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Thread: Mojo HDR

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    Last edited by nsxtc; 06-10-2013 at 10:25 AM.

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    More link

    Mojo HDR | Bikes | Ibis Cycles US
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mojo HDR-hdr.jpg  


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    The Mojo HDR continues in the very capable footsteps of our popular and highly regarded Mojo HD, taking its technology and versatility a few steps further. The "HDR" and the "HD" feature identical travel (160mm), the same suspension (the incomparable dw-link), and the same proven geometry.
    The HDR adds even more diversity to its menu.
    You're currently looking at the 26" wheel 160mm travel version of the bike. You can set it up with 160mm or 180mm front forks. If you want to run the bike in long travel 650b mode check the details tab to the right.
    Over on this page, you can see the HDR 650b, featuring 27.5" wheels (that's why we called it the HDR 650b) and a ton of ways to set it up. All of its chameleon-like geometric gyrations can be seen over here.
    Maybe the best place to start would be the galleries tab, where we've got a few videos showing the bike in action along with some lovely big studio shots.

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    Love the details, but wish there was at least one "obnoxious" color. Nuclear Pesto would be great.

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    Personally, I'm loving the cobra blue.

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    why can I not read the details? wtf? Also, if it's just a regular HD, what's different? Is there an updated rear triangle for us loyal ibisians? AAAAHHH the suspense is killing me!
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    Basically, "limbo chips" so the bike can convert to 650B and ISCG05 tabs

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    I thought the limbo chips is only if you want to run 130mm + 650; Otherwise for 160mm it's no limbo + shim shock 5mm + 650 wheels?

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    Yea that's what I got out of it

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    But I just finally got 26" carbon wheels!

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    So the new HDR:
    1. Has same geometry and travel as original HD when used with 26" wheels
    2. Can also be set up as a 650b with 130mm travel
    3. Comes in 2 new colors

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE my (black) HD. I have owned mine for almost 3 years, but I have always wished for a better paint scheme. The frame design is so beautiful, but the black/grey combo on my black HD do not stand out at all. I have often felt a tinge of jealousy when I look at the bright paint schemes utilized by Santa Cruz, Specialized, Trek, Giant, etc. I do like the black/yellow combo on the rear triangle of the new HDR, but I think the paint on the downtube looks blocky and out of place.

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    so the rear triangle had to have been changed to accomidate 650b tires.. It even says in the article that there was no mud clearance, but no mention of whether the new rear triangle will work on the old HD...

    Also, says they changed geo for bottom bracket height.

    and changed for more clearance for xx1. SO, questions I'm left with...

    Does the rear triangle fit onto the old HD for better 650b retrofit?

    Does xx1 not fit on the current HD's?

    And what is the difference between BB heights between the old HD650b retrofit, and the new HDR650b?

    So far, sounds like my original plan of my buying a pike 160, shimming my rear shock an converting to 650's is the way to go. Not worth going for the new frame.. or is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowRyda View Post
    Basically, "limbo chips" so the bike can convert to 650B and ISCG05 tabs
    No, that's not the only change. The rear triangle is different; clearance etc.
    - -benja- -

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    I'm guessing the rear triangles aren't interchangeable since the details page says they changed the lower link a bit

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    My shimmed 160mm HD running 650b wheels and Schwalbe 2.25" tires (NN R, Hans F) measures 13.25" from ground to bottom of BB. So with this combo, it's actually lower than what Ibis reports on the HDR (13.5")

    The XX1 will fit on current HDs, but you'll need to add 1/8" spacers between the hub and dropout. There was talk about Ibis making a new RD hanger w/ the 1/8" spacing.

    So all in all, IMO there's nothing you can't do to the old HD to make it exactly like the new HDR (other than the ISCG05 mount).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PowRyda View Post
    I'm guessing the rear triangles aren't interchangeable since the details page says they changed the lower link a bit
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.

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    Surprised after all that they couldn't make a HDR 650b 160. I guess the 650b wheels still limits suspension, or Ibis just doesn't want to change the wheel base.

    Looks like the Geometry is identical. Too bad, since I was hoping for a bit longer front center and wheelbase on the large.

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    Thanks Hans for the quick response. I'd be in that group of HD owners wanting a retrofit swingarm for added tire clearance! I love my HD converted 650b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsxtc View Post
    My shimmed 160mm HD running 650b wheels and Schwalbe 2.25" tires (NN R, Hans F) measures 13.25" from ground to bottom of BB. So with this combo, it's actually lower than what Ibis reports on the HDR (13.5")
    I don't think anybody measures BB height from the ground to the bottom of the BB...always to the middle of the BB from what I understand. With 2.35 nevegals on 650b wheels and my shock shimmed a few mm, my unsagged BB height was 14.25"
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    Any chance the new graphics will be available as a sticker set? I first saw the black/yellow combo in the article on Anne-Caroline Chausson's HD a while back, and have been dying to get the same look on my black HD.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.
    I'm always looking for new people to ride with. If you are on the Front Range, shoot me a PM and let's go ridin'.

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    Fantastic news! Love the fact that Ibis thinks about their existing riders. See a long line forming now.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.
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    Hans:

    Can you confirm that the geo is the same as the regular HD160 if you use the 26" wheels?

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    I would think to measure to the bottom of BB as that's what will be hitting the obstacles (e.g., rocks, roots, etc...). So the way my mind thinks is that I have 13.25" ground clearance (vs. adding another say 1/2" to middle of BB).

    Quote Originally Posted by tdotrider View Post
    I don't think anybody measures BB height from the ground to the bottom of the BB...always to the middle of the BB from what I understand. With 2.35 nevegals on 650b wheels and my shock shimmed a few mm, my unsagged BB height was 14.25"

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    I'm assuming that you will be offering the retro swingarm in the older paint scheme (e.g., Vitamin P, White, Black)?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.

  25. #25
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    No you measure BB height from level floor to center of BB. not the bottom of BB.

    My HD 160 650B was around 14.25+- a wee bit

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    I posted this in the other thread but dying to know the answer...

    Will the 650b 150mm option have optimized BB height and geometry?
    And will Ibis be offering this version as a complete bike?
    or does this remain more of a homebrew hack that's not officially endorsed/optimized?

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    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Will the 650b 150mm option have optimized BB height and geometry?
    And will Ibis be offering this version as a complete bike?
    or does this remain more of a homebrew hack that's not officially endorsed/optimized?
    We will post the geometry for the 650b 150 when we get a chance. The angles and clearances are OK, the BB is higher than we would have liked, but we also realized that a lot of people have set their bikes up this way and love them. Also, that higher BBs work better in some instances.

    We're thinking that dropper posts are making it so BB height is not as influential on the ride as it used to be with fixed posts. The fact that the BB is about .3 - .5" higher than we would normally make it is pretty irrelevant when your dropper post has 5" of travel and most people drop them for hard cornering, jumps, drops etc.

    The 650b 150 is built the same as the HDR in 160 mode, but with a 5mm travel reduction spacer installed in the shock. We are looking into stocking them for people who want to run the bikes set up this way. It is a simple inexpensive part.

    This configuration got it's start with MTBR members hacking the HD! We're not sure if we will leave it as is (consumer mod) or make it a standard option. The main reason is that we have not checked out the exact amount of shock stroke reduction needed to keep the larger tires out there from rubbing the back of the seat tube. The tire sizes are all over the place. Some are way bigger than the stated size would indicate. We've allowed enough clearance for most of the tires people use on the 130 set up, but haven't done all the checking on the 150 set up with huge tires. That's why we suggest bottoming the suspension with the air let out to check tire clearance, (and see if you need a larger spacer) if you run 150.

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    Hans - Did the BB height change for the HDR from that of a consumer modified HD at 150mm 650B fork/ HD140 chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    We will post the geometry for the 650b 150 when we get a chance. The angles and clearances are OK, the BB is higher than we would have liked, but we also realized that a lot of people have set their bikes up this way and love them. Also, that higher BBs work better in some instances.

    We're thinking that dropper posts are making it so BB height is not as influential on the ride as it used to be with fixed posts. The fact that the BB is about .3 - .5" higher than we would normally make it is pretty irrelevant when your dropper post has 5" of travel and most people drop them for hard cornering, jumps, drops etc.

    The 650b 150 is built the same as the HDR in 160 mode, but with a 5mm travel reduction spacer installed in the shock. We are looking into stocking them for people who want to run the bikes set up this way. It is a simple inexpensive part.

    This configuration got it's start with MTBR members hacking the HD! We're not sure if we will leave it as is (consumer mod) or make it a standard option. The main reason is that we have not checked out the exact amount of shock stroke reduction needed to keep the larger tires out there from rubbing the back of the seat tube. The tire sizes are all over the place. Some are way bigger than the stated size would indicate. We've allowed enough clearance for most of the tires people use on the 130 set up, but haven't done all the checking on the 150 set up with huge tires. That's why we suggest bottoming the suspension with the air let out to check tire clearance, (and see if you need a larger spacer) if you run 150.
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    Thanks Hans - helpful as always..
    Also noticed that the HDR 650b build comes with a 140mm fox 34, are these internally shimmed? - could I raise it to 160mm if I wanted to to bump up the rear travel?


    Not sure I follow the dropper post logic, wouldn't a pre-dropper post rider have their seat lowered (manually) anyway in a technical cornering situation where BB height comes into play?

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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    Hans:

    Can you confirm that the geo is the same as the regular HD160 if you use the 26" wheels?
    Yes, it is.
    H

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    I think there will be plenty of people wanting a retrofit rear triangle - to give more tyre options.

    I'll take one in white please

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.
    Outstanding! Count me in on this update too.

    The HD's flexibility is one of the things drew me in to that bike to begin with. The ability to run 140mm and now a "refined" retrofit for 650b (even though you could somewhat do it before) makes this bike one of the most flexible platforms on the market. Really, really nice options.

    Thanks and looking forward to the swingarm. I personally am excited about this news.

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    Hans,
    Please sign me up for a retrofit swing arm size medium in black!

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    baltik

    bb height affects ground clearance and the center of gravity of the ride. A low center of gravity is crucial in descents, jumps and technical cornering. This is much more effectively achieved by dropping your seat post by 5in. than by lowering bb height a fraction of an inch and compromising ground clearance. I hope this helps. m



    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Thanks Hans - helpful as always..
    Also noticed that the HDR 650b build comes with a 140mm fox 34, are these internally shimmed? - could I raise it to 160mm if I wanted to to bump up the rear travel?


    Not sure I follow the dropper post logic, wouldn't a pre-dropper post rider have their seat lowered (manually) anyway in a technical cornering situation where BB height comes into play?

  35. #35
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    So compared to the Bronson........
    Less travel
    Weight?
    Chainstay length?
    Head angle?
    BB height?

    A few guys at my shop got carbon Bronsons recently and love'em. it seems like the most obvious current competitor to the HDR650.
    Keep the Country country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsxtc View Post
    I'm assuming that you will be offering the retro swingarm in the older paint scheme (e.g., Vitamin P, White, Black)?
    Current plan is to make them black and include top mount vinyl decals in all the colors to work with the HD front triangle color schemes.

  37. #37
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    Nice. Are you taking orders yet on the retro swing arm (I expect a long line)?

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Current plan is to make them black and include top mount vinyl decals in all the colors to work with the HD front triangle color schemes.
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    We'll make a good size batch and announce when they are ready. No need to pre-order.
    H

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    So I currently have an HD140 . . . just trying to figure out . . . what would be the advantage of getting a retrofitted HDR rear triangle, besides getting additional clearance to run 650b tires in 130/150mm mode? Is it significantly stiffer/lighter or would the pedaling dynamics change?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacarbon View Post
    So I currently have an HD140 . . . just trying to figure out . . . what would be the advantage of getting a retrofitted HDR rear triangle, besides getting additional clearance to run 650b tires in 130/150mm mode? Is it significantly stiffer/lighter or would the pedaling dynamics change?
    It would be the same other than the things you pointed out plus more chain clearance and a bit lighter.

  41. #41
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    Hans-

    What's Ibis' stance on running the HD-R 130mm 650b in back, 160mm 650b up front.

    If I'm getting an HD-R and want to switch between the two modes, I won't have any money left over for another fork...

  42. #42
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    A Talus 150 130 might be a nice set up. 160 w 130 in the back would be pretty slack / good for DH, but not so great on flat corners and climbing.

  43. #43
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    I'm on the fence. Up until last week I was going with a Bronson then all the teaser pics starting rolling out. Being a former Mojo HD owner (regret selling it). I was hoping for it to be a dedicated HD 650B 150mm+ bike. I look forward to seeing some pics of rear tire clearance of the HDR in 650/150mm mode. Most interested in seeing the pics show Schwalbe NN and Hans tires.

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    It's not that I am not happy with my new HD, but still - it is not fear... Originally ordered black HD in beg. of May, when later importer admitted that there was a mistake and none are in stock at Ibis of my size (if I would just knew why...). Made a small sacrifice for a custom build and switched to white. Shipment was somewhere lost, frame got delayed by two weeks... Eventually got it 1.5 weeks ago with just a few rides, and now those news... I will probably have to find additional motivation to enjoy my new/old bike But it is still a fun bike and I'm just moaning PS. If I would just waited a couple of weeks

  45. #45
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    Hans,

    Great work on a really versitile frame, loved my HD, Love my Ripley.

    Would really love a HD Ripley 140mm...sorry have to ask...
    oh yeah I figured out the specs to make it easier on you.

    24" TT in large
    45" wheelbase
    68 degree head angle with 150mm pike
    6lbs frame, 1lbs of extra beef for stiffness
    same form as the current frame just beefed up a bit.

    Sorry, Ok back to the HDR wrangling!

  46. #46
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    Hans -- Do you expect to have an option for the Float X rear shock once it becomes available?

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    For a few hundred dollars you can get it wet sanded and painted professionally. My HD is 2 years old and white. Not much white left. I'm looking to repaint, and go for a new swingarm when they become available

  48. #48
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    Hans, when will the 650b limbo chips come available to purchase?

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    Hans, can you run 3x10 gearing on the HDR?

  50. #50
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    Does the HDR have a 140mm option like the HD or does it only change to 130mm for 650b?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The HDR swingarm does not directly retrofit on to the HD.
    Yet.
    In addition to adding a bunch more tire clearance, we offset the link attachment points to get more clearance for FD and ISCG. We are planning on making some retrofit swing arms for people would want to put them on HDs. It will be several months away before we can do it, maybe around the end of the year, but we're planning on it. It is a 2mm shift in the suspension pivot tubes, so we can make a special run of swing arms for retrofit. Then you'd have more tire and chain clearance.
    Any talk about providing swing arm upgrades for SLR?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    We will post the geometry for the 650b 150 when we get a chance. The angles and clearances are OK, the BB is higher than we would have liked, but we also realized that a lot of people have set their bikes up this way and love them. Also, that higher BBs work better in some instances.

    We're thinking that dropper posts are making it so BB height is not as influential on the ride as it used to be with fixed posts. The fact that the BB is about .3 - .5" higher than we would normally make it is pretty irrelevant when your dropper post has 5" of travel and most people drop them for hard cornering, jumps, drops etc.

    The 650b 150 is built the same as the HDR in 160 mode, but with a 5mm travel reduction spacer installed in the shock. We are looking into stocking them for people who want to run the bikes set up this way. It is a simple inexpensive part.

    This configuration got it's start with MTBR members hacking the HD! We're not sure if we will leave it as is (consumer mod) or make it a standard option. The main reason is that we have not checked out the exact amount of shock stroke reduction needed to keep the larger tires out there from rubbing the back of the seat tube. The tire sizes are all over the place. Some are way bigger than the stated size would indicate. We've allowed enough clearance for most of the tires people use on the 130 set up, but haven't done all the checking on the 150 set up with huge tires. That's why we suggest bottoming the suspension with the air let out to check tire clearance, (and see if you need a larger spacer) if you run 150.
    Thanks for posting this info. It makes the 150mm 650B option clearer. So a BB height of ~14"?
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thanks for posting this info. It makes the 150mm 650B option clearer. So a BB height of ~14"?
    FWIW, my HD 160 with bigger 650b tires and 160mm Vengeance has BB height north of 14.5". Since the HDR has the same geometry, I would expect the same numbers there.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdumas View Post
    Hans, can you run 3x10 gearing on the HDR?
    Yes, no problem.
    H

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Does the HDR have a 140mm option like the HD or does it only change to 130mm for 650b?
    It's 130 and 160 only on this one. It turns out that the old 140 set up was actually closer to 130, something we overlooked until working on it again for the HDR. So it's really more accurately named than the 140 was.
    H

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    Awesome update! Maintains and improves upon all the virtues that make the HD the best on the market (don't thow out the baby!), embraces 650b, is lighter, gets a bearing upgrade, iscg tabs, and THANK YOU SWEET JESUS no super long super slack freight train wheel base, and N.O. MUTHER FUSSIN' INTERNAL CABLE ROUTING! Yes! Thank you for sticking to common sense on that guys.

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    All make sense. No hype, no marketing, full substance, and free choice. Ibis love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The 650b 150 is built the same as the HDR in 160 mode, but with a 5mm travel reduction spacer installed in the shock. We are looking into stocking them for people who want to run the bikes set up this way. It is a simple inexpensive part.
    Please let us know when the 5mm spacer is available for purchase. Count me in for one (or two as a spare)

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    It's 130 and 160 only on this one. It turns out that the old 140 set up was actually closer to 130, something we overlooked until working on it again for the HDR. So it's really more accurately named than the 140 was.
    H
    How about using a 7.875" x 2.25" stroke shock? That might get you the 140mm or a tad more even.

    I'd like to see a 140mm option also without some crazy shimming of the 160mm shock. Shorter shock would also help keep the BB height in check. Come on lets keep the versatility thing going!

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    Also curious if a 7.875" x 2.25" stroke shock is still an option on the 650B HDR - i.e. same caveats as the HD140 or no longer possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    How about using a 7.875" x 2.25" stroke shock? That might get you the 140mm or a tad more even.

    I'd like to see a 140mm option also without some crazy shimming of the 160mm shock. Shorter shock would also help keep the BB height in check. Come on lets keep the versatility thing going!
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
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    I have to say I am beyond bummed by this release (I know, I know it's a bike)
    Loved my 160 mojo HD, and after it was stolen I've been riding my buddies V-braked trek for 4 month waiting for this bike to get released.

    I test rode the bronson at an SC demo day and was really sold on the wheel size for local trails, just felt like I could carry speed better all around. I've always preferred DW style/mini link bikes to VPP so I was waiting for this with 99% certainty that I would buy it.. A 150-160mm 650B built on a HD platform is a no-brainer.

    But I have to say the 130mm just doesnt make sense in this platform, even with the new layup, the frame is significantly heavier than it's peers. The bronson and solo are 5.3/5lbs and the HDr is much heavier to its natural competition in the Solo. I realize that a lb of frame weight doesn't really change your day but these are $6k+ carbon fibre bikes, weight is a large part of the equation no matter how much people may choose to downplay it. I also just have a feeling that Ibis didn't/couldn't invest in new moulds..

    The rear triangle was clearly revised completely, but to not even bother to add dropper post stealth routing goes to show that the main triangle was untouched.. I would venture to say that 70%+ of HD riders have a dropper post and a good half of them ride reverbs, there are bike shops custom drilling the frames for stealth routing so to omit such a basic and simple detail just strikes me that they chose to leave everything as is (I don't believe that the revised BB and pivot clearance affect the layup but then again I could be wrong).

    Bottom line I can't shake the gnawing feeling that the HD-R as a 130mm bike is the result of an economic decision not to re-tool the main triangle, as opposed to the logical evolution of the platform as a 150mm-ish 650B do it all ripper.

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    Wonder what the percentage of Bronson's sold vs Solo's sold will be.

  63. #63
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    I like the blue one

    Many major gains, no more compromises when converting. The HDR at least doubles the versatility to 5 or 6 bikes in one.

    I'll continue to hope for an HDX 650b for an extra 1 inch travel with a bit under 14 inch BB that can still climb as easily, and 650b feels like another inch travel, but that's a different bike. And it's rare, such as shuttle and downhill park conditions, could I ever want more than these 5 or 6 inch travel versions of the HDR 650b can do.

  64. #64
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    Bottom line I can't shake the gnawing feeling that the HD-R as a 130mm bike is the result of an economic decision not to re-tool the main triangle, as opposed to the logical evolution of the platform as a 150mm-ish 650B do it all ripper.
    Main triangle has been changed at least in a few ways. Link locations have been altered and the bottom bracket is different now incorporating the ISCG mount. You can still run it 150mm 650B just not 160mm (as was the the old HD)

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Main triangle has been changed at least in a few ways. Link locations have been altered and the bottom bracket is different now incorporating the ISCG mount. You can still run it 150mm 650B just not 160mm (as was the the old HD)
    More clearance for shocks. Different layup or whatnot.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Main triangle has been changed at least in a few ways. Link locations have been altered and the bottom bracket is different now incorporating the ISCG mount. You can still run it 150mm 650B just not 160mm (as was the the old HD)
    Right - but all the parts changed appear to be alloy parts, from my nascent understanding of carbon production, the bladders/moulds is what requires significant tooling and costs, so changing the alloy BB insert, offsetting the pivot a few mm to provide better clearance, and tweaking the shock mount to allow a larger shock could theoretically be accomplished without reworking the moulds... Getting a 150mm, 650b bike with correct BB height and angles would require much more significant changes..

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    Wrong thread

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    Old saying. "When you assume something, you make an ass out of yourself" I had a Reverb. I will never own one again. I use the Lev on both of my bikes and my wife's. I for one am grateful there is no stealth routing. If you did do a survey I believe you would be wrong. It would be I interesting for people to chime in on this in regards to what dropper post they use or start a survey thread.

    Also everyone who is crying about their 26 inch bike. Man up. Ride what you got and love it. I do. If you want something else, buy it. Stop complaining. I love my 26" mojo HD. I want to try 650B. I'm not *****ing about it. I am saving my $$$ for a wheelset and doing my research on the conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    I have to say I am beyond bummed by this release (I know, I know it's a bike)
    Loved my 160 mojo HD, and after it was stolen I've been riding my buddies V-braked trek for 4 month waiting for this bike to get released.

    I test rode the bronson at an SC demo day and was really sold on the wheel size for local trails, just felt like I could carry speed better all around. I've always preferred DW style/mini link bikes to VPP so I was waiting for this with 99% certainty that I would buy it.. A 150-160mm 650B built on a HD platform is a no-brainer.

    But I have to say the 130mm just doesnt make sense in this platform, even with the new layup, the frame is significantly heavier than it's peers. The bronson and solo are 5.3/5lbs and the HDr is much heavier to its natural competition in the Solo. I realize that a lb of frame weight doesn't really change your day but these are $6k+ carbon fibre bikes, weight is a large part of the equation no matter how much people may choose to downplay it. I also just have a feeling that Ibis didn't/couldn't invest in new moulds..

    The rear triangle was clearly revised completely, but to not even bother to add dropper post stealth routing goes to show that the main triangle was untouched.. I would venture to say that 70%+ of HD riders have a dropper post and a good half of them ride reverbs, there are bike shops custom drilling the frames for stealth routing so to omit such a basic and simple detail just strikes me that they chose to leave everything as is (I don't believe that the revised BB and pivot clearance affect the layup but then again I could be wrong).

    Bottom line I can't shake the gnawing feeling that the HD-R as a 130mm bike is the result of an economic decision not to re-tool the main triangle, as opposed to the logical evolution of the platform as a 150mm-ish 650B do it all ripper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    You can still run it 150mm 650B just not 160mm (as was the the old HD)

    You can, but you won't have a proper 650b geometry then. It is just a 26" HD geometry with 650b wheels. So a dirty 650b conversion.
    That beeing said: The HDR is just a slightly updated HD with better tire clearence and XX1 compatibility.
    So when you want to have a proper 650b Enduro/AM bike you have to look somewhere else (Bronson,...)
    It might come into play when going for a 130mm 650b Trail bike. But there are some on the market which are much lighter.
    Also, no Reverb Stealth routing (why?). I can see that not everyone wants to install a stealth reverb but demand is there. So why did Ibis decided not to have an option for that?
    I can understand Ibis to get most of one frame and make it verys versatile to get into more than one market. It is much cheaper to do so than making different molds for each bike but I am not sure if this is the way to go because there will be too many compromises going this way.

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    Pretty sure the Front Triangle has been re-done and incorporates the new molding process that the SL-R uses. It's lighter, a little stiffer, etc.

    It can be ran in 150mm travel mode for 650B as well.

    I would wait for the reviews to come out before you disregard the 130mm travel.

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    150mm option... BB comes too high. So there is no real 150mm option.
    As said above: The HDR shares to same "old" HD geometry. So no real 650b frame and no geometry update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    It's 130 and 160 only on this one. It turns out that the old 140 set up was actually closer to 130, something we overlooked until working on it again for the HDR. So it's really more accurately named than the 140 was.
    H
    Hi Hans,

    would it be possible to use the 130 option with a 150 mm fork with 26inch wheels? I currently have a RS Revelation WC which I wanted to use on the HD 140, but with the new frame, was wondering if this would still be an option?

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb View Post
    Old saying. "When you assume something, you make an ass out of yourself" I had a Reverb. I will never own one again. I use the Lev on both of my bikes and my wife's. I for one am grateful there is no stealth routing. If you did do a survey I believe you would be wrong. It would be I interesting for people to chime in on this in regards to what dropper post they use or start a survey thread.

    Also everyone who is crying about their 26 inch bike. Man up. Ride what you got and love it. I do. If you want something else, buy it. Stop complaining. I love my 26" mojo HD. I want to try 650B. I'm not *****ing about it. I am saving my $$$ for a wheelset and doing my research on the conversion.

    Pray tell why you are grateful there is no stealth routing? How does that affect you negatively?

    That's wonderful that you are saving for a wheelset and researching, I would feel the same way if I had my Mojo HD and had the luxury of letting the dust settle. Had you read my post you would know that's not my situation.

    I also didn't assume anything - When the HD first came out it was a leap above the competition both in design and in technology, with the competition catching up I had merely hoped that ibis would maintain it's lead

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    It's 130 and 160 only on this one. It turns out that the old 140 set up was actually closer to 130, something we overlooked until working on it again for the HDR. So it's really more accurately named than the 140 was.
    H

    Hi Hans

    Since I have a HD140 in the pipeline to be delivered at the end of the month, doubt I'm going to try and change it at this point. But I'll ask the question anyway, since this frame is a bit lighter, will the HDR be able to be run in a 140 configuration with 26" wheels? and if so how would the geometry be different than the HD140.

    Thanks
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
    150mm option... BB comes too high. So there is no real 150mm option.
    As said above: The HDR shares to same "old" HD geometry. So no real 650b frame and no geometry update.
    Everyone has their own version of what's correct geometry. Personally I hate low BB heights as I live in New England which has more rock than dirt. A 14" BB height doesn't phase me in the least. Some like long top tubes some don't, some like a steep SA some don't, some want a slack HA some don't, many over obsess about CS length IMO....So maybe for you there is no good 150mm option but for me (and plenty of others) not an issue. There is also an option Ibis hasn't really addressed (or a size offered) and that's using a 7.875" x 2.25" shock. Should yield over 140mm of travel and keep the BB height more in check.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    A 14" BB height doesn't phase me in the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    FWIW, my HD 160 with bigger 650b tires and 160mm Vengeance has BB height north of 14.5". Since the HDR has the same geometry, I would expect the same numbers there.
    I could live with 14" as I have rocks to deal with as well, but 14.5" is starting to be too high.

    We'll have to wait until somebody sets up their HDR in 150mm 650 mode and see what the real number is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I could live with 14" as I have rocks to deal with as well, but 14.5" is starting to be too high.

    We'll have to wait until somebody sets up their HDR in 150mm 650 mode and see what the real number is.
    I guess for me if I wanted to get all anal about it I'd start with a Mojo tuned 7.875" x 2.25" stroke shock which should yield 140+mm of travel, then use the shortest AC 150 650B fork you could be happy with. White Bros. Loop 32mm stanchion 150 is just 534mm and takes all 650B tires, 32mm Revelation 150 is 539mm AC, new X-Fusion Sweep 34 @150 is 541mm AC, Fox and Pike I'm pretty sure are 545mm and StiHacka's 160 Vengeance is 555mm (set at 160). If a low AC fork tucks in the HA to much use a Works Components angle set to kick it back out (which also slightly lowers the BB). Some have also used offset shock bushings.

    While I can live with 14" BB I agree 14.5" is really getting up there, especially if you're inseam challenged.

    Here's my thought. Ibis needed to do something to address the 650B craze since people were begging for it and some other issues the HD was having like the XX1 and no ISCG mount. An entire new 650B bike from the ground up bike could be a year or 2 or more away so the incremental improvements to the existing HD was the thing to do. My gut says an entire new bike will be coming at some point (hopefully not Ripley time frame) completely designed around the 650B wheels size which will address all the issues.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I could live with 14" as I have rocks to deal with as well, but 14.5" is starting to be too high.

    We'll have to wait until somebody sets up their HDR in 150mm 650 mode and see what the real number is.
    I've carefully measured a 14" BB height of my second-generation HD with 140 chips, and 7.875x2.25 inch shock clearing a 650b Neo-moto 2.3 with no bottom travel limitation needed, about 150mm travel, with Lyrik u-turn set to 160mm travel. I'd guess a 650b 150 travel fork has the same A2C measurement as a 160mm travel 26 wheel spec fork. This makes a 67' head angle or slightly less, with no sag.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    I've carefully measured a 14" BB height of my second-generation HD with 140 chips, and 7.875x2.25 inch shock clearing a 650b Neo-moto 2.3 with no bottom travel limitation needed, about 150mm travel, with Lyrik u-turn set to 160mm travel. I'd guess a 650b 150 travel fork has the same A2C measurement as a 160mm travel 26 wheel spec fork. This makes a 67' head angle or slightly less, with no sag.
    Good info Derby...as usual!

    Wonder why Ibis doesn't offer this shock length option? Maybe something they should consider for the new HDR? Almost seems like a no brainer to me anyway.

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    Million dollar question is whether the 7.875x2.25 is still an option with the new chips. If so its the same shock / travel as on the Bronson. Pike A2C is 542mm @ 150. On paper HA would be 66.7 and BB 346mm (13.6") in the lower 650B mode with the Pike with a shorter WB and CS than competitors. Sounds money to me . Asked Digital Hippy to measure the BBH as he just mounted a Pike to the HDR he has.

    -Shane

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    I guess for me if I wanted to get all anal about it I'd start with a Mojo tuned 7.875" x 2.25" stroke shock which should yield 140+mm of travel, then use the shortest AC 150 650B fork you could be happy with. White Bros. Loop 32mm stanchion 150 is just 534mm and takes all 650B tires, 32mm Revelation 150 is 539mm AC, new X-Fusion Sweep 34 @150 is 541mm AC, Fox and Pike I'm pretty sure are 545mm and StiHacka's 160 Vengeance is 555mm (set at 160). If a low AC fork tucks in the HA to much use a Works Components angle set to kick it back out (which also slightly lowers the BB). Some have also used offset shock bushings.

    While I can live with 14" BB I agree 14.5" is really getting up there, especially if you're inseam challenged.

    Here's my thought. Ibis needed to do something to address the 650B craze since people were begging for it and some other issues the HD was having like the XX1 and no ISCG mount. An entire new 650B bike from the ground up bike could be a year or 2 or more away so the incremental improvements to the existing HD was the thing to do. My gut says an entire new bike will be coming at some point (hopefully not Ripley time frame) completely designed around the 650B wheels size which will address all the issues.
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    I can see why people are a "little" upset over the release to the new frame, but I believe this may be their own fault as they were wanting something different. You can't please everyone all of the time!
    Since I have no plans to run 650 in the near or distant future, I am not too bothered with how the new frame will work in that configuration.
    I like the ICSG tab option, if I ever decide to go 11 speed (running 9), I am glad they have sorted the spacing issue. Lighter is better as long as the strength remains the same or is improved.
    There will be a new HD or HD-R soon in the house hold, just not sure which one.
    What really interests me is the CCDB air option for the HD-R.
    Hans, will the CCDB air option be available for the current HD?


    Eric

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    Its a stock CC DBAir shock you can buy from several online stores (Universal Cycles for example).

    Suspension Experts even just announced a demo program where they will ship you one for a week to demo it.


    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyred View Post
    I can see why people are a "little" upset over the release to the new frame, but I believe this may be their own fault as they were wanting something different. You can't please everyone all of the time!
    Since I have no plans to run 650 in the near or distant future, I am not too bothered with how the new frame will work in that configuration.
    I like the ICSG tab option, if I ever decide to go 11 speed (running 9), I am glad they have sorted the spacing issue. Lighter is better as long as the strength remains the same or is improved.
    There will be a new HD or HD-R soon in the house hold, just not sure which one.
    What really interests me is the CCDB air option for the HD-R.
    Hans, will the CCDB air option be available for the current HD?


    Eric
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    Thank you for the info, but I know that the CCDB air can be purchased anywhere. I would like to buy the frame with one, then I don't need to worry about selling the Fox.

    Eric

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    Got it. You throw me with the current HD comment. The current HD is going away as HD-R ramps up so short window where that's happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyred View Post
    Thank you for the info, but I know that the CCDB air can be purchased anywhere. I would like to buy the frame with one, then I don't need to worry about selling the Fox.

    Eric
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    Very short window from what I am reading into the comments.
    Need to clear some debt which is happening in the next few weeks and then hopefully pressing the "BUY NOW" button.
    Hans, when would an XL HD-R in black be ready to ship (months or weeks?). Do you still have HD's in XL Vit P available?

    Eric

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    Okay, so let's ignore the 650b option for a moment. With 26" wheels what's the difference between HD & HDR?:
    ISCG05 mounts
    A little more tire and chain clearance
    How much lighter?
    How much stiffer?
    That's it?
    Keep the Country country.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyred View Post
    I can see why people are a "little" upset over the release to the new frame, but I believe this may be their own fault as they were wanting something different. You can't please everyone all of the time!
    Since I have no plans to run 650 in the near or distant future, I am not too bothered with how the new frame will work in that configuration.
    I like the ICSG tab option, if I ever decide to go 11 speed (running 9), I am glad they have sorted the spacing issue. Lighter is better as long as the strength remains the same or is improved.
    There will be a new HD or HD-R soon in the house hold, just not sure which one.
    What really interests me is the CCDB air option for the HD-R.
    Hans, will the CCDB air option be available for the current HD?


    Eric
    I can't understand why anyone would be upset either. They are making an updated rear end for the current HD so what is the big deal? All of the numbers are the same otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Okay, so let's ignore the 650b option for a moment. With 26" wheels what's the difference between HD & HDR?:
    ISCG05 mounts
    A little more tire and chain clearance
    How much lighter?
    How much stiffer?
    That's it?
    About 1/2lb lighter
    More room for piggyback shocks
    More compatibility for different FD's
    Stiffer and stronger due to the new molding process (can't tell you how much)

    Good info here Ibis Launches New Mojo HDR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I can't understand why anyone would be upset either. They are making an updated rear end for the current HD so what is the big deal? All of the numbers are the same otherwise.
    I think allot of people were hoping for an entirely new HD designed solely around 650B wheels like what SC did with the Bronson. Ultimately I believe that will happen as 26" fades (even the Ibis guys say that) and I'll bet they've been working on it already. Lets see, all the improvements we see on the HDR, 140/160 adjustable travel while maintaining the same BB height, steeper SA, slightly longer TT, and eccentric pivots. Maybe no provision at all for a FD and I'd like to see a 56mm lower head tube.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyred View Post
    Very short window from what I am reading into the comments.
    Need to clear some debt which is happening in the next few weeks and then hopefully pressing the "BUY NOW" button.
    Hans, when would an XL HD-R in black be ready to ship (months or weeks?). Do you still have HD's in XL Vit P available?

    Eric
    I put in an order for a black HD-XL, two weeks ago with an end of June delivery, Vip P was available right away as of then.
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    Hi guys!

    Due to the Mojo HDR's launch, do you know if the Mojo HD will stop to be produced?


    Thanks!

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    Yes being phased out as HDR ramps up per one of Hans posts. Expect its a couple months before you see XL HDRs though so a short window


    Quote Originally Posted by Lobanovskyy View Post
    Hi guys!

    Due to the Mojo HDR's launch, do you know if the Mojo HD will stop to be produced?


    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I can't understand why anyone would be upset either.
    Upset is the wrong word. I don't think people are freaking out about the HDR. Disaapointed or underwhelmed would be a more appropriate descrption.

    And to be fair other folks are super stoked about it...everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    I think allot of people were hoping for an entirely new HD designed solely around 650B wheels like what SC did with the Bronson. Ultimately I believe that will happen as 26" fades (even the Ibis guys say that) and I'll bet they've been working on it already. Lets see, all the improvements we see on the HDR, 140/160 adjustable travel while maintaining the same BB height, steeper SA, slightly longer TT, and eccentric pivots. Maybe no provision at all for a FD and I'd like to see a 56mm lower head tube.
    +1 - And those folks [like me] will just wait until the right 650B bike comes along and ride it. At some point Ibis will do a ground up 650B all mountain bike and I'm sure it will be great.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    +1 - And those folks [like me] will just wait until the right 650B bike comes along and ride it. At some point Ibis will do a ground up 650B all mountain bike and I'm sure it will be great.
    Ripley Jr.!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Good info Derby...as usual!

    Wonder why Ibis doesn't offer this shock length option? Maybe something they should consider for the new HDR? Almost seems like a no brainer to me anyway.
    Maybe delayed for another marketing splash later?

    The 5 inch travel trail bike HDR130 650b is a far bigger market than with more travel. By far, most riders across the US including all of Central Cal and SoCal have 90% buff smooth trail conditions without driving long distance to mountains or deserts. Only big huckers and park riders want more more than 5 inch travel in most of the US.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Ripley Jr.!
    Newt = Ripley Jr. [codename "Rebecca" until formally announced]
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Yes, it is.
    H
    Instead of retrofit swing arm,why not a short link to adapt the rear hub move 1/2" further back to give additional space for 27.5 tire.

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    Thank goodness the HDR can't go 160 travel in 650-b. I'd be selling Everything I can to get one. The 1x11 option had me hooked.

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    Mojo HDR

    I suspect that a 2.25 stroke shock will probably be a no-go on the new frame in 650b mode... At least with the bigger tires now possible. This is just a hypothesis, but what do we know so far?:
    The HD 140 w/ 650b wheels ends up with bb height around 14".
    With a 2" stroke shock there's some extra bottom out clearance that makes the longer 2.25" stroke and 150ish travel possible.
    HDR is 13.5" claimed bb height and angles get more slack relative to HD140.
    Hans said a Hans D 2.35 tire has little to no bottom out clearance until they tweak the limbo chips slightly.
    So it seems logical to conclude that what they've done is used up the extra bottom clearance that was available with the standard 2" shock to lower the bb height via new limbo chips....basically a new 3rd option for limbo chips that gives you a lower bb at the expense of extra bottom out clearance. So maybe the old 140 chips will still work for people who want to use the longer stroke and don't mind the higher bb...?? If so, that would be pretty slick. Talk about tuning options! Thoughts?

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    just throwing this out there, but what would be the effects of using a fox 34 talas 650B model fork (in 160 mode) when using 26 inch wheels? i.e. the A2C, BB height etc
    That way when you then swap out the rear shock and use 650b wheels in 130mm mode you would only need to use the talas function on the fork and BOOM you have a trail bike.
    One bike, one fork and two wheel sizes in two different modes....would this work?

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