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  1. #1
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    Mojo and Rohloff hubs

    Hi

    Has anyone considered using a Rohloff rear hub with the Mojo?? This is an option I am considering.

    This would seem to get around some of the chain damage issues, provide a great drive train and given the light weight of the Mojo, still come in under 30lbs for an All Mountain bike.

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    I rode a couple of endorfin demo bikes at the recent Mountain mayhem that had Rohloff hubs. I like the idea, nice and simple, no derailleur to get ripped off, no bent hangers, a sealed hub to keep your gears out of the gloop.
    Need to be sent off for a service every 5000 km I think the guy said.
    The ride...
    very silent. 14 gears changed with a twist shift. However you have to lift off the pedals to change gear. You can't change under power. It's the opposite to a derailleur system where you have to pedal for chain to lift or drop on to the next chainring/sprocket.
    With the rohloff you can be stationary and change from 1 through to 14. Apparently it gets better as the rohloff wears in. But riding up hill you have to make sure you change down in plenty of time. Far more than you would do with a deralleur system. Takes some getting used to.
    If you hav'nt already, make sure you get a ride on one to try it out for yourself.

    You would need a chain tensioner to allow for chain growth as the swing arm moves through its travel.
    Not sure if the dropouts on the Mojo would be compatible though?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bykingcnut
    Need to be sent off for a service every 5000 km I think the guy said.:
    Actually, just an annual oil change, which is done at home. No "mail away" service required.

    You are correct about needing a tensioner on the Mojo, as well as your complaint about shifting on a steep hill under power -- definitely requires a different technique compared to a derailleur.
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    Tuned RF hub by TUNE

    Maybe of your interest. I have seen in a Spanish Magazine (Bike a Fondo) a bike with a special lightweight RF hub tuned by the German guys of TUNE.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chcmuzza
    Has anyone considered using a Rohloff rear hub with the Mojo?? This is an option I am considering.
    BTW, I've been running Speedhubs on 3 different dw-link bikes: a '03 Hollowpoint, a '05 MkIII, and an Azure.

    Asked Dave Weagle about it, and he even suggested recommended gearing for the setups.

    FWIW, I don't think that Tune version saves any weight. At least, no according to some of the other threads I've read. Sure is a pretty shell, though.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bykingcnut
    I rode a couple of endorfin demo bikes at the recent Mountain mayhem that had Rohloff hubs....

    But riding up hill you have to make sure you change down in plenty of time. Far more than you would do with a deralleur system....
    Oddly enough, that is the opposite of what I've found with the Rohloff, and why I like it. You can change gears right up to the last fraction of a second before the climb, and the gear change is near instantaneous. Under power, the only gears that don't change are between 7 & 8. However, gears change much smoother if you let off the pedal, and since the change is so fast, you can time it at the dead stroke and not even pause your pedal circle (momentary let up of power synchronized with the shift), and you can do it anywhere during a tough climb - try that with a dérailleur. Switching gears under power is a bit rough though, but doable - and unnecessary...

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the info folks.

    Does anyone know whether Rohloff USA sell to accredited dealers only?? I am looking to have a bike built up and the dealer I would like to use are not Rohloff stockists.

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Rohloff USA will sell to any bicycle dealer (if Rohloff has any inventory to sell... seems like they sell through their stock in a flash), but they also distribute through QBP and BTI (same stock-on-hand problem).
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  9. #9
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    Rohloff hubs are not all roses

    Hi Chcmuzza,

    Consider very carefully your decision to go with a speedhub. This caution is not from speculation, I owned one of these for a year and a half.

    You will not avoid chain stay damage with the hub with the chain tensioner. It is a little tighter, but it still moves and there is still chain contact with the chain stay (the chain is actually closer on the bottom to the chain stay). So you will still need to protect your stay just as much, although chain such will not be much of an issue.

    You need a big ring protector upfront. A big ring protector sticks out farther than the big ring, and caused ankle rub (actually, missing chunks of flesh) depending on the natural relation of your foot and leg.

    You get less of a gear range, either on the high or low end. A 27 speed drivetrain has a 630% range. The hub as 540%. Much better than two rings with a guard, but if you enjoy all speed ranges, this is a limitation.

    You absolutely cannot shift under any significant power. Yes, you can shift while light pedaling, but I do not consider this power. Any meaningful pedal power locks the gears from shifting unless you're the Hulk. However, just a momentary let-up does allow you to shift and shifting froma stand-still is cool. The problems between gears 7 and 8 will even show up in moderate pedal power, throwing you into the HIGHEST (hardest) gear, which annoyed me on more than one occasion. These tend to be the gears you want to be in, as well.

    Your bike will be way out of balance. A four pound hub at the back of your bike, especially one as potentially light as the Mojo, is very noticeable when jumping, bunny hopping, etc. You can get used to it, but there's way around it.

    It is way less efficient in low gears. Even when broken in. If you are in really good shape and are powerful, probably not that big a deal, but even in this case if you go from a speedhub bike to a derailler bike, even a bigger, heavier one, you will feel like superman pedaling. It is a noticeable difference.

    Any amount of use will cause the sprocket on the hub to become immovable. It is a horrible design on an otherwise engineering masterpiece. Maybe they have since fixed this, but why it wasn't a splined interface I will never know. Pedal torque screws the sprocket on tighter and tighter. I tried grease, I tried to 'loosen' after every ride, but it only took one ride to make it unmovable again. Infuriating, and will cause damage when you try to force the thing off even with the correct tool.

    If it DOES break, turn-around time is not minimal. There is only one service center, with one employee, in the US. He's good and nice guy, but there's only so much that one guy, who is also reponsible for marketing and going to shows, can do. Mine did have an issue (excessive noise after break-in, massive spontaneous oil loss, and the aforementioned sprocket issue). This was after a year of use. Maybe an anomoly, but it happened to me.

    If you really, really hate derailleurs, it may be the way to go. But in my opinion the traditional drive train is better, with the exception of maybe downhill or pure free-ride applications, which isn't the point of the Mojo. Efficiency and all around ability are the Mojo's stengths, and you will most likely be taking away from these with the speedhub. I would at the very least suggest you ride a speedhub bike before making a decision.

  10. #10
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    Shwan,

    I'm not going to rebut what you wrote, for the simple fact that your experience with the Speedhub is different from mine. That's unfortunate, but I assume the majority of Speedhub users are pretty happy and do not share your sentiments.

    Honestly, if I even *felt* the Rohloff was inefficient or cumbersome, I'd drop it like a rock. There no sense in riding a component that detracts from the ride -- whether real or perceived -- because there is no way the ride would be enjoyable..

    Fortunately, that has not been my experience, even when I owned both Rohloff- and derailleur-equipped bikes concurrently.

    You are correct on the drivetrain spread (623% for a 27-speed drivetrain, to be technically correct). The Speedhub is equivalent to a traditional 8-speed drivetrain with an 11-30 cassette mated to a compact (22-32-44) crank. Or 13-34, etc. But yeah, you have to take a hit on one end or the other.

    Yup, threaded cog removal is a bitch, and it was under-engineered. I had enough trouble removing a stuck cog this past winter that I put the following guide together: Speedhub COG removal for Bloody Knuckles!

    I'm not entirely sure about your chainring woes. A simple chainguide is sufficient for my bikes. The chainring is in the same position at the 44T outer ring of a triple crankset. I'd hate to finish a ride with bloody ankles, but after 6 years on Speedhubs, it hasn't happened yet.

    Lastly, yes, Rohloff USA is a one-man operation in Oakland, California (I think Thomas has an assistant now), and he seems quite busy with day-to-day business. But I've taken the opportunity to visit his shop on a few occassions, and he's happy to shoot the shit and doesn't seem particularly backlogged in f'ed up Speedhubs (he showed me one with saltwater corrosion, and another with Loctite in the main bearings). One reason I like this hub so much is because it's so damn reliable. Mine haven't required service, but I realize that it will be an inconvenience and major delay to have to ship an entire wheel in for service should a problem come up (nobody is going to have a loaner).

    It's unfortunate that the hub didn't live up to your expectations, and your advice to test ride one is sound. I sat on the fence for a long time before buying a Speedhub, only after finding a demo mounted to a Superlight in a bike shop in San Jose. But it took me a few months on my first one to break it in and really begin to appreciate it, after which I quickly added number two (for me) and number three (for my wife, who loves hers dearly). Different shifting techinque, new noises, different weight distribution... they're all real, and somebody who is going to live with a Speedhub either has to adapt, or move on.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Maybe of your interest. I have seen in a Spanish Magazine (Bike a Fondo) a bike with a special lightweight RF hub tuned by the German guys of TUNE.
    Someone mentioned on another thread that the Tune Rohloff hub does not offer any weight savings,just the red color.Can anyone confirm this?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoginasser
    Someone mentioned on another thread that the Tune Rohloff hub does not offer any weight savings,just the red color.Can anyone confirm this?
    http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2378

    "Endorfin have even taken their custom options a step further and come up with the 'tune-d for Endorfin' Rohloff Speedhub. Made in conjunction with Tune and Rohloff, the Speedhub shell is manufactured, anodised and laser-etched by Tune before being sent to Rohloff for assembly. While this Speedhub is no lighter than a regular Rohloff it's far more exclusive and gives more colour options than Rohloff's standard black, red and silver."

    http://www.endorfinbikes.co.uk/rohloff.htm

    "Tune-d for Endorfin

    "To take the SPEEDHUB concept to the next level Endorfin have teamed up with Rohloff and lightweight component experts Tune to produce a SPEEDHUB specially ‘tune-d for Endorfin’. This unique SPEEDHUB is only available to order as part of a complete Endorfin bike or with an Endorfin frame. It’s also available in several anodised colours including silver, black, red, blue, green and gold.

    "For more information on the ‘tune-d for Endorfin’ SPEEDHUB please email info@endorfinbikes.co.uk "


    (I post this quote only because I think they would have mentioned something about weight savings if indeed there was any.)

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  13. #13
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    Thank you!
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  14. #14
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    My views on the Speedhub.... I recently got my Nicolai Nucleon with the Gboxx, which has the Speedhub....

    It is indeed very different, I always remind myself of this, I think I owe this to the engineering adn the totally different feel it has......The 7 lower ratio gears is where things feel most different to me

    There is indeed what I feel is the Placebo effect, more noise in the 7 lower gears, hence my mind believes a loosing more power tansfer.... I need to say I have this on a FR bike weighing 40 pounds, it is going to be more difficult to pedal than my super fast 28 pound MotoLite....So hence I may tend to blame the Speedhub for somehting it is not responsible...

    I have been doing lift assisted ridiing of late on this bike, for this application, it is far better than a standard drive train system, this is also the fact that the Speedhub is enclosed in a box in the centre of the bike...So gives many benefits.....

    For me I bought this system because it is new technology, which I believe will be the future and we need to start adopting the technology at some stage..... I would really like to try the Nicolai XC frame containing the Gboxx with Speedhub to give a fair comparison.... So am happy with the decision I made, was the correct one.....
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  15. #15
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    Rohloff

    Speedhub Nate,

    Just to clarify about the bash guard. I didn't use it to keep the chain from falling off; the chain tensioner actually works OK for this. I ride in really rocky, techy terrain, and hitting the big ring on a log or rock is almost inevitable, usually, in this type of terrain, you are not in your big ring, so the big ring itself acts as a bashguard so you don't damage your chain.

    When I first got the Speedhub, the first thing I did 15 minutes into the ride was break the chain because I barely nipped a rock. The chain is just left out there because you are always in the big ring for this set-up. Since for the best chain line and correctly compatible chain ring sizes you need to mount it in the 'big ring' position, I bought a blackspire '3 ring guard' which mounts on the outside of the big ring position. Unfortunately for my anatomy, this was too close to the pedal, and I would catch my ankle on the edge of the guard like a pizza cutter. I made a custom ankle guard which solved the problem, mostly, but it was extra gear I would have preferred not to wear, and I could still feel my ankle get caught on the guard when really manuevering on tricky terrain.

    One more issue I had was with the chain tensioner. On a particularly muddy ride, it froze up and my chain lost all tension (and I do clean my bike and take care of it, so this was not a cumulative effect). It ended up that Rohloff redesigned the tensioner spring, because this issue was also happening for others. I got the upgrade, but didn't have the hub long enough after than to determine if it completely solved the problem. So, extremely muddy terrain is potentially an issue if your bike design requires the tensioner. Too bad, since the hub itself is very impervious to mud.

    I realize my experience is different from what others have posted on this site, but that's why I put it here. Whether it is that the terrain I ride is different, I ride more in low gears than others, my style is different, and/or I just got a lemon, I don't know. There is not a large volume of feedback in general on these hubs. There were many things I really liked about the hub, but in the end I felt it was lacking the efficiency and reliability it claimed (I even got a gear skip powering up a hill, and it was correctly shifted and seated at the time and not even close to the gear 7/8 ratio). I also had a handful of occaisons where I was kicked into gear 14 when switching between gears other than 7 and 8 under moderate pedal power (it would do it sometimes between 3/4 and 4/5 for me). I did feel that in general shifting was easier and picking gears more reliable even with these quirks, especially since you only have one shifter to deal with.

    I got increased noise in the hub and maybe therefore a 'percieved' sense the hub was actually losing efficiency after about a year of use. I had been changing oil and stuff, so, it shouldn't have been a maintenance problem. I sent it in (this was the second time, the first after the oil leak). When I stuck what I thought would be a temporary derailleur set-up on my bike while awaiting repair, I was absolutely shocked at how much easier my bike was to pedal. I was on the fence as to whether to keep using the Speedhub until that point. This was a very apples to apples comparison, same bike, same trails, same tires, same set-up besides the hub (even had a heaver rim). Thomas did replace the internals even though he could not find and reason for the hub's problems, and as soon as I had a fresh hub I decided to sell and cut my losses. Even after describing my experience to many potential buyers that jumped all over getting a Speedhub for less than retail, it was still and easy item to move, which may give testament that my experience was not the norm.

    I would definitely urge anyone to try to ride one before making any decision. This hub may be great for some people, and obviously it has been from some feedback that is available in reviews, but it is costly enough and different enough that it is worth hunting one down to try first. If you can find someone that has had one for around 500 to 1000 miles of riding this would be best; as this is when it is supposed to hit peak efficiency. If you're unhappy with level of efficiency of a broken in hub, you probably won't ever be happy with it. It is hard to judge on a new hub because it is so tight and inefficient for the first 6 to 8 hours that you feel like you are pedaling in mud. Think of this as hard spring training for the season if you get one. It does get much more efficient, but at least mine did not get to the level I had hoped, especially in the lower gears.

    Shawn

  16. #16
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    Shawn, a good wrtie up you have done here, please dont take form my post I was making out your experience was not true etc. I still coul dnot say if I would put this on a XC/AM bike... for my application of very little uphill riding, it is great. The low gears do not sound great. I have had it in to be checked in which it was and the agent said this is how they are till they are worn in etc..... Still tests my mind though

    Fully agree with your comments to ride one first before purchasing....
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    Speedhub

    Hi Whafe,

    I wasn't at all bothered by your or any post on this thread. Just passing along the experience. Anyone can take it as they will. The Rohloff hub is one of those products that has a small but rather fanatic following in some instances, so I was actually expecting that I might get some nasty replies, but that didn't happen at all.

    The Rohloff hub is by no means a bad product, although, in my experience, neither is it the Holy grail. I think some minor tweaks and a more focussed market would make it a very good product (little lighter, splined sprocket interface, little more efficient in low gears, more axle options (12 m m through axle compatibility), better chain tensioner, better service network (in the US, at least)). I would even personally offer a version with a reduced gear spread to mimic an 18 speed set-up (to mimick a bike that replaces the big ring with a bash guard). For free-riding and slower techical trails, this is a pretty standard set-up. By reducing the spread, you could probably reduce the number total gears by 2 to 4, which would reduce complexity, which in turn would probably also reduce weight. Until Rohloff or someone can come up with a geared drivetrain with a 620% spread, better low gear efficiency, and lighter weight, I think aiming at the general market is tough. There are some compromises that are made which for mainstream styles of riding such as XC, will generally out-weigh the hub's benefits for most riders.

    Shawn

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by quasi_shawn
    Hi Whafe,

    I wasn't at all bothered by your or any post on this thread. Just passing along the experience. Anyone can take it as they will. The Rohloff hub is one of those products that has a small but rather fanatic following in some instances, so I was actually expecting that I might get some nasty replies, but that didn't happen at all.

    The Rohloff hub is by no means a bad product, although, in my experience, neither is it the Holy grail. I think some minor tweaks and a more focussed market would make it a very good product (little lighter, splined sprocket interface, little more efficient in low gears, more axle options (12 m m through axle compatibility), better chain tensioner, better service network (in the US, at least)). I would even personally offer a version with a reduced gear spread to mimic an 18 speed set-up (to mimick a bike that replaces the big ring with a bash guard). For free-riding and slower techical trails, this is a pretty standard set-up. By reducing the spread, you could probably reduce the number total gears by 2 to 4, which would reduce complexity, which in turn would probably also reduce weight. Until Rohloff or someone can come up with a geared drivetrain with a 620% spread, better low gear efficiency, and lighter weight, I think aiming at the general market is tough. There are some compromises that are made which for mainstream styles of riding such as XC, will generally out-weigh the hub's benefits for most riders.

    Shawn
    Those are great suggestions (although I can`t say if they have improved their chain tensioner yet or not because I don`t have to use it) and I agree with you.But I wanted to say something about what you mentioned in a previous post about your challenges with shifting between 7Th and 8Th,this is the only time when your supposed to stop pedaling when you shift.But it is totally fine to shift under load between all the other gears,I was surprised when I discovered this when I read my manual because the LBS employee did not mention this and just said that I can shift under load with this hub.
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  19. #19
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    Yeah agree, that magical change from 7th to 8th, is also the change in planetary gears I believe, its the ugliest of the lot..

    A real lame complaint from me that annoys me the most is the width of the grip shifter, it is wider than hand grips, in which it needs to be, but thats my little beef, minor for sure...

    Good topic this one....
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    The efficiency question

    Thanks for the enlightening discussion folks.

    The efficiency question is an interesting one. Rohloff's website claims:

    Working Efficiency: A Comparison
    Mechanical working efficiency and likewise the amount of losses of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 are totally comparable with those of a high-quality derailleur gear system. The losses of a derailleur gear system are a result of friction losses of bottom bracket bearing, chain, sprocket and hub. The friction loss is determined by the number of teeth of crank wheel and sprocket, askew run of chain and state of wear. In practise losses are about 1% to 5%. The working efficiency lies between 95% and 99%. The losses of the SPEEDHUB 500/14 are the result of losses of crank wheelbearing, chain and gear mechanism. The chain runs straight and is moved byone big chain wheel only. The quantity of losses is determined mainly by the chosen gear respectively the resulting planet gear transmission. The overall loss of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 lies, depending on the chosen gear,between 01% to 5%. The working efficiency, therefore, lies between 95% and 99% like that of the derailleur gear system. Therefore, the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 is definitely suitable for the every day ride as well as for sporting operation.

    In theory it sounds like the efficiency should be similar but I recognise it doesn't always waork out that way

    BTW I am currently running 11-30 cassette with 44-32-22 front and the Rohloff WS suggest the 500/14 + 16 gives a similar spread to 12-34, greater than what I currently have.

    http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/sp...son/index.html

    Cheers

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by quasi_shawn
    When I first got the Speedhub, the first thing I did 15 minutes into the ride was break the chain because I barely nipped a rock. The chain is just left out there because you are always in the big ring for this set-up.
    Just a quick nit to pick here ... I am running my speedhub w/ the chainring in the middle position and bashguard in the traditional outer position. I had to go with a slightly longer spindle BB to get proper chainline, but this *is* possible ... I'm sure I'm not the only one doing this--take a look at some of the bikes on this thread for confirmation and more info:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/rohloff-club-members-invited-241727.html#post2406172

    Always good to hear another opinion however ... I am liking my speedhub so far and other than the poorly engineered cog issue you mentioned I have few complaints. I'm not sure that I'd want to change the cog very often anyway ... seems much easier just to have a variety of chainrings to install up front in case your gearing needs vary that often.

  22. #22
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    Never uses rear pinions

    Only ROHLOFF

    mi IBIS ROHLOFF






    another images fron ramaloji rohloff Mounting details

    http://www.foromtb.com/imagenes/brow...es&c=12&page=2

    http://www.foromtb.com/imagenes/brow...es&c=12&page=3

    http://www.foromtb.com/imagenes/brow...es&c=12&page=4



    .

  23. #23
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    finishing my ibis rohlof

    finishing my ibis rohlof

    I hope like it so different from the assembly


  24. #24
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    can the rohloff be run without the derailleur shaped chain guides? just the chain straight from the front crank to the rohloff?

  25. #25
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    Hello, I think it is not possible because of the suspension system. Chain lenght vary with the travel and makes chain tensioner required.

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