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  1. #1
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    Ibis mojo HDR or knolly endorphin

    Just wondering if anyone here has tried both and can provide a comparison?

    I'm kind of on the fence on both. Ibis is in carbon and can be converted to 650b so that's the plus. Though I have a knolly chilcotin and the 4x4 is excellent. I've had a pivot mach 5 in the past and the dw-link on that wasn't as good(to be fair it had a shock that wasn't that good on it).

    Looking for something that is fast and fun. I've built up my chilcotin too heavy for that.

  2. #2
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    Pivot's version of DW is significantly different from Ibis' implementation. They have a lot more anti squat built in so it is not as plush on the smaller stuff. I don't have any experience on the Knolly's, but do have an FSR based bike. In general the FSR is way more active and needs a platform shock for climbing. My HD feels just as plush on the descents so there is really no downside. Ibis really nailed it with their suspension curves.

  3. #3
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    not to mention that you can really have your cake and eat it too with the Ibis. if the chilcotin uses an 8.5x2.5 rear shock, you could keep that, the fork and wheels from your chili to run the Ibis in 160 26" mode, and get a 27.5 build kit with the HDR and you could switch from an XC-raceable short travel trail bike to an AM/park bike in an hour. I'll most likely be racing cat 1 XC and enduro on my OG HD this season, swapping between long travel/heavier weight and short travel lightweight builds.

  4. #4
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    I have an HD. Even though I don't intend to run it with 650B, I could if I wanted to.

    This bike is really amazing, especially with the right shock in it. I run it with a Monarch Plus, and I don't even need to put on the compression damping in the rear to make it climb. I do, mainly because I'm slow and I need the assist, but it's not necessary.

    The Pivot DW Link feels COMPLETELY different than the Ibis. I didn't like the feel of the Pivots at all (too harsh feeling) where the Ibis just hits the sweet spot. And this is coming off a Ventana, which has a very active single pivot.

    I would love to try the Knolly, but it's impossible to find out to test ride here--especially the 160mm one in a small.
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  5. #5
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    I recently made the decision between the two. I had an SL Mojo (size large), loved it, but wanted more of a true all mountain bike. A buddy of mine was building up an Endorphin and was raving about the bike. So of course I read all the reviews I could find online (which are all great for the most part) and went out and demoed one (large) from Laguna Beach Cyclery. I took it out twice to Aliso Woods hitting just about every trail there. The first thing I noticed was how different the geometry felt. I felt like my legs were extending forward? Not sure how to explain it. The bike wasn't too big cause I actually felt kind of cramped in the cockpit. The second thing I noticed was how much I missed my x fusion fork and shock combo. Not the bikes fault of course. I climbed Cholla a few times and wasn't getting the climbing efficiency I was hoping for from all the reviews I've read. Maybe the steeper headtube angle on my SL got me used to climbing easier. Could have been the geometry of the Endorphin not feeling quite right to me. As far as peddle bob, the SL locked out in the rear felt much stiffer/firmer/more planted than the Endorphin did with the fox ctd.
    Going down Lynx, Rockit, Stairsteps, Five Oaks and Meadows was certainly a blast and the bike did perform better than my SL did for sure. I liked the slacker headtube angle and the longer travel. That's what I wanted most of all when buying a new bike, to go down the mountain better/faster, with more control. But again it wasn't what I was hoping for based on the reviews. I was expecting a sh!t eating grin on my face to be honest and it just wasn't there.
    So! I decided eff it I'm getting the HDR. I hadn't demoed it, and I went with an XL instead of a large. I went with the XL because I'm 6'2" and I always felt I should have gotten an XL SL Mojo. It was a huge decision for me and I was freaking out the whole time because I hadn't demoed an XL or an HDR. The reason I demoed the large Endorphin and not an XL was because one, that's all I could find to demo, and two the specs on the frame are a bit bigger than the large Mojo frame.
    Long story short, I got the new XL HDR built and I went out to ride and the first thing I thought was thank god I got an XL! Major difference in overall comfort in the cockpit and pedaling platform. The second then that went through my thoughts was I'm so glad to be back on that familiar DW link feel. It just feels sooooo damn good pedaling, climbing and descending. I climbed Cholla first and believe it or not I had a smile on my face when I got to the top....I've never had even a remote grin on my face after climbing Cholla. I went and hit Lynx and fell head over heals in love with the bike, life, nature, all that is beautiful, ok you get the point. That's what I was looking for, that's what I dreamed a bike could be and should be. I was floored by how well the bike handled the trail, it's ability to move when and where I wanted it to, the way it took the drops and big hits was breathtaking. And that was just one short arse trail! It just got better the harder I went too. The DW link is much quieter too btw. It just feels fluid all the time.
    Again I'm 6'2" ~188 xl frame, 160 X Fusion Vengence, Cane Creek CCDB air CS, 26" wheels. Now, this may have been heaven for me because the xl frame fits and that's really all I needed in the first place. But what ever the case is, I know for sure that the HDR is by leaps and bounds better than any bike I've ridding (which isn't a lot, nor I'm I by any means an expert, far from it haha).

  6. #6
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    Thanks for all your reviews.

    It's interesting that the dw-link on the ibis is different from that on the pivot. Pivot was really weird I found. Maybe it was the setup I don't know. It just felt not very compliant on the downhills and when going up ledges had this weird feeling of putting tension on the chain. Uphill fire roads was good though.

    I'm really intrigued by the HDR. Still on the fence but may just edge towards the Ibis just because it is a different linkage....and it's ability to go 27.5

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinhot996 View Post
    The first thing I noticed was how different the geometry felt. I felt like my legs were extending forward? Not sure how to explain it.
    Hey justinhot996, it didn't feel like the effective seat angle on the Endorphin was too slack did it? Kinda what it sounds like and that would be bad for me. The actual SA is 71, but effective SA is listed at 73.5. I need it steeper and 73.5 would be perfect. The Mojo HD is 71.1 which is why I haven't considered it. Does it feel like you're pedaling from further back behind the bottom bracket on the Endorphin or Mojo HD? Thanks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Thanks for all your reviews.

    It's interesting that the dw-link on the ibis is different from that on the pivot. Pivot was really weird I found. Maybe it was the setup I don't know. It just felt not very compliant on the downhills and when going up ledges had this weird feeling of putting tension on the chain. Uphill fire roads was good though.

    I'm really intrigued by the HDR. Still on the fence but may just edge towards the Ibis just because it is a different linkage....and it's ability to go 27.5
    Despite what people tell you, it's not just the suspension design, it's how it's implemented.

    Some single pivots may feel really good, but others may not. Same goes for DW link. I personally hate the feel of the Pivots I've ridden, but other people like them. The tightening of the chain you felt is called chain growth, which is something that can happen with the DW link. The single pivots or more active suspensions tend to bob up and down on the climbs unless you apply a lot of compression damping like ProPedal in the Fox shocks.

    Coming from an active suspension (the Ventana single pivot), I really like the feel of the Ibis DW link, but the Pivot felt way harsh to me.. almost like riding a hardtail.

    But--the DW link takes a lot of getting it adjusted right. It felt like it's requiring a lot more of getting it adjusted than the single pivot did.
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  9. #9
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    I prefer the Ibis tune also, with less chain growth / anti-squat and a little more plush & playful feel, less stiff and business-like.... word on the street is that the Mach6 has moved more in that direction than earlier Pivot DW's..... looking forward to Salespunk's compare/contrast after he gets the M6 rolling.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by So Cal RX View Post
    it feel like you're pedaling from further back behind the bottom bracket on the Endorphin .
    You nailed it. That's exactly how it felt on the endorphin. On the HDR it's just perfectly aligned/angled for pedaling power. For me anyway.

  11. #11
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    I owned an endorphin for about two months and could not get the bike to fit properly. I am 6 1" with short 32 " inseem and I could not get the seat forward enough to pedal efficently. It felt like I was pushing forward on the pedals. I bought a large HD and the pedalling position was perfect but the top tube was a tad short at 23.8. I fixed that by wider bars, 740 and a 70 mm stem.

    The 4x4 linkage is very active, it made the bike feel "dull". it soaked everything up for sure and was great iin chunk. It did not climb well for me too active and I was too far over the back wheel. The IBIS HD 160 is the best combiation of geometry, pedaling, strength, weight, and plushness on the market in my opinion.

    I hope a HD 29 is on the horizon or a true 650B 160mm with proper geo.

  12. #12
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    Great topic. I have a chilcotin and while its great on the dh climbing fireroads is not so fun. I have been thinking of demoing a HD or HDR, as I'm looking for a more efficient climber, 4x4 might be a good tech climber but I think most of our hills in socal are smooth and 4x4 is not as critical here.

  13. #13
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    I "did time" on an Endorphin for over two years, and would echo what motoguru mentioned about being too far off the back of the bike for steep climbing; I'm 6'1" with a longer inseam. Excessive squat along with a tendency to compress the suspension in the pedaling downstroke only made the problem worse. The Endorphin is hopefully the last bike I purchase without demoing, but since I had just broken my Gen 1 Nomad and was traveling to BC for a two week road trip, I was in need of a frame...

    My early take on FSR/ICT/4x4 (previous bikes) vs DW was that it was better to start with full control over the shock damping and then tune it via a shock with separate high/low speed compresson and rebound, vs having the linkage do most of the work. On the Endorphin, I spent much time "dialing in" a CCDB coil shock for one section of trail, only to find that the same settings were too harsh or too soft for another section. Middle of the road settings were too compromised. On my DW link bikes, I found that the linkage was giving me the ride I wanted with minimal shock tuning; efficient on the climbs, fast on the descents. And all with minimal chain growth; i.e. none of the chain tug/pedal stall that was present on my VPP gen 1 Nomad in the steep ledgy climbing.

    If you are in the market for a 27.5 bike, the Mach6 is a very good candidate. I recently built one up and it tops my list for all time favorite bikes for the intended purpose/market segment. For reference, my HD is ~31.5 lbs with a Fox 36, Mach6 is ~28 lbs with a Fox 34, and my 429 is ~28 lbs with a Fox 32. The Mach6 is super fun and fast! Still plan to travel with my HD to bike parks, etc..

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