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  1. #1
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    Mojo or Pivot???

    I need a new ride (just sold my 07 Stumpy).

    Trying to narrow down my choices.

    I ride XC trails only (Texas...) with some racing. I am lightweight (150 lbs, 5'10").

    I was first considering an Epic (lots of deals around), but a lot of people are recommending me some of the newer designs, including the stores that sell Epics.

    Any of you compared or considered the Mojo and the Pivot?

    I saw the Pivot today and rode it around the store on a very short trail. Felt very good. I am seriously considering it. But it is very new and very few reviews.

  2. #2
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    I test rode the Pivot at Interbike and did not think much of it. Not to much cushion when it came to hitting bumps and such, just a bit of a harsh ride. I was also not a fan of the bikes geometry. I liked the Iron Horse MKIII much much better, but the Mojo is just a bit sweeter then the MKIII, they do both have the same ride characteristics. I am very familiar with the Epic having had one before. The Brain technology just doesn't work as well as I would have liked. Its not a bad race bike but not the best trail riding bike around. You'll enjoy the Mojo much more, especially when you get it on some tougher and nastier terrain.

  3. #3
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    You can't go wrong with a Mojo

    I highly recommend that you also test ride the Mojo!!! Find a dealer and get a demo. You could keep it for several days so you could ride the trails that you’re familiar with. You’re going to drop a pretty penny so make sure you get the bike that suits you best. I don’t have any first hand experience with Pivot but I know they have a DW link.

    The Mojo is in my opinion the best bike out there!!! It is very responsive and plush, the geometry on this bike is awesome. When you’re on the Mojo you get a great sense of control, whether your railing a corner, on the climbs or downhill’s you feel like a pro. Like any other bike it is very important to set up the suspension correctly. The Mojo handles like a champ on the trail and looks super sexy!!! You get exotic materials like Ultra High Modulus Carbon Fiber and a DW Link. You could build it very light in the low 20 ish LBS or build an All Mountain monster in the 27 ish LBS range. I hope this helps!!!!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet
    I test rode the Pivot at Interbike and did not think much of it. Not to much cushion when it came to hitting bumps and such, just a bit of a harsh ride. I was also not a fan of the bikes geometry. I liked the Iron Horse MKIII much much better, but the Mojo is just a bit sweeter then the MKIII, they do both have the same ride characteristics. I am very familiar with the Epic having had one before. The Brain technology just doesn't work as well as I would have liked. Its not a bad race bike but not the best trail riding bike around. You'll enjoy the Mojo much more, especially when you get it on some tougher and nastier terrain.
    I'm not going to try to sway anyone one way or the other, that would be sort of like a parent trying to tell someone which of their children they liked best, but I feel that I need to point out that the Pivot bikes at Interbike had rear shock tunes that were pretty far from optimal, and have been improved greatly since then. They Pivot production bikes will ride with much more compliance than the Interbike models.
    Last edited by _dw; 02-15-2008 at 06:01 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    I'm not going to try to sway anyone one way or the other, that would be sort of like a parent trying to tell someone which of their children they liked best, but I feel that I need to point out that the Pivot bikes at Interbike had rear shock tunes that were pretty far from optimal, and have been improved greatly since then. They Pivot production bikes will ride with much more compliance than the Interbike models.

    Dave,
    We just got our first Pivot frames into the shop and they are very sweet indeed. Love the pressed in BB and Carbon upper link.
    Great work as usual.

    Greg
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  6. #6
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    There is no official Mojo demo available in Texas

    I will go to my local Ibis dealer and see if I can at least try in the parking lot.

    They also have Titus which I have yet to try.

    Thanks!

  7. #7
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    flafonta, not counting _dw's and my comment, it is unlikely you will get unbiased advice asking that kind of question on the Ibis forum especially since there is no Pivot forum to even things out.

    I think the Mojo is one sexy bike and owners have nothing but praise for it, but if XC is your thing and you are contemplating racing, there are likely other more suitable bikes out there for you. I have not ridden a Pivot so I can neither recommend it nor trash it, but I know they offer a couple of different bikes, one of which is geared more towards your stated purpose.

    Try not to "narrow down [your] choices" based on other's opinions ... you must get out there and ride ... then make your choice from among the bikes you actually get to experience yourself.

  8. #8
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    MacGiv'er (and others), thanks for the advice.

    My problem is that it is very hard to find a store that has or that would let you try these Boutique brand bikes.

    The Pivot dealer said "just buy one and you have 10 days to exchange it if you do not like it".

    I will be heading to the Ibis dealer tomorrow morning (they also sell Titus & Intense).

    But they already told me on the phone that they do not have any demo bikes. They might let me try an already sold bike in the parking lot, but they need to ask the owner.

    And of course, both dealers claim their bike is the better choice.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    ...
    My problem is that it is very hard to find a store that has or that would let you try these Boutique brand bikes.
    And also ... try not to "narrow down [your] choices" to boutique brands only.

    Boutique brand does not necessarily translate to a better bike ... but on average they tend to have better customer service.

  10. #10
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    Hmmmm...Yes the demo ride does help. I got my Mojo cause it looked cool ( I love carbon) and the magazines had early ravings about it, but there were no tests bike anywhere in the world to try at the time. So I bought it blind. I take all opinions (even mine) with a grain of salt, you need to sift between all the chatter and decipher some half truths. But it does help. Yea, sometimes blind dates work fine, maybe yea marry them, but then again if a bunch of your friends rave about this one person wouldn't you be more willing to try it? And the opposite is true, would you date them if they didn't think much of them? Of course neither may true and it could be the perfect person for yah, who knows? So yes go on the date if you can with the bike! I am unsure how anyone cannot be biased on anything? It comes with the territory. I rode a ton on bikes at Interbike and I am sorry if Pivot did not have their shocks optimal. I can only state how I felt the bike rode, nothing more and nothing less. My fave bike at the show was not the Mojo which I also happen to own it was a Moots Mooto-XZ 29er.

    _dw must remain neutral since they are his kids. I try an voice an honest and harsh voice as is required. I love my Mojo, I still love my ancient Ultimate Epic (carbon tubes and Ti lugs), I loved my old Epic but I grew weary of her, I was turned off by the Pivot, I liked the Iron Horse, the Trek Fuels irritated me, the Rocky Mtn's and the Santa Cruz's were good comfortable friends and I had a big crush on the Moots. That perhaps was a better way to state my views on the bikes.

    I can be a critic of the Mojo. Its a bit sloppy at high speed motoring through rock fields and heavy terrain, the geometry makes the front end dive to much and it leaves a bit to be desired at riding up tough ledgy terrain and sand makes it very squirmy. And no matter what she does scratch and chip easier then most bikes, fancy rubber paint or not.

    The best bike I have ever owned is the Ultimate Epic bar none, followed by the Mojo. I have the Moots Mooto-XZ on my wish list so it might be taking a sort of twin brother seat next to the Mojo.

    So sue me if I have a biased option, who doesn't!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet
    I can be a critic of the Mojo. Its a bit sloppy at high speed motoring through rock fields and heavy terrain, the geometry makes the front end dive to much and it leaves a bit to be desired at riding up tough ledgy terrain and sand makes it very squirmy. And no matter what she does scratch and chip easier then most bikes, fancy rubber paint or not.
    Interesting and surprising critique. I get no front end dive with my 150mm fork and haven't heard others say this so I'm guessing you are wrong that the "geometry makes the front end dive". It's likely more to do with your set up. I also see nothing to be "desired" on "ledgy terrain" or in sand. Lastly, my Mojo does not scratch or chip easier than other bikes, at least not with 8mil tape on the areas that get hit most. Anyway, that's what comes to mind reading your impressions.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  12. #12
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    Ok, perhaps everyone needs to take a deep breathe and honestly evaluate the Mojo, I dearly love mine but it ain't perfect, nothing is.

    In regards to scratching and chipping, try it someplace that the tape doesn't exist, it just scratches a bit worse them most bikes, again its a comparison against other bikes.

    I ride sand all the time in Colorado (sand and pea gravel is my typical terrain, rarely have packed dirt) and I am comparing it against other bikes I have ridden and it does feel a bit squirmy.

    In regards to front end dive, this would be with my Fox RL140 set up the way it works best for me in my terrain. I think its a combination of the RL140, the way I ride, my setup, my terrain and the bike geometry, mostly the head angle in relation to the bottom bracket position. I do like a long stem so it does put me a bit forward and does exasperates the issue. But it does happen, its not a glaring one, just an issue. I can easily change my body english and take care of it.

    In regards to going up ledgy rock terrain that I frequent when I compare it against some other bikes that I have ridden the same terrain it just gets a bit out of sync and does not stay as calm. I have to pay a bit more attention to the line that I am riding. Notice I was very specific in the terrain "tough ledgy terrain" Moab is bit smoother and the Mojo does fine. Pueblo South Shore where I ride on some of the ups (which most people don't even ride) it just doesn't ride the way I feel a bike of this caliber should ride and especially in comparison to itself on other steep ugly terrain where it is a demon.



    Perhaps what everyone needs to do is pretend you are a reviewer for a magazine or the forum (which I am) and evaluate the Mojo, use the following criteria and be brutal and honest.

    Strengths:
    Weaknesses:
    Bottom Line:

    Value Rating:
    Overall Rating.

    She is a lovely creature but she is not perfect. Give it a try...

    Peace.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    Great Post!

    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet
    Ok, perhaps everyone needs to take a deep breathe and honestly evaluate the Mojo, I dearly love mine but it ain't perfect, nothing is.

    In regards to scratching and chipping, try it someplace that the tape doesn't exist, it just scratches a bit worse them most bikes, again its a comparison against other bikes.

    I ride sand all the time in Colorado (sand and pea gravel is my typical terrain, rarely have packed dirt) and I am comparing it against other bikes I have ridden and it does feel a bit squirmy.

    In regards to front end dive, this would be with my Fox RL140 set up the way it works best for me in my terrain. I think its a combination of the RL140, the way I ride, my setup, my terrain and the bike geometry, mostly the head angle in relation to the bottom bracket position. I do like a long stem so it does put me a bit forward and does exasperates the issue. But it does happen, its not a glaring one, just an issue. I can easily change my body english and take care of it.

    In regards to going up ledgy rock terrain that I frequent when I compare it against some other bikes that I have ridden the same terrain it just gets a bit out of sync and does not stay as calm. I have to pay a bit more attention to the line that I am riding. Notice I was very specific in the terrain "tough ledgy terrain" Moab is bit smoother and the Mojo does fine. Pueblo South Shore where I ride on some of the ups (which most people don't even ride) it just doesn't ride the way I feel a bike of this caliber should ride and especially in comparison to itself on other steep ugly terrain where it is a demon.



    Perhaps what everyone needs to do is pretend you are a reviewer for a magazine or the forum (which I am) and evaluate the Mojo, use the following criteria and be brutal and honest.

    Strengths:
    Weaknesses:
    Bottom Line:

    Value Rating:
    Overall Rating.

    She is a lovely creature but she is not perfect. Give it a try...

    Peace.
    My 1 year (Mojo) anniversary is coming up next month. I don't post a review of a bike until I spend a year on it. I agree with you. I just got my first dime size chip in the finish. No tape in this location. I can probably do a nail polish repair. It is only the clear finish.

    Honesty is the best approach. My year has been great, but not perfect. Posting honest reviews is the only way to improve the bike.
    Don

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo1034
    I highly recommend that you also test ride the Mojo!!! Find a dealer and get a demo. You could keep it for several days so you could ride the trails that you’re familiar with. You’re going to drop a pretty penny so make sure you get the bike that suits you best. I don’t have any first hand experience with Pivot but I know they have a DW link.

    The Mojo is in my opinion the best bike out there!!! It is very responsive and plush, the geometry on this bike is awesome. When you’re on the Mojo you get a great sense of control, whether your railing a corner, on the climbs or downhill’s you feel like a pro. Like any other bike it is very important to set up the suspension correctly. The Mojo handles like a champ on the trail and looks super sexy!!! You get exotic materials like Ultra High Modulus Carbon Fiber and a DW Link. You could build it very light in the low 20 ish LBS or build an All Mountain monster in the 27 ish LBS range. I hope this helps!!!!!
    not sure where you live in texas, but the bicycle sport shop sells them

  15. #15
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    Nice trail! I sure wish we had some conditions like that down here on the west coast! The coastal rock is pretty much shaley, dusty, and gravely - kind of hard to trust. We get hints of that high in the Sierra.

    To get back to topic… Would the Pivot 5.5 inch travel bike be any better with your Float RL and 120mm stem hopping down that section?

  16. #16
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    Great Picture. It is so hard to make steep stuff look steep in 2D. There is definitely a line, but it looks like you don't want to miss it. How does your Mojo handle that sort of terrain?

    Most of California is very different: either much more rounded or more broken down.

  17. #17
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    After visiting all the local shops and getting comments from the different vendors, I have mostly eliminated the Mojo in favor of the Titus Motolite (Based on feedback from the dealer selling both).

    It was a bit frustrating as most shop could not provide information about pricing and inventory as they needed to contact the manufacturers, which are closed on Saturdays.

    One shop also recommended the Turner Nitrous since I am light (weight limit of 165), but I think it is too much a race bike for me. He is going to provide me with a great deal, as they are "stuck" with one. But it will be well under 24 lbs .

    They also recommended the SantaCruz Superlight. Again, maybe too much of a race bike for me. He is trying to find one I can try.

    The Titus Motolite is now on my short list. The Pivot is also on it, but the price is pretty steep for both the frame and the complete builds they offer compared to the other vendors with similar technology.

    Thanks for all the feedback so far. I am now officially in information overload. Hoping to digest all of this overnight.

    Feel free to chime in more.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    After visiting all the local shops and getting comments from the different vendors, I have mostly eliminated the Mojo in favor of the Titus Motolite (Based on feedback from the dealer selling both).

    The Titus Motolite is now on my short list. The Pivot is also on it, but the price is pretty steep for both the frame and the complete builds they offer compared to the other vendors with similar technology.

    Thanks for all the feedback so far. I am now officially in information overload. Hoping to digest all of this overnight.

    Feel free to chime in more.
    Not really sure what is the rational to eliminate the Mojo ... the Titus motolite is fine but frankly if I had the choice I would get the Mojo. It is simply the most balanced, quick and plush bike I ever tried or owned. The asset of the bike is superb, and few go downhill so well. You can build it as a 24 pounds ultra-light trail bike or as a 28-30 pounds all-mountain monster, it can use a 130 to 160mm fork without a blip and has a state of the art frame with a fantastic attention to detail ... yep, I think you are making a mistake not getting a Mojo

    PS The Superlight is a very different bike then either moto or Mojo. The nitrous is a old style 3" travel race-only bike. You do not want either.

  19. #19
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    They also recommended the SantaCruz Superlight. Again, maybe too much of a race bike for me. He is trying to find one I can try.
    I have a hard time figuring out what your are really looking for. Ol single pivot Superlight is more in the class of a ~100mm XC race bike. Moj, more of an marathon race bike or long ride all mountain.
    SC Blur would be another one to look at if it's longer travel longer ride rough terrain bikes you are looking for. Then, if you really like it, buy a Moj. Then also try 2008 Trek Fuel 9 . 0 or 9.5 Ex.
    Carbon mountain bikes frames feel much different than alum.
    Also, Hey, Gram try the Moj with a 3 stage fork and it might eliminate some of the complaints you have climbing the rocky stuff. I ride Apex, Dinasour Ridge, White Ranch etc and it out handles by just a little bit anything else I've tried in the rough stuff on rocky ridge climbing even with the slack head angle. Including XC bikes like the old short travel Fuel. Note: this is with the Talas fork travel set at 100mm not 140mm, set with light rebound and compression pretty heavy. (things you can't do with non-linear air spring RL lockout)
    When I tested the Moj I demoed with a setup and switched the exact same setup between 3 different brand bikes to test on the front range. This convinced me that it was the ultimate rocky moutain riding atb at this time.
    Of course, just for me as opinions are like....well like you said to each his own.
    Last edited by ghawk; 02-18-2008 at 03:27 AM.

  20. #20
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    I know I sound all over the map. I always give the same speech to salesman and I think they interpret it differently.

    I always say "I want a trail bike that is suitable for some non competitive racing. I don't want a ride that is too harsh. I ride 3 times a week and race once a month." Some focus on the racing part, other on the trail riding part.

    The salesman at the Mojo/Titus dealer thought the Titus would be better for me than the Mojo. Since he carries both and he is the only Titus and Ibis in town, his opinion had some weight on me. I think one reason he recommended the Titus was also for pricing reason. With my budget (~4K), I can get much better components on a Motolite compared to a Mojo. He did mentioned that if I was going to spend $5.5K, than the Mojo might be more attractive.

    Regarding the Superlight and the Nitrous, I agree they do not really fit my goals. But I might be able to try the Superlight which would provide a clear answer.

    Ideally I would try these bikes before making my final decision.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    I know I sound all over the map. I always give the same speech to salesman and I think they interpret it differently.

    I always say "I want a trail bike that is suitable for some non competitive racing. I don't want a ride that is too harsh. I ride 3 times a week and race once a month." Some focus on the racing part, other on the trail riding part.

    The salesman at the Mojo/Titus dealer thought the Titus would be better for me than the Mojo. Since he carries both and he is the only Titus and Ibis in town, his opinion had some weight on me. I think one reason he recommended the Titus was also for pricing reason. With my budget (~4K), I can get much better components on a Motolite compared to a Mojo. He did mentioned that if I was going to spend $5.5K, than the Mojo might be more attractive.

    Regarding the Superlight and the Nitrous, I agree they do not really fit my goals. But I might be able to try the Superlight which would provide a clear answer.

    Ideally I would try these bikes before making my final decision.
    In comparing the Mojo and the Titus, a big question is if you liked the ride of your old Specialized? The overall ride of the Titus will be much like your old bike. I was like you and traded up from a FSR to a Titus. I liked the ride of my old bike but thought it was too flexy and did not climb very well. The Titus is the bike I thought the FSR was supposed to be.

  22. #22
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    I really liked my 07 Stumpjumper, but I have not tried anything else.

    It could have had less pedal bob and could have been lighter.

    And my cornering was not very good compare to others, but that was probably due to my skills more than the bike.

  23. #23
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    Riding experiences

    The Titus Motolite in 5 inch travel I demoed has just about the same handling and ride feel as the Pivot Mach-5 prototype using the same shock I demo rode in September, with smoother sharp bump hits on the Pivot. Although the Pivot had a 140mm fork vs. the 130mm on the MotoLite – so with a 140mm fork the Motolite is a touch slower turning, about halfway between the extremely tight turning Pivot and the more relaxed and stable Mojo with 140mm fork. I’m heavier rider near 200 lbs, and the Pivot is too tight steering for my confidence downhill, but a lighter rider may prefer the quicker handling.

    The Motolite pedal bobs far less than FSR’s with light propedal, there is a very apparent difference - Horst links are not all the same. The Motolite pedal bob is nearly as little as the Mojo and Pivot which both don’t pedal bob at all with light propedal but bob a little less than the Motolite when standing and hard climbing. With the same shock the Mojo is more bump compliant than either. The Mojo and Pivot are smoother hitting bumps small and large when seated pedaling than the Motolite.

    The Mojo is a lighter and more versatile design than either. It can be built with shorter fork for quick XC race steering and firm up the shock to closely match the Pivot or Motolite with less frame weight, and the Mojo can be slacked into a proven durable AM bike with longer and stiffer fork and more compliant shock settings which the Pivot and Motolite could never match.

    The DW-LINK is the best suspension in the world if you are interested in combining the most efficient pedaling and bump compliance - all other design have trade-offs in comparison, if just as bump compliant they pedal bob more, if as efficient pedaling in some situations then not as bump compliant. The DW-LINK is especially superior if you like very soft suspension setup for maximum bump compliance without any loss in seated pedaling efficacy.

    The Motolite frames are only $1300 (unless the price is up) vs. near $2k for the Mojo and I would assume the same for the Pivot. Is the $700 difference for the same build worth it? Between the very similar ride feel of the Motolite and Pivot Mach-5 maybe, but for $700 the lighter and more versatile use Mojo with the same build is a clearly a value bonus.

    For your racing interests for any of these bikes the RP23 shock and some higher end adjustable platform type fork (I’m not familiar with these) would give better standing hard pedaling performance.
    Last edited by derby; 02-17-2008 at 10:23 AM.

  24. #24
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    Great write up Derby, thanks!

    I thought the Motolite frame was ~1300, but it looks like they increased the price to 2K

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    I really liked my 07 Stumpjumper, but I have not tried anything else.

    It could have had less pedal bob and could have been lighter.

    And my cornering was not very good compare to others, but that was probably due to my skills more than the bike.

    If you liked the Stumpy, and want a similar ride but lighter and better in the corners, the MLII could be your ride. You are on an IBIS site, so you are going to get an IBIS bias.

    As for the price, the ML II production moved back to the USA and the cost increased.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Nice trail! I sure wish we had some conditions like that down here on the west coast! The coastal rock is pretty much shaley, dusty, and gravely - kind of hard to trust. We get hints of that high in the Sierra.

    To get back to topic… Would the Pivot 5.5 inch travel bike be any better with your Float RL and 120mm stem hopping down that section?
    Can't say Derby, I would have to have them send me one to test on my terrain. If I had the same version that was at the Interbike show my fillings would have come out, but according to _dw they have fixed their shock issue, but since I have not ridden it since then I cannot make any comment.

  27. #27
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    Okay here is something to though about.

    Yeah non-boutique like Giant, Trek do produce good bikes at a great value but if you are the person who like to own the latest bike, then non-boutique bikes should be avoid at all time cause they will update the looks or the bike every year (to improve it more and dont be trapped in the marketing gimmick (very common when they compare their competitor suspension designs)).

    Hmm, ML2, Mojo, Pivot. Those are great bikes but I must add Mojo SL in it. From my opinion Pivot has a pretty cool looking aluminium frame but with all those special looking parts, it wont be lighter then a conventional tubing like the ML2 (assuming both has the same strength). And you wont know how is the customer service (hope it wont be like Ellsworth).

    ML2 uses HorstLink but the DW-Link is better then HorstLink unless you are the rider who dont mind locking out your shock that is. Now between Mojo and Mojo SL. If you are a weight weenie or weight concern person, then you should opt for the Mojo SL. Its lighter and it has the new unique to Ibis (so far) rubberized paint. Oh yeah and you can still put protection sticker onto the Mojo SL.

    Now, for customer service. I belive out of all the bike manufacturers listed, I can safely say Ibis has the best CS out there. Because Ibis is a small bike company, their workers can keep track of any reported problems with the bike and so far if you read through the forums, they aren't many reports bout a broken frame (those reported in this forum is more likely the case of the paint cracks and seat collar which has been solved).

    Personally, I prefer the Mojo (Mojo SL) cause its a carbon bike you getting and its one of the best carbon trail bike out there that can be converted as a XC rig. Not to mention you get one of the best customer service in the market.
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  28. #28
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    The SL does not help me much with 2 issues:

    Staying under $4K
    Need a bike ASAP (I am currently bikeless) and I have a race in 3 weeks. I thought the SL was very hard to get.

    Beside the weight, any differences between the regular and SL Mojo?

    Thanks.

  29. #29
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    One more question:

    It appears to me that Ibis offers better full bike kits for the money than Titus and Pivot.

    Is that right? I have to admit, I am not an expert on all these components.

    All 3 frames retail for about the same price (~2K).

    Thanks

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    The SL does not help me much with 2 issues:

    Staying under $4K
    Need a bike ASAP (I am currently bikeless) and I have a race in 3 weeks. I thought the SL was very hard to get.

    Beside the weight, any differences between the regular and SL Mojo?

    Thanks.
    The SL is lighter due to the shock and carbon headset cups and.... maybe one more thing I'm not thinking of.

    But yes, besides weight savings and paint, they are the same bike and will ride the same.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  31. #31
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    Yeah, its surprising that Ibis still can offer good bike package although they are a small boutique bike company.
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  32. #32
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    Hi Again,

    I tried both the Mojo and Motolite today back to back, in the parking lot, but with some curb jumpings, bunny hops, etc.

    The suspension on the Mojo feels a lot better to me. Very firm pedaling, but very soft on bumps. The Motolite was nice, but the Mojo was just much better.

    I am convinced the DW suspension is the thing I want.

    So I think I will pull the trigger for a Mojo with the XT build, which stretches my budget a little bit.

    I am still itching to try to Pivot again with proper adjustments... Just waiting a few hours before the final decision...

  33. #33
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Have you looked at the geometry of both bikes? Or would you know what to look for?

    I am 6'4" and the geometry of the Pivot would not at all work. The bikes are too short with slacker seat tubes which makes handling sketchy and steep climbs a bear. It is sad because the bikes are one of the best engineed of any I have seen. Stiffer than a Mojo per mass. That is basically their selling point. The Mojo is also very well designed and would definitely be an awesome choice if you can live without a water bottle. For some races, a water bottle is necessary though and this is the only downside besides the lack of stiffness in the rearend if you are on the heavy side. But super light and durable.

    It is interesting that you have narrowed your choice to DW-link bikes. I agree with all the folks on this forum that it is the best design(from a purely suspension standpoint) but it is very hard to design a bike around it and make it stiff. Pivot has done the best job at this so far. The links of the Mojo(although noticable lighter) cannot compete in stiffness.

  34. #34
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    Well you do get a stiffer bike with the pivot and the extra gain in weight. Besides, you wont be able to notice the flex on the Mojo unless you are a real heavy rider
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  35. #35
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    just to throw another spanner in the works, how would the new stumpjumper 08 stack up in this company? To me it seems it would be a more balanced list to include this instead of the epic?

    Derby, have you ridden this yet - does the horst link revision add anything?

  36. #36
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    What horst link revision? You mean the 'Brain'? Well the brain is a oil valve control which determines should the shock be locked or not.

    I still believe the DW-Link or any VPP bike would perform better then HL bikes in terms of pedalling performance.

    Anyway if you want to compare about customer service. Ibis beats Specialized hands down.

    Go Ibis!!!! and their Customer Service!!!
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    I read in one of Derby's thread, that for 08 the chainstay pivot has been revised to relflect a "true horst position" - not quite sure what that means in terms of performance etc - Derby if you are here, please explain?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt_brodie
    I read in one of Derby's thread, that for 08 the chainstay pivot has been revised to relflect a "true horst position" - not quite sure what that means in terms of performance etc - Derby if you are here, please explain?
    Specialized moved the pivot closer to the BB to avoid interference with Shimano Derailleurs. This compromised performance.

    And dw, pretending to be this wheelhot guy is just silly!

  39. #39
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    oh - doesn't sound too promising.

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    huh? dw pretending to be wheelhot is silly? swt, im not dw.

    I guess the horst still rides the same as in the rider wont be able to tell the difference.
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  41. #41
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    Why not buy the SX package, sell the Crossride wheels on ebay and buy a lighter wheelset. You will be close to the same weight as the XT package, but well within your budget.

  42. #42
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    Thanks for all the help.

    I pulled the trigger on the Mojo with the XT build yesterday.

    The test ride, although in the parking lot for all 3 (Mojo, Titus and Pivot), confirmed that I really wanted the DW suspension. The Mojo had better components and weight than the Pivot for similar price. It also felt better, but I think it was a setup issue.

    Now the wait is killing me. I hope to get it next week, in time for my next race.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelhot
    ML2 uses HorstLink but the DW-Link is better then HorstLink unless you are the rider who dont mind locking out your shock that is.
    So you're saying the DW wheel path, anti squat, has an auto lockout feature built in, i.e. suspension stiffens under load? Nice!!! Controlled flex combined with auto lockout = one great bike

    I do have one question, however, how can it stay bump compliant while pedaling, as reported by others here, if it has auto lockout?
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 02-20-2008 at 01:57 PM.
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  44. #44
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by flafonta
    Thanks for all the help.

    I pulled the trigger on the Mojo with the XT build yesterday.

    The test ride, although in the parking lot for all 3 (Mojo, Titus and Pivot), confirmed that I really wanted the DW suspension. The Mojo had better components and weight than the Pivot for similar price. It also felt better, but I think it was a setup issue.
    Awesome!!! As I said, I think the geometry is better on the Mojo. How did it feel better to you flafonta?

  45. #45
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    My 5 categories when I decide to do my bike review will
    be:

    1)tech climbing/descending bump sensitivity

    2)traction

    3)pedal feedback

    4)geometry/handling

    5)endurance climbing/pedaling efficiency

    Having ridden an mkiii, FSR, and others, I haven't found a bike that does
    1, 2, & 3 as well as the Chumba XCL, another classic horst design like the motolite. The mojo is a lot lighter, though, and may be better suited for the
    riding you do or the area you ride. Not trying to downplay the advantages of the
    mojo/dw-link. There's tradeoffs to each design. derby's point is well taken that
    maybe the mojo is the best combination of the tradeoffs for you.
    I saw some mojos for the first time at 24 hours in the old pueblo race this
    past weekend, they were the sweetest looking bikes there, no doubt.
    I live in AZ, where the terrain is more like pastajets in Colo, and I tend to
    prefer a smooth, completely neutral feeling suspension in rocky climbs.
    Last edited by le_buzz; 02-23-2008 at 03:54 PM.

  46. #46
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    Yogiprohet,

    My test rides were very short and in a parking lot, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I will provide a longer review once I try my Mojo on my usual trails.

    The Motolite felt just like other bikes I have tried before, but with a better execution. It felt stiff when pedaling hard and accelerating, but with some bob. It felt like my Stumpjumper, just stiffer laterally and vertically on pedaling and bumps. It did absorb the bumps very well and I could feel the plushness of the suspension, but not as soft as my Stumpjumper.

    The Mojo felt quite different to me. It felt very light, comfortable, quiet, very firm on pedaling (almost like a hard tail). But when going over the curbs at decent speeds, the bike just absorbed the curb very well, without feeling like on a big Marshmallow. Hard to explain. The suspension just did its job.

    Another reason to take these comments lightly: The Motolite was setup as a $3K bike versus the Mojo at $5.5K. And these Ergon grips on the Mojo demo felt very good, adding to the overall pleasure... Simple things sometimes make a big difference.

  47. #47
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    Dave,

    I know you probably can't answer this, but I'm going to ask anyway. Any chance that either Ibis or Pivot will release a 6" travel rig for '09?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    Specialized moved the pivot closer to the BB to avoid interference with Shimano Derailleurs. This compromised performance.
    I haven't ridden a Specialized bike in a few years since the Brain shock (ugh!) was pretty new

    Specialized re-centered there FSR geometry closer to original, the last 6 years had a compromised, nearly useless ICT design of FSR. In the ’08 models of FSR, the main pivot is repositioned to the back of the seatpost above the BB about an inch, and also lowered the drop-out pivot to about 1 inch forward and below the axle. Both repostions of the pivots are near the more original chainstay geometry of Horst designs Specialized used prior to 2001, and what Titus has always maintained. The more original Horst geometry has a more anti-squat needing less damping resistance to settle pedal bob than the last 6 years of more compromised FSR's. (I should qualify that this is my opinion. Some rider’s prefer lesser efficiency and mushier, bouncy pedaling or very firm shocks.)

    The Stumpjumper FSR is 120mm travel, 1 inch less travel than the Mojo or Pivot Mach-5. I wouldn't put it very close in the same class of bikes.

    Specialized appears to be designing more stiffness into their frames, the FSR's used to be pretty flexy, much more so than the Mojo's minor flex seen in one test area. They are probably much stiffer now close to the stiffness of Trek, Turner, Titus and most other aluminum multilinks now.

    The dw-Link is a large step better in mountain bike suspension performance in nearly all ways than the Horst Link ever got to beyond the best monopivot suspension types. Only in braking do some Horst links compare as well in brake balance and grip.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The dw-Link is a large step better in mountain bike suspension performance in nearly all ways than the Horst Link ever got to beyond the best monopivot suspension types. Only in braking do some Horst links compare as well in brake balance and grip.
    This is useless without empirical data. Please share your data that demonstrates the above conclusions. Thank you!
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 02-22-2008 at 09:34 AM.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  50. #50
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Thanks flafonta, I have noticed the front suspension plays a big role in how the rear works. IOW, if the front is plush the rear will feel plusher.
    I saw a video on the Ibis website of different guys riding the Mojo and one of them was riding up a root step and it seemed as if the suspension did not do a very good job of absorbing it and consequently he lost some momentum. Mabey it was the crappy Fox Shox. It sounds like your saying it absorbed big hits at speed very well which it should if the damper is any good.

    What rear shock did the Mojo have and what setting?

    I mat have to try an Ergon grip. Wonder how it would work for racing...

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