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  1. #1
    YTC
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    Upset Scared I bought the wrong size HD

    I'm 5'10.5" on my new HD Medium and I'm trying to remain calm. I've finally gotten comfortable enough to do some extreme riding on it and I'm just feeling like the cockpit is too compact. I'm running a 30mm spacer stack, settled on a 70mm stem and a 750 20° rise bar. Even with the dropper post, I feel like my bar is somewhere invisibly under my nose, out of sight somewhere. It's somewhere down by my knees it seems. I'm coming off an Ellsworth Epiphany so this my first AM bike so maybe it's just something I have to get used to. From my viewing experience, it seemed like more extreme bikes have the handlebars much higher/more in the picture. Please help as I'm freakin' out that I was mislead on this huge purchase. The guys at Ibis said it'll be better in tight single track, which it does seem fine, but when I start hucking it, I feel the suspension is saving me rather than I'm doing full control riding.

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    Everyone's different..I'm 5'9" and ride a medium; probably fit a Large. I run a setback post and a 80mm stem on mine.

  3. #3
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    Try this fit calculator and see what it recommends.

    Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist

  4. #4
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    Sounds too small for me, Im 5'11" and ride Large with 50mm stem. Fits like a glove.

    Super Unknown

  5. #5
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    I moved to a smaller HD and have the bars closer to me. I feel it hucks better and is way more nimble in trails. An AM bike is going to feel and fit different than an XC bike.
    When I asked Ibis about sizing a few years ago they said go with a Large, I thought I knew better and got an XL. I always felt it was too big. Years later I got a new frame and decided on an L and immediately knew it was the right size.

    6'1" on a large with 725mm bars and 70mm stem.

    From my viewing experience, it seemed like more extreme bikes have the handlebars much higher/more in the picture
    I see the exact opposite. Low and wide bars are the norm. On my HD the bars are just a tiny bit lower than the seat. Extreme bikes may be pictured with the seat in a lowered state, making it look like the bars are high. Anyone riding with high bars is handicapping themselves, IMO.

  6. #6
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    If you're over 5'9" you'll likely need a large. I'm 5'9.5" with a long torso and I fit an Ibis large much better than a medium.
    At 5'10.5" you would likely need a setback seatpost + a super long stem to get a proper fit. These days, I prefer a straight seatpost and short stems.

  7. #7
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    Many of us went with the XL

    The ibis frames run on the small side, my XL is the same top tube size as my large giant.

    Glad you are happy on the large though.




    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    I moved to a smaller HD and have the bars closer to me. I feel it hucks better and is way more nimble in trails. An AM bike is going to feel and fit different than an XC bike.
    When I asked Ibis about sizing a few years ago they said go with a Large, I thought I knew better and got an XL. I always felt it was too big. Years later I got a new frame and decided on an L and immediately knew it was the right size.

    6'1" on a large with 725mm bars and 70mm stem.


    I see the exact opposite. Low and wide bars are the norm. On my HD the bars are just a tiny bit lower than the seat. Extreme bikes may be pictured with the seat in a lowered state, making it look like the bars are high. Anyone riding with high bars is handicapping themselves, IMO.

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    If you're 5'10.5 on a medium, I'll bet your seat is way up there sky high as in xc sky high. Hence you get the feeling that the bar is underneath you. Me think medium is a tad too small for you. Small-ish bike is good for tricks and stunts, but I reckon that even HD owners will spend a majority of their time pedaling it.

  9. #9
    YTC
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    Seat sky high but shoved forward

    1st off, thanks for all the posts!
    Three things:
    1. mystery: seat is sky high but shoved forward and I'm still sitting on the nose of it when hammerin to get my torsos more over the cranks. Why would that be? And how would I consider a set back post. can someone Explain this phenomenon given the frames a bit small?

    2. should I stick with the medium. Besides one reply, most said I should be on the large, but didn't go so far as to say switch. Should I bight the bullet and switch?

    3. Is it an AM thing that when climbing up a switch back I have to time my peddling to avoid hitting my up knee on the bar?

    Ytc

  10. #10
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    lol if you're hitting your knee on your bars you need a large.

  11. #11
    YTC
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    Its only on switchbacks. My son who rides AM says he has to maneuver his knees when doing switchbacks.

  12. #12
    YTC
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    Low back pain

    One more thing,

    I've noticed that my low back is urging after long technical descents standing out of the saddle with the seat down. This doesn't seem normal to me. Perhaps I'm hunched over too much on the medium.

    Ytc

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    I'm the same height and went for a large HD although I had a med Mojo Classic.
    I run a 50mm stem on the HD and a 70 on the Classic.
    Lowering the rise of the bar or reducing the stack under the stem will make the bike feel longer, so I would try that first. I have long legs and a shortish torso, long arms so I have had to raise the stem to match a high seat. You may be the opposite. Theres very little dif in the length between a med and large prob equivalent to a change from a 70mm stem to a 90 or 50 to 70. Approx 20mm diff in tt length.
    Don't panic, you are on the cusp between the two sizes as I am

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdude View Post
    If you're over 5'9" you'll likely need a large. I'm 5'9.5" with a long torso and I fit an Ibis large much better than a medium.
    At 5'10.5" you would likely need a setback seatpost + a super long stem to get a proper fit. These days, I prefer a straight seatpost and short stems.
    No no no incorrect.
    There really is no correct answer when you are between sizes other than trying the bike out, but if you're 5'10 most people get the Med, but you should always test ride a frame/bike before buying. I have test rode a large recently and bounced around on a few at the factory and I am 5'10 with a 32 inseam and my buddies who have rode my Med all fit better on my Med than a large and these guys are 5'10 and 5'11. Ibis runs big for their sizing according to people at the factory. Try a longer stem on yours.
    Last edited by mazspeed; 05-29-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    One more thing,

    I've noticed that my low back is urging after long technical descents standing out of the saddle with the seat down. This doesn't seem normal to me. Perhaps I'm hunched over too much on the medium.

    Ytc
    Lower back pain is a sure sign your not positioned correctly (often caused from seat too high or bars too low). Either try raising your bars, lowering your seat, try a setback/offset seatpost, add another 10-20mm to your stem length, or (hate to say it) try a large HD.

    BTW I am 6' on a large HD140 with 150mm forks, 9mm of spacers up to a 70mm stem. I was running my bars fashionably low on my previous trail bike (medium Intense 5.5 EVP, with 70mm stem) when I first set it up and was suffering lower back pain after about an hour. Raising (and widening) the cockpit helped cure this, although the medium Intense was still a little short for me, but i at least was riding pain free!

    *
    Last edited by starship303; 05-28-2012 at 04:28 AM. Reason: bit more clarification

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    1. mystery: seat is sky high but shoved forward and I'm still sitting on the nose of it when hammerin to get my torsos more over the cranks. Explain this phenomenon given the frames a bit small?

    Ytc
    You said this is your first all mountain bike. They usually have a slacker seat tube than lesser travel bikes. Thats why you feel farther behind the cranks. The HD seat tube angle is 71*, compare that to the seat tube angle of your last bike. The higher your seat the more it puts you behind the cranks, so if your seat is to high that will add to the effect.
    Last edited by fuenstock; 05-28-2012 at 08:44 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    One more thing,

    I've noticed that my low back is urging after long technical descents standing out of the saddle with the seat down. This doesn't seem normal to me. Perhaps I'm hunched over too much on the medium.

    Ytc
    Try decending low and loose, centered over the bike with a flat back and elbows out. If your stiff it can cause arm pump and sore back alot of times. Stay loose and let the bike bounce around under you.

    I'm inbetween sizes and always go for the smaller frame. Try lowering your stem stack from 30mm to 20mm or even better try 15mm. You can also rotate your bars a little forward. The lower stack will make the top tube feel slightly longer and rotating the bars forward will open up your chest and force you to ride with elbows out which gives better form and more control on the decents.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    You said this is your first all mountain bike. They usually have a slacker seat tube than lesser travel bikes. Thats why you feel farther behind the cranks. The HD seat tube angle is 71*, compare that to the seat tube angle of your last bike. The higher your seat the more it puts you behind the cranks, so if your seat is to high that will add to the effect.
    71* seat angle is pretty slack too.
    To add to what fuenstock says, changing frame sizes will NOT make any difference where your seat is. It will still be pushed all the way forward on a straight post.
    One of the reasons I wanted to go from XL to a L was because I had the seat pushed all the way forward, making me think it's too big. So I got a L and tried having the seat in a normal position, which killed the climbing ability for me, and caused lower back pain due to being bent over farther than I liked.
    If you go to a L frame, expect the seat to remain in the exact same place, assuming that's a comfortable position for you. Frame size will never dictate fore/aft position of the seat, unless the seat angle changes between frames.
    For my seat height, a change in seat angle of 2* translates into about 3/4" difference in fore/aft seat position.

    Over time riding position has changed for me. In 2004 I rode an Enduro with a 100m stem and setback post and thought it felt great. 6 months ago I built that frame back up for a friend and only felt comfortable with a 70mm stem and seat slid all the way forward on a straight post. Total cockpit length difference was about 2"! I was amazed at how much things have changed for me.

    I would spend a lot of time tweaking with bar height/width, and stem length before moving to a different sized frame.
    That said, I always felt the XL was a tad too big regardless of what I tried. So maybe your gut instinct is the right one, as was mine.

    Good luck figuring out your situation!

  19. #19
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    Another vote for.large. List your frame for sell, ride the Bike until it sells.

  20. #20
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    You're in the size changing boundry. I'll suggest you not to go higher than 10mm stacking. The higher front end, the smaller the cockpit will feel... and assuming you're on a 160mm fork, you won't need to add anything.

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    It's very simple:

    1. Lower the Stem Height, this will increase your reach.
    2. Longer Stem, this will increase your reach.
    3. Setback Post, this will increase your reach.
    4. Larger Frame, this will increase your reach.
    5. Or just ride your current setup and see if you get used to it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck_tacoma View Post
    It's very simple:

    1. Lower the Stem Height, this will increase your reach.
    2. Longer Stem, this will increase your reach.
    3. Setback Post, this will increase your reach.
    4. Larger Frame, this will increase your reach.
    5. Or just ride your current setup and see if you get used to it.
    succinct and remember there is only about 2/3 of an inch diff between med and large

  23. #23
    YTC
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    Too sretched out

    When bar is lower, I feel to stretched out across the frame and catching air feels scarier. One of the reasons I went to an AM bike, is to feel comfortable hitting jumps, something I never had stretched out across my epiphany. Wouldn't lowering the bar defeat that purpose?

    Ytc

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    When bar is lower, I feel to stretched out across the frame and catching air feels scarier. One of the reasons I went to an AM bike, is to feel comfortable hitting jumps, something I never had stretched out across my epiphany. Wouldn't lowering the bar defeat that purpose?

    Ytc
    If you ride a 100mm fork, yes... but riding a 160mm fork you should have enough room to use no stacking and even a flat bar... In this range, as you lower your shoulders you also lower your hips to keep your balance... then lower your complete center of gravity... then jump confident and turn faster.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    When bar is lower, I feel to stretched out across the frame and catching air feels scarier. One of the reasons I went to an AM bike, is to feel comfortable hitting jumps, something I never had stretched out across my epiphany. Wouldn't lowering the bar defeat that purpose?

    Ytc
    You have a lot of people telling you different things in here that I don't think is helping you much. Contact Hans at Ibis and let him know what you told us. He will set you straight. I personally would go with a longer stem, and not lower the bars at all. This will help you so much more then lower the stem. When I would mess about with both, lowering the stem made things worse on my hands and riding ability, lifting the stem and throwing it out was perfect for my riding style, and I think this will help you so much more. You have a short stem, toss in a 120mm and see how it feels. My guess is that it will solve all your issues.

  26. #26
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    If you can, post a pic of the bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    You have a lot of people telling you different things in here that I don't think is helping you much. Contact Hans at Ibis and let him know what you told us. He will set you straight. I personally would go with a longer stem, and not lower the bars at all. .
    Pretty sure some of us have already told him to put a longer stem on

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    You have a lot of people telling you different things in here that I don't think is helping you much. Contact Hans at Ibis and let him know what you told us. He will set you straight. I personally would go with a longer stem, and not lower the bars at all. This will help you so much more then lower the stem. When I would mess about with both, lowering the stem made things worse on my hands and riding ability, lifting the stem and throwing it out was perfect for my riding style, and I think this will help you so much more. You have a short stem, toss in a 120mm and see how it feels. My guess is that it will solve all your issues.
    2X

  29. #29
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    Sounds like your just not used to all mountain geometry. You say its to small, but then say you feel to stretched out if you lower the stem stack height. So your able to feel the bike is to small , but also to streched out all on the same size frame? You should really spend some time and play with the setup of the bike before you jump the gun and sell it for a diffrent size.

  30. #30
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    There is a lot of good advice on here, but realize fitting is highly individual and is affected by a bunch of stuff.
    Body type
    Riding style
    Flexibility
    Experience
    and on and on...
    You can change everything around and get the contact points in exactly the same place on both sizes and the difference you can actually feel between sizes will be the angle between your center of gravity and the front tire contact patch (where it touches the ground). The shorter medium will put you a little closer than the large. These days with a dropper post, you can even change that angle hugely on steep sections when you drop the seat. You are probably able to ride both / either size but let us know if you end up needing to change size and we'll try to facilitate with minimal if any expense. Let the experimentation begin!
    H

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bati View Post
    If you ride a 100mm fork, yes... but riding a 160mm fork you should have enough room to use no stacking and even a flat bar... In this range, as you lower your shoulders you also lower your hips to keep your balance... then lower your complete center of gravity... then jump confident and turn faster.
    I tried to use a wide flat bar on my HD to keep the front low, however with my 45mm no rise stem the brake levers would hit the top tube. So a bought a 20mm riser bar and still had to use 10mm of spacers so I don't damage the top tube in a crash.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3toid View Post
    I tried to use a wide flat bar on my HD to keep the front lower with my 45mm no rise stem the brake levers would hit the top tube. So a bought a 20mm riser bar and still had to use 10mm of spacers so I don't damage the top tube in a crash.
    My brakes hit my toptube. Put some clear prtotective tape where they.hit and run the pinch bolt on the brakes just a hair loose, so if you crash they rotate on the bar.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck_tacoma View Post
    Pretty sure some of us have already told him to put a longer stem on
    Yep, saw that.

  34. #34
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    120mm Boner Stem? LMAO save that for the road bikes, or unless you're 6'6" and you ride fireroads. What a perfectly good way to ruin a Mojo HD.

    I'm not necessarily one of these newer trendy cats, that just has to have a short stem, but that is a ridiculous bandaid for having a frame the wrong size. Especially since the OP is talking about hitting jumps and riding aggressively.

    100m stem should be max anyone is considering putting on a bike as capable as the HD, with 70mm being pretty ideal. Unless they just are riding XC and wanted a HD instead of a more suitable bike for whatever reason, theres always exceptions to the rule.

    Picture of the bike would be good

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    120mm Boner Stem? LMAO save that for the road bikes, or unless you're 6'6" and you ride fireroads. What a perfectly good way to ruin a Mojo HD.

    I'm not necessarily one of these newer trendy cats, that just has to have a short stem, but that is a ridiculous bandaid for having a frame the wrong size. Especially since the OP is talking about hitting jumps and riding aggressively.

    100m stem should be max anyone is considering putting on a bike as capable as the HD, with 70mm being pretty ideal. Unless they just are riding XC and wanted a HD instead of a more suitable bike for whatever reason, theres always exceptions to the rule.

    Picture of the bike would be good
    Explain how a 120mm kills an HD? I ride very aggressively and run a 120mm. Please explain how I am worse on the HD.

  36. #36
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    All the arguments aside, I would just like to comment on Hans's response.
    Wow, your are amazing. If more people ran a business like you do, consumers would be in such a better place.
    I can only imagine what kind of employer you are and how happy and loyal your employees must be to you.
    Well done and looking forward to placing my order for an Ibis in the next few months.

    Eric

  37. #37
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    A stem should dial in the weight distribution and handling of a bike, in the same way as the for and aft of the seat should dial in knee /pedal alignment. Moving these too much to try to size a bike up or down is not a good idea. To me, just 1 cm in stem length greatly alters the feel of the bike. I cant imagine stacking on stem length to fix the fit unless I also liked the slower steering. I would only make small adjustments.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Explain how a 120mm kills an HD? I ride very aggressively and run a 120mm. Please explain how I am worse on the HD.
    Weight distrubtion and steering response. Hey everyone likes something different amd rides differently. Im not gonna tell you youre wrong but if YOU cant tell me the difference than you shouldnt be making recommendations on fit and stem length. Nothing personal.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Weight distrubtion and steering response. Hey everyone likes something different amd rides differently. Im not gonna tell you youre wrong but if YOU cant tell me the difference than you shouldnt be making recommendations on fit and stem length. Nothing personal.
    Yes there is a difference, all depends on the rider size and preference. See Hans response, should tell you something right there. I think the right thing to do is experiment with the bike first and not "ride till you sell".

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    Contact Hans is the best you can do.

    IMO you're between sizes so you can get used to your current setup with small modification like mazspeed say.

    Good Luck!

  41. #41
    YTC
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    How do I post pic from my iPhone.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YTC View Post
    How do I post pic from my iPhone.
    Not sure, you should be able to upload to a picture hosting site like photobucket or something like that. They have mobile ways to do uploading.

  43. #43
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    I had the same question. Im 6" inseam is 34", arms are 36"--so Im pretty long armed, theres a name for a wingspan thats greater than your height (besides gorilla).
    Anyway Ive been riding a Large SL for the past year, generally it feels cramped with a straight seatpost 725mm bars and a 100mm stem. BUT-I got a specialized command post backlight dropper which has a 20mm rear off set. My knees now line up better with the middle of peddles and theres more room--I have a 70mm stem Ill play with, but Im guessing 80mm will be the answer.

    So theres another datapoint

  44. #44
    YTC
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    Hey Hans,

    That reply was really awesome! Sometimes, as a busy man with a lot of responsibility, people don't get how the fit of my bike is really of great importance to me, so your support really makes a difference.

    HavIng my tire patch that close to me has been a bit freaky on the heavy stuff; my forehead, btw, is right over the stem cap/stem. Also, having so much forward weight, pulling my fork up on hairy jumps requires too much rider accuracy/input so now I'm just wimping out as I did on my epiphany. Is there really a 30mm spacer rule, or can I bump up my bar til it's comfortable? I've been trying an 8mm stem but have found it to be too long both for stretched out too forward reasons and i want more direct steering input, so I'm going back to 70 which felt right. I splurged for the 750mm carbon havoc bar which claims a 20 rise, but it may be too low. Is it better to stick with it and raze the spacer stack or maintain the 30mm spacers and get a higher rise bar? I know it was a lot of questions but I promise to be a good desciple if you stick with me. I'm a 44 year old husband with 8 kids who loves to rip but I can't afford to risk a bad fall; at least if was equipment related!

    Thanks again,

    Ytc

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    I just got back into mountain biking. And I should have test rode a Large and XL. I purchased a Large SL. Bike shop had me on a 100mm stem. During steep climbs, find the front end lifts too easily. Then tried a 90mm, a bit less lift of front end. Now on a 80mm. But I'm sitting more upright. Seems Like the cockpit is cramp. During the 3 stem swap i had 3 of the skinny spacers below the stem. I tried reversing the stock Ibis 90mm stem. But it puts too much pressure on my wrist. And it made the steering real quick and twitchy. And on long rides, my back ache. The handle bar is ibis HD bar
    Last edited by tw0leftskis; 06-01-2012 at 07:57 AM.

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    Its not an HD. Wish it was. didn't mean to hi jack your thread.


  47. #47
    YTC
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    Is there anybody out there?
    I really wanna play with adding more spacers if I don't need to honor the 30mm principal.
    Ytc

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    30mm principal isn't some law. Tall people run tons of spacers all the time. As long as you have the proper preload in the headset and the stem properly clamped, the steerer tube and headtube can take the stress. If it can't, I sure wouldn't trust this bike riding like Lopes does. The huge numbers of spacers is strictly an issue when your friends make fun of you. If you can deal with that...go for it

    My question is what fork are you running? After riding a 170mm RS, I would not go shorter on this bike. I think a 180mm fork would actually feel really good on this bike cause the BB stays high in it's travel when pedaling.

    I'm the same size as you and feel a Med is a hair small, but a large is a hair big. I run the seat back from center, probably 20mm, and a 70mm stem with 10mm spacer and 720mm bars and don't hit my knees unless I'm doing something wrong. Wider bars you will hit more often with your knees in tight climbing switchbacks, but many people shift their weight too far forward during climbs just because they are exaggerating their body position more than they need to. Do you have freakishly long femurs and short arms?

    BTW - Hans is an awesome company owner to get on here and respond as he has

  49. #49
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    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
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    Yeah, don't worry about spacers. Its mostly a looks thing. I run 20mm, and sometimes a tad more.

    I found the 180 Talas fixed that low front end feeling for me. I like the bike much more with it. Even more then the 170 Lyrik. I am probably between a large and XL, because I have long legs, but stand 6' tall. I still need to run a lot of post.

    Also with the 180 lowered I still don't clip rocks much when climbing.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    The huge numbers of spacers is strictly an issue when your friends make fun of you.
    Yeah, don't worry about spacers. Its mostly a looks thing.
    Fox warns against using more than 30mm of spacers.

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