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  1. #1
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    So When Is Shimano Going to Offer A 11 Speed MTB Drivetrain?

    XX1 is awesome and so far proven. While its not quite in the budget I'd love to pull the trigger on the rear setup, while retaining a normal crank/ring/chainguide up front. Question is though; is Shimano going to release something to counter the Sram setup? I guess we will see sea otter....unless anyone here knows anything?

  2. #2
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    SRAM is going to X0 and X9 the 11 speed soon. They said so in a release a few weeks ago.

    It'll probably be available September/October timeframe as 2014 models.

    For now, go ahead and grab an XX1 crank as they are comparatively cheap for a carbon crank, and run a 1x10 setup until the X0/X9 cassette/derailleur/shifter come out.

    -Tom

  3. #3
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    I want the 11 speed out back. I don't need a new crank, and I don't mind running a guide so no need for the fancy chainring. Just want that pizza pie ring out back to help spin better up steep(r) climbs. Currently running a shimano 1x10

  4. #4
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    I may be wrong but I don't think you can combine with xx1 stuff out back with a non-xx1 crank. You CAN use the xx1 with non 11 speed stuff though.

  5. #5
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    The only difference is the chain. And if I recall correctly, the chain works on regular chain rings

  6. #6
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    The only thing that I don't like about xx1 is the 10T cog that you would have to change the freehub just to accomodate that. I hope shimano will make something to counter this.

  7. #7
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    11-43!

  8. #8
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    I'd wait til sea otter. You going this year yody?

    lets ride!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    11-43!
    You'd need 11-46 to be the same ratios, but I agree with the direction. Not like a 42T is small already...special 10T hub is dumb if the goal is a quick transition of the industry and world domination.

  10. #10
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    Except that

    a) the current free hub design kinda sucks. Admit it.
    b) if you forgot about costs and standards for a second, the XD1 driver is an actual better design, idea, and implementation of attaching a cassette to a wheel

    Soooo, what do you do? Try to sign on to the old sucky standard, or say "the path to world domination is to come up with something ACTUALLY BETTER and get others to use it"?

    -Tom

    edit: disclaimer, I'm a SRAM mountain, Shimano road kind of guy. I like the big "click" you get out of a SRAM X0/XX shifter that you don't out of XT/XTR And I hate the SRAM Double Tap road stuff compared to the way Shimano road shifters work.

  11. #11
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    Never had an issue with the freehub on any of the 8 or so brands I've used...So not sure what needed fixing. Not that everything can't be made better, but the word "standard" has become a loose term these days.

    I don't care about clicks...I care about things just working when I use them without being finicky...9 speed SRAM was that to a tee...2x10 speed, much less so, type 2 works great on some bikes, clunks on others...SRAM needs to get their ducks aligned before moving forward. Hammerschmidt was the only crazy evolutionary drivetrain product that killed it in many years and they failed to give that the continued R&D support it needed to take off.

    Like you I'm on SRAM mountain and Shimano road stuff, but right now it's strictly due to not wanting to buy a completely new drivetrain for several bikes.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler View Post
    Never had an issue with the freehub on any of the 8 or so brands I've used...So not sure what needed fixing. Not that everything can't be made better, but the word "standard" has become a loose term these days.

    I don't care about clicks...I care about things just working when I use them without being finicky...9 speed SRAM was that to a tee...2x10 speed, much less so, type 2 works great on some bikes, clunks on others...SRAM needs to get their ducks aligned before moving forward. Hammerschmidt was the only crazy evolutionary drivetrain product that killed it in many years and they failed to give that the continued R&D support it needed to take off.

    Like you I'm on SRAM mountain and Shimano road stuff, but right now it's strictly due to not wanting to buy a completely new drivetrain for several bikes.

    Clearly people dont read, can't or won't, XX1 was not desinged to improve the existing cassette body for every group set, the XD driver body came about to provide the nessecary gear ratios suitable to a true single ring solution for this groupo.

    This is only one part of a group as a whole.

    XX1 is also not finicky its set and forget, as usual doing it right is key, Ive been around cycling a long time and Ive seen this every-time a new group comes out and yes it happened with 9spd as well, the difference was it really was just adding another gear and each time we had our challenges.

    I was a fan of HS too. But it had one fundamental problem it is not compatible with the many designs and linkages out they're, sometimes great ideas just don't fit the market. Just too many obstacles to overcome.

    No one is saying and lest of all Sram to get rid of your 10spd or even 9spd setups if thats what YOU want, there is nothing wrong with a good 2x10 setup well, other than a front derailluer.

    Nothing is perfect and never will be, but this is one group that performs for the price! Unlike a number of other high end parts I could name, under performing suspension mainly.

    If you dont like XX1 fine dont buy it, it was never intended for the masses. Even when it becomes available for X9, X0 it will only suit those who understand it. Eventually it will filter down to bikes and hubs etc etc and will be better dialled into accept existing designs without much ado and people will finally be riding mountain bikes not road bikes with nobbies.

    It will happen because it does what many groups have failed to do before not lest HS! it will lower cost, be much simpler maintenance, lower cost of replacement parts less is more and less time messing around and more time riding and with better mtn gear ratios, until you've tried it for sometime this one will miss many its hard to grasp but it does.

    If you want other options now to run an expanded rear cluster setup matching your exisitng 10 speed then maybe this is an option for you rather than trying to butcher a group that was designed to work together from the ground up, its no wonder people will have problems, just don't blame Sam for that, again its clear why this is a standalone group set, think about it.

    From Spokemag

    General Lee cassette option, use google translate if you don't speak Italian.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler View Post
    You'd need 11-46 to be the same ratios, but I agree with the direction. Not like a 42T is small already...special 10T hub is dumb if the goal is a quick transition of the industry and world domination.
    Problem is the top end. An 11-32 will spin out around 25 mph for most people with a normal cadence. I am running a 38T with my XX1 because I like a slow cadence while descending.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Problem is the top end. An 11-32 will spin out around 25 mph for most people with a normal cadence. I am running a 38T with my XX1 because I like a slow cadence while descending.
    38t wth!

    Where do you ride no wonder people want big wheels

    How can you spin out of corners if too big a gear, I notice Anne C using a 30t, no doubt this would change depending on terrain courses etc

    For racing I could go to a 34t but rarely do I top out and I would like more technical trails, 38t would just kill me here.

  15. #15
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    Does General Lee cassette option compatible with shimano 10 speed cassette and rd?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    XX1 is awesome and so far proven. While its not quite in the budget I'd love to pull the trigger on the rear setup, while retaining a normal crank/ring/chainguide up front. Question is though; is Shimano going to release something to counter the Sram setup? I guess we will see sea otter....unless anyone here knows anything?
    Hey Yody, I was told by a shamino rep that it may or may not happen. They have built some 11 speeds to test, but are unsure of bringing it to market. This was 2 months ago when the rep was at my lbs.

  17. #17
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    They will be out with 11 spd since it is already on DA. They said the same thing about 10 spd as well. It should be noted that Shimano's 11 spd also requires a different freehub.

    XX1 is the real deal. I have been an XTR diehard for 20 years and have owned every iteration. My love of Shimano started with XT top mount thumb shifters! My hatred of SRAM started with 7 spd Gripshift and grew unabated until this year. Understanding that background, this is the best group I have ever run. Way less noise than my clutched XTR 10spd setup. Shifts clean and not a single chain drop in two months of rocky Socal riding.

    I use the 10T on longer/straighter sections of the Enduro courses we see here. Typically I am in it at around 25 mph, but I don't use it for exiting corners

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    They will be out with 11 spd since it is already on DA. They said the same thing about 10 spd as well. It should be noted that Shimano's 11 spd also requires a different freehub.

    XX1 is the real deal. I have been an XTR diehard for 20 years and have owned every iteration. My love of Shimano started with XT top mount thumb shifters! My hatred of SRAM started with 7 spd Gripshift and grew unabated until this year. Understanding that background, this is the best group I have ever run. Way less noise than my clutched XTR 10spd setup. Shifts clean and not a single chain drop in two months of rocky Socal riding.

    I use the 10T on longer/straighter sections of the Enduro courses we see here. Typically I am in it at around 25 mph, but I don't use it for exiting corners
    Irode a new specialized enduro recently at my lbs and it had the 11 speed on there. I found it to be really notchy and not very smooth. My xtr is much less notchy and seems much smoother, but older xtr 2010 seems smoother still, but I was not sure about the sram stuff. I am like you, Shamino all the way, but the 11 speed has me intrigued. The weight savings alone is pretty big. I don't think I would get the sram one, but might give the Shamino 11 speed a try once it comes out.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibismojo09 View Post
    Does General Lee cassette option compatible with shimano 10 speed cassette and rd?
    It does state Sram only, maybe send them an email and ask if it can be done.

  20. #20
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    interim option, 1x10 11-41 XT frankencassette

    So I have a couple rides on this experiment: a 41t cog from mtbTools, standard XT 11-36 cassette, and a Miche 16t cog. (The 41t gets added to the end, and the 15 & 17's are replaced by the 16t.) So this gives me gearing of:
    41-36-32-28-24-21-19-16-13-11
    With the 32t MRP bling ring up front, that gives me a nice range of gearing for rides with lots of climbing. I'll probably switch out to a 34 or 36t up front for everyday trail rides, but for all-day mountain (Tahoe) excursions with lots of climbing and high altitude, this sea-level schlub will be happy for the additional low gear, thank you very much.

    The 13-->16 shift is a little clunky, as would be expected compared to the 13-->15 standard. But it's a small price to pay for the increased range. The third-party cogs play surprisingly well with the XT cassette. I'm not suggesting this is a replacement for XX1 by any means, but for $45 total ($35 for the mtbTools cog, $10 for the Miche) it's a step in the right direction (and fun to tinker!).

    PS: I threw on there a cheapy long cage SLX derailleur (w/clutch) b/c I was a little nervous about my medium cage XT having adequate range for the monster 41t. So that's the next stage of the experiment, to see whether it'll work with the shorter cage and chain.

    So When Is Shimano Going to Offer A 11 Speed MTB Drivetrain?-cog_01.jpg

    So When Is Shimano Going to Offer A 11 Speed MTB Drivetrain?-cog_02.jpg
    Last edited by budgie; 03-09-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    So I have a couple rides on this experiment: a 41t cog from mtbTools, ]
    i was interestd in this option too but isnt torque applied to single 41 cog going to damage freehub body? also it doesnt seem to be available anymore
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  22. #22
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    Yeah, that's something to keep an eye on, but freehubs need replacing once in a while anyway, so worth the risk IMO. I'll let you know how it goes. This is only a short term solution until 11spd trickles down, hopefully this summer.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick005 View Post
    Ive seen this every-time a new group comes out and yes it happened with 9spd as well, the difference was it really was just adding another gear and each time we had our challenges.
    8 to 9sp transition s*cked way more than 9 to 10. The first gen 9speed stuff was terrible. remember the bass worm and all the other cr*p that we had to do to get stuff to shift. Lots of folks stayed 8sp for a good while. Plus I couldn't find any good 9 speed thumbsifters except for suntour XC pro that had an extra click.

    If you want reliable find a 7 speed XT rear der with the torsion spring. now those things stayed in tune.

    Nostalgia aside, my next bike is XX1--that stuff is awesome. Anyone want a lightly used XX drivetrain?
    Our Shops in Fort Collins and Boulder www.fullcyclebikes.com -- doing the mountainbike thing since '82

  24. #24
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    budgie, any updates on your new setup? have you tried with med cage xt?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i was interestd in this option too but isnt torque applied to single 41 cog going to damage freehub body? also it doesnt seem to be available anymore
    I would think the torque is the same,if not less, than a 22-36.

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