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  1. #1
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    lower headset knock on mojo hd?

    I cam hear/feel my lower headset bearing knocking when rocking the bike back n forth. What else is weird is i cam tighten my headset bolt super tight and it does not make the steering tighter/bind. Everything seems good, the fork race is seated nicely. Cups seem to be tight. Enough space between bottom.of.top.cap and top of steer tube. Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    What headset?

    Dumb question, but you did fully loosen the stem clamp bolts before trying to tighten the top cap bolt, correct? Gotta ask

  3. #3
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    Insert in head tube coming unglued?

  4. #4
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    Cane creek XX. yeah, stem bolts loosened first.

  5. #5
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    The bearings must be busted.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I cam hear/feel my lower headset bearing knocking when rocking the bike back n forth. What else is weird is i cam tighten my headset bolt super tight and it does not make the steering tighter/bind. Everything seems good, the fork race is seated nicely. Cups seem to be tight. Enough space between bottom.of.top.cap and top of steer tube. Any ideas?
    If you tightened the top cap and the steering did not tighten, that sounds like the top cap is bottomed on the steerer. Though you say there is enough space. Maybe add another spacer on top of the stem as a double check on that space.

  7. #7
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    I am in the process of replacing the Cane Creek XX headset on my friend's bike and it is making the same knocking sound. But if I tighten it down, it does bind so only half of the similarities as you.

    When I pulled the headset apart, the bearings still sit nicely in the cups but the inner race is loose and can be moved both horziontally and vertically by the steerertube.

    I say try the add'l spacer height again to see if still doesn't bind when tightening.

  8. #8
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    I read somewhere and saw pictures, that some tapered steer tubes don't taper enough for some head tubes and bind on the upper bearing, preventing full tightening. The lower bearing would be loose in this case.

    Remove the fork and look for markings where the upper bearing would etch a ring around the steer tube.

    Good luck!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    I read somewhere and saw pictures, that some tapered steer tubes don't taper enough for some head tubes and bind on the upper bearing, preventing full tightening. The lower bearing would be loose in this case.

    Remove the fork and look for markings where the upper bearing would etch a ring around the steer tube.

    Good luck!
    Wow that would be ridic, I'll take a look

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Wow that would be ridic, I'll take a look
    i have a chris king tapered headset and i experience the same problem- would like to see if the cause is the tapered thing or the headset itself. i have added spacers and it stays tight for a ride a or too then knocks again...

  11. #11
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    You could switch to an external headset up top to give yourself a bit more room in there. Kind of sucks though.

  12. #12
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    Tried adding a spacer and it changed nothing, tried using a different split ring with no change. No matter what my steering won't bind up no matter how hard I tighten the top bolt. Didn't see any rings on the fork steer from being too short, and as far as I can tell everything looks okay when inspecting. I'm no headset expert but this one is strange. I'll call Cane Creek in the morning

  13. #13
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    If the taper of the steering tube were too long, would it even leave a mark on the steerer necessarily? Seems like the part of the headset that would contact the taper would be turning with the steerer, so might not score it. I may be visualizing this all wrong, but if I were you, Yody, I wouldn't be writing that possibility off yet.

    ....or maybe it has something to do with the hole you drilled in your frame for your dropper post

  14. #14
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    ....or maybe it has something to do with the hole you drilled in your frame for your dropper post
    Are you serious

  15. #15
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    Naw.... just f'n with you.
    Seriously, hope you figure it out.

  16. #16
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    Where are you positioning the split in the crown race? If it's at the front or back it can open when rocking causing it to feel loose. Try putting it to the side.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Naw.... just f'n with you.
    Seriously, hope you figure it out.


    talked to Cane Creek today, and they can't seem to come up with a solution..... Wondering if I should just buy a new headset, kinda sucks, considering this one is only 1.5 years old.

  18. #18
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    Do you have access to another fork to try? I too remember reading about mis-tapered forks somewhere on MTBR. I think it may have been Marzocchi????

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Do you have access to another fork to try? I too remember reading about mis-tapered forks somewhere on MTBR. I think it may have been Marzocchi????
    After second thought, if it was the tall taper problem, it would also be loose between the upper bearing to upper race while pressing down on the top-tube seating the lower, I'd think, a bit like tightening the stem before both bearings were seated down snug by tightening the top cap first.

    Maybe run it by a LBS for another pair of eyes?

    A lower end head set can wear out quickly if a little over tightened. Seems like a high end head set can endure about as much as an L-shaped hex wrench can tighten by hand, up to a feel of binding.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Are you serious
    at least he didn't say you run cement truck tire pressure and thats the cause

  21. #21
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    Another thing to look is the star nut, it could be flexing or moving or worst of all the threaded section maybe rotating when tightened. Trying another set of forks with a different star nut could help you find out.

  22. #22
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    Interesting point on the tapering on the fork being too tall. I've never even thought of that happening. Did this problem happen over time, or has it always knocked like this? Putting on a new fork and just discovering the problem? I'd measure from the bearing race when it is on the fork to the end of the taper and that measurement should be less than the distance of cup to cup on the frame. The upper bearing could be compressing down on top of the last couple mm of the taper. That could keep the whole assembly from tightening down.
    YouTube | #1 Rule for California mtb: If you're having fun, it's illegal.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Interesting point on the tapering on the fork being too tall. I've never even thought of that happening. Did this problem happen over time, or has it always knocked like this? Putting on a new fork and just discovering the problem? I'd measure from the bearing race when it is on the fork to the end of the taper and that measurement should be less than the distance of cup to cup on the frame. The upper bearing could be compressing down on top of the last couple mm of the taper. That could keep the whole assembly from tightening down.
    I'm pretty sure if he didn't ride like such a hack his problem would be solved

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb-ripper View Post
    I'm pretty sure if he didn't ride like such a hack his problem would be solved
    Youre riding xc bikes with 32 forks these days, no.room to talk lol

  25. #25
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    check your top bolt. I stripped mine and it would display the same symptoms as you are having. I was trying to chase down a lower knock like you and kept tightneing and could never get it tight because I stripped the bolt in the process. And my knock ended up being bushing play in the forks so check that also.

  26. #26
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    I have the same problem with the same headset on, but it's not my headset. It's the fork bushings on my fox. I took it into the shop, we had 3 guys hold and move the bike, and 2 guys on each side holding fingers at the top and midway though the fork, and that's where we found the play. I thought it was the headset too, but it ended up being light play in the fork. It's not bad, it doesn't bug me much, so I am riding it till I change out the forks.

  27. #27
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    I thought it might be the fork bushings as well, but you can rock the bike back and forth and you feel the "clack" in the lower headset, as well if you put your ears up to the frame you can hear it specifically right there. And the fact that the steering doesn't get tight when tightening the bolt leads me to believe something is not right.

    The threads are not stripped, I know the feeling of stripped threads, this is not it. The bolt gets very tight.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I thought it might be the fork bushings as well, but you can rock the bike back and forth and you feel the "clack" in the lower headset, as well if you put your ears up to the frame you can hear it specifically right there. And the fact that the steering doesn't get tight when tightening the bolt leads me to believe something is not right.

    The threads are not stripped, I know the feeling of stripped threads, this is not it. The bolt gets very tight.
    Mine does the exact same thing. I can keep tightening the head bolt as well. I am getting different forks soon and will see if that does anything. I'm not really worried about it as I can't tell when out riding, unless it's more pronounced on yours.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Mine does the exact same thing. I can keep tightening the head bolt as well. I am getting different forks soon and will see if that does anything. I'm not really worried about it as I can't tell when out riding, unless it's more pronounced on yours.
    Weird, i don't think fork bushings have anything to do with the top bolt tightening, but not binding the steering. Looking forward to see if yours gets better with a new fork, I'm guessing it won't.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Weird, i don't think fork bushings have anything to do with the top bolt tightening, but not binding the steering. Looking forward to see if yours gets better with a new fork, I'm guessing it won't.
    Well I have play in there in the fork bushing, we can all feel it. It's slight but it's there. The bolt not tightning may just be spinning the nut (forget what you call it) but that's just my theory. Without changing the fork or headset on mine, I won't really know, but will find out soon enough. How bad is yours?

  31. #31
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    Just to confirm when you turn the bars 90deg, lock the front brake, and rock the bike for and aft, you can feel movement at the lower headset, and nothing at the top headset? If so, is it between the headset and frame or fork and headset?

    Here's a long shot - how about the star flanged nut inside the fork? Years ago I had one of those slide back up the fork and lock against the top nut so I wasn't actually tightening the headset. Needed a new one installed.

    This is an unusual one with quality headsets like this. Slop at the bottom instead of the top implies that the race is not seating properly. Could be a bad crown race or even one not meant for that headset. That would do what you're experiencing because it might be contacting somewhere other than only at the angular contact surface. It would also be a quick experiment for a shop to try a different crown race. A bad lower bearing would do it too, but I'd think you'd hear some crunch if the actual balls were broken.

  32. #32
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    "Here's a long shot - how about the star flanged nut inside the fork? Years ago I had one of those slide back up the fork and lock against the top nut so I wasn't actually tightening the headset. Needed a new one installed."


    That is the first thing I thought of as well. Let us know if you need any Ibis help.

    H

  33. #33
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    Does CK make a headset for the HD?

  34. #34
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    Inset #3 : Mixed Tapered

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    "Here's a long shot - how about the star flanged nut inside the fork? Years ago I had one of those slide back up the fork and lock against the top nut so I wasn't actually tightening the headset. Needed a new one installed."


    That is the first thing I thought of as well. Let us know if you need any Ibis help.

    H
    Im starting to suspect the lower bearing and/or cup. The star nut is an inch down the steer and isnt moving

  36. #36
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    Have you taken the lower bearing out and inspected it and the cup? Maybe there is something in there that is not allowing it to seat properly or something of that nature.

  37. #37
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    Having the same problem here..

    CC 110 Brand new. Niner RIP brand new. Marz. Carbon 29er fork. Lots of chater and some looseness acna be felt. Tight as I can get it and no binding???

    Taper to long?

  38. #38
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    yes i use the mixed inset one

  39. #39
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    Has the problem been solved? I'll be building a new HD and want to avoid these creaking issues. I'll be running a straight 1 1/8" and want a zero stack headset.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  40. #40
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    Any resolution?
    konahonzo

  41. #41
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    Pretty sure you can't run zero-stack lower cups on an HD. My Lyric would trash my frame if I ran one on my medium 2012. I've been very happy with my Cane Creek 110 headset but the lower cup is exposed. I do not run a tapered fork. Also, for those interested, Ibis has one of the most helpful setup guides available online. On top of that, they are known for customer service so I'd call them direct before asking most questions here.

  42. #42
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    I replaced the starnut and it still wont completely bind when torquing the topcap bolt, but so far the knocking "seems" to have gone away. I have to mess with it some more. Had a big crash saturday so might be two weeks before I ride again.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I replaced the starnut and it still wont completely bind when torquing the topcap bolt, but so far the knocking "seems" to have gone away. I have to mess with it some more. Had a big crash saturday so might be two weeks before I ride again.
    Bummer about the crash, heal up!
    I recall there being a thread a while back where people with the plastic Cane Creek spacers where experiencing headset knock due to them compressing. Any chance that could be it?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I replaced the starnut and it still wont completely bind when torquing the topcap bolt, but so far the knocking "seems" to have gone away. I have to mess with it some more. Had a big crash saturday so might be two weeks before I ride again.
    Bummer about the crash. As for the headset, you really shouldn't be trying to make the headset bind by overtightening the starnut. You have enough power in the bolt to basically pull the starnut out of proper position and ruin its grip within the steer tube. The stem bolts are what keeps everything tight, the starnut and bolt are just there to get everything into proper tension/position first.

  45. #45
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    Some experience here...

    I've got an HD almost 2 yrs old now. 2012 Fox Van 36 installed about 9 months ago now. Had a Cane Creek 110

    1) I started getting a pretty bad creak out of the headset and or fork crown area a couple months ago. I removed the fork and put it in a bench vice and isolated the noise to the crown/pressed stanchions area. Returned to Fox under warranty and that resolved the creaking.

    2) Couple things about the 110 headset. The crown race did not fit very tight on the steerer (1 1/4 - 1 1/8 taper). In fact it would actually spin on the steerer at full bottom. I didn't like that and replaced the headset with a Chris King. That resolved that problem.

    3) The Can Creek top cap is rather unintuitive in that it comes with a shim washer. For the better part of these 2 years I couldn't figure out why I never could get my headset adjusted just right. Well turns out it was binding because I hadn't used the shim washer. The instructions were rather shite if you ask me but I'm also a putx for taking 2 years to see the wear witness marks and realizing the problem. Like I said, replaced the Cane Creek with the CK. Problem resolved.

    4) In replacing the headset, when removing one of the bearing 'cups', the aluminum sleeve insert in the headtube of the HD came out! Dohh!!! They are epoxied in there and in my case, the bond apparently wasn't as strong as the press fit with the bearing cup. Ibis wanted me to return the frame but I begged and pleaded and they sent me a new insert and epoxy.

    So a number of potentially relevant experiences here for you: The fork may well be a culprit (but more likely creaks than knocks), I'm not a fan of Cane Creek headset fit and that may be a source of knock, and indeed, check your HD headtube inserts to make sure the bond is holding (another potential source of knock).

    Hope this helps? Good luck.

  46. #46
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    interesting you found the creak in the fork crown. i'm kind of having the opposite thing happen- i already have a chris king headset, and i can never tighten it down enough and seems to have some slop in the upper bearings- wonder if its really the insert in the hd though as you say your chris king is better. so are you able to completely torque it down to the point the fork wont turn? ive never been able to do that with my CK headset...

  47. #47
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    Clacking sound

    I am having the same problem with my HD. It is the only issue I have had with the bike, otherwise I absolutely love it. I also have a Cane Creek XX. I have tried a tapered air Lyrik, a 1 1/8 coil Lyrik, and a 150 Revelation (in 140 mode). I had the same problem with all of the forks. Mine also feels like I can't get it tight, and it clacks and pops when I am riding. I was thinking about getting a Chris King, but don't know now since others have had problems. Help?

  48. #48
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    I dunno, I've just been living with it, at some point I need to try a new lower bearing.

  49. #49
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    Oh and for anyone reading this, triple check and make sure your starnut is not pulling up through the fork and also make sure the noise isn't coming from your lower fork bushings. Those are two things that can really deceive you.

  50. #50
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    I know you guys have talked about the fork bushings, but have you checked out the shock bushings for the rear?

    I ask cause I recently took out an HD for a demo. Before taking possession of the bike I noticed one of the workers holding the brakes and pushing/pulling the bars while holding the headset. There was a noticeable pop/clunk but it wasnt coming from the front. After some investigation it was noted that it was actually coming from the bushings on the shock and that the play in those bushings was pretty similar to that of a loose headset. Just food for thought for any one else going through this as it could be a potential culprit too.

  51. #51
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    i had this problem with my cane creek 40 and tried just about everything to get the headset to stop knocking. TURNS OUT the my LBS put the crown race on upside down when they moved it from my old fork to the new one. Took it to another LBS who found the problem, flipped over the crown race and now everything is nice and snug.. hope this helps someone out there!

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