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  1. #1
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    Mavs XX1 HD setup

    Hi all

    Just so other threads dont get blogged up on questions re XX1 on my rig, Ive posted this to its own thread hope its helpful.

    This build was put together by LBS, speccing sizzing re q factor etc, I do not know if its right or wrong, it works great has been totally reliable, not dropped a chain missed a shift.

    2 months solid riding day after day. Summer here.

    Ive made no modifications at the rear chainstay, seatstay junction, e.g filing etc, the chain is very close to the ss, cs bridge and Im still not sure how its not marked scratched gauged, can only think XX1 clutch, chain, cogs maintain such aligment and constant good tension theyres no bouncing into the chain stay seat stay bridge.

    Speccs:
    Frame: Large
    Hub: DT 240 142x12
    Wheels: Enve
    Front 32t
    Rear, 10-42t
    Chain links: 54 links


    Heres an under view of my frame bottom bracket area.



    Q factor is q168, this is measured center of frame BB housing to cranks outer arm as per diagram below.




    Chainline could be better in the 10t to front ring, but moving the crank into the frame, e.g removing the only spacer between the BB and frame would only worsen the line, moving it out would probably compromise the larger gears up the cluster, the weird thing is this is supposed to be exactly the same as 10speed in spacing at the rear, having not run an HD before, I dont know what the HD chain line high and low was like on a 10spd setup.

    Everything is a compromise though and overall Im loving the XX1, its been awesome for me and as close to perfection I can get, its simple it works and really enjoying my riding another benefit is my fitness has gone up exponentially, not sure exactly why, same amount of riding I usually do this time of year but maybe its due to the overall efficiencies gained and better recovery during rides, my legs certainly don't get tired they way they used too on my older single ring setups when I ran 9spd and 10spd setups, the spread at the rear just seems to work well for me.
    Maybe the Mojo/HD combined also is a factor.

    The other big noticeable difference for me is even less gear changes than usual, so Im probably pretty dialled gearing wise for my home trails.



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    I'm not trying to question your set up, but on the GXP isn't it supposed to be one 2.5 spacer on each side of the BB for the 68mm BB width (HD width). I see you have two 2.5 spacers on the NDS. This would create the chainline problem that you mention could be better between the 10t and chainring. I know on GXP BB the NDS cup actually creates the chain line because the crank bolts up to that cup/bearing. By adding that spacer to the NDS you are pulling the crank and chainring in closer to the BB centerline causing the problem with the 10t cog.

    It is very different from Shimano and other setups. I know Shimano would use two 2.5 spacers on the DS with a 68mm BB. Like I said not questioning your set up, but it looks like it could be the problem. I'm sure you may have done this for other reasons.

    Also in your opinion would the 156Q factor crank work? Hans said it would but it is a close fit.

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    Thanx a bunch!!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcoton21 View Post
    Thanx a bunch!!!
    No probs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    I'm not trying to question your set up, but on the GXP isn't it supposed to be one 2.5 spacer on each side of the BB for the 68mm BB width (HD width). I see you have two 2.5 spacers on the NDS. This would create the chainline problem that you mention could be better between the 10t and chainring. I know on GXP BB the NDS cup actually creates the chain line because the crank bolts up to that cup/bearing. By adding that spacer to the NDS you are pulling the crank and chainring in closer to the BB center line causing the problem with the 10t cog.

    It is very different from Shimano and other setups. I know Shimano would use two 2.5 spacers on the DS with a 68mm BB. Like I said not questioning your set up, but it looks like it could be the problem. I'm sure you may have done this for other reasons.

    Also in your opinion would the 156Q factor crank work? Hans said it would but it is a close fit.
    I didn't actually set it up, my LBS / plus the guys have setup lots of HDs in the past with Sram cranks and Shimano, so I trust them pretty good at what they do, plus they had installed nearly 20 sets of XX1 on other bikes before my frame arrived so I wasn't the crash test dummy this time haha.

    I know what you are saying though and I did wonder myself re the 68mm BB, its clear they show one spacer either side pic below.

    Sram is not much different to Shimano other than how the cranks actually nip up which is still from the NDS, Shimano just uses the two pinch bolts instead of a center bolt, I cant see how it would alter the chain line on the drive side, it still has one 2.5 spacer on that side which is correct, take that out and it would screw up the alignment completely.

    This is setup by top guys so I'm sure they wouldn't have add 2 on the non drive side for no reason, still I'm open minded, bearing in mind I have had no issues or have none, I've purely posted this for others as I've had quite a few requests, PMs etc so thought it might be helpful.

    Last edited by Maverick005; 01-29-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re the 156Q, I wouldn't do it without measuring it first in hand, buying the cranks blind and hoping could be costly, they're is room but it might not leave any room for adjustment if its close.

    The other thing I'd say with 156Q is for me I would hit the upper seat stays close to the seat tube /shock region, I did this a bit when I first got my HD, not now that 'm used to it but still close enough I don't think I would want a closer Q factor.

    I'm more DH style bike rider as well so knees out not in, I move around allot on my cleats for weighting up weighting so would not suit me, climbing is a necessary evil, pedal efficiency is high but still last on my list of needs.

    Drive Side arm clearance


    Non Drive Side



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    Thanks a lot!! very helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick005 View Post
    I didn't actually set it up, my LBS / plus the guys have setup lots of HDs in the past with Sram cranks and Shimano, so I trust them pretty good at what they do, plus they had installed nearly 20 sets of XX1 on other bikes before my frame arrived so I wasn't the crash test dummy this time haha.

    I know what you are saying though and I did wonder myself re the 68mm BB, its clear they show one spacer either side pic below.

    Sram is not much different to Shimano other than how the cranks actually nip up which is still from the NDS, Shimano just uses the two pinch bolts instead of a center bolt, I cant see how it would alter the chain line on the drive side, it still has one 2.5 spacer on that side which is correct, take that out and it would screw up the alignment completely.

    This is setup by top guys so I'm sure they wouldn't have add 2 on the non drive side for no reason, still I'm open minded, bearing in mind I have had no issues or have none, I've purely posted this for others as I've had quite a few requests, PMs etc so thought it might be helpful.

    Yeah he might have intentionally set it up this way. I also shift the chain line a little inward to the larger cogs because that is where I spend more of my ride time. That is why I did not want to come across as critical of your build. That said though there are still too many spacers in there and it might cause bearing issues, may be worth asking him. I am currently building my Vitmin P with XX1. Glad to hear you don't have any clearance issues with the freehub and chain. Beautiful bike, good luck.

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    The confusion may be from the Shimano BB51 having three 2.5mm spacers for a 68mm Bottom B. There are two on the drive side and one on the crank side.

    Are you running a shimano BB? Or is it the one that comes with the XX1? If it's the SRAM BB then it may not be a bad idea to pull the crank off and check how much spline is showing?

    It could also be a "typo" on the SRAM instructions....like an Engineer never screws up a drawing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Yeah he might have intentionally set it up this way. I also shift the chain line a little inward to the larger cogs because that is where I spend more of my ride time. That is why I did not want to come across as critical of your build. That said though there are still too many spacers in there and it might cause bearing issues, may be worth asking him. I am currently building my Vitmin P with XX1. Glad to hear you don't have any clearance issues with the freehub and chain. Beautiful bike, good luck.
    Will check with them, still if they're was any extra resistance against the bearings sure Id feel that, this is one if not the most frictionless crank/BB systems Ive run, always had XTR level, XO, Raceface Turbines, Deus, Atlas etc, e13 DH. installed these myself many times so Im not new to this, normally I would do it myself.
    I dont think I will have any bb issues, I regularly work on my bike so will keep an eye on it, bit anal about regurlar maintenance haha,
    cheers

    Ps whats up with new look mtbr, not sure about it.

  11. #11
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    Canuk, I have had the crank off, but next time will check that, didn't notice anything last time. Cheers
    Just so ya know this thread is not about an issue with my XX1 my bike is running sweet, more to help even if mines wrong to help others haha, still I will look at that just in case.

    Cheers

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    Sweet ride!! Lov'n the XX1.

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    I'd love to see some pictures of the complete bike.

  14. #14
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    I am running 156Q no problem. When I called Ibis they said it was the preferred setup but either would work. Have had zero problems so far.

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    I just rant into a problem with the 156Q setup. The non-drive side is way too close to the chainstays. I can easily flex them into contact.

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    Do you have the 2.5 mm spacer on the BB non drive side? I will take a photo of my clearance and BB setup.

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    Yes, 1 2.5mm spacer on each side. I am using the CK BB so that may have something to do with it, but that seems unlikely.

  18. #18
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    My recommendation would be to get the GXP or ceramic Sram BB. I have a Chris King and did not use it based on their requirement for a bunch of spacers.

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    Really close on the left. Maybe 2-3mm of space.

    Mavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-left.jpgMavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-right.jpg

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    Really close on the left. Maybe 2-3mm of space.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    How is the chain line? I am setting my HD up now with XX1, I like to set up the chainline slightly adjusted toward the larger cogs to allow for better chainline in the climbing gears. The way your crank is, it would be perfect to add 1 or 2 mm of spacer in the NDS BB cup to pull the crank more to the NDS and possibly give a better chainline. Because the way SRAM and GXP BB works all that is determined by the NDS BB and Spacer. Look at the OP posting and see the shop that set his up used two 2.5mm spacer on the NDS. You might be able to find a happy medium with 1 or 2mm extra. Looking at mine I see there is about 3-4mm of room before the DS contacts the DS BB cup. Good luck

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    I was thinking about that. However, it is a bit of a band-aid. I may want to run a chainguide under certain circumstances and I wouldn't be able to do that if I moved a bb spacer from the DS to the NDS (or a fraction thereof).

    I also won't be able to run booties on the cranks with the current setup. Calling CK to see what their thoughts are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    I was thinking about that. However, it is a bit of a band-aid. I may want to run a chainguide under certain circumstances and I wouldn't be able to do that if I moved a bb spacer from the DS to the NDS (or a fraction thereof).

    I also won't be able to run booties on the cranks with the current setup. Calling CK to see what their thoughts are.
    No not as a band aid. There is no reason to remove or adjust the DS spacer. With the full 2.5mm DS spacer there is still that 3-4mm of gap to play with. Use it to adjust chainline and still be able to use a BB mounted chain guide. They way GXP works is spindle is bolted to the NDS BB bearing. The DS just floats, there is no side load in the GXP BB. This is why GXP BB always spin nicely. I am actually setting mine up with a Enduro ceramic BB. Chris King BB actually uses spindle spacers to take up that float (on the DS) and make it like a Shimano set up, but you can still adjust it the chainline the same way with BB spacers and in turn adjust the crank spacing. And then you would use less of the Chris King spindle spacers. It will take a little time but could work out perfectly for you.

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    If I understand you correctly, use another non drive side 2.5mm spacer for the NDS BB cup and in turn remove some of the CK spindle spacers.

    If so, that sounds like a pretty good idea. I will have to try that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    If I understand you correctly, use another non drive side 2.5mm spacer for the NDS BB cup and in turn remove some of the CK spindle spacers.

    If so, that sounds like a pretty good idea. I will have to try that.
    I think you understand the concept, however I can not give you exact thickness you have to work with. 2.5mm might work, but it also might be too much. Try it and check the chainline and your crank clearances to the chainstay. I actually have some .7mm and 1.2mm thickness BB spacers for just this type of tinkering. Good luck. Hope it works out.

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    That makes sense. Thanks again.

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    Something is off with your setup looking at the pictures. I don't think moving spacers around is going to help unless you are removing from the drive side. From what I have seen the NDS is swaged onto the spindle with the fixing bolt so moving it farther out is just going to make it more likely to come loose. Do you have a picture of the BB spacer setup?

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    I followed bpd131's suggestion and that helped, although I'd personally probably use a 168Q crank next time.

    Please note that my problem came in part from a CK BB so things are a bit different for most other people. While you would normally use 1 BB spacer on each side, I now use 2 BB spacers on the NDS and 1 spacer on the DS. However, I compensate for that by only using 2 spindle spacers (instead of 4) that are required to use a CK BB. This has evened out the spacing a lot. Here are some pics.

    Mavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-left-2.jpgMavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-right-2.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    I followed bpd131's suggestion and that helped, although I'd personally probably use a 168Q crank next time.

    Please note that my problem came in part from a CK BB so things are a bit different for most other people. While you would normally use 1 BB spacer on each side, I now use 2 BB spacers on the NDS and 1 spacer on the DS. However, I compensate for that by only using 2 spindle spacers (instead of 4) that are required to use a CK BB. This has evened out the spacing a lot. Here are some pics.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm glad it helped and it looks even at least, but it does look close to the chainstays. How is your chainline, I'm thinking it falls pretty close to middle cog of the rear cassette. Can you tell which cog provides the straightest chainline? Crank boots would be real close. I guess I am glad I have the 168q cranks.

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    From the biggest cog, the sixth gear down. This is on a 10 speed cassette. I will let you know re 11 speed once my other wheel comes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Something is off with your setup looking at the pictures. I don't think moving spacers around is going to help unless you are removing from the drive side. From what I have seen the NDS is swaged onto the spindle with the fixing bolt so moving it farther out is just going to make it more likely to come loose. Do you have a picture of the BB spacer setup?

    It is swaged into the spindle as you suggest and the bolt just clamps down on the bearing (actually the stepped part of the spindle to the bearing shim to the NDS crank arm), so if you move the entire spindle/BB as a unit the interface of the spindle, shim and NDS crank arm does not change, its just shifted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    From the biggest cog, the sixth gear down. This is on a 10 speed cassette. I will let you know re 11 speed once my other wheel comes in.
    That's right there in the middle somewhere. Like I said before I even try to shift a little to the larger cogs to allow better chain line for climbing. This was with the 10 speed and back pedaling would cause the chain to fall to the inside. This is supposed to be a non-issue with the new XX1. We'll see.

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    I ended up deciding to buy another set of XX1 cranks with a 168Q factor. There is just not enough room between the spider and the crankarm for a chainguide with a 32-34 tooth chainring. I may not need a chainguide 99% of the time, but if I go to ride at Whistler or someplace similar, I just want the option of doing so. So, if anyone needs a set of 156Q XX1 cranks, let me know.

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    Here are some pics of the same bike with a 168Q XX1 crank and CK BB. I also fitted a E13 XCX-ST guide, but that requires some modifications (grinding) to the guide and guide spacer. Whether you use a 156 or 168Q factor really depends on whether you want to be able to use a guide and whether you prefer a wider stance. The chainline is identical.

    Mavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-168q-right.jpgMavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-168q-side.jpg
    Mavs XX1 HD setup-xx1-168q-left.jpg

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    Thanks for the Q factor info in this thread. I went with 168Q rather than 156Q for my HD. Partly because I am coming from an XT triple with 175Q and it never felt particularly wide to me. But also because I ride flat pedals with bulky 5.10 shoes, and already I occasionally hit the chainstay with my heel using the XT cranks.

    I wonder if that is a consideration for other people - are narrow Q factors more suited to people using narrow cleated shoes and clipless pedals where their feet are mostly fixed in one place on the pedals, and wider Q factors more appropriate for flat pedals with bulkier shoes and more foot movement?
    Last edited by trenchDiggr; 02-15-2013 at 11:45 AM.

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    Not for me. I ride both clipless and flats. I am pretty tall so a larger Q factor doesn't bother me. I am also used to a wider Q factor from years of riding. More importantly though, a wider Q factor gave me the option of running booties for the cranks and the XCX chainguide. I stopped hitting the upper seatstays with my feet after a relatively short time on the HD.

  36. #36
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    Im a bigger guy also narrow q factor would not suit me, I like my knees out, I clear my seat stays now, but would scrub the crap out of them with 156q for sure.

    My setup has still been flawless, just smashed out a mini DH yesterday had a good race run for me, so stoked on how the HD and XX1 performed. Will get a vid up sometime tonight, totally sick as track and event, mini DH no chain guide felt totally secure weird but so cool.

    My bike was silent many bikes in practice sounded like ****e, though could have done with a 34t front ring, topping out on pedalling sections in top gear on a 32t, also 160mm would have been nice, 140 rocked but had a few moments where I nearly pedal striked, still rode clean.


  37. #37
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    Some of the issues I experience with XX1: Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?

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    I'm running a HD160 size M with Chris King BB, one spacer in each side and XX1 Q factor 156...no problems in clearance.

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    What rear hubs work best with the XX1 on an HD. Some have reported clearance issues with the chain rubbing on the frame.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by vamaro View Post
    What rear hubs work best with the XX1 on an HD. Some have reported clearance issues with the chain rubbing on the frame.
    Its not the hub, its the way the key hole in the derailluer hanger is designed for the Syntace 142 system/maxle axle.

    The 10t cog lines up where a 11t cog on a ten speed setup would be, both are too close, but that 11t sits the chain a little higher.

    On my mates 10spd HD setup he still has scoring where the chain has beyotch slapped the stays.

    Ive used 2 nylon pedal washers that slot into the derailluer hanger on the inside it spaces the 10t cog to easily clear the stays, its a pain to install remove the wheels only because you must catch the washers when you pull the axle out, and then fiddle them back in when re-installing the wheel.

    If it wasnt for the Sram clutch lock which is awesome it would be a total pain in the arse to accomplish, it works, still prefer a redesiged derailluer hanger though, Im gonna lose those spacers one day, but no way am I hacking into my carbon stays.

    I use Dt 240s btw.

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    Gave my HD a mini overhaul before today's ride.

    So for anyone running XX1 you may or may not have noticed if you grab the jockey cage it feels sticky in initial movement, Ive wanted to do this service for awhile but thought I needed a 55 torx end but a 8mm Allen key works and fits no sweat.

    So in case u dont know what Im rambling about, on the outer RD clutch interface is a dust cover, use a jewellers flat bladed screwdriver or something similar to pop off the round dust cover!

    Underneath is the 55 torx or 8mm Allen bolt, remove remembering how tight it feels, as this adjusts the clutch tension, so remember how it felt for when you re tighten it or count the number of turns!

    This has a O ring on it and is a little tricky to re-install so don't hack it and cross thread it when re-installing it and don't over tighten it this will make the jockey cage too tight.



    Opposite of what you are trying to achieve!

    You may or may not want to remove the 3mm Allen bolt on the top of the jockey cage this will remove the whole clutch.

    From factory these internals are dry and this is why you may have noticed some noise, I never have, but have felt its initial stickiness especially while bouncing up and down stationary or slow climbing.

    Lube, grease I used Phil Wood grease all the internal components and re-install in reverse, you will be amazed at how much smoother and quicker it goes up and down the cassette, if like me you may need to re-adjust your set screws, for me it was the small cog and a half barrel turn.

    Done!

    Man this changed fast before, better than anything Id previously ridden. But now not only feels new, but better way way better than stock.

    Give it a try, even doing the first 2 steps and dropping some lube in they're like Squirt lube will make a massive difference!

    cheers XX1 dudes.

  42. #42
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    Thanks for the heads up. Will give it a go.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. Will give it a go.
    No probs works a treat!

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