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  1. #1
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    ripley vs mach 429C vs tallboy vs other

    im getting sick of waiting for the ripley. im considering the following:

    pivot mach 429 Carbon

    santa cruz tallboy

    BMC FS01

    any other light weight frame with 120mm of very plush travel

    please help me choose

  2. #2
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    plush?? .... Tallboy

  3. #3
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    ... and if we just ... Delayed Gratification: She's a B-Yotch

    When you say "Sick of waiting" is that because you don't have a bike to ride?

    Ibis said 2012 release for the Ripley. Until it's Jan1, 2013, they're still on schedule!

    But seriously, as for your choices, I've ridden both the Pivot 429 (no carbon) and the Tallboy.

    The Mach 429 was a decent handling bike, but did not win me over. It didn't feel fun like both my Mojo SL and HD have. I want my expensive mountain bikes to be FUN. But that's just me.

    The Tallboy was fun. I could see riding that bike. But I'm also not a fan of VPP compared to DW. I've owned Blurs and a Nomad in the past and I just really prefer the pedaling feel of the DW rear.

    If I had perfectly good bike to ride but still had a Real Need to get a FS 29'er, I'd still be waiting for the Ripley.

    1) Ibis knows how to make great handling trail bikes. The 429 wasn't a POS by any stretch, but it was not a Great Handling Bike IMO.

    2) DW is the suspension for me. Both of my recent DW bikes (SL & HD) have been qualitatively better then anything I've ridden before. The fact that my HD climbs as well if not better then my SL stuns me almost every ride.

    YMMV. Have fun and ride often!
    - -benja- -

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbpri View Post
    im getting sick of waiting for the ripley. im considering the following:

    pivot mach 429 Carbon

    santa cruz tallboy

    BMC FS01

    any other light weight frame with 120mm of very plush travel

    please help me choose
    I'm also in a same kind of situation, looking for a new quality carbon 29er FS frame for next summer.

    Ripley is the surprise card I'm waiting, but if the HA is really 71 degrees and even size XL has a really short top tube like the Mojo, then BMC FS01 or Orbea Occam are the next best options.

    FS01 would be the ideal choice as it has the whole package: short CS, angles are great (73.5/70, 73/69 with a 120mm fork), suspension design seems good and the frame is super light. The only downside is that the frameset will most likely be super expensive.

    So if Ripley is a disappointment, the practical choice could be Orbea Occam as it has almost the same measurements as FS01, but the frameset is 700 $ cheaper (a bit heavier though, but still really light for 29er FS) . Also Orbea's new Split Pivot- like suspension design seems to be good based on early reviews.

  5. #5
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    I have demoed dw-link (429), split pivot (Superfly) and vpp (Tallboy) bikes. It is unclear if the concentric dw is on par with the dw-link which I believe is the best suspension design available when comparing tracking, sq edge bump compliance, isolation of brake and pedal forces, and platform.

    Geometry makes a huge difference as to personal fit and preferred handling characteristics so find a demo or a rental if possible.

    Looking forward to an upcoming demo to try the 429c, the suspension has a different tune from the alu 429. Plusher?

  6. #6
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    i currently ride a scott spark 29er pro. i looking for something with a steeper HA and a softer suspension. i had a mojo in the past and really liked the DW suspension. other considerations are Ellsworth evolve 29er carbon and niner jet 9 rdo with 120mm fork

  7. #7
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    This is how my bike purchases went this year
    started w/ Mojo HD
    decided to try 29ers so I bought and rode:

    tallboy LTc (hated it - horrible - harsh ride, no matter where the sag was set etc. )
    Jet9 RDO reminded me of lightweight build on the mojo C, cva good enough to come into play later
    Sultan (damn good, but a little sluggish)
    Went to a WFO, fun bike but it wasn't the HD. The wfo just had a weird feel from BB to seat, and the giant ht made it feel a bit comfort bike-ish.


    Read too many Derby post and came back to HD w/ 650b.

    Now it all depends on where you ride, how you ride etc.

    For the varied trail riding we do, the perfect bike would be something with the 'angel' catching feeling of the dw sus. in 140mm that is the exact geo. of the LTc -imo. I sat on that LTc bike once and wanted to love it. But that sus is only a hair better than single pivot imo. I hated it on the trail. But the geometry felt like it was custom built for me.

    So the closest thing I can get to what I want is the 650b HD.
    In all, the 650b as a bike that can be shuttled or ride an imba epic. I even go hit a dh bmx track during the week.


    If 120mm is ok, i'd wait. I bet its worth it vs what is out there. Wake me when the HD 140mm version exist
    note to self, do not read rider down forum.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by etanc View Post
    I have demoed dw-link (429), split pivot (Superfly) and vpp (Tallboy) bikes. It is unclear if the concentric dw is on par with the dw-link which I believe is the best suspension design available when comparing tracking, sq edge bump compliance, isolation of brake and pedal forces, and platform.

    Geometry makes a huge difference as to personal fit and preferred handling characteristics so find a demo or a rental if possible.

    Looking forward to an upcoming demo to try the 429c, the suspension has a different tune from the alu 429. Plusher?
    How do you compare the 3 bikes you road? Specifically what were the impressions of the Tallboy since I'm considering getting a Tallboy since I'm tired of waiting for the Ripley.

    I currently own a mojo SL and a trek HIFI 29 pro (essentially a superfly in AL). Here is how I compare them:

    The DW suspension on the mojo can not be beat for plush feel while still being efficient.
    I absolutely love it which is why I wanted a Ripley, to stay with DW link. However, the HIFI is faster on all the trails I ride (I"ve timed them over and over) and most likely it is because it feels more efficient to pedal the HIFI to me. In other words for the same amount of energy output, I go farther and faster. That is important to me because all the guys I ride with are faster than me and they are always waiting for me. So on the HIFI I keep closer to the pack. Keep in mind that most of the trails I ride are cross country oriented most of the time (a lot of relatively smooth trails) with a smaller percentage of trail style riding (technical bumps and roots and small drops - less than 1 foot). In the technical bumps and roots, the mojo is superior in smoothing out that terrain with less jarring.

    Now for the speed difference, part of the reason for this could be because I have the inexpensive ibis rims on my SL and Kenda Nevgals My HIFI has tubeless bontrager rims with racing ralphs on it (that is how it came - except for the tubeless which I added). Or it could also be the 29er wheels which roll easier, I'm not sure. But anyway, the main thing I like about the HIFI is that it seems to flow so easy and efficiently on cross county type trails and I love that feel of gliding over trails. It is also a longer wheel base bike so it feels different than the mojo. Definitely not as easy to hop and jump obstacles, but I can still do it. Not as quick to dart around obstacles either.

    The suspension on the trek is inferior to the mojo. On the HIFI I have to leave the rear shock prop pedal all times except downhill. If I turn pro pedal off, it will noticeably bob if I stand out of the saddle. Pro pedal off is OK if I really concentrate on pedaling in a circle all the time.

    For me personally, I like the 29er feel now that I'm used to it. On technical, windy, rocky, twisty downhills, (not severe trail riding but not easy cross country trails either) I can hang right on the rear wheel of my buddies, one of which also rides a mojo. I have to ride it differently, and use more body positioning and leaning on the bike to get it to carve and turn in the twisty stiff, but it feels pretty cool (and fun) doing it. On the mojo it seemed less technique was needed to ride the same trail. So it's different.

    All in all I want a 29er with 120mm of front suspension at least. I was thinking the Tallboy would be a good choice.

  9. #9
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    I'm going to clarify my previous post just a little.

    If I was doing predominately 'trail' riding all the time, the mojo would be my bike. But since much of my riding is slanted towards cross country riding, I like the feel of the HIFI 29er. But I really want more suspension than the HIFI since 100 mm up front is not enough when the trail gets more agressive and rough.

    That is why I was excited for the ripley. But since it is still not out, I'm thinking the Tallboy with 120mm up front would serve the compromise I want. More suspension for trail riding, but a 29er that still flys over the cross country stuff so I can keep up with my faster riding budies.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailNut_Tom View Post
    That is why I was excited for the ripley. But since it is still not out, I'm thinking the Tallboy with 120mm up front would serve the compromise I want. More suspension for trail riding, but a 29er that still flys over the cross country stuff so I can keep up with my faster riding budies.
    I'm the same really. I'm riding an alloy Giant Anthem 29er and love the 29er bit, but wouldn't mind a little more suspension/slightly slacker head angle. I'm also keen to make the move to carbon. I race endurance cross country stuff, but realistically, only have the one bike, so am keen for something a little more versatile..

    The Ripley with 120mm front and back, in carbon fits that bill nicely. I'm just lucky that I'm not in a rush to make (what will likely be) an expensive purchase. I'll look to move everything from my Anthem that i can (drive train etc), and simply pick up the new frame + fork

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixsun View Post

    tallboy LTc (hated it - horrible - harsh ride, no matter where the sag was set etc. )

    Wow really? I've been on a regular carbon TB for two years now (love it) and just rode the TB LTc at Interbike and absolutely loved it... of course I made sure it was set up for me and lowered the air pressure in the tires (on Demo's they ALWAYS jack up the air pressure - and it ruins the ride)...

    Within 200 yards on techy singletrack I was grinnin ear to ear.

    I too am awaiting the Riply, but if nothing comes forth in the next few weeks I will be going with a TB LTc...

    My two cents...
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  12. #12
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixsun View Post
    This is how my bike purchases went this year
    started w/ Mojo HD
    decided to try 29ers so I bought and rode:

    tallboy LTc (hated it - horrible - harsh ride, no matter where the sag was set etc. )
    Jet9 RDO reminded me of lightweight build on the mojo C, cva good enough to come into play later
    Sultan (damn good, but a little sluggish)
    Went to a WFO, fun bike but it wasn't the HD. The wfo just had a weird feel from BB to seat, and the giant ht made it feel a bit comfort bike-ish.


    Read too many Derby post and came back to HD w/ 650b.

    Now it all depends on where you ride, how you ride etc.

    For the varied trail riding we do, the perfect bike would be something with the 'angel' catching feeling of the dw sus. in 140mm that is the exact geo. of the LTc -imo. I sat on that LTc bike once and wanted to love it. But that sus is only a hair better than single pivot imo. I hated it on the trail. But the geometry felt like it was custom built for me.

    So the closest thing I can get to what I want is the 650b HD.
    In all, the 650b as a bike that can be shuttled or ride an imba epic. I even go hit a dh bmx track during the week.


    If 120mm is ok, i'd wait. I bet its worth it vs what is out there. Wake me when the HD 140mm version exist
    I owned a carbon Tallboy Carbon for 3 months & couldn't wait to get rid of it.

    I have Rip9 Carbon coming in March & really looking forward to it.

    That said I have been riding a Jet9 RDO for a year & I am a bit stuned just how good it works as a trail bike ( I didn't like it as much when I tryed a 100mm fork )

    If you are looking for a bike that is a awesome climber & super good on the down hill as well don't count out the Jet9 RDO

  13. #13
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    Has been riding alu FS 29 120mm for years, wanted to go Carbon. Did some testing with Mojo and DW really impressed me.
    Then pictures of Ripley started to appear... This is my next bike for sure!

    However, out of nothing Cube from Germany was bringing some really nice bikes to market: 140mm FS 29".
    Weight of frame: 2kg/4.4 lbs (sic!) With a great mix of components and compeitive prices I was sold.

    It's coming in November (this year :-)

    Some links:
    CUBE*Stereo Super HPC 140 SLT
    Cube Releases New 2013 29"ers

  14. #14
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    Yeah, what Muzzanic said. I've got a jet 9 rdo as well and I am stoked on it. I've got a 120 up front. Really finding it to be a "do everything" bike except I feel more comfy on my ibis for full gnar rocky downhills.

    My mojo sl hardly gets much action these days, sad to say....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtxt View Post
    Has been riding alu FS 29 120mm for years, wanted to go Carbon. Did some testing with Mojo and DW really impressed me.
    Then pictures of Ripley started to appear... This is my next bike for sure!

    However, out of nothing Cube from Germany was bringing some really nice bikes to market: 140mm FS 29".
    Weight of frame: 2kg/4.4 lbs (sic!) With a great mix of components and compeitive prices I was sold.

    It's coming in November (this year :-)

    Some links:
    CUBE*Stereo Super HPC 140 SLT
    Cube Releases New 2013 29"ers

    Cube would be a decent option if not for a couple of things:

    - ETT for even the 23" model is crazy short so the Stereo is not for the tall rider
    - Cubes 4-bar suspension is not on the same level as VPP, Maestro, Niner's CWA or DW-link.
    - Only 2 year warranty for a carbon mtb frame is quite bad. Others have 5 years to lifetime.

    Also Cube frames are only available as complete bikes so no framesets...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailNut_Tom View Post
    I'm going to clarify my previous post just a little.

    If I was doing predominately 'trail' riding all the time, the mojo would be my bike. But since much of my riding is slanted towards cross country riding, I like the feel of the HIFI 29er. But I really want more suspension than the HIFI since 100 mm up front is not enough when the trail gets more agressive and rough.

    That is why I was excited for the ripley. But since it is still not out, I'm thinking the Tallboy with 120mm up front would serve the compromise I want. More suspension for trail riding, but a 29er that still flys over the cross country stuff so I can keep up with my faster riding budies.
    Since many of the demos are held at a park that I ride, we have the good fortune to compare different bikes on the same terrain - the loop includes a great variety of desert singletrack.

    On the plus side, the handling of the TB was reasonable, Santa Cruz may have one of the best carbon layup processes; the frame was stiff and I haven't heard of any failures. Many people own them and are happy. But after riding the dw-link, the vpp sus was not on par. There wasn't any trail condition, rocks, rubble, g-outs, braking bumps, sq edge hits, rollers, that I found the vpp to be superior. It did not impress me but that does not mean a TB will not help you (light frame) keep up with your fast friends - conditioning being a bigger factor.

  17. #17
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    ok i will remove the Tallboy from the list. i agree that DW link is on the best options out there. How about Ellsworth`s ICT?? i`ve heard very good reviews too...

  18. #18
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    The 4 bar HL has been the suspension to emulate or better for years. The Epiphany would be a good choice. Maybe consider Rocky Mountain, good reviews as well and there are some good on line deals.

    A year end deal is hard to beat - Wrench Science has the jet 9 rdo frame on sale $2200.

    Another option, 650b your current ride if you ride a 26r. The Ibis HD reportedly makes for a great 650.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xizor1 View Post
    - ETT for even the 23" model is crazy short so the Stereo is not for the tall rider
    - Cubes 4-bar suspension is not on the same level as VPP, Maestro, Niner's CWA or DW-link.
    - Only 2 year warranty for a carbon mtb frame is quite bad. Others have 5 years to lifetime.

    Also Cube frames are only available as complete bikes so no framesets...
    All valid concerns, I am not that tall, they seems to have done some really nice work on the kinematics to avoid bobing with the simple Horst Link. Will be very interesting to see how it works. If DW/CVA were available with same travel, weight and price I would prefer those. LBS says Cube is very helpful in warranty cases, I hope they are correct.

    The really strong selling poin is price. When doing preorder I got a complete bike for the price of a RIP9 Carbon frameset :-)

  20. #20
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    A 4 bar with the Horst link would be a ride every bit as good as the SJ anyway, not that it made your list. Are they even available in Canada?

    Truthfully my short list is exactly the same as that of the OP, except for me it's coming down to the Tallboy LTc or the Ripley.

    As for the Pivot; The tire size/rear wheel rub issues that seem to be plaguing the Al 429 scare me, and to be honest they are Carbon-izing the 429 when they really should be 29'er-izing the 5.27. Pivot are smart people. They'll get that stuff together in a year or so. Till then 100 mm is not enough.

    I really think "believe it or not" will be the new motto for 29 er bike of the year in 2013....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtxt View Post
    All valid concerns, I am not that tall, they seems to have done some really nice work on the kinematics to avoid bobing with the simple Horst Link. Will be very interesting to see how it works. If DW/CVA were available with same travel, weight and price I would prefer those. LBS says Cube is very helpful in warranty cases, I hope they are correct.

    The really strong selling poin is price. When doing preorder I got a complete bike for the price of a RIP9 Carbon frameset :-)
    Even with the issues I pointed out, I would have probably also ordered the Cube if the top tube of the largest size was a bit longer.

  22. #22
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    i just got off the phone with ibis, they said the Ripley will NOT be out this year, they said it will be out next year ready for the cycling season.

    this being said i have narrowed my list to the following:

    jet 9 rdo
    evolve carbon
    bmc fs 01

    please share your thoughts

  23. #23
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    If I had to pick based on reviews alone, the rdo would be the one. I personally would not make such an expensive purchase without a demo unless there was no other way - no one geometry or suspension fits or feels right to all. Riding the jet 9 rdo at a demo in 2wks and really looking forward to it.

    There are some good deals to be had on this years rdo.

  24. #24
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    mtbpri, thanks for sharing.
    However, I will take any info regarding the launch of the Ripley with a quite few grains of salt unless I see it coming directly from Ibis. Ibis have also not changed the info on their website.

    On the other hand, if you have winter coming up like around here, it doesn't really make a big difference if it is delivered before or after new year as long as it is in my hands before the snow clears again.

  25. #25
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    I was told the same thing recently by an old friend / LBS owner who had just gotten off the phone w Ibis....no Ripley til early 2013....said Scot wants it to be perfect.

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