Ibis Mojo vs. Moots Cinco
Ultimate All Mountain battle. I am 5'10", 140 and am a very technically sound and aggressive rider who needs an all mountain bike. Cost is not prohibitive.
This could come down to a titanium vs. carbon battle, but I really need some rider input on these two bikes. Thanks.
carbon has no place in the real world of mtb. it's not much lighter when made strong enough, and one little scratch and the whole part is trashed.
i'm sure some love their carbon, let them ride it and get the moots. gawd i want a moots...
what would rainbow unicorn do?
Titus Motolite EXOGRID....
It's got everything you're looking at - Ti/Carbon, 4 or 5 inches of All Mtn goodness and it's full custom w/ only a 4 week turnaround time or so. besides those EXOGRID tubes just look flat out gorgeous w/ the cut outs etc....
You really should take a hard look at it especially if you're looking at the Cinco b/c w/ EXO you really do get the best of both worlds - durability of Ti w/ the ride quality of carbon that and it's actually stiffer/lighter than a straight up Ti tube, besides you get a true four bar Horst link rear end not the faux bar ventana rear end.
locked - time out
Get the Mojo. Then let us know if it cracked in 2 on your 1st real good crash. I'l bet it holds up pretty good. Kinda sux to have to wonder about that sort of thing. I don't worry about metal as much.
Mojo ride reports
Originally Posted by freeskisquaw
I commented more in your What Bike to Buy post.
you might want to check out the carbon trance that's coming out from Giant. They make some of the best carbon frames in the world, they are, so far as I know, the only company to source their own carbon and do EVERYTHING in house from threads to lay up. They also have a super strong resin composite to bond the frames on top of wrapping them as well. Lot's of other bike makers have their carbon frames/components made by Giant such as Scott bikes and FSA carbon components. Cool stuff...
While Giant does indeed do very nice carbon work they do not fabricate Scott carbon frames. Topkey does the road and hardtail mountain frames and I believe TenTech does the Full Suspension carbon. Both factories are out of China.
Originally Posted by woogie11
Last edited by Rivet; 08-26-2006 at 10:55 PM.
"Do not touch the trim"
Ultimate is a big concept.
You sound eager to spend large $$$ on a bike, and have the ultimate AM bike. That's going to be a tough one. Ti or Carbon are not some sorta magic materials, ultimately the bike is just a sum of it's parts. And in a 5-6" travel burly AM bike, the frame material is going to matter even less regarding ride quality (given all other parts, set up and fit being equal). You just could be setting yourself up for a dissapointing purchase. Certainly see what pro riders are using in all the mags, videos, read tons of reviews. Certainly get social at your local trail system to see what folks are riding in your neck of the wood. AM is a drastically expanding and growing realm for bikes and components, it'd be a shame to miss the boat because you gotta have a wonder material.
Originally Posted by freeskisquaw
That being said, put a Scott Ransom on your list if you are considering the Ibis. If 5" is good, 6" just might be better.
What are you riding now?
-Mitch mbaghdoi at hotmail.com
Hey Rivet, not trying to have this be a case of "I told you so" but...
"Thanks for your email. We work exclusively with a top carbon manufacturer in
Taiwan. Please let us know if you have further questions.
208 622 1064"
I thought that might interest you. I was pretty sure my source was correct about Giant building Scott's carbon bikes, but just to check I sent them an email. At any rate we're both right, Giant builds really good carbon bikes for everybody.
Actually Topkey and Ten Tech are headquartered out of Taiwan but with manufacturing in China.
Originally Posted by woogie11
From Bicycle Retailer:
Southern China is home to two other major factories: Topkey, in Xiamen, and Ten Tech Composites, also in Dongguan, known for the Ransom mountain bike frame it makes for Scott
Guido Trentin's Saunier Duval-Prodir Scott CR1 Team Issue
The Saunier Duval team was launched recently in Milan and we took the opportunity to get a look one of the bikes issued to new team member Guido Trentin.
A new arrival from Cofidis, climber Trentin will be crucial edition to the squad to support Gibo Simoni in his bid for a third Giro d'Italia win this coming May. Trentin's team bike is made in Taiwan with Scott's proprietary Ten-Tech Composite, and Scott claims a weight of 880 grams for the CR1 Team Issue frame without fork.
Trentin's Saunier CR1 is equipped with the Campagnolo Record 10 group, with liberal use of carbon fiber throughout, and runs on Fulcrum wheels. The wheels on Trentin's bike look to be a variant of Fulcrum's new Racing Light model with carbon fiber rims and roll on Continental rubber. Other key elements of the bike spec are Ritchey WCS Road carbon handlebars & new 4 Axis forged alloy stem. And atop each Ritchey WCS Road seatpost sits a saddle by premier Italian saddle maker Selle Italia.
Forkwise, the CR1 Team Issue has a carbon fiber version with 1 1/8in carbon fiber steerer in an integrated headset and the Scott CR1 frame is available in six different sloping sizes from XS to XXL.
EDIT: It turns out Ten Tech does all Scott composite bikes now, not Top Key. It's a matter of semantics but Giant proper doesn't even manufacture Giant composite bikes, their composites side split off and became c-tech and it appears they do very little other than Giant stuff although they will be producing Colnago's soon.
More interesting info.
Carbon fibre shortage could impact on high-end bike sales
How does the building of the Airbus 380 and the rapid spread of upland wind-farms impact on the bicycle trade? A shortage of carbon-fibre, that's how. BikeBiz.com gets fibrous with the former rocket scientist who now part-owns the Taiwanese composites factory which makes frames for Giant and Colnago.
China and Taiwan don't always see eye to eye. Both countries have missiles trained on each other. Chinese politicians recently voted to attack should Taiwan ever declare its independence from the mainland.
Dr. Kuan Chun Weng used to work at the pointy end of this potential flashpoint. Armed with a PhD in composites technology he was part of Taiwan's missile making programme.
"Missiles are easy to make from composites. They're long, straight tubes," said Dr. Weng.
They're also built to self-destruct and have not been designed to ascend and descend Alpine cols piloted by pro bike riders.
Moving from missiles to bicycles was therefore quite a career change for Dr. Weng, and a more taxing one. The stresses and strains a pro rider puts into a road frame means the job the carbon fibre is given to do is a multi-tasking one. Sprinters want lateral stiffness, col climbers torsional stiffness.
It's this difficult balancing act that keeps Weng on his toes. He's a composites guru: he even makes his own resins.
He owns 15 percent of the Composite Technology Corporation of Taichung, Taiwan. Giant owns 78 percent, guaranteeing its supply of carbon fibre road and MTB frames. C-Tech was created in 2000. It was formerly part of Giant but split from the parent company when Dr. Weng came on board.
Giant has been making 'Giant Composite Technology' frames (CGT) since 1985.
C-Tech employs 200 workers, 22 of them in the R&D department in Taipei.
Ninety percent of C-Tech's production is bagged by Giant. Colnago's non-Italian mid-range carbon frames will be made by C-Tech, with the first production run planned for late July, early August.
However, there's a global shortage of carbon fibre, with composites factories all over the world having to cope with rationing of the fibres that go into making carbon fibre. This is due to the expansion of the Chinese economy, the building of the Airbus A380 and Boeing's 7E7 Dreamliner, top-secret US air force projects, and the proliferation of windfarms across Europe. Every windfarm blade of 50m or more is made of carbon fibre. Shorter blades can make do with cheaper, heavier glass fibre.
Instead of some pauper industries - such as the bike industry - being denied access to the raw materials, the main Japanese suppliers of the specialist Polyacrylonitrile (PAN) fibres have restricted supply across the board.
According to Toray Industries of Japan, the demand for PAN-based carbon fibre for 2004 was estimated to be about 22,000 tons and the demand is forecast to grow at an annual rate of more than 10 percent in the future and is expected to exceed 30 000 tons in 2007.
In a statement issued in January, Mitsubishi Rayon of Tokyo, another of the world's leading suppliers of carbon fibres, said:
"The carbon fiber market has been growing in the sports/recreational applications and space and aviation applications as well as in a range of other industrial sectors. This growth has resulted in a steady increase in demand. Now there is concern about imbalance between demand and supply. On the verge of expanded applications for pressure vessels and wind power generation, with the emergence of a new automobile-related market, carbon fiber manufacturers are urged to establish their production systems to ensure future stable supply."
Dr Weng told BikeBiz.com that this 'future stable supply' did not materialise and that from April this year, shortages started to bite. He believes the rationing will last through to June and perhaps beyond.
Price rises inevitably follow any materials shortages and Dr Weng believes carbon fibre bicycle frames (and tennis rackets, golf shafts, fishing rods and other carbon fibre products) will start to cost more later this year as suppliers pass on some of the extra costs to consumers.
Dr Weng said the price hike will last for up to two years, limiting the mass market potential for carbon fibre products in the bicycle industry.
The first consequences of the forthcoming price hike can already be seen, claimed Dr Weng. He said his R&D team have come across Asian bicycle components made from cheaper glass fibre, 'wrapped' in carbon fibre. Last year's trend was for carbon fibre sheathing over aluminium cores, a shady practice but one that's easily proved to be taking place (so long as you can bear cutting into your 'carbon' handlebars, that is). However, glass fibre cores can be dyed to look indistinguishable from the carbon fibre outers and it needs specialist testing to spot the duds.
Dr Weng said consumers should be made aware that carbon fibre bikes will not be coming down in price any time soon and that cheap-as-chips carbon parts and frames may not be all they seem.
And genuine carbon parts may soon be in short supply. One UK distributor of high-end kit told BikeBiz.com:
Last edited by Rivet; 08-30-2006 at 01:18 AM.
"Do not touch the trim"