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  1. #1
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    Ibis Ti Mojo over Silk Ti ???

    Just noticed that someone is selling their sweet ibis silk ti on ebay, but are keeping their ti mojo - does this make any sense. I thought the silk ti was the king of bikes. i did ask the guy and he said he prefers to go full rigid. i just dont get it. can anybody shed some light on this facination with full rigid or why even even this choice ..... espeically when i read about devoted bikers giving up on their hard tails as their backs give them problems - ive run across three even selling soft tails for this reason.

    b

  2. #2
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    It may sound unbelieveable to you, but people prefering full rigid do excist. I am one of them and I know many more.

    Nice steel bike works best for me. No hassle, nicer trail experience ...more joy.
    CU @ OWMTBC 2010

  3. #3
    Jackbooted Elitist Hipstr
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    I'd keep the Ti Mojo too

    I had a buddy with a ti Mojo and it was probably the sweetest bike I've ever seen. The tubeset was amazing, with lots of butting. Great riding frame.

    I had a Litespeed softail and never liked it. Lots of maintenance on the "shock" and it flexed a lot too. Not in the same league as the silk ti, but may share some of the same issues.
    Dirtbag since '89

  4. #4
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    Lots of well made ti hardtails actually have very compliant rides anyways, so why mess with the extra weight and complication of a soft tail?

  5. #5
    artistic...
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    i would keep them both. even if i prefer the rigid ride.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  6. #6
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    I ride full rigid and full sussy. I like them both the same.

    When I had a soft tail though, I didn't much care for the pogo feeling ride. That may be why.

    As stated, there's not a huge difference between the two...or I should say, not enough to justify having two bikes that ride pretty close to the same.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all the responses...

    I can understand the pogo effect, but for me the gurus say, along with John Castellano, the silk ti has no pogo effect when the shock is properly adjusted - theres a bunch of stuff on the web about this. Perhaps I am holding the Silk ti in too great esteem, but it it has that name for a reason.

    I guess I am somewhat responding to so many complaints I hear of people with back problmes from years of riding hard tails (which i pay attention to b/c im a doc) and which makes sense because of the position of your spine in biking. We can also proudly display the felsh wounds - but back problems - thats not a worthy deal. I considered myself a hardtail purist, but have decided to move to a soft tail for this reason.

    Any more thoughts on this issue are welcome.

    vaya con dios

    b

  8. #8
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    If people have back problems I think it is more likely their technique or their positioning on / fit of the bike that's to blame.

  9. #9
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    I totally understand...

    I have owned my ti mojo since 1995 / 6. I love it and still ride it 2 or 3 times a week. I have had other bikes and these include a Bow Ti full sus but at the end of the day my ti mojo is a do it all bike. I can commute on the road on it, take it off road in the middle of nowhere or on the man made trail and it will perform great in all situations. It climbs like a gazelle. I have had zero problems with the frame. It continues to outlast almost any parts I hang on it... and I hang the best you can buy on it. The only thing still the same since day one is the King headset and ibis ti stem. If I had to sell a bike this would be the last one I would sell.

  10. #10
    Too Much Fun
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    I'm familiar with that bike...

    Quote Originally Posted by shapirob
    Just noticed that someone is selling their sweet ibis silk ti on ebay, but are keeping their ti mojo - does this make any sense.
    I used to build at Ibis. I've also been riding a TiMojo for 8 years or so and IMHO its a beautiful riding, compliant bike. The tubeset was indeed way, way ahead of it's time.

    The SilkTi always struck me as a bit of a gimmick. If you want bouncy get a real bouncy bike. I dunno. I've always found most Ti hardtails plenty forgiving, but I guess if you have a bad back thats another thing entirely.
    - -benja- -

  11. #11
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    Well said

    "If you want bouncy get a real bouncy bike"

    I mostly ride full suspension now, have a couple of those, and have one really cool classic hardtail used for special occasions. I have no room for a soft tail.

  12. #12
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    You rigid guys are all defending a concept that is dying fast. Motorcycles did not have rear suspension before, either. I have an I.F. Deluxe with 2.3" tubeless tires and the Castellano Fango with 2.1" tubeles tires. The Fango is 6000 series aluminum with the same soft tail design as the Silk Ti, but only 1.25" travel. There is NO POGO, it tracks better, there is no rear end flex (I am 210 lbs. riding weight) and the suspension effect is far closer to my Santa Cruz Superlight than to the I.F. Deluxe. I owned a Rocky Mountain Vertex aluminum frame which hurt so badly I dumped it but quick, and I.F. is vastly better than that was. Castellano did it right. Don't generalize about something you don't know about. The flat plate read stay resist sideways flexing. Castellano is not Litespeed, or Moots, or anything else. It's no secret that Steve Potts welds the Silk Ti frame and BOUGHT ONE HIMSELF.
    WYATT

  13. #13
    Too Much Fun
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    Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by wyatt
    You rigid guys are all defending a concept that is dying fast.... Castellano did it right. Don't generalize about something you don't know about. The flat plate read stay resist sideways flexing. Castellano is not Litespeed, or Moots, or anything else. It's no secret that Steve Potts welds the Silk Ti frame and BOUGHT ONE HIMSELF.
    I don't really think anyone is really generalizing or evangelizing hardtails OVER the SilkTi/Fango/Castellano rear end. Just questioning what its about and wether its right for them maybe? More a question of preferences, needs, riding styles and budgets IMHO. Hell, some motorcyclists STILL prefer hardtails. It takes ALL kinds my friend!

    I've ridden ALL of these and BUILT some of them and they all have a time and a place and a rider thats right for them. Like you say times change. Even though our beloved S.Potts may love Ti now but there was time when he regarded it as some black art, voodoo type thing. Now he'd be one of the first people I'd go to for a new Ti ride. With or without a soft rear on it.

    Times change, people change. Thats what makes it interesting.
    - -benja- -

  14. #14
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    Motorcycles did not have rear suspension before, either

    Ah, but the nature of both the motive power and the usage of a motorcycle is entirely different to a bicycle. You seem to neglect that bicycles have been around (and evolving) since before the motorcycle was invented - it has headed down a different evolutionary path, and I find it difficult to believe they will converge.

    I've been wondering whether to sell my '98 Merlin XLM frame to buy a Silk Ti a friend is offering, but having ridden the pants off the XLM yesterday and today, I think I'm happy as I am. I met a couple and their son out on the trail - all fully sussed up. They were concerned they might not be able to ride a route without a full suspension bike - it amused me greatly - I've ridden the trail, and it's harder brother, many times on the XLM. I think people often kid themselves they need travel, or more of it than they have at present. I'm not denying it's necessary in some instances, but the theory that the hardtail is a dying breed is bunkum.

  15. #15
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    I'm not denying it's necessary in some instances, but the theory that the hardtail is a dying breed is bunkum.[/QUOTE]

    I'll recant that the hardtail is dying. There is just no argument that a HT is faster given all things equal, and given the best HT vs. the best ST. If we are discussing whether the Potts is fun and more than acceptable, the answer is yes of course. So much of comparison is "all things equal" except for the frame- parts, fit to the frame, etc. A lousy fit on a Silk Ti will lose to a great fit on the Potts, as the latter will be more efficient and have better control.

    My main point before was that the Castellano Fango (by extension also the Silk Ti) does everything the best hard tails do including my three previous Fat Chance HT's did, 2 Yo! Eddys and a Bro Eddy. It does all that my I.F. Deluxe does, plus TRACK and DESCEND much better and is easier on the body on longer rides. It also has the impact absorption much like my former Giant NRS, is more alike than different from my former Santa Cruz Superlight. My current Ventana X5 5"x5" travel FS has better absorption but, like, the Superlight is less efficient than a hardtail or CASTALLANO softail. However the X5 only lacks in that it is less efficient. It is only 2.5 pounds heavier I guess one is best to not generalize about soft tails until one has ridden several differnent ones. I have had multiple version of HT's and FS bikes, but only one ST, and it seems to have the best of each (rather than the accusation often thrown at it that it has none of either). And it comes at the weight and price of aluminum, plus the ultra-efficient climbing of Aluminum.My Rocky Mountain Vertex outlcimbed all the above including the 1991 Yo! Eddy which too was brutally stiff and with a rigid fork.

    I have a Silk Ti 29R on order. I bought the Fango first because I had reservations about soft tails and didn't want be negatively surprised for $3800.00. Given the Fango's level of performance, I am in for a big, but pleasant, surprise. If you like your hardtail, by all means, do not change it.
    WYATT

  16. #16
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    Silk ti vs. Ti mojo

    Replying to the original question, on ti-mojo vs. silk ti, I thought I might be able to contribute as I have put several thousand miles on each.

    My first comment on the two bikes is that the ti-mojo was built in the heyday of Ibis and that the silk ti was built by the ibis that did not fly. This trickles down into details of construction and construction quality. Corners have been cut on the silk-ti.
    For example, the silk ti has riveted water bottle bolt inserts (one of which has started to free-rotate) and is made from straight gauge ti, whereas the ti-mojo has welded water bottle bolt inserts and double-butted tubing. That said, the ti-mojo has very minimal mud clearance and tires will rub on as small as a 2.1 velociraptor. With the sand-paper like quartz-monzonite soil in the Butte, MT area, I was unfortunately able to wear a small hole in the chain-stay of the ti-mojo (easily fixed by DEAN). This will never happen on the silk-ti because of the wider tire clearance and the solid plate chainstays. Construction aesthetics, if these are most important, are superior on the ti-mojo.

    Ride-wise, without getting too much into my personal preferences on hard-tail vs. soft-tail, these two bikes are generally similar with subtle differences. Stiffness at the bb is remarkably similar, as well as steering precision. I find that the ti-mojo is more fun on short and fast rides on tight and technical single-track where precision moves and finesse are required. For the longer rides, the silk ti is able to soak up the smaller bumps that fatigue the body over time (bumpy grass, rocks, etc). The silk-ti feels like the ti-mojo if the latter could hover an inch above the ground. Because of this, the silk is my preferred ride.

    Maintenance wise, save for the rotating water bottle bolt insert on the silk-ti (truly obnoxious) and the hole in the chainstay of the ti-mojo, I have had no trouble with either. The silk ti suspension is very low maintenance and, having neglected maintenance other than the occasional squirt of grease, it still works admirably.

    Which one do I prefer? Now we are getting to personal preference. Having ridden 14 mountain bikes to the point of being un-sellable heaps of worn out gears and cracked frames, only three have survived. The first one was a Ritchey comp (repaired once), the second and third are the ti-mojo and silk-ti. Both are tough and reliable. However, because the silk has better tire clearance, is a touch faster, and feels like it is hovering, the silk is my preferred ride.

    Have a great day!
    Mike Borduin

  17. #17
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    If ever an old post should be resurrected this is one of them: quality and objective input!
    I had a Silk Ti. I had a Mojo hardtail. I've always wanted an Ibis Ti hardtail or road frame but theyr'e soooo much money. There's a disc ready ti on ebay now!

  18. #18
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    I own one of each, Ti mojo, silk-ti, Bow-ti , Ti road (double butted) and carbon Mojo ( if it ever gets here). The bow-ti ( my first Ibis) is great and a very unique ride, but once I built up the Ti mojo I was blown away by the quick technical handling yet compliant ride. If I was riding with the wife and dogs on an open trail, the bow-ti got the nod. riding with my bro or buddies, the Ti mojo went everytime.

    This was until I bought a used silkie frame and built it up.. The thing tracks like a demon, those washboard shutter bumps dissapeared on downhills combined with my Fox RLT fork. I literally passed buddies in the corners. No brake rise like the bow-ti, quick and agile like the Ti mojo. It IS my go to bike now and worth every penny of the 2K asking price on E-bay. I've sold several in the $1750 to $2K price range used plus Castalanno has replaceable shock parts.

    That being said, I just passd up a $1700 offer for my Ti mojo double butted frame. It's just too sweet as a 19lb SS to ride with the wife. They all have their qualities, but I have a feeling the carbon mojo will get the nod for my big rides in colorado and the rest will be family play bikes during front range rides. just my $.02 worth -=MIke

  19. #19
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    I sold my Silk Ti this week.

    And kept two steel hardtails. One w/ gears and one SS.

    I just didn't ride the Silk Ti enough. And a good friend needed a bike.

    So I sold him the Silk Ti.

    I did like it, though.

  20. #20
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    Silk-Ti setup problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mborduin
    Replying to the original question, on ti-mojo vs. silk ti, I thought I might be able to contribute as I have put several thousand miles on each.

    My first comment on the two bikes is that the ti-mojo was built in the heyday of Ibis and that the silk ti was built by the ibis that did not fly. This trickles down into details of construction and construction quality. Corners have been cut on the silk-ti.
    For example, the silk ti has riveted water bottle bolt inserts (one of which has started to free-rotate) and is made from straight gauge ti, whereas the ti-mojo has welded water bottle bolt inserts and double-butted tubing. That said, the ti-mojo has very minimal mud clearance and tires will rub on as small as a 2.1 velociraptor. With the sand-paper like quartz-monzonite soil in the Butte, MT area, I was unfortunately able to wear a small hole in the chain-stay of the ti-mojo (easily fixed by DEAN). This will never happen on the silk-ti because of the wider tire clearance and the solid plate chainstays. Construction aesthetics, if these are most important, are superior on the ti-mojo.

    Ride-wise, without getting too much into my personal preferences on hard-tail vs. soft-tail, these two bikes are generally similar with subtle differences. Stiffness at the bb is remarkably similar, as well as steering precision. I find that the ti-mojo is more fun on short and fast rides on tight and technical single-track where precision moves and finesse are required. For the longer rides, the silk ti is able to soak up the smaller bumps that fatigue the body over time (bumpy grass, rocks, etc). The silk-ti feels like the ti-mojo if the latter could hover an inch above the ground. Because of this, the silk is my preferred ride.

    Maintenance wise, save for the rotating water bottle bolt insert on the silk-ti (truly obnoxious) and the hole in the chainstay of the ti-mojo, I have had no trouble with either. The silk ti suspension is very low maintenance and, having neglected maintenance other than the occasional squirt of grease, it still works admirably.

    Which one do I prefer? Now we are getting to personal preference. Having ridden 14 mountain bikes to the point of being un-sellable heaps of worn out gears and cracked frames, only three have survived. The first one was a Ritchey comp (repaired once), the second and third are the ti-mojo and silk-ti. Both are tough and reliable. However, because the silk has better tire clearance, is a touch faster, and feels like it is hovering, the silk is my preferred ride.

    Have a great day!
    Mike Borduin
    Mike,

    Sounds like you might be a good candidate to address this question. I have what I believe is 2001 Silk-Ti that I purchased for cross country and races. Due to my AM bike being broken recently, I have taken the Silk-Ti on more technical rides and what I came to realize was that the Silk-Ti rides very erratic and skittish especially during descents. Maybe it's unfair to compare the bike to my Ventana El Salty for its quality of riding on technical trails but at the same time, maybe I don't have the proper set-up on it. Check out the current setup and maybe you can offer some advice/modifications that would improve the riding quality of the bike. Tks,

    RockShox SID Race
    1" rise handlebar with bar ends.
    2.1" tires
    Other components are mostly XTR stuff to keep the weight down.
    All components are installed properly and the instability is not mechanical related.

    -Eddie

  21. #21
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    Response to elee325

    Eddie-
    I apologize that I haven't responded more quickly to your post. I hope that by the time you read this that you and your Silk are dialed in together and it has not been put on the auction block. If not, I have provided a general brain-dump of five possibilities in the following paragraphs.

    I would have to say that your first instinct may be correct, that switching from the barcalounger 5-inches of plush El Salt to a full-on XC bike might take a little getting used to. Assuming that this is not the issue, my eye is first drawn to the SID, and for two reasons. First, now that the Silk is probably officially an "old-school" bike, it really needs an 80mm shock made in the early 00's (however you say that). Now typically (i.e. with the correct stem length, etc) if you are using a present day 100mm shock, it would tend to make the bike respond quite nicely on downhills, as you probably would have about a 69-degree head angle, and the problem would be in the climbing - not the descending. However, if this longer shock is combined with a short stem ("short" as per your fit - see below) and a riser bar, the bike may now "wheelbarrow" where the pilot is so far back that the wheel has little or no weight on it and is just turning side to side (instead of effectively steering). So suggestion 1, stick with the correct vintage shock with 80mm of travel.

    If this shock is of the correct vintage and travel, my next comment is that the SID of that era was known for its light weight, and not really renown for either rigidness or tracking ability. Also, I would imagine that you don't have a SID on the El Salt, so the lake of rigidity might be compounded. What to do? I would recommend trying a more rigid, correct vintage shock, perhaps by Fox or Marzocchi (for example, I am using an 80-mm Marzocchi Z.2 coil-oil shock). If you tighten up the front end, the rest will likely fall into line. Suggestion 2, get a shock that tracks well.

    My next comment(s) are on the size of stem/handlebar you are using, and maybe more importantly, the fit. I suspect that the current configuration of the bike just may not be matched up to your body type. Even after 20 years of riding, I check my fit and make slight tweaks every year because my body changes over time (and I have to say, it is not improving!). For example, with a stem that is too long for your body type, it would be very easy to get too far over the front. If you find that your typical crash on the bike involves yourself going straight over the bars (as opposed to off one side or another) this would be a red flag on the stem length. Other component sizes might not be ideal, either. You might use the "fit system" at wrenchscience.com (no I don't work there!) or another comparable website/lbs with a good knowledge of the general fitting requirements for a cross-country bike, and figure out what your bike needs to make it an extension of your body. Suggestion 3, check your fit.

    Next, possibly, the wheels. This bike should be very stable on downhills, but if it has flexy wheels (i.e. Spinergy's or 15-16 gauge spokes on super-light rims), a long-ish stem (>135 x 10deg.), it would probably feel skittish. This is especially critical in combination with the relatively flexible material (titanium) and of course the design of the bike, with a bit of controlled flex built it. If this is the case, the issue might be further compounded with body weight. If you are pushing 200 (like me) you might consider going to something like a nice, solid 32-spoke wheelset with DT revolution spokes and super solid hubs like XTR or Chris King. Furthermore, in general if your weight is in this department, you might take a good look at your bike and see if any corners have been cut in the rigidity department. For reference, as I mentioned before, I weight 200#, the bike is right around 25#, and has held up admirably. Suggestion 4 - for ti bikes and/or bigger guys, solid wheels are good.

    Finally, the tires and tire pressure. We are really getting into the minutia here, but here we go. On the tires themselves, most riders don't pay attention to the thread count of a tire, but in my experience a higher thread count in a tire makes for a flexier tire - typically easier to pinch flat, and typically more flex side to side. Since your bike is skittish, you might try a low thread count tire such as the WTB line. Also, you might try playing around with your tire pressure. I am still running tubes, so personally I have found that for my body weight, keeping the pressure right around 45 psi is good. Anything more and the bike gets a little bouncy and a little more skittish; lower than this and the bike starts to bog down. If you listen to your bike, it will tell you where the pressure should be.

    Good luck with this project, I would be interested to hear what you find out, and perhaps other Silk owners would be to. If you figure out the magic bullet, please give us a post!

    Have a great day!
    Mike B.

  22. #22
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    I just got my New Silk ti 29er I had on order with JC. Its a custom fit with the silidng drop outs, welded by STeve Potts. This is the best riding bike I have owned. Fits like a glove and it has such a lively ti feel. I had a the orgianal 26 silk ti and the new 29er is much more complaint maybe the bigger wheels help, its feels like it has 3"'s of travel without all the monkey motion. I currently have it set up as a 5speed and the bike weights 22.14# and it flys. I using 100mm white fork. I really didnt notice how complaint it rides until I jumped on my hardtail and felt every rock and root I road over. The silk is working when you dont even realize it. I think the bike tracks better and handles better and hammers better. No unwanted flex or bob standing or sitting.
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  23. #23
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    Bridgestone vs Silk Ti

    Hi all,

    I've been enjoying my MB-1 for well over a decade and absolutely love the handling. I also enjoy my Mantra but have to say I'll never let loose of the Ishibashi.

    Lately I've been thinking about dropping some coin on a Silk Ti but I would hate to lose the 'Dancing Machine' feel of the Bridgestone Steel & geometry.

    Anyone have input? Has anyone ridden both enough to offer a good comparison?

    I'm a XO lover, "hiking with wheels" is how I would describe my riding style. Single track & I get along really well, (don't care 'bout high speed downhill, don't need no more scars or broken bones).

    Thanx!
    Scott

    (Hey there 'Major Tom'!)

  24. #24
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    Great Info

    Great post mborduin. I agree across the board.
    I've been riding a L Ti Mojo for 10 years now, and as long travel FS bikes have evolved all my neighborhood trails have gotten gnarlier and gnarlier. My honey and I have just adapted....ditched the Sid for an 80mm Marz Atom Z2 Race coil fork....better in EVERY way than the sid (except weight I guess), I've gone to a little heavier wheels (32 14ga db spokes), added a thudbuster seatpost, and 2.3 conti's, and we're still rockin on all the same trails the "All Mountain" guys ride. I'm sure I feel a little more "abused" after a couple hour jaunt than the guys w/ 5" of travel....but at least I don't feel like a big pu$$y!

    To Scott N Klein, I too had an early 90's MB-1, and I wish I still did....it was a sweet bike. don't remember the exact year, but it was the last year they did the lugged prestige frame...same year they introduced the XO-1...maybe 92. It wasn't suspension adjusted of course, but with the stock 72 deg head angle it carved like a fiend with a Rock Shox Mag21 SL on it. I went from that to a steel mojo with the same fork, and I found their handling and overall feel too be almost identical, same nice springy rear end, but with a little more front triangle rigidity on the Mojo thanks to the oversized tubing. The Ti Mojo came along, and it has more schwing to the front end...would be very similar to the MB-1 I think, except for the fact that I ditched the original SID with the 63mm travel the TI Mojo was designed around, and went to 80mm, which slowed things down a bit... that took a while to get used to as I'd always liked super quick steerers, but it really works better for the steeper & rockier trails I'm riding these days.... Sorry I can't comment on a MB-1 vs Silk Ti, but I bet you'll find what you're looking for in a Silk Ti. All of the aforementioned bikes were designed by pretty like minded old school bike geeks (or gods?) with similar design aesthetics, and riding the same Nor Cal trails. Grant and Scot both know how to make a bike want to dance with you all day and all night!
    Don't forget the Ti mojo, thudbuster option...when you want a full on hardtail just put a rigid post in, when you want a softtail, you've got a couple inches of very plush give at the tail bone. They're ugly as hell, but they do what they're intended to do.
    My 2 cents.

  25. #25
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    Yes - it does smell like bacon

    Excellent post, '...Bacon',

    I do now ride a Tamer post, though I'm sure the Thudbuster works as well as it appears to, and probably better than a Tamer, still, you're right on the money with the "ugly" remark, and I have the Tamer (finally) adjusted correctly, which took quite a lot of 'trail & error' to achieve.

    Looking at a youtube video of (god) Castellano, I like what I see regarding the flat chainstays and was figuring the 1.75" of cush in the design added to the 1/2" or so of my Ritchey Zmax WCS 2.35s (which I stocked up on when I caught wind of their going OOP) plus the 1/2" of my Ti saddle plus the 1.5" of the Tamer adds up to around 4" of semi-sus!

    I could live with that and love it if it still offered the snappy, intuitive dream-ride of the 'Stone.

    I also caught a Moots 'Smoothie' video which looks interesting, but I fear it is also an OOP design so that may be a 'moot' point.

    The YBB would be in the running but it looks to have an overall shorter geometry, which scares me, plus I sure like that FEA designed flat bar chainstay on the Ibis, ...and it's made locally!

    OK, I guess it's time to add another bike to my tiny collection, a Soft-tail between the hard-tail 'Stone & sweet-high-spot-on Mantra, making 4, as the real FS kudos has to go to my Ironhorse Azure, cush cush - mush mush, and all that...

    ...You've basically helped me to solidify what I think I've known all along, and I imagine I'll end up on the Ibis as much as the other three combined.

    - Scott

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