Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,088

    Ibis Mojo Flex Thread

    Post your comments, rants here.

    I'll start.

    I ride a std Mojo. I weigh 185. Bike is std with exception of Lopes link and a Van RC.
    Front wheel is a Crossmax XL Rear is Hope Pro 2 Mavic 819. I run almost exclusively Maxxis High Rollers front and rear. My previous frame was a Foes FXR (is anything stiffer on the market?) Forks are Lyrik Solo airs.
    In my opinion for my weight the Mojo strikes a very nice balance between stiffness and compliance. The demo bike I rode was crap, but I could see through the poor setup. It ran Nevgals that squirmed, a Fox std 9mm fork and piss poor wheels. Guess what, it felt flexy.
    When I fitted a 10mm through bolt to my Foes it felt way stiffer, so this confirmed to me that wheels builds and tyres had a much greater effect on how stiff (or not) a bike felt on the trail. My first proper FS XC bike was an Intense Tracer. I thought I was being smart by speccing light rims and revolution spokes. The bike felt like crap. Changed to Crossmax XL's and the experience was totally different. So if you own or test ride a Mojo and it feels a bit flexy, have a real good look at the build and be honest about your weight. Is the build up and your riding weight compatible with the kind of riding you do. Don't build it too light, don't compromise on tyres because you want yours to be 25lb, run decent spokes on a well built set of wheels and (my opinion) don't put a 9mm qr fork anywhere near such a capable frame as the Mojo. Finally if your the wrong side of 200lb, get the HD.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,506
    No flex on my SL whatsoever. It's stiffer than the 575 I had and par with my Picth on stiffness - and I'm not gentle on my riding. My brother also have a SL and it is just as good as mine.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,088
    I agree. The 575 was no where near as stiff. My Foes was a bit stiffer. My Mojo compared to another riders Orange 5 and we agreed that the Mojo was stiffer. Compared to my mates DW 5 spot it was hard to tell because his wheels are crap. Mine rode stiffer but was that down to his setup? Don't know, called it a draw.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trojaninsomniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    65
    I've been riding my standard Mojo for a little less than two months. Thus far, I couldn't ask for a better all-around bike. Up front, I'm running a Fox Van 36RC2. Wheel wise, I'm running CKs w/ Stan's Flows......using a 12mm rear hub w/ Azonic Momentum axle. Have ridden the Mojo on a lot of the same trails I've been riding my M6 on.........very minimal flexion.

  5. #5
    YRTRNRSHVY
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    552
    I have no problem with flex at all on my large SL. My only complaint is horrible chain suck.

  6. #6
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,956

    I don't think so

    NZL62 thanks for starting an appropriate thread for it. Sorry if it's long but I feel that since you respect the Forum, Ibis user and Ibis Cycles to bring it out to a proper channel I would give my contribution.

    I have not felt any flex on my original Mojo with original links (well I changed to red). May be I don't know if the frame flex or not but serious I don't care. The bike ride perfect for my riding style. I even experimented with 650b and it work for me as well.

    I originally built mine up around 24 lbs and decided to up the weight to fit the capability of the frame. Ended up with 26.5 lbs bike that ready to take on whatever the trail throw at me. So far the Mojo has saved my butt numerous time with my mistiming on take off and landing. If there's any flex issues it would have shown up.

    OP also spot on about the "other factors" that can contribute to the feel of flexing in the front or rear end. Wheels and tires as well as pressure has a lot to do with it. Then there's fork selections, I'm using Maverick 24mm hub from the very beginning so no problem there.

    If it ain't broke why fix it, I don't care or want to know if the frame flex. What good can come out of it, I'm already fully satisfy about my Mojo built, and how it elevate my riding to the next level. Stiff BB and comfortable frame that response to my input, what more I can ask for.

    I do acknowledge that there are thread(s) about Flex issues. I'm no expert but as mentioned there are more factors to determine and associate the flex feel to any particular parts of the bike.
    Through my experience, the same 5" travel bike can feel different by the tire pressure alone. I pumped my 2.35" tires before to 45psi and it feel harsh and jerky even when the sag was set at 30% the bike feel stiff and disconnected. Comparing to the 26 psi. Lower psi makes suspension feel great and plush, it feel like it had an inch or two of extra travel, but in the corner it feel squirmy it feel like the rear end moved laterally an inch or two. I keep increasing the psi til I can corner without feeling the side wall flexes, which for me at 31 in the front and 33 in the rear.
    And that's just tires. What about other factors before we can even get to the frame and the property of the materials. QR or 10 mm bolts. IMO, it's too easy just to blame it on the rear end flex.

    I'm no stranger to Flex contraversy I own Maverick forks, people who does not own it usually complaint about it to make themselves look like a player. It's a myth. Does not apply to the real world situation, at best very rare occation you encounter the disavantage of the flex in the Mav forks. People who owns them love them and ended up with more than one. Non-owner would find negative things to say and bring out evidence to prove their point but in the end people who use it, love it. I feel same treatment is being practice here.

    My Rant on the other thread was about someone who inappropriately, comment on negative that's not commonly found on Ibis Mojo by most. Until the first rumor, then it's becoming such an issue to some. How can a bike that ride perfectly for them before becoming such a flexy things that they can't live with overnight, if not the aid of rumors. Haters find ways to validates their believes. I made it perfectly clear that a few talented one who demand the most from their frame may want to improve the stiffness, but not most of us. We don't have tune legs and talent like those few.

    My other issue was (I'm sure most will agree with me) Ibis and Ibis forum is very unique. It's a small but global of people who shares the same passion of riding their Ibis bikes. The evidence is all over the forum, by the participations of the owners/founder from Chuck, Hans, and Roxy as well as DW. A guy in Germany is so passionate about the bike he took his time and make the Ibis vid and share with all of us, and many others. I met and talk to Chuck and Roxy at the Interbike we chat a bit, they make you feel welcome. I also interact with Hans and Tom on this site and over the phone. How many companies on this site or others do this, not to mention a bike company. They are passionate enough and care about their product that they want to participate. Do you think it's easy. It takes effort on their crazy schedule to make sure this kind of involvement happens. How many bikes you own you can say I talk to the Makers of your bike.

    Everyone who own an Ibis should know the story about the come back, and where they are today. I'm not at all surprise of the phenomina they have created, what surprise me though it's how they manage to sell them for so little.

    I hope it's not business as usual for most Ibis owner, but it just surprised me that not more people defending that thread. Not only me got red when I read that. We should support Ibis the way they support us. You don't have to own an Ibis to have an Ibis attitude, like one of the slogan I read which was so true too, Those who know, ride a Mojo. Only I wish he lived up to it.

    What's an Ibis attitude? If you have to asked you should be riding something else.

    By the way, the bashing continues with the slingshot theory now. It's awesome when the guy doesn't even have one. Of course I'm a one track mind son of a gun, but that's how I read it.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mojobeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    106

    Tire size and inner rim width

    Don't forget about people running 2.35s on xc rims made for skinny tires and then mistaking the tire squirm for flex.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,942
    Quote Originally Posted by mojobeer
    Don't forget about people running 2.35s on xc rims made for skinny tires and then mistaking the tire squirm for flex.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,896
    Quote Originally Posted by mojobeer
    Don't forget about people running 2.35s on xc rims made for skinny tires and then mistaking the tire squirm for flex.


    +1

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,896
    The Mojo does feel a lil flexy compared to other bikes I've ridden but I've never felt like it made me slower or ruined the ride, its almost gives you MORE traction and a better ride. Its not that the entire bike frame is flexing, it feels more like certain sections of the carbon material flex a lil and take out the high speed hits. Not a terrible soggy lateral flex, the carbon feels more like a spring creating momentum. I don't feel its taken out any precision in the bikes handling. Flexy wheels and oversized tires on narrow wheels and skewer quick releases on forks have felt like flexy trash, but not the carbon frame.

  11. #11
    Dropshot Champ!
    Reputation: redmr2_man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,524
    i think derby made the point in the last thread, there is probably flex in any bike that is sub six pounds and fs.

    Dan's thru bolt rear made most of it go away. Someone with a gopro should do the same test with a regular qr rear and post it for comparison purposes though.

    Glad to see some are open to discussion instead of bandwagon hate. Good job guys.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JockHH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4
    the Mojo makes me go faster up and down the hill with less effort than quite some "stiff" bikes I had before - so who cares for a little 'flex' - wherever that may be? I count it as 'comfort'

    I'd see things different if the flex would slow me down or cause noises rubbing rear tire or brake disk - but it doesn't, at least with Lopes link mounted.

    btw I'm 210 lbs!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,088
    I agree with all the above posters.
    The reason I like the Mojo is probably why I like carbon bars. Flex has such negative connotations in the bike world. Compliance, as in like a steel frame for example, would be a more appropriate term. My Mojo is faster over the hill than my superstiff Foes. Inappropriate
    builds (narrow rims fatter tires) contribute. Many riders demo a bike then dismiss it without considering the build of the demo bike. For those that like the Mojo but worry about stiffness, theres the HD

  14. #14
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,956
    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    i think derby made the point in the last thread, there is probably flex in any bike that is sub six pounds and fs.

    Dan's thru bolt rear made most of it go away. Someone with a gopro should do the same test with a regular qr rear and post it for comparison purposes though.

    Glad to see some are open to discussion instead of bandwagon hate. Good job guys.

    This is a good place to discuss it, absolutely.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,896
    I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't want a stiffer bike like one of the newer Santa Cruz carbon bikes. I like all the attributes of CF and dig the mojo but stiffer would be better, The Blur LTC I rode felt stiffer and still had that compliant carbon feel.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,088
    It is my view that the std and SL Mojo's strike a nice balance between weight and stiffness. In a way it is (sort of) unfortunate that it is such a capable bike and that it gets specced and ridden in way that may not have been part of the original brief. The Mojo HD is the obvious solution and the clear option to put up against a carbon Nomad. I had so many bearing issues with my SC bikes that it is unlikely they will ever figure in my plans again, despite the fact that they have probably solved these issues. I'm not dissing the brand but simply expressing my opinion based on my experience. I think they look awesome but once bitten twice shy as they say and these are big lumps of money we're talking about for these frames. As for my Mojo, I have posted this before, but if my FXR was a 9 on the stiffness scale then I would put the Mojo at 7.5/8 and something flexy like a Commencal Meta 5.5 at a 4. 1-3 reserved for the complete **** that comes out of supermarkets and department stores and 10 reserved for stiff DH bikes like my Brooklyn Racelink.
    Bike choice is very personal, People focus on different attributes; some stiffness, some weight, others plushness. For me the Mojo has been one of the most enjoyable bikes I have evr owned. Even in my own burly build mode, it is still sprightly, engaging and a complete blast to ride.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,942
    Good thread.... My Mojo rides great... it's not stiff as a block of concrete, and boy am I glad! As one poster mentioned above, a little well tuned flex improves the ride, grip, etc. Obsessing over frame stiffness leads people to poor decisions, just like obsessing over light weight parts or anodized colors does. You wouldn't pick a girlfriend based on her bone density, would you?

  18. #18
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,956
    lol, that's an interesting take

  19. #19
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,007

    Frame "Stiffness" for MTBs = "Straight" Frames for Roadies

    Frame stiffness is partially a product of the rider's imagination. Yes, obviously one frame is more or less stiff then another in a whole variety of ways, but the truth is that modern FS designs are complex enough that nailing down how and why one frame rides against another is largely up to the whims of the rider, their lifetime of riding and what they had for breakfast.

    The points made about tire and rim size are spot on. A crappy combo of tire to rim will make the stiffest frame feel like a squirrelly noodle. Add in suspension setup, frame fit etc and so on.

    I compare this to road nerds (been one,) who demand that their frames are straight to 1/10000" and if their frames are off by some tiny amount they are worthless and ride like crap. BullSh!t. The human brain, when placed on a bike does all sorts of funny things, much of which is imagine what they hope, wish, and fear the bike will ride like. The brain is also able to make a poorly built or poorly designed bike feel like a million bux if it doesn't know any better.

    Bottom line: if you feel like your bike is too flexy then you've got a whole list of things to check off before you get to ditching your frame. For 95% of the riders out there a Classic Mojo or SL is plenty stiff. For the rest there's the HD. Scot Nicol is not a small dude and he's not mild on bikes. He wouldn't sell a noodle.
    - -benja- -

  20. #20
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,956
    Thanks for your take on the subject, I think you are right on Benja.

    Funny, I just read another thread of someone complaining that his bike is pulling to the left. Turns out it was the Cannondale with the lefty fork. If you keep staring at the front wheel there's a chance that your brain would be influence by what you see and drift left.

    It's more imagination, then lots of experiments to prove that, I don't know if it would prove the theory of stiffness or the perception of stiffness. It may prove that some thing move. If your mind is in the wrong place nothing much you can do to change that.

    You've mention road bike. I have a steel road bike and was shopping for a carbon road bikes, cant believe how small the chainstay and seatstays are. It's plenty stiff and durable, enough for riders to ride at high speed over some nasty bumps on the road with no suspension.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,088
    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon
    . You wouldn't pick a girlfriend based on her bone density, would you?
    No... bone density AND straight teeth lol

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,942

    Wink

    Haha. Yeah, bone density is hard to gauge, but I always give my ladies a good dental exam. Couldn't agree more with comments on the effects of imagination and expectation. I bet there are plenty of previously ecstatic mojo owners who are drooling over HD's and so now their Mojo's too flexy... I'm hoping I'll be able to avoid falling into that camp...LOL....but the HD does look sweet and the extra travel and slack HA would be nice on some of my local spots.
    On a more practical note I can say from my experience that my mojo is more laterally & torsionally stiff than an '07 575 with same build (killer bike), but less stiff than a late 90's Ventana (awesome build quality and stiffness coupled with mush mush suspension design), or an '08 Enduro SL (capable but truck-like). An '03 Stumpy FSR was too crappy in other ways to be able to tell. But the Mojo outrides all of them hands down. The only one that could approach it in terms of all around speed, feel, fun, and capability in the gnar was the less stiff yeti. The enduro could plow down rough steeps, or launch air, and see you through to the other side, but the overall experience relative to the mojo was like driving a semi compared to an AWD Porsche. (oK, at least what I imagine the Porsche would be like) The mojo's saved me from so many lapses in judgement and technique that would have resulted in a low side faceplant on a lot of others I've ridden.

  23. #23
    Gentleman Loser
    Reputation: Count Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    421

    My experience

    I had an original Mojo with the separate upper links. At the time, I also owned a Maverick Durance. The two bikes were setup exactly the same, with the same forks and Mavic 819-based wheels, including 10mm RWS axles.

    I found that in certain circumstances - going really fast, or in heavy terrain - it was harder to hold a cornering line on the Mojo than on the Durance. My initial feeling was that I couldn't get the back wheel to track. I followed up quantitatively by measuring both bikes back to back on controlled test tracks. The Mojo was, for me, less neutral, harder to control, and slower downhill.

    Ultimately, this relegated the Mojo to a garage decoration. The Mojo was a better pedaler (maybe one of the best) but for me it did not handle as well as the Maverick.

    Until the advent of the Lopes Link, which I assume is now standard, there was an obvious structural problem with the drive side seatstay 'floating' and not triangulated to the chainstay.

    I sold the Mojo frame because it was such a disappointment. I made the sale a few months before the Lopes Link came out.

    I'm only writing this because I think that discounting the stiffness issue is just being too generous to Ibis. To their credit, though, the Lopes Link seems to have really fixed the problem, and it is a sweet little forging.

    I think the new HD is a neat bike. I wish that they'd made a bike something in the middle between the original Mojo and the HD. Say, the HD's weight and stiffness with geometry similar to, but slightly more slack than, the Mojo.

    Tom O

  24. #24
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    Solo contendre
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,669
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    I followed up quantitatively by measuring both bikes back to back on controlled test tracks.
    How did you make the test quantitative? How was it controlled?

  25. #25
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,956
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero
    I had an original Mojo with the separate upper links. At the time, I also owned a Maverick Durance. The two bikes were setup exactly the same, with the same forks and Mavic 819-based wheels, including 10mm RWS axles.

    I found that in certain circumstances - going really fast, or in heavy terrain - it was harder to hold a cornering line on the Mojo than on the Durance. My initial feeling was that I couldn't get the back wheel to track. I followed up quantitatively by measuring both bikes back to back on controlled test tracks. The Mojo was, for me, less neutral, harder to control, and slower downhill.

    Ultimately, this relegated the Mojo to a garage decoration. The Mojo was a better pedaler (maybe one of the best) but for me it did not handle as well as the Maverick.

    Until the advent of the Lopes Link, which I assume is now standard, there was an obvious structural problem with the drive side seatstay 'floating' and not triangulated to the chainstay.

    I sold the Mojo frame because it was such a disappointment. I made the sale a few months before the Lopes Link came out.

    I'm only writing this because I think that discounting the stiffness issue is just being too generous to Ibis. To their credit, though, the Lopes Link seems to have really fixed the problem, and it is a sweet little forging.

    I think the new HD is a neat bike. I wish that they'd made a bike something in the middle between the original Mojo and the HD. Say, the HD's weight and stiffness with geometry similar to, but slightly more slack than, the Mojo.

    Tom O
    I do agree that Mojo is a great pedaling bike, Maverick 3-Pivot Monolink is by far the best climbing bike I've ridden. Smooth or technical it just climb great.

    Never done a back to back test Mojo and Durance, but done plenty of ML7-Mojo and ML8-Mojo. Mojo happily sits somewhere in the middle as far as handling just as quick and nimble as the ML7, and showing just as much forgiveness as ML8. At the time, I have conventional triple ring set up on all bikes. Now, my Mojo is 2x, and ML7(seven Duo) is Hammerschmidt, soon I'll do the same with ML8. It would be interesting to do another back to back.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •