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  1. #1
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    Mojo HD weaknesses

    Hi,

    I am a firm believer that everything is a compromise out there. As such, as great as the design on the Mojo HD is, the bike is built on compromises. I think that, part of being a happy owner is to understand the compromises of the bike, hence why I am asking the questions: What are the weaknesses of the Mojo HD?

    As a potential buyer, I want to understand what I will potentially have to compromise on, if I get this bike. Just a bit of background, I currently ride a 140mm bike and I am really happy with the travel. I don't necessarily need more, but I am looking for a slacker head angle, around , as I am getting into more technical riding. I don't really do jumps or gaps and have a preference in having my 2 wheels on the ground. I ride Colorado Front Range type of terrain, i.e. lots of rocks, roots, rock gardens. etc... I ride trails with long fireroad climbs, short steep and technical climbs. On the down side, we have everything from tight switchbacks to long flowy downhills to technical steep trails... all of these can sometimes be found in a single ride.

    Thanks a lot in advance.

    The reason why I am looking at changing from my current bike
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  2. #2
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    I'm totally not answering your question, but if you're happy with your current bike and travel, you could try using something like Cane Creek's Angleset to slacken the head angle. I have the Mojo SL-R (so can't comment on HD weaknesses specifically) with the Angleset at -1.5 degrees, moving the HA from 69 degrees (spec'd with a 140 mm fork, which is what I have) to 67.5 degrees. I like it a lot and haven't had any issues with it. Just a thought given that $150 headset is much cheaper than a $5,000 bike.

  3. #3
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    Not sure if mine is an "SL" or an "R", but I roll 650B on a 130 fork and I'm not sure how the head angle is now...But I like it!
    (way better when rockin' it)

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Weakness is in the eye of the beholder as what I might think is a strength you might think its a weakness.

    A better question is to ask what your looking for and then we can tell you if it's a strength of the HD or a weakness.

    If you don't leave the ground then I would say any 6 inch travel bike is a weakness as it has more travel then you need. Also the added weight is not needed so it's a weakness.

  5. #5
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    Weakness is the sizing runs small

  6. #6
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    Only a couple small complaints.
    1) Sizing runs small imo
    2) Clearance for rotors in back is tight. I run a hope 183 and there's barely any room between rotor and stay.
    It was a real close call with my 5.7 before going with the HD but im happy(er) now..

  7. #7
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    Rides high in the rear so it feels a little unerving at first. But that's a strength when you climbing.

  8. #8
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    The price? Other than that, the bike is the greatest thing in the whole world, at least as far as bikes go.

  9. #9
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    I think the cable mounts and routing could be better on the HD. Maybe a re-route that leaves the top tube clean and also the lower down tube clean so you don't have to run the poly guard to protect the hose and cable.

  10. #10
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    I second this.
    I don't like the rear brake going through the frame.
    The bolt head on the lope link nearly cut through my rear brake line while doing shuttle runs at Mt Stromlo. Now I have a piece of plastic tube taped to the cable.
    Cable runs down the side of the down tube would be a reasonable solution but would distract from the aesthetics. I prefer the top tube routing on my classic. Although I do like the way my 1x10 HD looks without any cables on the top tube, so much that I haven't bothered buying a remote kit for my Joplin seatpost.

    I also don't like the front derailleur mounting it is too high if you want to run 2x10 with a 32 to 36 largest ring. This is due to the location of the lower pivots. The main problem with this is the gap between the outer cage of the derailleur and the chainring means the chain can fall off. That is on of the reasons I run 1x10. This problem could be solved if someone would make a front derailleur specifically for these smaller 2x10 chainring combination, which are becoming more popular with AM riding as it allows more clearance for technical riding. I don't like to run a bashgaurd as it cuts down on clearance and I rarely hit my chainring. If I'm going to go somewhere really technical I just carry a spare ring which is lighter than most bash gaurds.

  11. #11
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    the new down tube protector could scretch a little more over the bottom bracket

    color/carbon cracks at the top of the seat tube

    very very minimal chain clearance at the cassette in the small ring

    you have to take off the brake hose to pull it between the seat tube and the rear triangle

    head tube could be straight 1.5

    look like the x12 "holders" could be moved a little outwards... had to take some material off when moving the hub from a specialized SX

    more clearance for tyre in the back is nice but a few mm more would be better (could probably even fit some offset bushings at this moment with ex823 and butchers sx 2.35 but it would be tights ... not sure about the link though)

    should be slacker per default giving a 64 HA with 180 and angleset

    OH YEAH
    its true, good thing i noticed from the start (empty air can test) that the brake hose gets clamped between the link and the rear triangle after the suspension is compressed enough ... had to tweaked cable lenght in that section or there would be a serious problem some day all of a sudden
    _______
    i hate every single moronic website/magazine review-er out there .
    Last edited by random; 05-10-2012 at 07:56 AM.

  12. #12
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    Hi,

    thanks a lot for your suggestion and I wish I could use it to slacken the head angle of my existing bike, unfortunately, it isn't an option as the frame doesn't support the Angleset, hence why I am potentially looking for a new bike.


    Quote Originally Posted by anwleung View Post
    I'm totally not answering your question, but if you're happy with your current bike and travel, you could try using something like Cane Creek's Angleset to slacken the head angle. I have the Mojo SL-R (so can't comment on HD weaknesses specifically) with the Angleset at -1.5 degrees, moving the HA from 69 degrees (spec'd with a 140 mm fork, which is what I have) to 67.5 degrees. I like it a lot and haven't had any issues with it. Just a thought given that $150 headset is much cheaper than a $5,000 bike.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  13. #13
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    - Lack of ISCG tabs limits chain management options
    - Tire clearance (not width, but diameter - interference with seat post on bottom-out with some tires)

    No weaknesses in the ride itself that I can identify. The bike does everything well.

  14. #14
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    btw there was a huge improvement for tyre clearance in 2012 ...

    -direct mount derailleur
    -shaved seat tube where the tyre comes closest (and its also shaved in the link area... not sure if it was before)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingmoonracer View Post
    Not sure if mine is an "SL" or an "R", but I roll 650B on a 130 fork and I'm not sure how the head angle is now...But I like it!
    (way better when rockin' it)

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
    You don't know which bike you have? It is written on the side of the bike.

  16. #16
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    It's expensive. It weighs more than bikes that can do less. It doesn't have a beer fridge.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    It doesn't have a beer fridge.
    imo, this is the biggest drawback. At least with a re-turner, you can drink cold beer when it cracks and they reweld it.

  18. #18
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    The biggest issue I have seen are from people who do not have any clue how they like to ride and explain that to someone tuning the rear shock. As with other high end bike frames, you will see threads from time to time about how the HD is bad at this or that. These come from people who don't know much about bikes or tuning. The HD may be the most versatile 140/160mm bike in the world. You can make the bike do anything you want, you just have to tune it to do so. Want it plush, there is a shock and setting for that, want a downhill racer and climber, there is a shock and setting for that. You normally could never get an all mountain bike to ride like a trail racer, but you can with the HD. You can also set it up for a downhill jumping machine. My biggest complaint, is listening to people tell people on fourms after they ride one, tuned or not tuned to the new riders weight, or riding style, how it did not work for them. They don't understand tuning at all and like any other good bike, Ibis, Santa Cruz, specialized, you must take time and tune your bike to your style. Once you have done that, this bike will reward you in ways that will bring a big smile to your face.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    The biggest issue I have seen are from people who do not have any clue how they like to ride and explain that to someone tuning the rear shock. As with other high end bike frames, you will see threads from time to time about how the HD is bad at this or that. These come from people who don't know much about bikes or tuning. The HD may be the most versatile 140/160mm bike in the world. You can make the bike do anything you want, you just have to tune it to do so. Want it plush, there is a shock and setting for that, want a downhill racer and climber, there is a shock and setting for that. You normally could never get an all mountain bike to ride like a trail racer, but you can with the HD. You can also set it up for a downhill jumping machine. My biggest complaint, is listening to people tell people on fourms after they ride one, tuned or not tuned to the new riders weight, or riding style, how it did not work for them. They don't understand tuning at all and like any other good bike, Ibis, Santa Cruz, specialized, you must take time and tune your bike to your style. Once you have done that, this bike will reward you in ways that will bring a big smile to your face.
    I completely agree with this. It's taken me almost 4 years to get my SL to where I want it. No fault of the bike but it took that long for me to understand how I want to ride, experiment with different set-ups and afford the time and money to change things around. It's all part of the hobby.

  20. #20
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    Beautiful frame but no water bottle holder of any use so practically it's a backpack or go thirsty. Probably makes the frame more rigid.
    Oddly most of the boutique companies build AM frames with no bottle holders inside the triangle, but the biggies design their frames to fit water bottles.

  21. #21
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    It's biggest weakness by far is the rider.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing Ralph View Post
    Beautiful frame but no water bottle holder of any use so practically it's a backpack or go thirsty. Probably makes the frame more rigid.
    Oddly most of the boutique companies build AM frames with no bottle holders inside the triangle, but the biggies design their frames to fit water bottles.
    It's annoying...You can always get a Roadie Jersey and throw water bottles in the back pockets if you like to ride without a pack. I will do that on easier, XC style rides.

  23. #23
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    The only actual weakness I can think of is that the suspension was really finicky to get dialed. It took me a dozen rides and a lot of experimentation to get it to where I'm totally happy with it. Could be a function of the stock rp23 (which I'm still not very impressed with). Ibis should really offer some other shocks as options. I'm interested in trying a monarch and seeing if that matches the bike better.

    Lack of chainguide mounts is a bit of a glaring omission with a bike this capable. I'm running dual rings and haven't had any chain droppage at all though.

    Other than that, the only real weaknesses are things that are just a given with this sort of bike. It pedals fantastic for a 160mm bike, but it will never be an XC rocket. The long wheelbase and slack front end definitely make it a handful in tight, twisty trail or on steep climbs. It does run a bit small (I've run small frames my entire cycling career, but I'm on a medium HD). If you're seriously looking at it, you probably understand what you're getting into. I consider it an XC bike for people who seriously love nasty terrain or have a lot of DH experience.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing Ralph View Post
    Beautiful frame but no water bottle holder of any use so practically it's a backpack or go thirsty. Probably makes the frame more rigid.
    Oddly most of the boutique companies build AM frames with no bottle holders inside the triangle, but the biggies design their frames to fit water bottles.
    See I see this as a strength not a weakness, I don't use water bottles so I don't need a frame that is designed around them instead of making the bike better.

  25. #25
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    the only tradeoff i would point to is the bike does not feel plush - Ie my 160mm HD is not nearly as plush as a comparable horst link frame.. So in a way you are buying a jeep with BMW suspension. Now mind you I am focusing on the feel vs effectiveness. The DW suspension IS very effective, but I was thrown for a loop when my 160mm HD (push tuned for a plush setup) feels about the same as my 140mm turner.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    the only tradeoff i would point to is the bike does not feel plush - Ie my 160mm HD is not nearly as plush as a comparable horst link frame.. So in a way you are buying a jeep with BMW suspension. Now mind you I am focusing on the feel vs effectiveness. The DW suspension IS very effective, but I was thrown for a loop when my 160mm HD (push tuned for a plush setup) feels about the same as my 140mm turner.
    I think it might be your setup as my HD feels as plush as my Enduros and the Nomads I have ridden.

  27. #27
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    Possible but I've run it with the rp23 as well as a tuned monarch, 30-35% sag - seems unlikely that i would have an issue with 2 different shocks

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Possible but I've run it with the rp23 as well as a tuned monarch, 30-35% sag - seems unlikely that i would have an issue with 2 different shocks
    Run it with a better shock?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Possible but I've run it with the rp23 as well as a tuned monarch, 30-35% sag - seems unlikely that i would have an issue with 2 different shocks
    The hd does feel very firm thanks to its progressive leverage. To me this is one of those tradeoffs, as it really helps when you start going very fast. Fast bikes reward fast riders. Plush is word used to describe how a bike feels when going slow. Tracking and control are whT you want when going fast. Plush bikes tend to wallow when going fast, not a condidence inspiring feeling.

    Riders who stand off the saddle, stiff legging it tend to want a plush bike to do all the work for them. Riders who are active and pump a lot need some sort of platform to push off of. If the bike is too plush all of your pumps just get sucked up by suspension and you go slower.

    ive found the perfect balance on the hd to get best of both worlds is run deep sag with enough shim or bottom out control. If you.pedal a lot, get a shcok with a platform and switch it on for long climbs

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    The hd does feel very firm thanks to its progressive leverage. To me this is one of those tradeoffs, as it really helps when you start going very fast. Fast bikes reward fast riders. Plush is word used to describe how a bike feels when going slow. Tracking and control are whT you want when going fast. Plush bikes tend to wallow when going fast, not a condidence inspiring feeling.

    Riders who stand off the saddle, stiff legging it tend to want a plush bike to do all the work for them. Riders who are active and pump a lot need some sort of platform to push off of. If the bike is too plush all of your pumps just get sucked up by suspension and you go slower.

    ive found the perfect balance on the hd to get best of both worlds is run deep sag with enough shim or bottom out control. If you.pedal a lot, get a shcok with a platform and switch it on for long climbs
    Completely agree- and I am fine with the tradeoff but wanted to mention it to the OP since it caught me by surprise, typically as you go up and travel you gain some plushness

  31. #31
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    The two most obvious weaknesses of the HD is lack of tire clearance in the rear (not so much width as height) and lack of ISCG tabs for a chain guide (you can still sandwich one between the BB and the frame but it is prone to rotating).

    The annoyances with the frame are a few as well. First, the seat stays are really fat and they rub my calves; the front derailleur setup is very finicky as the main pivot down near the BB has no clearance for the front derailleur. You have to either shave the FD or run it higher than you'd like (this is for a 2x setup with a 2 ring specific FD). Lack of a proper bottle cage mount is the final one. You can mount a bottle underneath the downtube but that is just about the worst place to place a water bottle.

    _MK

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  32. #32
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    I agree on the seat stays, though I am use to the rub now it didn't bother me a bit when I first got it.

    I had no issues with the front derailleur, i'm using the SLX version Ibis recommend.

    Tire clearance hasn't been an issue but I could see it for some tires.

    ISCG tabs bothered me as well but my stinger has not had an issue yet and on my Enduro with the tabs the guide still rotated when hit hard enough.

  33. #33
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    Hi all,

    thanks a lot for all that have responded... it has been a very informative thread for me.

    Regarding the stated weaknesses, here is the way I feel about them:
    - lack of tire clearance at the back: my favourite rear tire is a 2.1, so as long as it can accommodate that, I am good.
    - lack of water bottle mount: I never carry a water bottle on the trails as I always carry a hydration pack with a whole bunch of things that wouldn't fit in pockets.
    - lack of ISCG tab: doesn't bug me.
    - finicky front derailleur setup with 2x10: that bugs me a little more, as I am not sure if I'll be running a 2x10 or 3x10 up front. One of the reasons for me switching bikes right now is the bad shifting of the front derailleur. It bugs me to no end and neither I nor any other shop can get it to work any better than I have.

    Other than that, thanks again for the great information.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  34. #34
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    New question here. Slx fd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murchman View Post

    I had no issues with the front derailleur, i'm using the SLX version Ibis recommend.
    Where is that recommended?
    - -benja- -

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Where is that recommended?
    It was via email when I was figuring out my build.

    Here is what they wrote back in May of 11 when I emailed them.

    "The best dual ring+ bash front derailleur option is the SLX 667 front derailleur. It is specifically designed to be run with a 22-32 double set up, and it clears not only the chain at bottom out, but also the swingarm, and it is still small enough to slide low on the seattube for good shifting."

  36. #36
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    here are the FD recs

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    here are the FD recs
    Case in point. FD is a weakness of the HD; not every chainring option will work and few FDs work period.

    _MK

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  38. #38
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    One other thing I just remembered. An annoying part of the HD is the fat chainstay on the drive side which prevents the chainguide to provide good tension on the chain. My roller is forced to hang below the bottom of the bashguard (32T) so the chain can clear the major dip in the stay.

    _MK

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  39. #39
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    The Fox shocks supplied with the HD are a weakness in my eyes.

    As you will see elsewhere in this forum, the RP23 is underwhelming for this bike's application.

    This is fairly generic problem across a lot of bikes. The RP23 is 'industry standard' so helps sell bikes, particularly with its low weight and fairly low cost; it's also a good benchmark for trail bikes (but even then benefits from custom valving).

    If you can order an HD with the X Fusion Vector HLR then all's well I hear.

    Not that I ride an HD, but I used to own a Mojo SL and now own a Pivot Firebird (DW too); and come across same as what's in this forum.
    Don't fight the mountain

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    Case in point. FD is a weakness of the HD; not every chainring option will work and few FDs work period.

    _MK
    Thanks for that _MK.... one question I have for you: if one sticks to the highlighted configs, how does the bike shift? Is shifting an issue and needs to be constantly looked at or more of a set and forget kind.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  41. #41
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    I have yet to have an issue with shifting on the HD and I don't see many post on here about any shifting issues on the HD.

  42. #42
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    Not sure who is referring to the pre or post 2012 model HD's (IMO it is important to clarify due to the model differences), but I've had no tire clearance issues with my 2012 in either 140mm or 160mm guise (running a 2.25 Ardent, renowned as being a large tire). No shifting or drivetrain setup issues either (2012 XT gear + SRAM X0 2sp cranks).

    Cable routing would be a minor gripe of mine, but very few manufacturers get it spot on IMO (Nicolai being one such exception).

    Think I've rubbed the rear stay a couple of times when running flats but its similar to some other bikes I've ridden TBH. Clipped in I am yet to rub the stay.

    RP23? Well I don't mind mine at all for trail riding (2012 model) but don't run one in 160mm travel mode (use Vivid 5.1 coil instead, which is great!).

    I also don't ride with bottles so lack if cage mounts is trivial to me, but understand those that don't like riding with packs would expect better bottle mount positions.

    ISCG tabs? Well many have run BB-mounted devices with great success, besides the fact there are the Ibis specific 1x and now 2x guides available... IMO this point is now rather mute.

    All bikes have weaknesses, but the HD, IMO, is as close to perfect as anyone is yet to get.

    *

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbblackdiamond View Post
    Thanks for that _MK.... one question I have for you: if one sticks to the highlighted configs, how does the bike shift? Is shifting an issue and needs to be constantly looked at or more of a set and forget kind.
    I was unaware of the strong limitations on the FD with the HD when I was building mine up. I wanted to go as light as possible where I could and so I went with the dual ring specific XTR and it has been quite a headache to get it dialed in so it wasn't hitting anything. It still isn't perfect in terms of making contact with things but shifting is fine; fast and crisp.

    _MK

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  44. #44
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    Just a clarification on tire clearance.

    The original HD160 has some tire to seat tube rub problems with some taller tires that could clear the stays.

    The July 2011, second generation frame, added almost 1/4 inch more seat tube clearance, which only rubs now with 650b wheels with 2.3 tires. A shorter than 650b wheel, up to 26x 2.6 DH tire will clear the HD160 seat tube now if it was narrow enough to clear the stays.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    I was unaware of the strong limitations on the FD with the HD when I was building mine up. I wanted to go as light as possible where I could and so I went with the dual ring specific XTR and it has been quite a headache to get it dialed in so it wasn't hitting anything. It still isn't perfect in terms of making contact with things but shifting is fine; fast and crisp.

    _MK
    Thanks for the clarification... there are 2 things that bug me more than anything else: a bad shifting bike and a noisy one, as in creaking one. My current bike shifts great on the rear side, but badly on the front side and has a creak that I just can't silence, even though everything is greased and lubed properly. I think the noise come from somewhere in the pivots and I am hoping that the Mojo is a fairly easy bike to keep silent.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  46. #46
    The_Afterman
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    Oh this is an easy one:


    ME.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    I was unaware of the strong limitations on the FD with the HD when I was building mine up. I wanted to go as light as possible where I could and so I went with the dual ring specific XTR and it has been quite a headache to get it dialed in so it wasn't hitting anything. It still isn't perfect in terms of making contact with things but shifting is fine; fast and crisp.

    _MK
    Have you ground out a notch on the cage as described on here?

  48. #48
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    I've got a 2012 HD. No problems at all with FD set up and shifting, but tolerances are tight for sure. I could be wrong, but modifying the FD cage with a grinder as some have done seems to be treating a symptom rather than addressing the real issue (improper set-up maybe?)

    Also, I don't find cable routing a weakness at all, provided you use the down tube protector (I doubt anyone isn't). Routing is clean, secure, and with proper lengths, there is virtually no rub at all.

    The only significant weakness IMO is the rp23. Great for climbing efficiency, but very harsh on the high speed chunk. I'm looking forward to switching to a monarch plus based on what I've heard about it.

  49. #49
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Have you ground out a notch on the cage as described on here?
    No, I haven't gone that route, yet. I imagine that notch in the cage is there for a reason and likely provides rigidity to the cage itself. If all else fails, I may take a grinder to it but I'd rather go with one of the "recommended" solutions if that has to happen.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  50. #50
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    The fixed mount front with XT der was, by far, the easiest time ever to mount and adjust a FD I have experienced. Simply bolt on an slide down to the optimum height. No contact with frame or links. No 10 speed chain rub in any gear. Adjust low and high limit screws. Presto! Done! Perfect fit! I'm using a triple crank with duel rings and bash guard, the der cage is as low as possible without rubbing the bash guard.

    The RP23 is not a weakness of the HD. It's the OEM low end default option. Most riders are very happy with the RP23, being about the same level or a step up from their prior bike's shock. The HD works great with any air or coil shock after decent tuning adjustment. The better the shock the better the HD performs. Unlike many 5 to 6 inch bikes including the Mojo SL, the HD suspension leverage works excellently, ideally, with any good quality coil shock.

    Weakness? ... I guess the lack of ISCG tabs to run ISCG compatible guides or Hammershmit. MRP makes HD compatible chain guides. I've heard from a pro DH racer that the new Shadow Plus and Sram's version rear derailleurs have eliminated chain drop, chain guides may become obsolete?

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