeling as good as the Ibis until the Mach 6. I have ridden the other pivots and never liked them as they felt very harsh and just not plush or active. The Mach 6 though felt just like my HD in almost every way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murchman View Post
    I totally agree with you on the Pivot bikes not feeling as good as the Ibis until the Mach 6. I have ridden the other pivots and never liked them as they felt very harsh and just not plush or active. The Mach 6 though felt just like my HD in almost every way.
    Earlier, I had a question on why the DW link feels different with Ibis and Pivot. That thread is here:
    Suspension questions on Ibis

    Not sure if that applies with the Mach 6, but I'm not a fan of the feel of the Pivots. Like Benja55, I really like the smaller fitting and playful feel of the Ibis bikes. It's quite the departure from what i used to ride (Ventana bikes, which feel more old school with an XC bias) . The Ibis was a breath of life needed in my riding for quite some time.
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  10. #10
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    Lets call it different rather than good to avoid blatant homerism. I prefer the feel of Ibis's DW link tune as well, but I understand why others prefer Pivot's tune.

    On the Mach 6 frame, I agree that the blue is a terrible terrible color, but the stealth black and red looks sooo good. The HDR reverse vitamin-p looks great too, but the vitamin-p paint is the least durable stuff I have ever encountered on a bike. If its not covered by frame tape, its going to be gone in a few rides.

  11. #11
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    According to the pivot guys at the demo the Mach 6 was designed differently in the suspension then any of the other models and was designed more for all mountain.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    Lets call it different rather than good to avoid blatant homerism. I prefer the feel of Ibis's DW link tune as well, but I understand why others prefer Pivot's tune.

    On the Mach 6 frame, I agree that the blue is a terrible terrible color, but the stealth black and red looks sooo good. The HDR reverse vitamin-p looks great too, but the vitamin-p paint is the least durable stuff I have ever encountered on a bike. If its not covered by frame tape, its going to be gone in a few rides.
    I don't think anyone here was being a homer and going to lynch someone for getting a Pivot over an Ibis. Free will, ya know?

    If Pivot did change their suspension implementation so it doesn't feel as harsh, I would be interesting in test riding the Mach 6, just for kicks. Not going to replace my Ibis, but it's interesting to see how suspension implementations and bike designs change, even within the same company.

    Everyone here seems to be pretty realistic that not everyone is going to like the same bike or suspension design and crucify them here.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    I don't think anyone here was being a homer and going to lynch someone for getting a Pivot over an Ibis. Free will, ya know?

    If Pivot did change their suspension implementation so it doesn't feel as harsh, I would be interesting in test riding the Mach 6, just for kicks. Not going to replace my Ibis, but it's interesting to see how suspension implementations and bike designs change, even within the same company.

    Everyone here seems to be pretty realistic that not everyone is going to like the same bike or suspension design and crucify them here.
    I meant it as a suggestion, not an accusation. Folks on this and every other part of this form love to throw around negative terms when describing another bike. It's the same story you get when you go to a shop and drop the name of a brand they don't carry. It's annoying and makes it really hard to get good information. "Good" v "Bad" is too subjective and not helpful when comparing minor differences in high end frames. I think its more helpful to focus on real characteristics of the bikes' handling.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    I meant it as a suggestion, not an accusation. Folks on this and every other part of this form love to throw around negative terms when describing another bike. It's the same story you get when you go to a shop and drop the name of a brand they don't carry. It's annoying and makes it really hard to get good information. "Good" v "Bad" is too subjective and not helpful when comparing minor differences in high end frames. I think its more helpful to focus on real characteristics of the bikes' handling.
    That's what makes people here cool Thanks for clarifying.

    I agree on the "good" vs "bad" comparison. I don't think there's anything bad about the Pivots. They make great bikes, and I'm sure I'll end up test riding them in the future. My other bike is a Yeti, so I'm fairly vendor agnostic at this point since it's so hard for me to find something that fits. I ride a small frame, and Ibis and Yeti are nice enough to make ones that fit me and have the feel I want.

    As for colors of any bike manufacturer, well, that's another discussion for another thread.
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  15. #15
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    The blue in person isn't as bad as you guys think

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murchman View Post
    The blue in person isn't as bad as you guys think
    IMO, the black is the only tolerable color scheme. Of course, any bike is better looking dirty.
    - -benja- -

  17. #17
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    Wow, thanks for all the replies! I think it will be some time before I pull the trigger since I am so on the fence. The guy at my local shop is testing both this week and hopefully they will get a test of each sometime this fall at the shop but we will see. It will be good to hear both HDR and Mach 6 reviews in the near future. I'll really have to at least test the Mach6 to make a choice.

  18. #18
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    a bikeco shock is 147mm which is more than enough for a 650 bike. That being said, I will stick with Ibis.. customer service is there.. buddy has broken 3 firebird frames.. he has spent more time without his firebird than with it over the past year or 2..
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Of course, any bike is better looking dirty.
    Just like women (or men)!

    I already have a Mach 6 on order, but it won't be here for a while. The difference between the 147 mod and the Mach 6 is the BB height. On the Mach 6 it is around 13.6" HDR is 14.2"

  20. #20
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    Glad you brought up the BB height I had forgotten about it. I did have a lot more pedal strikes on the Mach 6 then I ever do on my HD. I am sure I could adjust given time.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post

    The difference between the 147 mod and the Mach 6 is the BB height. On the Mach 6 it is around 13.6" HDR is 14.2"
    Actually, this is very important to me. The last time I had a bad pedal strike I ended up with 7 broken ribs, a punctured lung and a clavicle that shattered into many pieces. It was rider error from increasing rear sag on my blindside and sprinting down the trail doing lift riding but I would like to avoid that at all costs.

  22. #22
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    not sure Salespunk has the BB height right on the 147 bikeco mod, it's only .2 inches taller, so 13.5' + .2 = 13.7

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by recleaver View Post
    not sure Salespunk has the BB height right on the 147 bikeco mod, it's only .2 inches taller, so 13.5' + .2 = 13.7
    I am trying to decide between the BikeCo 147mm HDR 650b, the Mach 6 or maybe a Bronson. I've been emailing Nate at BikeCo He didn't give me the exact bb height (since it is tire dependent) but he has assured me that the 147mm bb height sits in between the stock 650b 130mm (13.5") and the stock 26" 160mm (13.8").

    I believe that the shimmed stock 160mm setup with 650b wheels gives a bb height of around 14.2" maybe that is what Salespunk is referencing.

  24. #24
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    Noted...

    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Just like women (or men)!
    True, true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    The difference between the 147 mod and the Mach 6 is the BB height. On the Mach 6 it is around 13.6" HDR is 14.2"
    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on the lower = better for BB height. It's one of those numbers that has come into vogue and people fixate over (not implying that in your case, just saying I keep seeing a lot of BB height chatter.... and it's one # among many.)

    I spent my youth riding with crazy high BB's on super slow technical East Coast, stock trials type rides and I still get in some of that type of riding, only at much higher speeds, on my full squish bikes.

    ...guess what I'm saying is I don't have a BB height number that I have to have on a bike to know it's going to ride well. For me a bit higher may be a benefit, but YMMV as always.
    - -benja- -

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not completely sold on the lower = better for BB height. It's one of those numbers that has come into vogue and people fixate over
    BB height debates can be pretty silly, especially when people compare static (non-sagged) height. A 14" bb height on a 200mm DH bike is very different than a 150-160mm AM or a 120mm trail bike. Suspension sag will eat up 20-30% of the suspension differential effectively lowering the bb height.

    I do think BB drop, the distance between the middle of the bb and an imaginary line between front and rear wheel axles, is very important. It's my experience that when the bb is lower than that line the bike corners better and I feel like I'm more "in the bike" rather than "on the bike." I think this is the biggest real advantage of larger diameter wheels; a bike can have more bb drop for a given bb height.

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