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  1. #1
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    Moho HD and pedal bob

    Just curious for those, if any who have time on an HD... Ibis website says the HD is "optimized for a 32t chainring and therefore, the 22 or 24t ring in the Hammerschmidt will promote pedal bob". Is it safe to say the 22,32,44 stylo triple parts pick will promote pedal bob in the 22t ring or "granny"?

    I ride a tired 1st version yeti 575 and and Like what the HD has to offer however, the 575 climbs great in the granny. Should I be looking to buy the newer version 575 rather than the HD?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokerslo
    Just curious for those, if any who have time on an HD... Ibis website says the HD is "optimized for a 32t chainring and therefore, the 22 or 24t ring in the Hammerschmidt will promote pedal bob". Is it safe to say the 22,32,44 stylo triple parts pick will promote pedal bob in the 22t ring or "granny"?

    I ride a tired 1st version yeti 575 and and Like what the HD has to offer however, the 575 climbs great in the granny. Should I be looking to buy the newer version 575 rather than the HD?
    Those two cranks are totally different even with the same chain ring size because of the internal gearing on the HS. With the HS cranks you get the chain angle of the 22 coupled with the chain tension of the larger ring it is emulating. That's why it behaves differently.

    A normal triple is fine. We find ourselves spending a lot of time in the mid ring, so it's nice to have around 100% anti-squat there. It feels very responsive climbing mid or granny ring.

    H
    Hans
    Ibis Cycles, Inc.

  3. #3
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    Stokers,

    The HD or 575 or whatever will pedal the exact same whether you are in the 22t HS, Stylo 22t granny, SLX 22t granny, etc...

    It's the middle ring that these bikes were "optimized" around. The granny and big rings will always be a pedaling compromise.

    But I love my HammerSchmidt.
    The advantages (clearance, chain management, INSTANT shifting, etc...) far outweigh any of the pedal "bob" that people who haven't ridden it e-complain about...
    It's not where it's made but how it's made.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokerslo
    Just curious for those, if any who have time on an HD... Is it safe to say the 22,32,44 stylo triple parts pick will promote pedal bob in the 22t ring or "granny"?
    I saw negligible bob while doing a short parking lot climbing test of the HD with a 22 granny and a soft damped RP23 using no Propedal. The HD seems as bob-free as the Mojo when pedaling, but way more plush and higher speed and steep drop oriented handling.

    The HD seems optimized like other DW links generally to use the middle ring for most relatively level riding both standing and seated with shorter ups and downs, and doing long seated climbing with a granny, and big ring mainly for high speed downhill pedaling. Variations in ring size will work just fine.

    In his most recent blog entry, Sept 2008 on DW-Link.com, DW explains the optimization of chainrings. (Scroll down the first page a short way.)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I saw negligible bob while doing a short parking lot climbing test of the HD with a 22 granny and a soft damped RP23 using no Propedal. The HD seems as bob-free as the Mojo when pedaling, but way more plush and higher speed and steep drop oriented handling.

    The HD seems optimized like other DW links generally to use the middle ring for most relatively level riding both standing and seated with shorter ups and downs, and doing long seated climbing with a granny, and big ring mainly for high speed downhill pedaling. Variations in ring size will work just fine.

    In his most recent blog entry, Sept 2008 on DW-Link.com, DW explains the optimization of chainrings. (Scroll down the first page a short way.)
    That musta been one hellava parking lot ride!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinsMental
    Stokers,

    The HD or 575 or whatever will pedal the exact same whether you are in the 22t HS, Stylo 22t granny, SLX 22t granny, etc...

    It's the middle ring that these bikes were "optimized" around. The granny and big rings will always be a pedaling compromise.

    But I love my HammerSchmidt.
    The advantages (clearance, chain management, INSTANT shifting, etc...) far outweigh any of the pedal "bob" that people who haven't ridden it e-complain about...
    Here's what DW says about it. I think this is a pretty good explanation:

    "OK, now for the tie in! The amount of anti-squat that a suspension can develop is based on (among other things) the angle of the ground that the bike is riding on and the angle of the chainline. It just so happens that as a bike is climbing a hill, the amount of anti-squat drops because the direction of gravity in relation to the bike changes. What this means is that if you are pedalling along in your 32-18 on flat ground and have just the right amount of anti-squat, then start to climb a steep hill, say 15 degrees or so, the amount of anti-squat is going to lessen. It just so happens that moving the chainline downward, say like if you selected your 22T cog, increases anti-squat. In an Apollo 13 like turn of events, people actually use their 22T cog when they climb hills as steep as 15 degrees (you basically have to). The two changing anti-squat amounts balance out, leaving the rider with very similar riding characteristics while climbing in the granny and riding on the flat in the middle ring. Amazing, huh? As you may have guessed, the same goes for descending with a larger ring."
    Hans
    Ibis Cycles, Inc.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc
    Here's what DW says about it. I think this is a pretty good explanation:
    Cool. No argument here.

    For some people though, the benefits of HS far outweight the negatives.

    I'd be curious to see what DW has to say about chain torque and anti-squat.

    The torque loads on HS are lower in the OverDrive gear than in the 1:1 gear. I'd imagine this would affect anti-squat.
    It's not where it's made but how it's made.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    That musta been one hellava parking lot ride!
    Yes it was! It was very convincing. By jumping off and later back to my optimized coil suspended Mojo, so well tuned for me, and feeling immediately very comfortable and very impressed by the HD. Returning to ride my bike after the HD test ride was the first time I wasn't a lot happier riding my Mojo.

    I bought my Mojo without even a parking lot test, just riding it in my mind was impressive enough. That is, knowing what I wanted in frame geometry, travel, and suspension design from demoing similar designs previously.

    Bob is most easily seen on pavement, the loading ramp at Ibis was a good test for climbing bob comparisons.

    Experienced riders of many mountain bikes can learn quite a lot from a parking lot test.

    Edit: removed a comment on beginners which may have seemed arrogant. I don't mean to be condescending at all on MTBR, just help other friendly riders and learn more.
    Last edited by derby; 03-21-2010 at 05:46 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby

    Experienced riders of many mountain bikes can learn quite a lot from a parking lot test. Beginners can only get a feel for fit comfort when guided by an expert, not much more.
    Ah I see

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby

    I bought my Mojo without even a parking lot test, just riding it in my mind was impressive enough.
    Bob is most easily seen on pavement, the loading ramp at Ibis was a good test for climbing bob comparisons.

    Experienced riders of many mountain bikes can learn quite a lot from a parking lot test. Beginners can only get a feel for fit comfort when guided by an expert, not much more.
    I can't wait until there's a Mountain Bike Action "parking lot shoot-out" test.
    Or better yet - "Shootout in YOUR MIND"
    here we go again

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Ah I see

  12. #12
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    thats good to know !!! ill save time when buying my next ride!!....................not

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