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  1. #1
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    Ibis Mojo HD or Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon? Tough decision - Where are the HD reviews??

    Hi, I am looking for a new all-mountain rig. After many hours of raping google I have 2 favorites: The Ibis Mojo HD and the Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon.
    I expect the Nomad Carbon to ride almost the same as the normal alloy Nomad. It will be stiffer and lighter but performance should be the same.
    But what about the Mojo HD? I've seen some people already having their frames but no reviews yet?
    Both bikes have nearly the same geometry so it comes down to suspension performance I think. Which one will have the edge on that?
    I usually prefer coil shocks but Ibis mentioned that the Mojo HD is working best with an air shock. So a Nomad Carbon with a good coil vs. Mojo HD with the air?
    Has someone been able to test ride both?

  2. #2
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    nice problem to have.

    I'm biased but I think the Mojo HD looks awesome

  3. #3
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    Only review I've seen has been on the turner forum - and that is probably just a troll.

  4. #4
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    Your dilemma is a lovely one. I've owned and loved a Nomad for years, sometimes as my main ride. I've got a Mojo SL now and for me it comes down to the suspension when climbing under power. I *love* how the Ibis flavor of DW works going uphill.

    The Nomad I had was on the lighter side at 30.5lbs and in general it shined. What slowly started annoying the sh!t out of me was the pedal kickback when climbing tech, usually square-edged bumpy sections. This is the achilles heel of the VPP IMO. I know they've improved the design some, but I suspect it's still there.

    The DW Mojo just feels more neutral. I suspect the HD will continue that tradition.
    - -benja- -

  5. #5
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    There is a short writ up in the AZ forum.

  6. #6
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    My standard Mojo C rides and pedals smoother than the aluminum Nomads I've ridden. And my Mojo rear braking is grippier, more powerful, before locking up or skipping traction. I like the looks of both the HD and the Nomad frames without the stripes, the HD stripes are more pleasing to my eyes.

    I can only imagine the HD is even more plush and smooth, more so night and day in suspension quality with DWL and similar travel to the Nomad VPP.

  7. #7
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    OK, so there's 10 posts on this thread now, and nobody has answered the OP's question:

    "Has someone been able to ride both?"

    All together now: "NO"

    just trying to slow down the e-speculation train as it leaves the station.
    here we go again

  8. #8
    The Crow
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    Review on Turner thread
    Mojo HD: A REAL Thoroughbred
    There's a feeling I get
    When I look to the West
    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  9. #9
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    Hope some people will come with reviews on the weekend.
    What make me wondering a bit: Shimano was showing their news 3x10 drivetrain on the Mojo HD but no reviews on the bike they rode?
    Come on guys, their are already some lucky owners of the HD out their, please post your comments on the new bike.

    For me the most important thing is the suspension. They should ride somewhat similar due to their geometry, but how is the suspension working on both the Mojo HD and the Nomad?

  10. #10
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    I am planning to hit the demo on Sunday to ride the HD. There is a short rock wall section on the trail where they are demoing that I can push it through its paces on (not too hard since its not my bike). I will ride it on the same trail back to back with my uzzi VP for a good comparison between the two. I will post something here if I do indeed make it out.

    I unfortunately haven't ridden a V.2 nomad to give a comparison there.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    I am planning to hit the demo on Sunday to ride the HD. There is a short rock wall section on the trail where they are demoing that I can push it through its paces on (not too hard since its not my bike). I will ride it on the same trail back to back with my uzzi VP for a good comparison between the two. I will post something here if I do indeed make it out.

    I unfortunately haven't ridden a V.2 nomad to give a comparison there.

    That would be great. I know the Uzzi so it would help me (and others as well) I think.

  12. #12
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    If you literally couldn't call it either way, I'd get the Mojo HD for the absolutely flawless warranty, at least 3 years of confidence you'll be sorted out. Only 2 years on the Santa Cruz and it's quite a bit bigger company.

  13. #13
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    For me the decision was easy. The DW link suspension simply pedals more effeciently than the VPP2 used by Santa Cruz. I know this first hand as I ride both a Mojo SL and a Santa Cruz Blur XCc, and look forward to getting the Mojo HD built up (waiting on Fox fork). The pedal feedback on the blur is noticible, though minimized by my conversion of to the XX 2x10 drivetrain (bigger ring), It was very noticible w/ 3x9 granny, where I made a subconscience effort to stay in the middle ring. So the DW link provides a more plush travel, better climbing traction overall. The Mojo HD for this reason wins out over Nomad. I must say, however that the SC carbon Nomad is one beautiful frame. I think Santa Cruz has a little better carbon formula, as my blur frame is uber stiff and has little details like molded cable guides that are lacking in the Ibis.

  14. #14
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    I was trying to decide between Blur LT/Mojo/Nomad/Mojo HD. I first tried the Blur and Nomad and really liked them although they didn't feel as plush as when I got to try the Mojo and the Mojo felt like it climbed better. One factor for me was I am right in between sizes of L and XL on both brands and the Ibis XL is slightly smaller than SC XL, only about 0.2 inches in top and head tube and 0.7 in wheelbase??? so was leaning that way.

    Once I got to try the HD, I was sold right away. Didn't have much time on it but it just felt "right" for me. Another factor dissuading me from the Nomad was that there isn't a very clear preference on what rear shock to use. Seems pretty split on whether to use air or coil whereas the Mojos were designed around the air, so right of the bat, lighter frame and shocks on the Ibis side.

    Lastly, the Mojo HD is priced equivalently to the aluminium Nomad and around here, the carbon would have been ~$3-500 more, so that was a bonus too.

  15. #15
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    These comparison debates always turn out a bit odd/biased especially when asked in a particular brand's forum.
    Do you prefer VPP or a DW-Link bike? Once you figure that out you'll know which bike you want. You can't go wrong with either brand.

  16. #16
    Solo Bici Magazine Spain
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    Hi there! I have ridden both. I mostly do agree with Buggycanman and Robnow. I have to say I have ridden pretty much every bike from Santa Cruz and IBIS. Although it had more pedal feedback, more chain extension, etc... I really liked VPP first generation bikes. Higher virtual pivot trajectory, different position of the links made a plusher ride you cannot find on any -Blur xc c, Blur LTc or Nomad c now, compared with the let's say old ones. I have been recently riding these SC carbon bikes and I will also say the Blur LT is a good all terrain bike but it has a too steep HA, too slack SA, pedals better than the XC carbon but you still beg for a more capable, plusher overall ride and rear suspension. Pedals too good for this 5.5 bike.
    But Blur LTc is way stiffer, great links etc, but not as good overall plush ride as the Ibis Mojo Carbon. I have and Ibis Mojo for 2 years now and I have to admit it is the best bike I have ever ridden. This 5.5 inch bike is my cross country-trail bike with a super light kit and it really shines climbing anywhere any gear (of course some granny feedback you can of course admit and cannot complain about) and it is almost a downhill bike going down. So impressive the downhill skills of the standard Mojo. Better going down than any other DW similar bike you can compare. Of course I would prefer more stiffness here or there or even a slacker HA, 67ļ should also be a standard for 5.5 bikes.

    Going back to Nomad Carbon and IBIS HD.
    The Nomad is sooo beautiful. Pedals good, good geometry -Santa Cruz trademark geo- good overall bike/ride.
    IBIS HD. Pedals impressibly well, better than the Nomad for sure, middle and big ring effectiveness is so impressive. It pedals better than some of even most 4" to 5" inch bikes. Test it to believe. For the tech geeks middle ring anti-squat is on the 100% level all the time meaning effectiveness is there, with no pedal induced feedback of rear suspension bobing interference on most cogs. Geometry feels just perfect. If you like longer travel bikes perhaps you would have preferred a slacker HA. But with a Lyrik or a 36 from Fox (I have been testing the HD with a Fox 36 Talas 2011) feels just right for any type of riding. And there is always room for a more tight BB height which makes a difference. On the HD feels just okay.
    The ride is soo precise. HD is so stiff. Nomad is also very very stiff and if you look into details you realise the Nomad is a piece of art. But so is the HD. I could also notice more stiffness on the rear end maybe because of the thru axle of the HD. That makes a difference for the ones of you looking for a more extreme ride where you can really benefit of this. I am not saying the Nomad is flexy, you can really feel some kind of flex if you compare and hey, flex is welcome in some cases, and the Nomad carbon feels just right. Another key note. I rode the HD with Fox Talas front, RP23 Boostvalve rear. A perfect match. You can also fit a DHX Air on HD M, L XT. I rode the Nomad with a DHX Air and Lyrik 170 Motion Control DH fork. Rear suspension designs are different, shocks are different, you can play more with the DHX Air to allow you to dial the ride to your likings but the result is that I also felt that the HD has a more supple ride over bumps compared to the Nomad. Hey this is just what I was feeling from a 2 day ride on the HD and 5 day ride on the Nomad carbon. If you buy a Nomad you will never have a problem. Any of them are perfect bets. Nomad c frame is bomb-proof and rear suspension is now with the VPP2 100% reliable -as it is on any other alu SC bikes- and you will not have to suffer noisy rides as with first gen VPP past bikes. Mojo HD is so beautiful too. For my liking this is now my first choice if I could buy a new bike now. It will never dissapoint you. If you are a hardcore xc profile guy you will love the new HD, but hey, have you ridden the standard Mojo?? The HD for sure is way stiffer and it offers a completely different ride but for maybe 95% users I would recommend the Mojo over the HD. I love the HD as it stands as the perfect example of high technology and the latest of our passion nowadays which is mountain biking. A 160 mm bike that can handle anything and pedals as good or better than most xc bikes? Oh my God, take a ride and let us know. Of course the Nomad is a good example here too. You can build these HD/Nomad bikes for a more xc ride or a more freeride use. I think the Nomad is perhaps more suited for a more freeride oriented ride but then you realise it is not a slack as it needs to be, but feels okay for most of the ride but the steepest downhills. You can run a guide and single ring if you want it too on the HD too. Ask Lopes and see his results on the HD. Awesome.
    I would spec both with 2x10 if I could and in both cases you will have a better pedal efficiency compared to using a 22 or 24 granny. Thru axle 135x12 on the HD is just perfect in a world that, from 2011 on, we will all be using thru axles (135x12 and 142x12 mm) in all or most of our bikes. From full suspension xc to downhill rear thru axles makes sense. For any bike from the Specialized Epic to the Santa Cruz V10 thru axles makes sense.
    Last one. This DW Link HD design might appear to be and old design as it is, but it gets the best out of a air shock. Being regressive then rising rate, coupled with a tuned Fox RP23 shock makes a simply great ride. I felt the Santa Cruz Nomad carbon more rising towards the end than the HD which I didn't like (the Nomad being so rising). I prefer a more linear stroke, that I think I could have had playing more with the DHX Air.
    Although I really had a great and unforgetable times riding the Nomad in the Santa Cruz area / mountains, I would say that I like the HD more. Fox 36 Float,Easton Haven wheels and 2x10 combo and i will be happy. Oh, Joplin post or something similar for the big rides is mandatory too. But for the rest?? I would not change my standard Mojo 5.5 bike for nothing.
    The only problem for the HD is that there are still just a few available. You'd better place your order now if you really like it. Weights and pricing are similar. In this high end high tech bikes how good a bike look is also very important. And hey, for most of us is the most important thing. Bling bling factor is a key thing too, right? hehe.
    I don't know if I am helping somehow or confusing but I would just like to be fair on my comments as I have had the chance to ride all VPP bikes from Santa Cruz from 2001 on (where is the original Blur awesome ride pleaseeee!!!!!) and latest from IBIS too.
    If any question I would try to answer soon.
    Have a great riding weekend and happy trails !!!

  17. #17
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    I got to test ride the HD for 40 minutes this morning. I currently have a pivot firebird.

    Because it was such a quick ride, I didn't really get a chance to dial in the suspension completely. I did a steep climb (botasso link trail) and turned around and did the downhill.

    When climbing, the HD felt a lot like the mojo that I demoed last year. The suspension was compliant on the uphill, and had a nice buttery feel to it, softer than the pivot. I didn't feel like it was inefficient at all though. I had propedal turned off the whole time. Like with the firebird, with the head angle you really have to be alert on steep climbs so you don't steer off the trail.

    When I turned around and rode the downhill - the suspension felt pretty firm to me. At the bottom I took out 10lbs from the rear shock and went partway up the climb again. It steepened up the head angle and made it a little tougher to steer going up, but it still felt ok for pedaling, if a little too soft. Going down the suspension was definitely much more plush. So I've tried too plush and too stiff on the suspension, and in both I thought the pedaling was fine. So there's probably a level in the middle that's just right. I didn't play with the rebound at all either, so that might play a role.

    Handling was nice - I think the bike had a longish stem on it (maybe 100mm?) and I felt fairly stretched out when seated. On the descent though I didn't feel like I was reaching for the bar, good stuff. I'd probably go a bit shorter on the stem.

    I have a heckler, and that's a bike that likes to pop a wheelie. The firebird has longer chainstays and its more of a task to ride the back wheel. The HD is a bit less long in the chainstays and so it was easier to wheelie than the pivot I think.

    So to sum up, firebird vs HD:

    - climbing, the HD has that great mojo feel to it, it rounds off the bumps yet still feels efficient. There is something to be said for the pivot though, it feels super solid when pedaling, if a less compliant on rocks and roots.

    - descending, I have to give the nod to the firebird for now. This is basically because I have it more dialed in for me suspension wise. Probably, the HD suspension could be set up to be just right also, but I didn't get a chance to do that.

    - handling, I think the bikes are about even. The HD is maybe a little more playful with the shorter chainstays, while the pivot might be a little more stable for the same reason, but its not a huge difference. The steering geometry is very similar.

    Other stuff:

    the test bike had the new 11 speed XT drivetrain with a 36 tooth gear in the back and a 24 tooth granny in the front. Shifting was fine although the FD needed some tuning. I didn't feel at a loss for gears.

    There was also one of the new CB joplin 4s on there. Unlike my 3 inch joplin it stayed down when in the down position, and up in the up position. Better seals, or just hasn't developed the problems yet? Who knows. I might spring for the 125$ upgrade in a few months if it has good reviews.

    Last was the WTB mutano 2.4 tires. These looked pretty much identical to the mutano raptors I've run in the past, maybe a little bigger than I remember them. They were set up tubeless on some crank brothers wheels, I put the pressure at about 22-23lbs. On the way up I lost grip a couple times on the damp roots and rocks. I'm not sure if grip would have been any better with a different tire or not. The back tire had a bit of wear on it. I'm a fan of the mutanos, so I'm glad to seem them updated with the tougher sidewalls and UST style bead.

  18. #18
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    Good reviews!

  19. #19
    Dirt Drifter
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Wow

    I really appreciate the time you put in to the response, but man being strait forward with your opinion and less talking in circles would be nice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Isracing
    Hi there! I have ridden both. I mostly do agree with Buggycanman and Robnow. I have to say I have ridden pretty much every bike from Santa Cruz and IBIS. Although it had more pedal feedback, more chain extension, etc... I really liked VPP first generation bikes. Higher virtual pivot trajectory, different position of the links made a plusher ride you cannot find on any -Blur xc c, Blur LTc or Nomad c now, compared with the let's say old ones. I have been recently riding these SC carbon bikes and I will also say the Blur LT is a good all terrain bike but it has a too steep HA, too slack SA, pedals better than the XC carbon but you still beg for a more capable, plusher overall ride and rear suspension. Pedals too good for this 5.5 bike.
    But Blur LTc is way stiffer, great links etc, but not as good overall plush ride as the Ibis Mojo Carbon. I have and Ibis Mojo for 2 years now and I have to admit it is the best bike I have ever ridden. This 5.5 inch bike is my cross country-trail bike with a super light kit and it really shines climbing anywhere any gear (of course some granny feedback you can of course admit and cannot complain about) and it is almost a downhill bike going down. So impressive the downhill skills of the standard Mojo. Better going down than any other DW similar bike you can compare. Of course I would prefer more stiffness here or there or even a slacker HA, 67ļ should also be a standard for 5.5 bikes.

    Going back to Nomad Carbon and IBIS HD.
    The Nomad is sooo beautiful. Pedals good, good geometry -Santa Cruz trademark geo- good overall bike/ride.
    IBIS HD. Pedals impressibly well, better than the Nomad for sure, middle and big ring effectiveness is so impressive. It pedals better than some of even most 4" to 5" inch bikes. Test it to believe. For the tech geeks middle ring anti-squat is on the 100% level all the time meaning effectiveness is there, with no pedal induced feedback of rear suspension bobing interference on most cogs. Geometry feels just perfect. If you like longer travel bikes perhaps you would have preferred a slacker HA. But with a Lyrik or a 36 from Fox (I have been testing the HD with a Fox 36 Talas 2011) feels just right for any type of riding. And there is always room for a more tight BB height which makes a difference. On the HD feels just okay.
    The ride is soo precise. HD is so stiff. Nomad is also very very stiff and if you look into details you realise the Nomad is a piece of art. But so is the HD. I could also notice more stiffness on the rear end maybe because of the thru axle of the HD. That makes a difference for the ones of you looking for a more extreme ride where you can really benefit of this. I am not saying the Nomad is flexy, you can really feel some kind of flex if you compare and hey, flex is welcome in some cases, and the Nomad carbon feels just right. Another key note. I rode the HD with Fox Talas front, RP23 Boostvalve rear. A perfect match. You can also fit a DHX Air on HD M, L XT. I rode the Nomad with a DHX Air and Lyrik 170 Motion Control DH fork. Rear suspension designs are different, shocks are different, you can play more with the DHX Air to allow you to dial the ride to your likings but the result is that I also felt that the HD has a more supple ride over bumps compared to the Nomad. Hey this is just what I was feeling from a 2 day ride on the HD and 5 day ride on the Nomad carbon. If you buy a Nomad you will never have a problem. Any of them are perfect bets. Nomad c frame is bomb-proof and rear suspension is now with the VPP2 100% reliable -as it is on any other alu SC bikes- and you will not have to suffer noisy rides as with first gen VPP past bikes. Mojo HD is so beautiful too. For my liking this is now my first choice if I could buy a new bike now. It will never dissapoint you. If you are a hardcore xc profile guy you will love the new HD, but hey, have you ridden the standard Mojo?? The HD for sure is way stiffer and it offers a completely different ride but for maybe 95% users I would recommend the Mojo over the HD. I love the HD as it stands as the perfect example of high technology and the latest of our passion nowadays which is mountain biking. A 160 mm bike that can handle anything and pedals as good or better than most xc bikes? Oh my God, take a ride and let us know. Of course the Nomad is a good example here too. You can build these HD/Nomad bikes for a more xc ride or a more freeride use. I think the Nomad is perhaps more suited for a more freeride oriented ride but then you realise it is not a slack as it needs to be, but feels okay for most of the ride but the steepest downhills. You can run a guide and single ring if you want it too on the HD too. Ask Lopes and see his results on the HD. Awesome.
    I would spec both with 2x10 if I could and in both cases you will have a better pedal efficiency compared to using a 22 or 24 granny. Thru axle 135x12 on the HD is just perfect in a world that, from 2011 on, we will all be using thru axles (135x12 and 142x12 mm) in all or most of our bikes. From full suspension xc to downhill rear thru axles makes sense. For any bike from the Specialized Epic to the Santa Cruz V10 thru axles makes sense.
    Last one. This DW Link HD design might appear to be and old design as it is, but it gets the best out of a air shock. Being regressive then rising rate, coupled with a tuned Fox RP23 shock makes a simply great ride. I felt the Santa Cruz Nomad carbon more rising towards the end than the HD which I didn't like (the Nomad being so rising). I prefer a more linear stroke, that I think I could have had playing more with the DHX Air.
    Although I really had a great and unforgetable times riding the Nomad in the Santa Cruz area / mountains, I would say that I like the HD more. Fox 36 Float,Easton Haven wheels and 2x10 combo and i will be happy. Oh, Joplin post or something similar for the big rides is mandatory too. But for the rest?? I would not change my standard Mojo 5.5 bike for nothing.
    The only problem for the HD is that there are still just a few available. You'd better place your order now if you really like it. Weights and pricing are similar. In this high end high tech bikes how good a bike look is also very important. And hey, for most of us is the most important thing. Bling bling factor is a key thing too, right? hehe.
    I don't know if I am helping somehow or confusing but I would just like to be fair on my comments as I have had the chance to ride all VPP bikes from Santa Cruz from 2001 on (where is the original Blur awesome ride pleaseeee!!!!!) and latest from IBIS too.
    If any question I would try to answer soon.
    Have a great riding weekend and happy trails !!!
    Courtney

  20. #20
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    I just got back from riding the Mojo HD. Here is my mini review. I will do it as a comparison to my current bike (Intense Uzzi VP with DHX-Air) and Pivot Firebird which I spent a few days on in Moab.

    There are a few caveats I want to throw into this review. The HD was setup with some less than stellar tires (Mutanoís I believe) and a really long stem for this class of bike. The trail was also very crowded so I was only able to get the flow going in a few sections and down the most important part, the rock garden.

    Climbing

    Winner hands down is the HD. Color me a believer in the DW Link. No pedal feedback and I did not perceive any pedal bob. The thing just climbed like no other while soaking up the technical features on the trail. I was really impressed with how this thing performed.

    A pretty close second goes to the Firebird. It was a bit stiffer off the top giving it a nice platform but it loses out because the HD absorbed the technical climbs better while offering the same perceived benefits from the anti-squat. Both brilliant climbers for what they are.

    My Uzzi brings up the rear. The VPP2 is almost equal to the DW Links in the middle ring but doesnít seem to have the same pep in the granny. There isnít the nasty pedal feedback anymore but it just doesnít have the same pep / drive as the two above-mentioned rigs. It still suffers from a bit of mid-stroke wallow as well with the DHX-A which hurts its climbing to a certain extent. That said, it is not a bad climber just not great. But hey, itís more on the FR side and I am comparing it to two of the best climbers I have ridden.

    Descending

    First place goes to the Uzzi. This thing just rips. This result is really not a surprise as it is more on the FR side than the other two frames as I mentioned above.

    It feels longer (it is), slacker (slightly with my talas 36 and standard king headset Ė 66.7 degrees) and lower than the other bikes (even though the numbers donít say its lower but about the same). I think it feels lower than the others because the VPP/DHX-A begs you to ride it with more sag than the DW bikes. I ride 33% sag on my air shock on the uzzi and never knock the ring off. I rode the HD with much less sag and drove the ring right to the end of the travel without pushing it too hard today. This increased sag, combined with longer travel leads to a low riding bike that loves to carve. The other thing about the Uzzi that I like is the longer top tube (which leads to longer wheel base as well) allows me to run a short stem without feeling too cramped. I really like large frames that are longer in the wheelbase and top tube with a 50mm stem and wide bar. This is personal preference though.

    There are two negatives for descending on the Uzzi. First, if things get flat and tight, you wrestle with the bike a bit but that is where the Talas comes in handy. Second, with the DHX-A in the seven inch mode (havenít used 6.5 yet) the curve could use a bit more mid stroke support for popping off jumps and a bit less ramp at the end of the stroke. This type of curve is a positive for the low riding mentioned above but I would like to see it go a bit back in the other direction. This is also a consequence of the curve being designed around a coil. The upside to this is it soaks up EVERYTHING.

    Second goes to the Firebird. The Firebirdís geometry made it more similar to the Uzzi just watered down a little bit. It felt longer and lower than the HD and it was really a fun bike when things got hairy. It was one of those bikes that I almost immediately felt at home on when I started on my first ride with it on Hazard/UPS/LPS/Porc - which is saying something.

    The negative here is I really didnít think the DW link was well sorted for downhill on this bike. I was getting bucked around a lot on square edged hits no matter what I did to the suspension. Geometry is more important than suspension performance to me so it is no way a deal breaker but I think this could be improved upon (or my shock tuning sharpened???).

    Third goes to the HD. Donít take third as this bike didnít handle downhill well because it did. It is just third in comparison to the two bikes above which are great descenders. I will start with the pros first. I cannot say enough about the rear suspension action. The rear end on this bike is just eutopia. It was firm and controlled yet plush. Amazing mid-stroke support for an airshock. I would have liked a bit more ramp at the end of travel but that is a very MINOR request. The back end just inspired confidence on the way down. I would also say this bike takes flight off lips better than any bike I have ridden. It launches you into the air effortlessly and markedly higher than the other two. This made for a very fun ride.

    The reason it slipped to third is that it just felt a bit higher, shorter and less stable going down than the other two bikes. Not by a wide margin but it felt a bit more trail oriented. This also could have had a bit to do with the setup on the bike as well (more trail oriented stem, bars and tires). This thing was still a ripper.

    There is my quick review. I think the best thing I can say about it is next time I am in the market for a new frame, the HD will be in the top one or two slots for consideration. Hands down, the HD offers the least compromises within the all mountain realm (for bikes I have ridden) for someone looking to keep up with their XC buddies and rip it the next day down a steep rocky trail.

    I would really like to try one setup with better tires and cockpit at some point for a better comparison.

    On a side note, I really couldnít tell a difference between the carbon on the HD and the aluminum on every other bike I have ridden. Not sure if it is a bit placebo or if my butt isnít as sensitive to the deadening sensation carbon provides. However, I have no hesitance in buying a carbon frame that is well designed.

    Cheers to the Ibis guys who were great in talking about the bike and getting me setup!

  21. #21
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    Thanks for your review too. Which size was the Mojo and how long was the stem on it (and how tall are you)?
    You also said you've run much less sag on the Mojo HD than on your Uzzi (which is about 33%). When I remember correctly this is not the best for the Mojo. I think it has to be ridden with about 30-40% sag. That's what DW said in a thread here on mtbr.

    I am really close on ordering a Mojo HD instead of the Nomad Carbon right now. Regardless the riding qualities it has a few things that I miss on the Nomad like a 12mm axle in the rear (very importand to have a thru axle today I think) and better color choices (I would go for the Vitamin P on the HD). It even has the postmount standard for the rear brake which is great I think.
    What I am not very sure about is the size I should get. I normally tend to ride medium frames so far but it seems that a lot of riders with my size (6') are going for a large mojo. But some are on mediums too so that's my hardest decision right now.
    I also will swap the RP23 for a custom tuned coil shock I think.

  22. #22
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    It was a large mojo. The stem looked like a 100mm or so. I am 6'1 and 205 with gear.

    The man himself set me up on the HD and actually made the rear a bit softer than normal due to the shock pump crapping out towards the end of the adjustments. They may say it likes more sag but it doesn't seem to cope with the less air to achieve that sag at the end of stroke as well as the VPP (not abhorent though as I still feel it has the best suspension action of the bunch - everything is a compromise. I also always blow through rp23's too easily on every frame I have ridden them on). The reason for my conclusion is I don't think I really pushed it too hard and used all of the travel on the bike. This could also have been due to a setup issue with too little air (who knows). It was just a quick test ride so take all of my comments with a grain of salt.

    It is a great bike and I really enjoyed it. I am sure you will not be dissapointed. Like I said, I would consider getting one myself. There really aren't too many compromises with this frame.

    Edit: I would also take this over the Firebird without hesitation. I think IBIS did themselves a huge disservice with how they setup their bikes. I am sure a proper setup would narrow if not almost eliminate the descending gap between the two frames from a geometry/feel perspective. Combine this with the better suspension and really good climbing and I would take it over the Pivot. And the Pivot is d*** ugly.
    Last edited by smithrider; 05-16-2010 at 03:40 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    I just got back from riding the Mojo HD. Here is my mini review. I will do it as a comparison to my current bike (Intense Uzzi VP with DHX-Air) and Pivot Firebird which I spent a few days on in Moab.

    There are a few caveats I want to throw into this review. The HD was setup with some less than stellar tires (Mutanoís I believe) and a really long stem for this class of bike. The trail was also very crowded so I was only able to get the flow going in a few sections and down the most important part, the rock garden.

    Climbing

    Winner hands down is the HD. Color me a believer in the DW Link. No pedal feedback and I did not perceive any pedal bob. The thing just climbed like no other while soaking up the technical features on the trail. I was really impressed with how this thing performed.

    A pretty close second goes to the Firebird. It was a bit stiffer off the top giving it a nice platform but it loses out because the HD absorbed the technical climbs better while offering the same perceived benefits from the anti-squat. Both brilliant climbers for what they are.

    My Uzzi brings up the rear. The VPP2 is almost equal to the DW Links in the middle ring but doesnít seem to have the same pep in the granny. There isnít the nasty pedal feedback anymore but it just doesnít have the same pep / drive as the two above-mentioned rigs. It still suffers from a bit of mid-stroke wallow as well with the DHX-A which hurts its climbing to a certain extent. That said, it is not a bad climber just not great. But hey, itís more on the FR side and I am comparing it to two of the best climbers I have ridden.

    Descending

    First place goes to the Uzzi. This thing just rips. This result is really not a surprise as it is more on the FR side than the other two frames as I mentioned above.

    It feels longer (it is), slacker (slightly with my talas 36 and standard king headset Ė 66.7 degrees) and lower than the other bikes (even though the numbers donít say its lower but about the same). I think it feels lower than the others because the VPP/DHX-A begs you to ride it with more sag than the DW bikes. I ride 33% sag on my air shock on the uzzi and never knock the ring off. I rode the HD with much less sag and drove the ring right to the end of the travel without pushing it too hard today. This increased sag, combined with longer travel leads to a low riding bike that loves to carve. The other thing about the Uzzi that I like is the longer top tube (which leads to longer wheel base as well) allows me to run a short stem without feeling too cramped. I really like large frames that are longer in the wheelbase and top tube with a 50mm stem and wide bar. This is personal preference though.

    There are two negatives for descending on the Uzzi. First, if things get flat and tight, you wrestle with the bike a bit but that is where the Talas comes in handy. Second, with the DHX-A in the seven inch mode (havenít used 6.5 yet) the curve could use a bit more mid stroke support for popping off jumps and a bit less ramp at the end of the stroke. This type of curve is a positive for the low riding mentioned above but I would like to see it go a bit back in the other direction. This is also a consequence of the curve being designed around a coil. The upside to this is it soaks up EVERYTHING.

    Second goes to the Firebird. The Firebirdís geometry made it more similar to the Uzzi just watered down a little bit. It felt longer and lower than the HD and it was really a fun bike when things got hairy. It was one of those bikes that I almost immediately felt at home on when I started on my first ride with it on Hazard/UPS/LPS/Porc - which is saying something.

    The negative here is I really didnít think the DW link was well sorted for downhill on this bike. I was getting bucked around a lot on square edged hits no matter what I did to the suspension. Geometry is more important than suspension performance to me so it is no way a deal breaker but I think this could be improved upon (or my shock tuning sharpened???).

    Third goes to the HD. Donít take third as this bike didnít handle downhill well because it did. It is just third in comparison to the two bikes above which are great descenders. I will start with the pros first. I cannot say enough about the rear suspension action. The rear end on this bike is just eutopia. It was firm and controlled yet plush. Amazing mid-stroke support for an airshock. I would have liked a bit more ramp at the end of travel but that is a very MINOR request. The back end just inspired confidence on the way down. I would also say this bike takes flight off lips better than any bike I have ridden. It launches you into the air effortlessly and markedly higher than the other two. This made for a very fun ride.

    The reason it slipped to third is that it just felt a bit higher, shorter and less stable going down than the other two bikes. Not by a wide margin but it felt a bit more trail oriented. This also could have had a bit to do with the setup on the bike as well (more trail oriented stem, bars and tires). This thing was still a ripper.

    There is my quick review. I think the best thing I can say about it is next time I am in the market for a new frame, the HD will be in the top one or two slots for consideration. Hands down, the HD offers the least compromises within the all mountain realm (for bikes I have ridden) for someone looking to keep up with their XC buddies and rip it the next day down a steep rocky trail.

    I would really like to try one setup with better tires and cockpit at some point for a better comparison.

    On a side note, I really couldnít tell a difference between the carbon on the HD and the aluminum on every other bike I have ridden. Not sure if it is a bit placebo or if my butt isnít as sensitive to the deadening sensation carbon provides. However, I have no hesitance in buying a carbon frame that is well designed.

    Cheers to the Ibis guys who were great in talking about the bike and getting me setup!

    thanks for the great writeup.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl
    Has someone been able to test ride both?
    Good to see a direct ride experience comparison, and reviews of the HD ride compared with the alu version Nomads and even much longer travel 7.5 inch travel Uzzi VPP. It sounds like carbon fiber didn't magically transform the VPP suspension to be competitive with DWL quality.

    The XC race length stem on the HD is puzzling. I guess Ibis is showcasing the HD as a crossover bike. The frame certainly is as light as many aluminum 4 inch travel XC bikes. And more experience DH oriented riders can look past the long stem fit position. Maybe the demo team could carry some 70mm stems to give riders a moderately shorter stem choice for more AM/FR oriented riders.

    The HD is off to a raving review start!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    It was a large mojo. The stem looked like a 100mm or so. I am 6'1 and 205 with gear.

    The man himself set me up on the HD and actually made the rear a bit softer than normal due to the shock pump crapping out towards the end of the adjustments. They may say it likes more sag but it doesn't seem to cope with the less air to achieve that sag at the end of stroke as well as the VPP (not abhorent though as I still feel it has the best suspension action of the bunch - everything is a compromise. I also always blow through rp23's too easily on every frame I have ridden them on). The reason for my conclusion is I don't think I really pushed it too hard and used all of the travel on the bike. This could also have been due to a setup issue with too little air (who knows). It was just a quick test ride so take all of my comments with a grain of salt.

    It is a great bike and I really enjoyed it. I am sure you will not be dissapointed. Like I said, I would consider getting one myself. There really aren't too many compromises with this frame.

    Edit: I would also take this over the Firebird without hesitation. I think IBIS did themselves a huge disservice with how they setup their bikes. I am sure a proper setup would narrow if not almost eliminate the descending gap between the two frames from a geometry/feel perspective. Combine this with the better suspension and really good climbing and I would take it over the Pivot. And the Pivot is d*** ugly.
    Just like the standard Mojo's I'm betting it performs even awesome(r) with a custom tuned shock, some of the things you didn't like about the mojo (bottom out, sag level, etc) is cured with a PUSH tuned shock. You want to run deep sag on the Mojo just like your Uzzi, it makes a big difference in the ride quality. Unfortunately with the stock RP23's they wallow in the midstroke and bottom out more easily with the deeper sag until you have PUSH tune it.

    They should of put you on a XL with a 50mm stem without a doubt, Ibis seems to be able create some awesome frames but seems to have no idea how to setup a bike NON XC.

    OR they are heavily trying to market to their XC riders, putting the mutanoraptor 2.4's, the long stem, the triple chain ring,. the garbage crankbro wheels, etc etc, to make sure that it pedals nicely. I bet the last thing they want is for people to get on a HD and think that they don't need such a long travel bike since it doesn't pedal well. If so it would make sense to put on the fast rolling tires and the long stem etc so the xc guys figure hey why not have the extra travel it still pedals just as nicely.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Just like the standard Mojo's I'm betting it performs even awesome(r) with a custom tuned shock, some of the things you didn't like about the mojo (bottom out, sag level, etc) is cured with a PUSH tuned shock. You want to run deep sag on the Mojo just like your Uzzi, it makes a big difference in the ride quality. Unfortunately with the stock RP23's they wallow in the midstroke and bottom out more easily with the deeper sag until you have PUSH tune it.

    They should of put you on a XL with a 50mm stem without a doubt, Ibis seems to be able create some awesome frames but seems to have no idea how to setup a bike NON XC.

    OR they are heavily trying to market to their XC riders, putting the mutanoraptor 2.4's, the long stem, the triple chain ring,. the garbage crankbro wheels, etc etc, to make sure that it pedals nicely. I bet the last thing they want is for people to get on a HD and think that they don't need such a long travel bike since it doesn't pedal well. If so it would make sense to put on the fast rolling tires and the long stem etc so the xc guys figure hey why not have the extra travel it still pedals just as nicely.
    I think I would agree with everything you stated. I believe I am a minority in the market in how I like my bikes setup. They are catering to the masses who really should still be on a Mojo; hence the XC build.

    I would love to try an XL with a 50mm stem. I would just be concerned that the seattube would be too long. This would lengthen the WB and keep a respectable reach. Also, a push bottom out bumper and slightly higher HSC would fix the bottom out problem. That is why I didn't really see it as an issue.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    I think I would agree with everything you stated. I believe I am a minority in the market in how I like my bikes setup. They are catering to the masses who really should still be on a Mojo; hence the XC build.

    I would love to try an XL with a 50mm stem. I would just be concerned that the seattube would be too long. This would lengthen the WB and keep a respectable reach. Also, a push bottom out bumper and slightly higher HSC would fix the bottom out problem. That is why I didn't really see it as an issue.
    Right on, I feel exactly the same.

    At 6" tall I don't think the seattube would be an issue unless you were trying to run that 9" seat dropper.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    I think IBIS did themselves a huge disservice with how they setup their bikes.... ...And the Pivot is d*** ugly.
    Agreed on both counts.

    The HD should not be demo'd with anything over a 90mm stem, and even that's a bit much.

    As for Pivot aesthetics... They are not good looking bikes IMO. They lack the graceful lines of a Mojo, or the brutal utilitarian appeal of a 5-Spot. In the end, they just look like a kit of tubes built around a DW-link spec. They may ride lovely but they're not visually appealing in the least.
    - -benja- -

  29. #29
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    I think every stem longer than 70mm is not suiting the HD. It is a really rad bike and no xc racing bike.
    I will order mine asap after I've chosen my frame size....

  30. #30
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    My buddy is looking at a Mojo. Would a Mojo HD hold up to a aggressive 250 lb AM rider?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr
    My buddy is looking at a Mojo. Would a Mojo HD hold up to a aggressive 250 lb AM rider?
    yes.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by meph
    yes.
    Now that is convincing.

    I wish the HD came with ISCG tabs for a HammerSchmidt.
    Last edited by kntr; 05-19-2010 at 08:44 AM.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr
    Now that is convincing.

    I wish the HD came with ISCG tabs for a HammerSchmidt.
    HammerSchmidt won't work good with the Mojo. The DWL is not designed for it.

  34. #34
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    pssh tough decision... how about the mojo sl or the mojo hd...? $100 bucks more...?! this is my new dilemma!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrow209
    this is my new dilemma!
    Get one of each. No dilemma.
    08 Ibis Mojo SL
    09 Ibis Tranny SingleSpeed

  36. #36
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    haha i wish! but alas, i lack the funds of such a grand purchase and can pick only but one frame!

    sorry for the thread hijack...!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl
    HammerSchmidt won't work good with the Mojo. The DWL is not designed for it.
    Who cares...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr
    Who cares...

    I know you don't

  39. #39
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    I hear the Mojo HD is not coming out till late summer. What is the word?

  40. #40
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    They are out now, but you might not be able to get your hands on one till then.

  41. #41
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    My buddy is 6'4" and 240 lb. What size do you guys recommend? Anyone know a shop with a L or XL in stock?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr
    I hear the Mojo HD is not coming out till late summer. What is the word?
    Patience.
    There's a feeling I get
    When I look to the West
    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  43. #43
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    I think Cal Coast Bikes has an X-large Vitamin P on the wall.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Just like the standard Mojo's I'm betting it performs even awesome(r) with a custom tuned shock, some of the things you didn't like about the mojo (bottom out, sag level, etc) is cured with a PUSH tuned shock. You want to run deep sag on the Mojo just like your Uzzi, it makes a big difference in the ride quality. Unfortunately with the stock RP23's they wallow in the midstroke and bottom out more easily with the deeper sag until you have PUSH tune it.

    They should of put you on a XL with a 50mm stem without a doubt, Ibis seems to be able create some awesome frames but seems to have no idea how to setup a bike NON XC.

    OR they are heavily trying to market to their XC riders, putting the mutanoraptor 2.4's, the long stem, the triple chain ring,. the garbage crankbro wheels, etc etc, to make sure that it pedals nicely. I bet the last thing they want is for people to get on a HD and think that they don't need such a long travel bike since it doesn't pedal well. If so it would make sense to put on the fast rolling tires and the long stem etc so the xc guys figure hey why not have the extra travel it still pedals just as nicely.
    Why do you say the Crank Brothers wheels are garbage? They having some issues? I just got my HD with the Iodines and they look great, but only been on a few rides.

    Greg

  45. #45
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    I've had a few friends who destroyed the rims, everything on them is proprietary, they're heavy, and I know that they had a lot of wheels with rear hubs that would literally just implode, although they might of fixed that issue, but if I recall, it was a big issue.

    For the money there are better wheels out there without the weirdo one-off spokes and are lighter, and stronger.

    Saying that I rode a set on a Blur LTC and they were very stiff, I'll give them that, but I think most people are just attracted to the fancy colors and look that they have. I've never delt with Crankbrothers wheel service department but I know I've had some real annoying issues everytime I have sent in my seat dropper, the people there did not instill any confidence after dropping the ball time after time.

    I'm a huge fan of the Easton Havens, although they run a proprietary rim and hub, at least if you break a spoke you're not screwed, and they're way lighter with equal strength and cheaper at that.

    If you already have a set, enjoy them. I'm sure the majority of the riders on them like them.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I've had a few friends who destroyed the rims, everything on them is proprietary, they're heavy, and I know that they had a lot of wheels with rear hubs that would literally just implode, although they might of fixed that issue, but if I recall, it was a big issue.

    For the money there are better wheels out there without the weirdo one-off spokes and are lighter, and stronger.

    Saying that I rode a set on a Blur LTC and they were very stiff, I'll give them that, but I think most people are just attracted to the fancy colors and look that they have. I've never delt with Crankbrothers wheel service department but I know I've had some real annoying issues everytime I have sent in my seat dropper, the people there did not instill any confidence after dropping the ball time after time.

    I'm a huge fan of the Easton Havens, although they run a proprietary rim and hub, at least if you break a spoke you're not screwed, and they're way lighter with equal strength and cheaper at that.

    If you already have a set, enjoy them. I'm sure the majority of the riders on them like them.
    Thanks for the info Yody.

    I had ordered I9 wheels, but they were not going to be available at the time my HD arrived, so I bailed at the last minute and went with the Iodines. I am pretty hard on wheels, so I should know soon if they are going to be problematic.

    I also have the brand new Joplin 4 and hope that they have fixed the issues with sliders.

  47. #47
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    I have a new joplin 4 myslef, its working ok, gets a lil spongy up top frequently but so far hasn't been a big issue, I had the 3 for a year or so, I got the bad service when I sent in the old 3 for the new 4 replacement program, they made a bunch of promises that they failedto deliver on and took an excessive amount of time to ship out the new one

  48. #48
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    So there are a lot of reviews about the Mojo HD, but not much experience with the Nomad Carbon.
    What I seem to be reading is that people aren't altogether ecstatic with the way the Mojo HD descends. It has an air shock, which kinda limits the DH-feel of the bike, something that the Nomad with an RC4 might not suffer from.
    So what do you guys think - pedaling be damned (they obviously both pedal well), what's going to descend rough stuff better? I used to FR and DH a 1st gen Nomad and was really happy until I got a VP Free, but I'm looking for something that can be a middle bike for me. I am as yet still undecided, but I think I'll keep my Mojo SL built up to ~25 lbs, and I have a dedicated DH bike too... I just want a bike for anything from lift assisted DH and jump trails to longish pedals around the Front Range (I only pedal so I can go back down).
    I'd be putting a DHX Air on the Mojo HD and probably the RC4 on the Nomad unless I can get my CCDB adjusted so that it makes the NomadC come alive like it did with my first Nomad.
    Again, those with experience riding the bikes (especially the NomadC!) would be appreciated. Impressions from those who ride more down than up would be even better - performance going down is much more important for me since both bikes climb well.
    I will probably build the bike into the low 30's with a 180mm RC2 TALAS and a double-bash setup.
    Thanks!

  49. #49
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    IMHO, the Mojo HD rocks. Period. Then again I use mine for AM riding, not as a park bike or shuttle Queen. I feel I have an honest opinion, as I also have a Mojo HD and SC Blur XCc in the stable (as well as demo time on the Nomad. My conclusion is that the DW link suspension pedals much better and decends better also, than the VPP2, utilized by both the SC Blur and Nomad. Flat out. So, the choice is yours. Cannot loose either way, depenfing on where you ride. The differences are indeed subtle, but real (unlike steel) !

  50. #50
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    Just like the original mojo, I think you could find somebody who could put a coil shock together for you that will work on the HD. I think its just that most off the shelf coils won't be optimum

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