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Thread: Mojo HD for DH?

  1. #1
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    Mojo HD for DH?

    Guys, I need some help here. I'm just getting into lift access (mtn. creek) riding and am really starting to enjoy it.

    Current setup: Mojo HD 160, talas, rp23, shadow+, reverb, 2012 xtr ice breaks. I'm not looking for crazy jumps or drops, but love real techy, bouldery descents. The rp23 is obviously overwhelmed at this sort of riding. Should i consider; upgrading the rp23 to a CCDBA, Monarch?, switch to a Talas 180/140, go coil front and rear (Van/CCDB/HLR). These potential switches would be costly and would effect my everyday trail riding, (i think 180 would be overkill for trail/AM riding, but improve the DH performance. Should i purchase a DH specific bike (more money than the upgrades for sure) or should I get the DH fork and shock and switch out the parts for when I'm hitting up the park? Any thoughts or input/experiences on would be greatly appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by recleaver View Post
    Guys, I need some help here. I'm just getting into lift access (mtn. creek) riding and am really starting to enjoy it.

    Current setup: Mojo HD 160, talas, rp23, shadow+, reverb, 2012 xtr ice breaks. I'm not looking for crazy jumps or drops, but love real techy, bouldery descents. The rp23 is obviously overwhelmed at this sort of riding. Should i consider; upgrading the rp23 to a CCDBA, Monarch?, switch to a Talas 180/140, go coil front and rear (Van/CCDB/HLR). These potential switches would be costly and would effect my everyday trail riding, (i think 180 would be overkill for trail/AM riding, but improve the DH performance. Should i purchase a DH specific bike (more money than the upgrades for sure) or should I get the DH fork and shock and switch out the parts for when I'm hitting up the park? Any thoughts or input/experiences on would be greatly appreciated!
    I have a HD with Float 160 that I use for trail riding. This includes small jumps and drops (less than 3-4'). For me, this bike is ideal for this kind of riding. The bike weight just under 28 lbs.

    I also have a Marin Quake, which has full Saint, DeeMax, Boxxer fork, and 180mm of rear travel thru a Vivid Air. I ride Highland on this bike. The Quake is alot heavier but is better for true DH: 38 lbs.

    Life is a compromise. Two bikes is twice the expense but I think I have more fun because each is built for one type of riding.

    If you can swing it, two bikes are always better than one.

    Cheers,

    MGS

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    How much time do you spend on DH vs. trail riding? I can definitely see the RP23 being under gunned at the bike park. Do you not like the fork? I rode a couple seasons at highland on a Nomad that was 160mm front and rear that held its own pretty well (coil rear). I would think the CCDBA would be a safe investment in that it will improve every type of riding, at least that seems to be the general opinion of it. I'm seriously considering one for my HD. start there and see if it changes the way you feel on the bike and decide on the fork later.

    That being said, I also agree that two purpose specific bikes would be better if you could swing it. I don't know if they will do it under the new owners but Diablo used to sell their rental bikes at the end of the season. I've considered that in the past just to have a DH bike without breaking the bank since its a smaller % of my riding. If I remember correctly they sold the bikes for $2000, maybe $2500 tops for a DH bike with full Saint kit and a Fox 40. That means you'd have to wait for the end of the season though.

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    I built my HD with this in mind as at parks (infrequent) I'm no longer bombing DH runs but instead just flowing more technical trails fast.

    After only ~100 miles on the bike I think it will work very well. Went with a '12 Marz 55 rc3 evo @ 170mm and in back a Marz Roco Tst Air. This far it's been Super controlled over things that used to pack up a Rp23 and a 32 float on another bike constantly.

    There are a lot of benefits of a true DH bike, for me however the problems come too- riding much faster trails and going a lot bigger because what I find fun on an AM bike is a lot less challenging. For me I'd rather error slower an minimize injury. Don't heal as fast as I used to.

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    I'm running my HD with a 180/140 TALAs and RP23 and this is a great AM/L.Freeride bike. It's not a DH bike.

    You can still run it for DH, you just have to be more careful and have good skills.

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    For groomed DH jump courses like Northstar's Live Wire and Whistler's A-Line the HD160 is ideal for someone with expert jump skills. Watch Lopes at A-Line on u-tube, he makes this run look easy on the original Mojo C. If less than expert skills, a heavier bike with a couple more inches travel is much more forgiving of mistakes on these groomed courses. And anything as fast and rougher DH requires a long travel DH bike just to be "safe".

    There are other DH park trails at Northstar, such as Flameout, and probably at most other parks, that are more like AM. Tighter, slower, technically difficult in sections, and with small jumps, smaller banked berms, that are a workout and help gain AM trail skills.

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    Mountain Creek has some really rocky terrain. True DH tires (say, 2.5, 2 ply) can drastically change how you and your bike handle the terrain. Just as it's not ideal switching your entire suspension setup around for one ride or another, swapping out tires isn't fun either- but if you can swing an extra set of wheels and just pass rotors and cassette back and forth, the burlier tires can help you get away with chomping through those rock gardens and hitting berms and g-outs without worry of pulling a tire off or "pinging" on every sharp rock.

    There is a sliding scale between the 28lb "AM" HD and the 32lb "DH" HD... it's up to you to decide what you're willing to adjust (I wouldn't necessarily say "sacrifice") for your usual xc benefits vs downhill benefits.

    My compromise, for reference (size large): 170mm Vengeance up front, Vector Air in back. Flow Wheels, Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 EXO f & r. I also run a short (50mm) Havoc stem, wide Havoc bar. With a dropper (KS) and XT build (with G2 chain guide), and some CB Candys, it's 31lbs. For DHing, I just swap to flat pedals.
    +
    Mtn Creek Stoke

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    My compromise, for reference (size large): 170mm Vengeance up front, Vector Air in back. Flow Wheels, Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 EXO f & r. I also run a short (50mm) Havoc stem, wide Havoc bar. With a dropper (KS) and XT build (with G2 chain guide), and some CB Candys, it's 31lbs. For DHing, I just swap to flat pedals.
    +
    Mtn Creek Stoke[/QUOTE]

    How do you like the X-Fusion stuff so far?

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    Marz Roco?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    After only ~100 miles on the bike I think it will work very well. Went with a '12 Marz 55 rc3 evo @ 170mm and in back a Marz Roco Tst Air. This far it's been Super controlled over things that used to pack up a Rp23 and a 32 float on another bike constantly.
    Any more feedback on the Marz Roco Tst Air on the HD?
    Have you tried anything else other than the rp23 to compare?

    The RP23 is completely unable to keep up for downhill use and I'm looking
    to switch out, but there are so many options now with x-fusion, CCDB, RS Vivid Air,
    RS Monarch, and I hadn't even though of the Marz till your post...

    Is this too far off topic for this thread?
    I know there are other threads specifically for the ccdb but I've never seen
    any impressions of the marz on the HD.

    Thanks!

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    I really dig it. I think it's completely on par with Fox stuff, which is my primary comparison. I would like to see what a Vengeance coil fork coupled with a Vector HLR (coil rear) would feel like on the HD, but so far I'm really stoked on what I have. Smooth & strong, I just wish it were easier to adjust the rebound on the rear, but once I've gotten it where I want it, I never have to touch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antipatterns View Post
    Any more feedback on the Marz Roco Tst Air on the HD?
    Have you tried anything else other than the rp23 to compare?

    The RP23 is completely unable to keep up for downhill use and I'm looking
    to switch out, but there are so many options now with x-fusion, CCDB, RS Vivid Air,
    RS Monarch, and I hadn't even though of the Marz till your post...

    Is this too far off topic for this thread?
    I know there are other threads specifically for the ccdb but I've never seen
    any impressions of the marz on the HD.

    Thanks!
    I have read a few favorable reviews on the HD with Marz. Not that I means everything but Lopes was running it for the last few years before switching to X-Fusion. Go to bikeco.com, they do custom tunes on the Marz shocks for our bikes. There have been a couple people on this forum that have recommended them. I'm still on the fence myself, same as you...CCDBA, X-Fusion, Marz...too many choices, not enough $

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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    I have read a few favorable reviews on the HD with Marz. Not that I means everything but Lopes was running it for the last few years before switching to X-Fusion. Go to bikeco.com, they do custom tunes on the Marz shocks for our bikes. There have been a couple people on this forum that have recommended them. I'm still on the fence myself, same as you...CCDBA, X-Fusion, Marz...too many choices, not enough $
    Mine's a tuned version from Bikeco. They led me that direction as I intended to run a CCDBA on the bike.

    @ antipatterns - never ran the bike w/ the RP23 but have been underwhelmed on every bike I've ridden with it on there and after reading on here and intending to build a climbable/pedlable but really capable descender realized it wasn't an option.

    Advantage (to me) over the CCDBA is ease of adjustment (I'm *NOT* a tinkerer) along w/ the infinitely adjustable platform.

    What I like so far:
    - dialed out the box (though this is the tune/setup for me and my riding style of course not just the shock)
    - platform is great for a local ride I often do with several miles of climbing on the road (pavement). Quite a bit more near locked out than propedal
    - I run the shock completely open on anything other than non-technical dirt climbing where I'll run it half way.
    - Extremely supportive mid-stroke and buttery all the way through. On fast rock gardens it doesn't pack and keeps working consistently while on bigger hits it's extremely plush (again no comparison w/ other shocks on this frame).

    I had similar reservations initially given I couldn't find much about them let alone any new ones, but so far very happy with the decision. The TST lever is right up my alley (so is propedal is concept). While the Hi/Lo reb/comp adjustments and degree on the CCDBA is absolutely awesome they would be under utilized for me.

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    Aviator, what Marz did you get, never thought about it but their forks are really well reviewed.

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    I think the Vivid Air would do nicely for DH.
    The CC DB-Air is more an AM shock until the full travel issue gets sorted out.

    Fork wise the Marzocchi 66 RC3 Evo Ti and maybe go with the cane creek angle set.

    I would also call the Bikeco and see what they recommend.


    Vivid Air thread.
    Mojo HD gets Vivid Air'd at Rockshox Ride Experience
    Last edited by mbikerguy; 05-22-2012 at 07:50 PM.

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    Smile

    I was at Mtn Creek last weekend with my HD, I have a 160 Float and RP23. I will not be able to go for two bikes at the moment so need to make some adjustments to the HD to follow my son to his races this season. I also ride technical AM at home. Thinking a Talas 180 will work up front.....180 for races and 140 for tech (and it is reasonably light). For the rear I am leaning towards the vivid air....sounds like it can get away with tech AM as well as shine at the races....any comments/ advise would be much appreciated.

    Is anyone currently using this set up? if so how is it and what tune is the vivid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by recleaver View Post
    Aviator, what Marz did you get, never thought about it but their forks are really well reviewed.
    '12 Marz Roco Air TST R

    http://www.marzocchi.com/template/de...dOggetto=59677

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    I have the 160mm 55 rc3 with the Vivid Air - medium tune.

    I'm getting the X-Fusion 170mm Vengeance coil with special tune from Bikeco next.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyguist 1 View Post
    I was at Mtn Creek last weekend with my HD, I have a 160 Float and RP23. I will not be able to go for two bikes at the moment so need to make some adjustments to the HD to follow my son to his races this season. I also ride technical AM at home. Thinking a Talas 180 will work up front.....180 for races and 140 for tech (and it is reasonably light). For the rear I am leaning towards the vivid air....sounds like it can get away with tech AM as well as shine at the races....any comments/ advise would be much appreciated.

    Is anyone currently using this set up? if so how is it and what tune is the vivid?

  18. #18
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    I ran my HD at a world class DH course not too long ago (Thredbo, in OZ). Set up with 170mm Marz travel up front and 160mm of Vivid coil out back.

    Interestingly I also had my DH bike there for back-to-back comparisons. The HD was definitely great fun on the DH course, but much harder work through the rough stuff when compared to my Nicolai with 200mm Kowa's up front and ~180-185mm of CCDB out back. The Nicolai was more fun in that it held considerably more speed through rough terrain, but when it smoothed out the HD shon, and felt almost as stable and planted. The DH bike was considerably faster overall, but sometimes speed isn't everything.

  19. #19
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    If it were me I'd want a seperate shock/fork/tires/seat post for true DH. Slap a 180 van (or equivalant) fork, a double barrel coil/RC4, some dual ply tires, and a chopped non dropper seatpost to slam.

    Wouldn't even bother leaving it setup for a do it all, two setups is ideal, unless you like pedaling a slug on trail rides, or want to ride a trail bike on real Downhill (both suck, but would rather pedal a slug if I had too then ride a xc bike down real dh)

    You're gonna beat the crap outta your bike tho. You're better off with a seperate rig

  20. #20
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    Yep, totally agree. I almost always run my HD in a fairly light AM/trail 140mm guise but my full setup for HD160 guise was much more DH-inspired, as below...

    FORKS: Marzocchi 66 RC2X 170mm
    SHOCK: RockShox Vivid 5.1 Coil R2 B-tune (+HD160 chips)
    BARS: Burgtec Ridewider 780mm, low rise
    STEM: Kalloy 50mm/0 rise
    PEDALS: Superstar CNC Mag platforms
    TIRES: Intense 909 EXDC, 2.35" R, 2.5" F.

    Really helps create two very different feeling packages! Only thing missing is pehaps shock offset bushes to get it a little lower & slacker in HD160 guise.

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    In a similar boat, and curious to hear more experiences. Subscribed.

    My HD is set up for trail/AM riding with Talas 160; RP23; hadley/flow wheels.

    I bought a 2011 Marz 66 Ti Evo fork on closeout (~400 bucks, still in the box), thinking that this would make it more park-worthy for the half-dozen days I'm likely to ride lifts during the year. Realistically, I'm thinking that thrashing my nice wheels would be inevitable and a mistake, as well as fearing the durability of the tubeless setup in bigger and rougher terrain. So probably need to get a cheap pair of DH wheels and tires too. (another 400-450 bucks). If the RP23 won't cut it, add a coil shock to that (what, 2-300 bucks?). Probably have a beater post and seat lying around.

    But suddenly it's looking like a much less quick swap between modes (I like to alternate days riding and coasting), and dollars adding up to close to the cost of a used DH bike... Wife would probably strangle me if I even mentioned thinking about another bike, so perhaps I'll just ride it as is this season and think about a full DH rig next year? Damn, I was assuming I'd be able to get away with the one bike quiver...

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