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  1. #1
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    Ibis Mojo Review by MTBTrailReview.com

    Full Ibis Mojo Review

    I was careful not to read anything before riding the bike and doing the review.


  2. #2
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    I am also interested in getting as much feedback as possible on the review and the site in general. Thanks for the help.

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    imho, I had fun reading

    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    I am also interested in getting as much feedback as possible on the review and the site in general. Thanks for the help.
    Pretty good review on par with mbaction. Read some of Derby's reviews and some guys here for extremely good technical detail.
    Lot's of times it's over peoples heads but for hard core mountain bike geeks it's really good. (Hard to do both in one review, maybe a read on section.)
    Maybe mention that Darren does Mojo specific tuning at push. Don't know whether the part about not really a downhill bike is relevant anymore since the Lopes era. (good that you mentioned him). "Carbon does not bend…it shreds." Not really, but most mtb bikes are alum now, never really seen one bend much instead of breaking at failure point.
    Where did you test in North Ga? Probably the best areas to test Moj up there would include pinhoti at dalton (time trial course) and Rich Mountain. Most areas up there you usually don't need a long travel bike for. You might mention where purchased if local to help out those guys. (hard business) Might mention some differences in the 2 different Moj models avail now.
    Also, please don't make fun of learning disabled children, that really is retarded.
    That's all I got, remember, you ask.
    Last edited by ghawk; 03-31-2008 at 03:38 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    Rich would be the perfect test course for this bike. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get my hands on it until the weekend after we rode up there.

    This actually isn't my bike, I wish it was, but I do know that Darren knew the Pike and the RP23 were for the Mojo, so it must have gotten the Mojo specific.

    I should probably go back and modify the shreds comment a little bit. I was more referring to dent type situations. But I do agree with you on the cracking at the failure point on aluminum.

    Good idea on mentioning the SL.

  5. #5
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    I liked the review a lot, very good to follow and informative, especially with the specifics on testing environment, and the comments about flex (because a lot of people might wonder about your take on it). Btw, which software were you using for the profiles you put in at th beginning?

    Cheers
    Jever

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    Quote Originally Posted by jever98
    I liked the review a lot, very good to follow and informative, especially with the specifics on testing environment, and the comments about flex (because a lot of people might wonder about your take on it). Btw, which software were you using for the profiles you put in at th beginning?

    Cheers
    Jever
    Thanks...Garmin 305 and Motionbased.com

    I figured where it was tested is just as important as the review itself.

  7. #7
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    Great review! It pretty much matches my experience riding the Mojo. Amazing climbing, point it up and ride ove just about anything, same downhill, and it rails corners with a good fork like the Pike. I’ve got mine all coil suspended and PUSH tuned, will be putting a PUSH'd Pike on as soon as I get some axle adaptors. Under my 200 lbs, the PUSH’d Fox 32/140 Vanilla RLC feels fine until it gets very rocky and then it is kind of hard to feel as confident in what direction the fork will take me. I’m really looking forward to getting back on a 20mm axle fork and one tuned by PUSH.

    A couple of nit picks. The carbon finish can be repaired rather easily if scratched with clear paint even fingernail polish. And if the scratch is deep into the weave an experienced CF repair person such as Craig Calfe in Santa Cruz, CA can laminate layers and refinish so you’d never know it was damaged. And at the worse if you do manage to break the Mojo which seems to be very rare, Ibis besides having a 3 year manufacturing warrantee, has a very reasonable crash replacement service. Ibis customer service is second to none!

    The other nit is the frame is designed for the 36mm forks up to 160mm travel. The Mojo of course fits and is usually sold with a lighter weight more XC/Enduro and AM 32mm fork. Many riders have set them up with a 36/160mm adjustable travel Talas or Lyric for extreme riding conditions way before Brian Lopes did it. And no you don’t need to be as good as BL to ride yours this way! You just need to do rides where such a fork for more pedal clearance and slacker steering and bigger landings is worth the extra weight. Riders haven’t found the limits of the Mojo yet.

    Nice of you to report a reality check on all the flex BS a very few riders with apparently limited full suspension experience have posted. As a Ventana rider you know what a low flexing ride feel is, and the Mojo delivers excellent feel with the highest traction grip when riding.

    Good to hear you had a good race with zero time to tweak and tune the Mojo before starting. It is the most balanced handling and easiest climbing and descending trial bike ride of the dozens I’ve tested and previously owned.

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    Great review. What's so good about it is that it is very objective, very concise and well thought out.

    What I am most surprised about (and I imagine others would as well) is your comments about the flex. I knew you rode a Ventana before I read the post....didn't know it was a Tmoto though (goodness that thing is a beast! ). I would have bet my Mojo that you would have said that the rear was flexy. You're dead on when you said "The only reason I can see people even saying that is by having that thought in your head before you even rode the bike. Sometimes they just have to make their opinion true I guess, but if you were thinking about not buying this frame because of the flex comments…forget about it and pick one up."

    Question: Did the bike have the prototype PUSH links? Doesn't seem so from the pix but just wondering since your thoughts on the flex are completely unexpected. No one has ever said that Ventana's are flexy....they'd have to be out of their minds to say such a thing, but it is a very common claim for the Mojo.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    Great review. What's so good about it is that it is very objective, very concise and well thought out.

    What I am most surprised about (and I imagine others would as well) is your comments about the flex. I knew you rode a Ventana before I read the post....didn't know it was a Tmoto though (goodness that thing is a beast! ). I would have bet my Mojo that you would have said that the rear was flexy. You're dead on when you said "The only reason I can see people even saying that is by having that thought in your head before you even rode the bike. Sometimes they just have to make their opinion true I guess, but if you were thinking about not buying this frame because of the flex comments…forget about it and pick one up."

    Question: Did the bike have the prototype PUSH links? Doesn't seem so from the pix but just wondering since your thoughts on the flex are completely unexpected. No one has ever said that Ventana's are flexy....they'd have to be out of their minds to say such a thing, but it is a very common claim for the Mojo.
    No Push links...yet. There are some more parts from Push on the way for this bike...they just aren't here yet. I figured the best way to review the DW-Link was to have the stock links with a great shock. From my experience on the bike, I think I was right. Now, there will be a follow-up review later when it is completely finished off. I'll just have to go steal it from it's owner again!

    You are right about the Ventana...there is no flex. That this is solid as a rock, and like I said in the article...I tried to get it to feel like the claims...and couldn't.

    I didn't know that it could take a 160mm fork! hmmm...maybe I'll have to throw the Lyrik on and see what happens.

    Thanks for the feedback again. To be completely honest...this was my first full review in type. I have talked about bikes and ridden all kind of different rides over the years...but this is my first review actually written down. The feedback is really helping a lot.

  10. #10
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    I forgot to add...On some of the comments above that you don't agree with me on...like the carbon...post your thoughts in the comments section of the blog.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    I forgot to add...On some of the comments above that you don't agree with me on...like the carbon...post your thoughts in the comments section of the blog.
    Done

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    Done
    Perfect...you should see it posted now!

  13. #13
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    awesome review, Robb!

    one detail you wrote about sending your fork to CA...push is in CO ....

  14. #14
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    From one of those who likes to keep tabs on interesting bikes ... Nice write-up! There are days when a mojo sounds appealing, and, after reading your review, this is one of those days. Your feedback on the frames stiffness is esp. helpful given that your ride is a Terremoto. Interesting.

    Also good to hear the positive feedback on the Pushed Pike. I have both a RP23 and Pike at Push for some loving right now. I can't wait.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    one detail you wrote about sending your fork to CA...push is in CO ....
    Thanks for the edit...I feel stupid now...I knew that and didn't catch it...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Thanks for the edit...I feel stupid now...I knew that and didn't catch it...
    no worries..... if you keep writing such good material, I'll happily proofread

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    I like how you do your website theme, the opacity of the navigation is interesting, care to PM me on how you do it and do you create the website from ground zero or you use some service for the comments? (Thanks by the way). And great review.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelhot
    I like how you do your website theme, the opacity of the navigation is interesting, care to PM me on how you do it and do you create the website from ground zero or you use some service for the comments? (Thanks by the way). And great review.
    I'll send you an email with some info. Thanks for the comment you put up there too, you should see it now.

  19. #19
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    Can someone post a picture of their Mojo at 160mm? This has really sparked my interest.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Can someone post a picture of their Mojo at 160mm? This has really sparked my interest.
    Try this thread to start with!

    New Ibis bikes

    Bob Austin's steed!

    "My Ibis in size large weighs 28.8 lbs with full XT kit, ti bolt kit, Short 70mm 20 degree stem by Blackspire and Carbon fibre downhill Easton bar, XTR pedels, ti rail WTB seat and 2.35 Nevegals."
    ____________________
    Ibis Tranny 2009
    Ibis Mojo 2008
    Litespeed Pisgar 2004
    Pinnarello Dogma FP2006

  21. #21
    Mojo0115
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    Here is my mojo with a coil Lyrik up front - i love it!

    IMG_2353.JPG

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    Wow, your Mojo looks like its going to be getting some air often. Is it true what I just said?
    And what coil shock did you put there, can't see it properly.
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  23. #23
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    For reference...this is my regular ride...



    Those Mojo's look great...I did actually find something wrong with the bike though...I'll eventually have to give it back to it's owner...

    I got another 12 miles on it today.

  24. #24
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    Wow, is that a CaneCreek DoubleBarrel shock? Sweet, damn I wish to ride it some day (Its performance sounds pretty darn good, costs a fortune though). How does it improve your daily trail riding?
    07 Giant Anthem 2 (Int'l Edition) | omartan.co.cc
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelhot
    Wow, is that a CaneCreek DoubleBarrel shock? Sweet, damn I wish to ride it some day (Its performance sounds pretty darn good, costs a fortune though). How does it improve your daily trail riding?
    It's a CCDB...there is no other shock on the market as far as I am concerned. It is the best by a mile and then some. The only air shock that is even ridable after being on one is a Push'd RP23 and there aren't any other coil shocks that even come close.

    Every penny was the best money I have ever spent.

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    It's a CCDB...there is no other shock on the market as far as I am concerned. It is the best by a mile and then some. The only air shock that is even ridable after being on one is a Push'd RP23 and there aren't any other coil shocks that even come close.

    Every penny was the best money I have ever spent.
    Sweet, I hear they custom tuned the shock for the frame, is it true?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Here is my mojo with a coil Lyrik up front - i love it!
    zzsean your Mojo just looks so right with an adjustable height coil 36 fork and ti coil shock with adjustable seat post.


  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    zzsean your Mojo just looks so right with an adjustable height coil 36 fork and ti coil shock with adjustable seat post.

    I actually think that it is now perfect. I guess I could put 08 versions of things on it, but other than that I think I have exactly the components on it that are perfect for me!

  29. #29
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    to each their own, i also own a scott cr1 road bike (one of the most stiff bikes proven scientifically) and i know flex when i feel it, and it is not so much in the rear end as the seat tube to top tube area!
    ride and figure it out yourself...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook_63@yahoo.com
    to each their own, i also own a scott cr1 road bike (one of the most stiff bikes proven scientifically) and i know flex when i feel it, and it is not so much in the rear end as the seat tube to top tube area!
    ride and figure it out yourself...
    The flex issue (or non-issue as I claim) is a pet peeve of mine. My Ibis brand light weight aluminum stem and handlebars are too flexy to determine if the frame is flexing much with my Thompson and now much flexier AMP adjustable seatpost. I know my Fox 140 fork is the most noticeable flexiest part of my Mojo and it will be replaced soon with a Pike having a 20mm axle to better match the rest of the bike's superb handling feel.

    I've flex tested using the good-old hold the bike by a handlebar and push against the center of the crank (BB) method, and I notice no more flex than most mountain bikes and less flex than many. The top of rear wheel side flex test against the seat shows an average amount of full suspension mountain bike flex, and there are a few brands with less flex primarily a few of the so-called "faux-bar" type monopivot with linked shock, some other full suspensions have more flex. In this rear wheel test the Mojo flexes close to the same as Horst links I’ve tested this flex from Turner, Intense, or Titus.

    For rocky and gravelly dirt trail use I claim that some flex is desirable for best speed, cornering traction and feedback. For high traction rock only and pavement use less flex provides more feedback and springy side flex becomes noticeable and can be disturbing to feel.

    I think the Mojo as the introductory new generation Ibis mountain bike was designed for the widest range of use to gain the widest customer market possible. The pavement and pure rock condition uses are a rather small section of all popular uses. And other designs might be superior in some ways in those conditions.

  31. #31
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    Flex

    I think that flex is a legitimate issue to be had with the Mojo.

    Speaking personally, I absolutely do feel the tail end bending/oscillating when side loaded during cornering.

    I don't think there's a dramatic impact on the bike's actual performance, but it really bugs me. The rear end feels loose when I want it to feel tight.

    Derby, you may feel the same once you've switched over to a through-axle fork with a short, stout stem and wide, stiff bars.

    If I were to make two changes to the Mojo's design, they would be replacement of the upper "plate" linkages with a monolithic block and full triangulation of the swingarm (as opposed to non-drive side triangulation only). I noticed that Pivot cycles went this route, and while I find their bikes aesthetically displeasing I admire their ingenuity.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Thanks for the edit...I feel stupid now...I knew that and didn't catch it...
    Another small edit for you is you said "dampening" in your review. You should have said damping as dampening is the act of making something slightly wet.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irrenarzt
    Another small edit for you is you said "dampening" in your review. You should have said damping as dampening is the act of making something slightly wet.
    Thanks...fixed.

  34. #34
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    No sweat, glad to help out.

  35. #35
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    On deck is the CCDB review...that one is going to take me even longer to get together...

    And Count Zero...I didn't feel the flex that you are describing at all, and I am not easy on equipment by any definition of the word. I prefer drops to flat over ones with transitions for some crazy reason and the Ibis at 28-29 lbs is the lightest bike I have ridden in months, but I guess everyone is an expert these days...

  36. #36
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    Hey, I didn't say I am an expert

    Hey, I didn't claim that I am an expert. I have tested frames and components for another manufacturer, but in the end I'm just a guy with an opinion.

    <STRIKE>I did however state my opinion respectfully.</STRIKE>

    <STRIKE>Thanks for the backhanded insult though.</STRIKE>

    As to your comment about drops: Frankly, I have no problem with the Mojo's behavior on drops. Given that those forces are driven straight down across the frame's vertical plane, they have no relation to my perception of twisting under side loads.

    - Tom O (Mojo owner)
    Last edited by Count Zero; 04-02-2008 at 03:09 PM.

  37. #37
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    I'm sorry...bad wording on my part....I lump myself into that category as much as anyone else...so don't take it personally.

    I only mentioned the drops to explain which end of the spectrum I am coming from. There are a lot of guys with opinions on things that haven't actually pushed it to the limit enough to notice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    Hey, I didn't claim that I am an expert. I have tested frames and components for another manufacturer, but in the end I'm just a guy with an opinion.

    I did however state my opinion respectfully.

    Thanks for the backhanded insult though...

    As to your comment about drops: Frankly, I have no problem with the Mojo's behavior on drops. Given that those forces are driven straight down across the frame's vertical plane, they have no relation to my perception of twisting under side loads.

    - Tom O (Mojo owner)

  38. #38
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    Ah, apology accepted

    Apology accepted, friend. This stupid interweb is good for some things, bad for others. It's hard to catch the nuances of a conversation. No hard feelings.

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    Was this bike all stock or did it have some extra PUSH stuff/links on it besides PUSH tuning?

    I found the rear end to track not near as well as my Salty or Spot or X-5. However, if Darren and you find that is not the case, I'll have to give the Mojo another chance and find one to take for a spin- one that is not a shop demo. The ones I tried were stock with QR Fox forks and stock shocks. I'm running my current bike with a Pike and CK heavy duty rear hub with Funbolts.

    Well written review!

  40. #40
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    Push'd Pike
    Push'd RP23
    Stock Links
    10mm bolt thru Industry Nine rear hub on Stan's Flow

    Now that I think about it more...that 10mm I9 might have increased the stiffness of the rear end a lot.

  41. #41
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    Thanks man. I wil have to give it another chance.

  42. #42
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    I wonder if PUSH will make links like what they did for Turner bikes.
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    There is a good chance they will if they can improve something significantly over the stock links.

  44. #44
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    There is a good chance they will if they can improve something significantly over the stock links.
    Well I just hope Push makes a stiffer links for the Mojo and try not to change the leverage curve with what they did on the Turner links. Honestly I wonder if its possible to put a bridge connecting both links
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Push'd Pike
    Push'd RP23
    Stock Links
    10mm bolt thru Industry Nine rear hub on Stan's Flow

    Now that I think about it more...that 10mm I9 might have increased the stiffness of the rear end a lot.
    Whoa! 10mm through axle on the I9 Enduros? Can you describe this further? I take it that it works with standard dropouts?

    I happen to have a set of I9 Enduros, and sadly did not know there was a bolt-on option!

  46. #46
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    Well, I'll drop by tomorrow and offer up some ideas. I'm sure Darren never gets those but it doesn't hurt

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    Well, I'll drop by tomorrow and offer up some ideas. I'm sure Darren never gets those but it doesn't hurt
    Oh, you know the guys at PUSH? Sweet.
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    Well, I like to go say Hi every now and then but to them, it probably more like "oh damn, it's that guy again"

    Actually, I need a bit of help with my shock and I have the day off so why not head that way...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    There is a good chance they will if they can improve something significantly over the stock links.
    There's already prototypes made. Darren's been testing them. He has a Mojo and he posted a pix of the bike....a very keen eye (not mine) noticed that the links were different and asked Darren. He coyly avoided a definitive "yes" from what I remember, but it's pretty obvious that they were different. Don't know if he made them to be stiffer or as someone else mentioned here, to change leverage rates (doubtful. Don't even know if you could since the links are specifically designed to fall within the DW-link parameters).

  50. #50
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    Whoa! 10mm through axle on the I9 Enduros? Can you describe this further? I take it that it works with standard dropouts?

    I happen to have a set of I9 Enduros, and sadly did not know there was a bolt-on option!
    yep...9mm front and 10mm rear are the standard dropouts sizes..... IIRC aren't the I9 enduro hubs convertible? better get n touch with i9

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    yep...9mm front and 10mm rear are the standard dropouts sizes..... IIRC aren't the I9 enduro hubs convertible? better get n touch with i9
    You are correct.

    The fronts are convertible form qr, 20mm,25mm and the rear 10mm is to qr also. The 10mm works in standard dropouts and is a lot better than the qr system.

  52. #52
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    When the ride got really steep, to the point you couldn’t sit down and spin anymore, you could get up and really hammer out of the saddle without traction loss.
    I'm not trying to nit, just trying to understand this statement. My experience has been the complete opposite. Stand and hammer on semi-steep stuff, but when the hill gets REALLY steep, where traction is nil, and weight has to be kept forward to keep the front tire on the ground, seated mashing is the only option. What am I missing?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnmasher
    I'm not trying to nit, just trying to understand this statement. My experience has been the complete opposite. Stand and hammer on semi-steep stuff, but when the hill gets REALLY steep, where traction is nil, and weight has to be kept forward to keep the front tire on the ground, seated mashing is the only option. What am I missing?
    I have found that on some climbs...it is too steep to stay seated. You can't keep control of the bike and the front end comes off the ground. To even make it up the climb you have to get out of the saddle and get all of your weight over the bars to keep the front end tracking and on the ground. This only really happens in extremely steep grade situations. The only time I have actually ever run into it that bad was on the second ride during my test and a beginning section of Heartbreak ridge in NC. Staying seated is really not an option.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    Whoa! 10mm through axle on the I9 Enduros? Can you describe this further? I take it that it works with standard dropouts?

    I happen to have a set of I9 Enduros, and sadly did not know there was a bolt-on option!
    I use a Hadley 10mm axle in mine. The Hadley axle is nice because you only need one hex wrench to remove it because of the tab that fits in the drop-out on the opposite side. Fairly light weight too.



    Nothing to see here.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    I use a Hadley 10mm axle in mine. The Hadley axle is nice because you only need one hex wrench to remove it because of the tab that fits in the drop-out on the opposite side. Fairly light weight too.



    I posted a thread on the Wheels forum ( Which wheels? ) asking what other brands (besides Hope, I9) offer the ability to change both the F to a 20mm and the R to a 10mm. I guess Hadley is one of those. Know of anymore that do? I didn't get any responses on the wheels forum....woulda thunk someone on there would know

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    I posted a thread on the Wheels forum ( Which wheels? ) asking what other brands (besides Hope, I9) offer the ability to change both the F to a 20mm and the R to a 10mm. I guess Hadley is one of those. Know of anymore that do? I didn't get any responses on the wheels forum....woulda thunk someone on there would know

    He is using a Hadley axle in an Industry Nine hub...

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    I posted a thread on the Wheels forum ( Which wheels? ) asking what other brands (besides Hope, I9) offer the ability to change both the F to a 20mm and the R to a 10mm. I guess Hadley is one of those. Know of anymore that do? I didn't get any responses on the wheels forum....woulda thunk someone on there would know
    Those are the only 3 that I know of. CK makes you use that stupid Fun Bolt set-up.
    Nothing to see here.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Those are the only 3 that I know of. CK makes you use that stupid Fun Bolt set-up.
    RSutton/SSINGA: Thanks. I pretty much threw CK out as an option. Pricey and other wheels are pretty reliable nowadays. I've never heard anything bad about Hopes and they are the cheapest alternative.

    The I9's are straight spokes right? Don't know the correct terminology....sorry. Can you true those normally? Or are they like Mavics where you can't with "normal" tools?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    RSutton/SSINGA: Thanks. I pretty much threw CK out as an option. Pricey and other wheels are pretty reliable nowadays. I've never heard anything bad about Hopes and they are the cheapest alternative.

    The I9's are straight spokes right? Don't know the correct terminology....sorry. Can you true those normally? Or are they like Mavics where you can't with "normal" tools?
    I run Kings w/fun bolts on the Terremoto and actually like them. The next build is going to be 10mm TA I9 though. I have had I9's on other bikes and they are great wheels.

    The Industry Nine's are straight pull aluminum spokes that are adjusted with a wrench or Allen wrench...no special tools needed.

    Hope's are great hubs too.

  60. #60
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    Yep, I9's are straight spokes. A regular spoke tool works. There's a knob on one end that fits in where a nipple would go in the rim. I trued mine up yesterday, after letting the rear get pretty noodley. There are no nipples. They don't have the same amount of stiction when turning them. I had to chime in since I'm pretty stoked about how easy they were to true up.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnmasher
    I'm not trying to nit, just trying to understand this statement. My experience has been the complete opposite. Stand and hammer on semi-steep stuff, but when the hill gets REALLY steep, where traction is nil, and weight has to be kept forward to keep the front tire on the ground, seated mashing is the only option. What am I missing?
    maybe one man's really steep is not so steep for others in other areas? maybe different rider styles? For instance, I never "stand and hammer" unless I'm on my single speed or just feel like it. For me, with a 150mm fork, I do extreme steeps all the time (20-30 percent grades) and have never had the front of the Mojo come off the ground. I think the low center of gravity makes a big difference on the Mojo. I attack steeps forward on the seat, or if steeper then I'm on the tip with the saddle implanted in my backside, and finally (if needed) with my backside off and forward of the tip of the saddle. And always my upper body is bent forward.
    Last edited by noshortcuts; 04-04-2008 at 08:45 AM.

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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    maybe one man's really steep is not so steep for others in other areas? maybe different rider styles? For instance, I never "stand and hammer" unless I'm on my single speed or just feel like it. For me, with a 150mm fork, I do extreme steeps all the time (20-30 percent grades) and have never had the front of the Mojo come off the ground. I think the low center of gravity makes a big difference on the Mojo. I attack steeps forward on the seat, or if steeper then the tip of the saddle implanted in my backside, and finally (if needed) with my backside off and forward of the tip of the saddle. And always my upper body is bent forward.
    True, but you list your grades. Maybe zzsean refers to steep as being a 30+ gradient. I know that the steepest pitch I climb is about 37 degrees. It's a short grade (thank god) but I make it up half seated/half standing. Really, my butt is pointed right at the tip of the saddle....very very uncomfortable if you try to "sit". It's like having a rod pointed into your butt. Maybe that's why I make it....the constant prodding.

    For anything less than that, I never have to stand and don't really even move much from the "normal" riding position except that I get lower on the bike and "pull" the front towards me. I never have a problem with the front wandering. Granted a lot of these steeper climbs are not technical singletrack so I have much more room for error.

  63. #63
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    38.6% grades climbing
    48.6% grades descending

    That was the second ride in the test.

    Try to stay in the saddle on 38.6%...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    38.6% grades climbing
    48.6% grades descending

    That was the second ride in the test.

    Try to stay in the saddle on 38.6%...
    How does one know grades so precisely???

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    How does one know grades so precisely???
    Garmin 305

    That descent was hairy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Garmin 305

    That descent was hairy!
    Just to clarify since I do not own such fancy technology, but does the Garmin 305 measure the slope in degrees, or as a grade? I would hazard to guess it measures it as a grade ... in which case a 38.6 grade trail only translates to a 21.1 degree slope ... and that is not all that steep ... and therefore easier to hammer out of the saddle.

    Now if ddraewwg is not making the same mistake and the trail really has a 37 degree slope ... that is actually quite steep and his climbing technique makes a lot of sense ... definitely not "seated" in the true meaning of the word, but definitely not the type of slope you can hammer up on.

    As far as the Ibis Mojo review is concerned ... I found it rather amateurish and not much better than what is found on the MTBR review section. It had good structure, but the content and the way it was conveyed was lacking.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGiv'er
    Just to clarify since I do not own such fancy technology, but does the Garmin 305 measure the slope in degrees, or as a grade? I would hazard to guess it measures it as a grade ... in which case a 38.6 grade trail only translates to a 21.1 degree slope ... and that is not all that steep ... and therefore easier to hammer out of the saddle.

    Now if ddraewwg is not making the same mistake and the trail really has a 37 degree slope ... that is actually quite steep and his climbing technique makes a lot of sense ... definitely not "seated" in the true meaning of the word, but definitely not the type of slope you can hammer up on.

    As far as the Ibis Mojo review is concerned ... I found it rather amateurish and not much better than what is found on the MTBR review section. It had good structure, but the content and the way it was conveyed was lacking.
    I hope you don't think I mean hammering in terms of speed...more like having to use your body weight for pedaling assistance with your face towards the front tire moving at about 1 mph...




    As far as the review goes...it has to be easily read by a wide audience...I could have gotten into suspension curves and more engineering type detail...but the fact is that most of that goes over the majority of the readers head and can prove to be more confusing than useful.

    I was merely portraying the ride of the bike rather than the technical data behind it.

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    Based on this table, it seems the Garmin 305 measures the slope as a grade.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223

    I was merely portraying the ride of the bike rather than the technical data behind it.
    You did a good job of portraying the ride, but when saying that carbon is too fragile and the Mojo is more of XC bike than a AM bike it appears that you are expressing preconceived conclusions and not ride experience or technical data.

    My experience riding, and reading about others' experiences, leads me to conclude that the Mojo is more than equal in AM riding (including jumps and drops) than it is as XC bike. In other words, the Mojo is a very capable and fun XC bike and one of the best AM bikes available. Also, carbon is well used in the Mojo and does much good with no more risk than other materials.

    Now I'm off to figure out the difference between percent/degree(?) grade and percent/degree(?) slope.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    You did a good job of portraying the ride, but when saying that carbon is too fragile and the Mojo is more of XC bike than a AM bike it appears that you are expressing preconceived conclusions and not ride experience or technical data.

    My experience riding, and reading about others' experiences, leads me to conclude that the Mojo is more than equal in AM riding (including jumps and drops) than it is as XC bike. In other words, the Mojo is a very capable and fun XC bike and one of the best AM bikes available. Also, carbon is well used in the Mojo and does much good with no more risk than other materials.

    Now I'm off to figure out the difference between percent/degree(?) grade and percent/degree(?) slope.

    I will agree that the more I got comfortable on the bike...the more I was airing it out. The only thing that stills concerns me is falling in rock gardens with carbon. I took all the carbon off the Terremoto for that very reason. The Mojo is the best built carbon bike I have seen to date...I just trust aluminum on rocks a lot more.

    I should also note that I perceive my Terremoto as AM...so that may be some reason for me to think of the Ibis as more XC oriented.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGiv'er



    Based on this table, it seems the Garmin 305 measures the slope as a grade.
    actually..the 305 doesn't measure any grade..it just takes samples every n seconds and the graph and numbers are just a way to display the data (on the PC)

    (but this is just me getting picky ).

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    I run Kings w/fun bolts on the Terremoto and actually like them. The next build is going to be 10mm TA I9 though. I have had I9's on other bikes and they are great wheels.

    The Industry Nine's are straight pull aluminum spokes that are adjusted with a wrench or Allen wrench...no special tools needed.

    Hope's are great hubs too.
    Hmm.....ok. I'll probably go with Hopes/DT's if I want a "cheap" build but it's very easy to drool over the I9's. puuuuuurty.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    True, but you list your grades. Maybe zzsean refers to steep as being a 30+ gradient. I know that the steepest pitch I climb is about 37 degrees. It's a short grade (thank god) but I make it up half seated/half standing. Really, my butt is pointed right at the tip of the saddle....very very uncomfortable if you try to "sit". It's like having a rod pointed into your butt. Maybe that's why I make it....the constant prodding.

    For anything less than that, I never have to stand and don't really even move much from the "normal" riding position except that I get lower on the bike and "pull" the front towards me. I never have a problem with the front wandering. Granted a lot of these steeper climbs are not technical singletrack so I have much more room for error.
    Wierd... I responded to this earlier today, and now I don't see it.

    Anyway... Now that I see the OP listing degrees grade in fractions , I realize it wasn't helpful to list grades as I've never had an accurate way to measure. Also, I think I am looking at slope (?) (angle from horizontal in degrees) while others are measuring grade ? (per discussion below).

    Either way, no hammering, and I know that that "prodding" feeling of the saddle that can help one to the top. On such steeps, smooth pedaling and smooth transitions of body weight forward or back are needed to keep from losing the sweet spot (traction). And yes, technical climbing is more dynamic.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    I will agree that the more I got comfortable on the bike...the more I was airing it out. The only thing that stills concerns me is falling in rock gardens with carbon. I took all the carbon off the Terremoto for that very reason. The Mojo is the best built carbon bike I have seen to date...I just trust aluminum on rocks a lot more.

    I should also note that I perceive my Terremoto as AM...so that may be some reason for me to think of the Ibis as more XC oriented.
    Exactly. There is a reason for categories of course....and we can go on for days on end what definese an XC, AM, FR, DH, etc, etc. That horse has been beaten to death too many times to count.

    I think that you did a great job reviewing the ride from a general, overall perspective. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't think it's an AM bike". That is your perception. From anyone that reads reviews, you always have to keep in mind that it is one person's perspective. Too many people get upset when someone else tries to define their ride. Who gives a $hit?! If you like it.....that's all that matters.

    If your "standard" AM ride is a Terremoto, then I can absolutely understand why you feel that the Mojo is more XC in RELATION to the Tmoto.

    You did a good job of portraying the ride, but when saying that carbon is too fragile and the Mojo is more of XC bike than a AM bike it appears that you are expressing preconceived conclusions and not ride experience or technical data.

    My experience riding, and reading about others' experiences, leads me to conclude that the Mojo is more than equal in AM riding (including jumps and drops) than it is as XC bike. In other words, the Mojo is a very capable and fun XC bike and one of the best AM bikes available. Also, carbon is well used in the Mojo and does much good with no more risk than other materials.
    The problem is that your AM is not the same as everyone else's AM. So you have to read between the lines. It almost better if RS didn't mention the word "AM" and would just describe the type of trail that he rides and compared it to the ride quality of the Tmoto. That would give relative information and make better a better judgment call if this is/was the bike you're looking for. Because ideally, a review is used by people who are trying to discern whether or not a bike is for them and describing it in relative terms is the best way to do that IMO. Categories just get people defensive and takes away from what the reviewer is trying to accomplish.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGiv'er
    Now if ddraewwg is not making the same mistake and the trail really has a 37 degree slope ... that is actually quite steep and his climbing technique makes a lot of sense ... definitely not "seated" in the true meaning of the word, but definitely not the type of slope you can hammer up on.
    I got the 37 degree slope data from my friend's Garmin as well. I don't have one personally but was told it was a 37ish degree climb. I do this climb all the time...for regulars at Skeggs, it's the Sierra Morena section right before CM02 heading back to CM01....pretty obvious which section it is.

    I know it's more than 20% slope because it's obvious just from the naked eye. It's probably almost as steep as ascending a flt of stairs....especially the last 20 ft. or so. I've seen people climb out of the saddle on that pitch but they basically use the run in to keep momentum and just hammer the last section. I'm more of a sit and spin kinda guy

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    Exactly. There is a reason for categories of course....and we can go on for days on end what definese an XC, AM, FR, DH, etc, etc. That horse has been beaten to death too many times to count.

    I think that you did a great job reviewing the ride from a general, overall perspective. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't think it's an AM bike". That is your perception. From anyone that reads reviews, you always have to keep in mind that it is one person's perspective. Too many people get upset when someone else tries to define their ride. Who gives a $hit?! If you like it.....that's all that matters.

    If your "standard" AM ride is a Terremoto, then I can absolutely understand why you feel that the Mojo is more XC in RELATION to the Tmoto.



    The problem is that your AM is not the same as everyone else's AM. So you have to read between the lines. It almost better if RS didn't mention the word "AM" and would just describe the type of trail that he rides and compared it to the ride quality of the Tmoto. That would give relative information and make better a better judgment call if this is/was the bike you're looking for. Because ideally, a review is used by people who are trying to discern whether or not a bike is for them and describing it in relative terms is the best way to do that IMO. Categories just get people defensive and takes away from what the reviewer is trying to accomplish.

    I 100% agree. The terms are really just marketing catch phrases anyway and I should have left them out. What I was really trying to get across is how wide of a range the 5" travel bike market covers now. My personal opinion is that the Mojo falls somewhere pretty close to the middle. There are some extremely light 5" bikes and there are some really burly (Transition, Knolly) ones, so choosing the one that is right for you might prove to be pretty difficult. I include anything from 5" to 5.5" (140mm) to be in that group because once you hit 6", the geometry normally changes considerably.

    Technically everything is "AM"...you can get a dh bike up the mountain...it just takes more work!

    And by the way, thank you for all of the suggestions and criticisms...being my first review on this site, it does give me valuable information for the next.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    actually..the 305 doesn't measure any grade..it just takes samples every n seconds and the graph and numbers are just a way to display the data (on the PC)

    (but this is just me getting picky ).
    So the Garmin measures incremental differences in horizontal and vertical distances ... and what exactly does one use to measure grade? Then again, one truly doesn't measure grade, but rather calculate it ... I guess being as picky as you are that's what you must have meant. Anyways, that's great crisillo ... thanks for illuminating.

    (But this is just me being sarcastic.)

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGiv'er
    So the Garmin measures incremental differences in horizontal and vertical distances ... and what exactly does one use to measure grade? Then again, one truly doesn't measure grade, but rather calculate it ... I guess being as picky as you are that's what you must have meant. Anyways, that's great crisillo ... thanks for illuminating.

    (But this is just me being sarcastic.)


  79. #79
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    I did get the CCDB review completed for those that are interested...

    CCDB Review

  80. #80
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    First ride with Pike

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    I think that flex is a legitimate issue to be had with the Mojo.

    Speaking personally, I absolutely do feel the tail end bending/oscillating when side loaded during cornering.

    I don't think there's a dramatic impact on the bike's actual performance, but it really bugs me. The rear end feels loose when I want it to feel tight.

    Derby, you may feel the same once you've switched over to a through-axle fork with a short, stout stem and wide, stiff bars.

    If I were to make two changes to the Mojo's design, they would be replacement of the upper "plate" linkages with a monolithic block and full triangulation of the swingarm (as opposed to non-drive side triangulation only). I noticed that Pivot cycles went this route, and while I find their bikes aesthetically displeasing I admire their ingenuity.
    I just got back from my first ride with the PUSH’e Rockshox Pike fork. It gave an amazing difference from my PUSH’d Vanilla RLC 140 in steering precision and perceived stiffness of the whole frame and bike feel through the seat.

    This is my second fork with 20mm axle on the Mojo and I still just don’t notice any excessive rear end or frame flex while riding.

    I still have to take the time to better dial in damping which is very similar to the compliance as my previous Vanilla RLC 140. I ended my first ride with about one turn in from full open rebound, and compression wide open with open “floodgate” which I’ll have to learn about. Using the standard spring as delivered, I’ve got about the same 1 ¼ inch sag and total used travel as with the Vanilla on the same trail.

    The stiffness is immensely improved, more precise than my Nixon Elite w/ 20mm axle ever felt during my first year on the Mojo. With the Pike it feels more precise and quicker handling giving me far more confidence especially in very rocky sections. I adjusted the PUSH tuned shock, an ’02 Vanilla RC, to balance the ride handing difference in feel from the Fox fork by adding 1 click firmer rebound and eventually adding a half click in more compression damping after trying 1 full click.

    The Pike’s crown height is about 3 mm higher fully extended to “140mm” travel compared to the non-adjustable travel Vanilla 140. I didn’t change my stem height so I used the U-Turn and adjusted it down a full turn and a half to about the 135mm mark on the stansion for a comfortable climbing and tight trail handling feel and raised it up for a steeper fast downhill with my remote adjustable seat post lowered an inch. For less steep downhill leaving the fork at 135mm and lowering the seat an inch felt very tight and nimble handling. The U-Turn fork height and adjustable seat height combo will be really fun to learn about.

    The Pike coil is a half pound heavier than the Vanilla RLC coil fork but not at all noticeable while riding, only when picking up the bike the front end feels a little heavier. So my coil suspended AM built bike just punched a few grams over the 30 lb mark.

    I still don’t notice any rear end flex issue or center frame flex issue while riding. The center frame and whole bike feels much stiffer with this Pike fork on it. Flexing the top of my front wheel against the bars is now much less than the top of the rear wheel against the seat, while with the Vanilla fork there was no difference front to rear doing the same comparison.

    I’ve got upgrade-itis bad. Now I’m going to get a 10mm rear axle conversion for my Hadley rear hub, which rider reports say reduces rear end flex. So this should be a good test to see if I sense a significant handling improvement from reduced rear end flex.

  81. #81
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    Nice write up as usual Derby. As for the Hadley axle, does this item fit other hubsets? I've got Easton AM Havocs and would love a rear TA.

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    Any word if Ibis is considering rasing the BB height?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Any word if Ibis is considering raising the BB height?
    I hope not! I love the way it rides just the way it is. I hardly ever have pedal strikes throughout the variety of riding I do in Colorado and Eastern Utah.

  84. #84
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    Any word if Ibis is considering rasing the BB height?
    I understand that some place where BB height play a important role, but Im not sure what happen if Ibis were to change the BB height, will the bike ride the same? or not? I dont know
    07 Giant Anthem 2 (Int'l Edition) | omartan.co.cc
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irrenarzt
    Nice write up as usual Derby. As for the Hadley axle, does this item fit other hubsets? I've got Easton AM Havocs and would love a rear TA.
    Check with Easton. I imagine they have a tech support contact phone or email. The hub would need to be designed for the ability to do the conversion to 10mm axle. I'm sorry, I don't know.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    I hope not! I love the way it rides just the way it is. I hardly ever have pedal strikes throughout the variety of riding I do in Colorado and Eastern Utah.
    Sean, at 160mm travel with your Lyric you should be getting about 13.7 inch BB height with 2.3 tires.

    I've got mine up a half inch above delivered, to 13.5 measured using a Pike U-Turn at full 140mm travel extension, 650b front wheel with 2.3 tires (Pacenti Neo-Moto and Panaracer Rampage, front and rear). I'm rarely getting pedal strikes now.

    I've tried to think of any way to raise the BB more without making the frame angles steeper (which an alternate swingarm with lowered rear dropouts would do). Without a full center frame redesign and tooling, a 160mm travel fork is the only way. The '07 and '08Nixon 130 - 160 travel is pretty light, TNC really likes this fork on his Nomad (with 650b front wheel).

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Sean, at 160mm travel with your Lyric you should be getting about 13.7 inch BB height with 2.3 tires.

    I've got mine up a half inch above delivered, to 13.5 measured using a Pike U-Turn at full 140mm travel extension, 650b front wheel with 2.3 tires (Pacenti Neo-Moto and Panaracer Rampage, front and rear). I'm rarely getting pedal strikes now.

    I've tried to think of any way to raise the BB more without making the frame angles steeper (which an alternate swingarm with lowered rear dropouts would do). Without a full center frame redesign and tooling, a 160mm travel fork is the only way. The '07 and '08Nixon 130 - 160 travel is pretty light, TNC really likes this fork on his Nomad (with 650b front wheel).
    I'm beginning to think, the issue with pedals hitting, is an issue with heavier riders. At least, all the posts I remember, were riders over 185 lbs. I ordered a Van R with the correct spring weight. It should be here next week. I'm going to send my air shock to Push and see if they can work on the mid travel compression tuning to keep it from blowing through mid travel on very small hits. I'm climbing steep rocky granite hills and the pedals will smack. I can't be half pedaling on terrain where I need power to get through sections. The bike works excellent on smoother terrain. I can pump more in the shock, but I lose over 1/4 in. stroke and the ride isn't as good.
    Last edited by Quattro; 04-06-2008 at 09:36 PM.
    Don

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irrenarzt
    Another small edit for you is you said "dampening" in your review. You should have said damping as dampening is the act of making something slightly wet.
    no it is not. dampening is correct as well. do some more searching. i am not trying to be a jerk but i have been through this before. look it up in another dictionary.

    really, either word is acceptable.
    Last edited by mx_599; 04-06-2008 at 11:17 AM.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Thanks...fixed.
    you should change it back. you were far from incorrect.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    Whoa! 10mm through axle on the I9 Enduros? Can you describe this further? I take it that it works with standard dropouts?

    I happen to have a set of I9 Enduros, and sadly did not know there was a bolt-on option!
    you should be able to convert yours. it is just a standard drop-out. i ended up using a hadley thru-bolt on my rear I9 hub.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    I posted a thread on the Wheels forum ( Which wheels? ) asking what other brands (besides Hope, I9) offer the ability to change both the F to a 20mm and the R to a 10mm. I guess Hadley is one of those. Know of anymore that do? I didn't get any responses on the wheels forum....woulda thunk someone on there would know
    i am pretty sure you can with a dt swiss 240s hub. i was planning on it anyway unless it is an error on their site.

    mx

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Those are the only 3 that I know of. CK makes you use that stupid Fun Bolt set-up.
    dtswiss 240s as well. and they are light.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    maybe one man's really steep is not so steep for others in other areas? maybe different rider styles? For instance, I never "stand and hammer" unless I'm on my single speed or just feel like it. For me, with a 150mm fork, I do extreme steeps all the time (20-30 percent grades) and have never had the front of the Mojo come off the ground. I think the low center of gravity makes a big difference on the Mojo. I attack steeps forward on the seat, or if steeper then I'm on the tip with the saddle implanted in my backside, and finally (if needed) with my backside off and forward of the tip of the saddle. And always my upper body is bent forward.
    are you sure some of you guys aren't exaggerating grades? (not you specifically noshortcuts)

    i have barely been on roads in the 20's with my road bike according to my gps and i couldn't imagine getting up them on loose dirt and rocks.

    but if you guys are right, that is awesome! i have trouble standing on steep stuff too--offroad that is. i am on a hard tail. however, it feels like the the back tire would spin out if i even tried to stand. maybe it is the tire.

    mx
    Last edited by mx_599; 04-06-2008 at 11:19 AM.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    Garmin 305

    That descent was hairy!
    but do you try your best to extrapolate an average?? i have the 305 too, but if in a moment of time when it takes the reading and you are going up like a bike length section that is super steep, that is not to say the hill in general is that steep.

    just noticed the graphs you posted. yeah, i don't know. i would be skeptical. i don't doubt what you rode up and down was steep. however, i don't think you can just read the max value there. if the 305 happened to catch a reading while you were going up a very steep angle, it will make it look like you hit a max.

    are you able to watch the garmin as you ride? does it look like the numbers "build up" to these maximums? i'll try to watch mine on a climb i want to do today. (if i can)

    some of what's being mentioned here sounds steep for skiing!

    i don't know, just wondering...

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSutton1223
    I did get the CCDB review completed for those that are interested...

    CCDB Review
    great job!

    just a minor comment that i think would make it a bit more professional sounding are the references to clicks and turns on the adj's.

    it is standard practice to always reference the clicks and turns from fully seated (cw) ...to the point where you shouldn't have to even mention it. it should be understood, but for clarification to those readers who might not know, i think it is good you specified.

    if you were to report, hypothetically:

    LSC 6
    HSC 1 1/8 turns
    LSR 8
    HSR 1 turn

    basically, we should all know what it means.

    the part i think you should change:

    1) always reference from fully seated cw and not jump around to referencing from fully out. unless i misread you said something like 8 from fully seated and then 4 from fully out. if for example the shock has 20 total, just report to the reader that you went from 8 out to 16 out. i know it sounds trivial, but it helps with continuity. also if the reader knows there were 20 clicks and now you're at 16....you see what i am saying?? it keeps the range in perspective.

    2) early in report i would state the amount of adjustment of each. it could vary by a click or two between units, but it will pretty much be the same.

    for instance might be something like this:
    (adjustment range)

    LSC 22 clicks
    HSC 2 1/4 turns
    LSR 18
    HSR 2 1/2 turns

    if this is stated early on in report, then you throw out a number like 8 clicks out, i, as a reader, will say to myself, "oh, that is near the mid point". then if you said 18 clicks out, i would say, "oh, that is near the extreme"

    oh well, you can ignore the things i mentioned, but that is what jumped out at me.

    i enjoyed reading it though.



    mx

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx_599
    are you sure some of you guys aren't exaggerating grades? (not you specifically noshortcuts)

    i have barely been on roads in the 20's with my road bike according to my gps and i couldn't imagine getting up them on loose dirt and rocks.

    but if you guys are right, that is awesome! i have trouble standing on steep stuff too--offroad that is. i am on a hard tail. however, it feels like the the back tire would spin out if i even tried to stand. maybe it is the tire.

    mx
    All I know is that on the Garmin GPS's, it reads 37as the slope/grade. As I said earlier, I don't know the difference between the slope and grade. How I understood it was that a % slope is the ratio of vert ft/horizontal ft. So if you climbed 20 ft. in 100 ft. distance horizontally, that is a 20% slope. It seems that for the same number, grade is steeper. Meaning that a 20 % grade is steeper than a 20% slope.

    i have barely been on roads in the 20's with my road bike according to my gps and i couldn't imagine getting up them on loose dirt and rocks.
    You're riding taller gears for one....not a good comparison. Besides, road climbing and mtn bike climbing are completely different.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    All I know is that on the Garmin GPS's, it reads 37as the slope/grade. As I said earlier, I don't know the difference between the slope and grade. How I understood it was that a % slope is the ratio of vert ft/horizontal ft. So if you climbed 20 ft. in 100 ft. distance horizontally, that is a 20% slope. It seems that for the same number, grade is steeper. Meaning that a 20 % grade is steeper than a 20% slope.



    You're riding taller gears for one....not a good comparison. Besides, road climbing and mtn bike climbing are completely different.
    Also remember that (generally) mountain bikes get to do the extreme steep in much shorter bursts than you would ever encounter on a road. And we tend to have a decent entry speed into the steep section.

    Me personally, very steep for more than a few bike lengths and my legs are giving up the ghost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    ... As I said earlier, I don't know the difference between the slope and grade.
    Grade is one of the ways you can represent a slope (I don't want to use the word "measure" lest crisillo starts getting picky again). Both grade and % refer to the same method of determining slope which is dividing vertical distace by horizontal distance. Another way to represent a slope is using degrees (i.e. as an angle).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    I got the 37 degree slope data from my friend's Garmin as well. I don't have one personally but was told it was a 37ish degree climb. I do this climb all the time...for regulars at Skeggs, it's the Sierra Morena section right before CM02 heading back to CM01....pretty obvious which section it is.

    I know it's more than 20% slope because it's obvious just from the naked eye. It's probably almost as steep as ascending a flt of stairs....especially the last 20 ft. or so. I've seen people climb out of the saddle on that pitch but they basically use the run in to keep momentum and just hammer the last section. I'm more of a sit and spin kinda guy
    Again, I'm not trying to nit, but now I see what you're saying.

    I'm familiar with that slope, and agree that it could be 37 degrees. But it's not long. A sustained hill like that would kick anyone's butt. If you started at the bottom without momentum and tried to stand you would just spin out. But I can see how you could stand if you already had momentum and were just trying to add something extra to get over the top.

    I only demo'd a Mojo once, but my impression was that it held a line and let me grunt up really steep stuff better than my regular ride, which isn't a slouch by any measure (Intense 5.5). It was also more supple and stable on the downhill. I've been jonesing for a Mojo ever since that demo...

  100. #100
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    i guess you guys are right. i just did a tough climb today i kept messing up on. looking at the charts after on my gps and it says a max of around 28%.
    i know it's not like the toughest hill in the world so i could see in the upper 30's.

    good job!

    mx

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