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  1. #1
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    Ibis 741 wheels - How tough are they?

    I am looking at getting a new set of 27.5 wheels for my HDR .
    I am really leaning to the Ibis wheel system as I think they should be lighter then 27.5 Flow wheels on Hope hubs I have at the moment..But would they be stronger?

    I don't usually tweak wheels but I want to build a bike I can do the odd 24hr , enduro and multi-stage day event on. My HDR must do it all with just with a wheel swap-out, so these will be my Trail, 24hr and Multi-stage wheels (I have a set of Stans Crest for events like Cape Epic )

    Where would they sit in the Enve lineup ?
    If I just go on weigh comparison I would think they would be in the same market as the M70 series ? Or are we looking at M70 weight with M90 strength ? Meaning I can use them for some DH and enduro?

  2. #2
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    Stress tested the 741 wheels....

    See link for my experience. While you might take this as "trashed the wheel," I see it as "Torqued the wheel with enough force to break half the spokes and the fork(!) but the rim was undamaged." So, IMHO they're pretty damn tough!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Stress tested the 741 wheels....

    See link for my experience. While you might take this as "trashed the wheel," I see it as "Torqued the wheel with enough force to break half the spokes and the fork(!) but the rim was undamaged." So, IMHO they're pretty damn tough!
    DrewBird - I also ride a new Nomad 3, and I'm looking to upgrade my wheels from the stock WTB/DT 350s. I know that the 741s are tough, but what do you think about them overall? In your opinion, are there any downsides to the super wide rims other than the need to pick round tire profile? What do you think of the hubs, is the low engagement rate (15 degrees) noticeable in combination with the low bb height on the Nomad if you need to ratchet the pedals on tech climbs?

  4. #4
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    The 741's are super tough. Unless you're a total hack and just outright suck at riding, you will NOT break them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davemk View Post
    DrewBird - I also ride a new Nomad 3, and I'm looking to upgrade my wheels from the stock WTB/DT 350s. I know that the 741s are tough, but what do you think about them overall? In your opinion, are there any downsides to the super wide rims other than the need to pick round tire profile? What do you think of the hubs, is the low engagement rate (15 degrees) noticeable in combination with the low bb height on the Nomad if you need to ratchet the pedals on tech climbs?
    Only downside to these on the Nomad is also the upside: they're wide. Wide rim and tire in combo with the slack HTA on the Nomad can make for a pretty slow-handling bike. I initially set my 741s up with a Magic Mary 2.35, which was ~2.55"(!) on the wide rims. That at low pressure made for a slow-rolling and slow-turning rig, though grip was phenomenal. Very confidence-inspring on steep and rough DH-type trails, but slow climbing and not a lot of snap side-to-side in tighter twisties. Since then I've gone to a Minion DHF/DHRII combo (~2.3" on the 741) and I find that much more agreeable. Still very capable, but rolls faster and gets on edge better. So, only downside is that fat tires get REALLY FAT on these rims, and in some cases that can adversely affect handling.

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    +1 on the 741s. I was on a loaner set for two months of riding and racing Enduros including the Whistler EWS and park. Absolutely bomber setup, I would think they're equivalent to the M70 from Enve in purpose.

    I've got the same tire combos as Drewbird, Magic Mary SGs for really rocky races and park as the SG is the only casing I trust at the moment, Minion DHF EXO f/r for all other riding. Our local AM trail (my favourite trail oaf anywhere) has a lot of off-camber rock spiny bits and the DHF on 741 holds so well.

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    ANd I think you know the answer already but if you're looking for more POE or even beefier rims (not necessary for your HDR) then building up Derby HDs would be the way to go.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the comments ... Seems lli will be going with the wheels (will get more enjoyment) .. was a choice between a Iphone 6 or a set of wheels , they about the same price here.

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    You are much more likely to bend the iphone than the 741s, that's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    You are much more likely to bend the iphone than the 741s, that's for sure.
    for-sure , lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    You are much more likely to bend the iphone than the 741s, that's for sure.
    Haha! Definitely.

    DH, you might as well sell those Crest wheels now...LOL... a month on the wide carbon and you won't want to ride them again.

    While not exactly the same rim, my Derby light layup front and HD rear have withstood a year of rock strikes that would have trashed the bead on my Flows many times over. I'm sure the Ibis rims are similar.

    Off topic, but if any of you guys want a big fat melon of a tire that still rolls and turns in with pep, try a Geax Goma 2.4... they're amazingly nimble feeling for a 2.5" wide tire, which is what they measure on the wide rims. Mucho fun. They don't penetrate deep loose surfaces quite as well as the Minions, but they feel better on slick rock, have higher volume, feel like a smaller, turny-er tire even though they're bigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Off topic, but if any of you guys want a big fat melon of a tire that still rolls and turns in with pep, try a Geax Goma 2.4... they're amazingly nimble feeling for a 2.5" wide tire, which is what they measure on the wide rims. Mucho fun. They don't penetrate deep loose surfaces quite as well as the Minions, but they feel better on slick rock, have higher volume, feel like a smaller, turny-er tire even though they're bigger.
    Is it bigger than WTB Vigilante? That tire is massively tall, 28.25" on a Derby. I feel like I am pushing my luck riding it in a Vengeance, there is no more than a hair of space between the knobs and the brace.

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    How are the hubs ? I wish I could have something like Hope's which had higher engagement. They're $200 less than the Fattie's and a little wider but the Fattie's come with DT 350's with upgraded stars ratchets which seems worth the extra $200. What's the experience with the hubs so far ?

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    What are thos fatties wheels you refer to ?

    Ibis is changing the rear hub to DT 350 and increasing from $1299 to $1449 - you can find the new ones in 29" size already, but they still show as 1299 in 741s (must be left over stock).

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    I should have said The Specialize Roval Carbon Fatties.

    Glad to hear the Ibis wheels will have the same rear hub setup. Seems like $150 sell spent. They're then within $50 of the Specialized but an extra 5mm wide.

  16. #16
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    Ibis wheels are plenty bulletproof. Glad they've gone to DTs since the previous hubs were pretty sloppy. Re M60s, my opinion having ridden both is ENVEs noticeably stiffer overall. And around half a pound lighter. Neither are deal-killers to me because of the price difference. On tires my experience is you can get away with lighter tires but at higher pressure. Till we got hit with the "storm of the decade" I was riding front Nic and rear Racing Ralph at 20-24 psi and only occasionally getting any rear squish on tight berms and off-camber landings. (Rider error!) The round profile of the Ralphs was pretty cool and I have to think tire makers are going to come out with new "fattie-optimized" lines. For me the DHFs and HRIIs were overkill, heavy and slow although you can run them at 15 psi and they never smoosh. But I don't ride spiky rocky stuff here and defer to Robnow and Drewbird's judgment on Marys, etc.
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  17. #17
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    getting a set of 741 rims built to sour apple kings by Dave Thomas as we speak. I'll circle back with comparo's to the two wheelsets I'm running now...kings on enve am's and kings on Nox built by dave (all 27.5).

  18. #18
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    Ibis 741 wheels - How tough are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by riderup View Post
    getting a set of 741 rims built to sour apple kings by Dave Thomas as we speak. I'll circle back with comparo's to the two wheelsets I'm running now...kings on enve am's and kings on Nox built by dave (all 27.5).
    Nice. Really interested in what you think relative to the Nox and Enves
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  19. #19
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    The color alone should improve your ride...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    Ibis wheels are plenty bulletproof. Glad they've gone to DTs since the previous hubs were pretty sloppy.
    I'm curious how a hub can be sloppy? They either work or they don't. The either have high engagement or they don't. Bearing play?

    Which is it because the ones on my 928s are actually pretty nice. Not much on bling factor but they roll and the rear is actually rather quiet compared to Hadley or King. ~500 miles and I haven't had to touch them.

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    I think the complaint is with relatively few engagement points, so ratchet-pedaling or getting back on the gas they can feel sloppy. I have some first-gem 741s and I have no complaints, but I guess we're all sensitive in different ways.

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    They are not nearly as bad as a shimano or Hope hub w/ regards to engagement but I don't know the numbers. I prefer a high engagement hub as well but the Ibis hubs seem to be somewhere in the middle. Certainly not sloppy but to me that implies something else.

    I think they are made by Joytech which is a Tawain outfit that churns out a lot of hubs, including Novatech which are comparable to many aftermarket hubs in terms of quality. Maybe someone in the know can confirm.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    They are not nearly as bad as a shimano or Hope hub w/ regards to engagement but I don't know the numbers. I prefer a high engagement hub as well but the Ibis hubs seem to be somewhere in the middle. Certainly not sloppy but to me that implies something else.
    The Speed Tuned hubs we were using had 24 tooth ratchets, the DT 350 (with special 54 tooth ratchet) hubs we use now have 6 degree engagement.

    H

  24. #24
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    Yeah that's it... The first gen I looked at, I could hand rotate back the freehub without immediate engagement, there was a relatively lot of play. Nothing fatal but it was noticeable and made me think twice. Went ahead and ordered a set anyway, lo and behold they showed up with the DTs...
    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I think the complaint is with relatively few engagement points, so ratchet-pedaling or getting back on the gas they can feel sloppy. I have some first-gem 741s and I have no complaints, but I guess we're all sensitive in different ways.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    The Speed Tuned hubs we were using had 24 tooth ratchets, the DT 350 (with special 54 tooth ratchet) hubs we use now have 6 degree engagement.

    H
    I was checking these out on your website the other day. It looks like only the rear hub is DT and the front is still "unbranded". Is this correct?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    The color alone should improve your ride...
    that's what I'm counting on. at least a little better than the mango's!

    speaking of which, I rode late yesterday and dropped PSI again...ran 17f / 16r on the Nox rims and hans dampf 2.35's (I'm about 180 without gear - 190ish with) and it was crazy. the tires were working really well. I didn't do anything big jumpy / droppy on yesterday's ride but it didn't feel as if I would have had any problems. crazy. Can't wait to ride the 741's.

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    Little comment on the low pressure,

    I've ridden the 741s for an extended test... Also ordered and arriving tomorrow so experimentation shall begin.

    Now my question, low pressure, within reason, is great and decreases rolling resistance on moderately rough terrain. Also, really does make the bike feel like its for an extra 10mm+ of travel. Now the however, on long straights or fireroad climbs won't the tire be slower?

    I'm going to experiment soon and will know first hand, but I'm thinking there has to be a sweet spot. Will set at 24r/22f for starts, I'm 172lbs dry and maybe 185lbs geared up with water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m3the01 View Post
    Little comment on the low pressure,
    on long straights or fireroad climbs won't the tire be slower?

    I'm going to experiment soon and will know first hand, but I'm thinking there has to be a sweet spot. Will set at 24r/22f for starts, I'm 172lbs dry and maybe 185lbs geared up with water.
    Yes. It's as you would suspect. When commuting on the road I end up at about 23 psi rear for an efficient feel, but it still works off road too. I'll drop it a few psi off road (about 18-20 psi) if doing primarily trails.

    The strangest thing is when you are running low pressure on the road and feel it's a bit slow and then the sensation completely reverses the moment you hit a bumpy trail. It actually feels like the bike accelerates since it's faster than you are expecting from experience. On rough stuff it's not subtle, I suspect most people will notice it.

    H

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Yes. It's as you would suspect. When commuting on the road I end up at about 23 psi rear for an efficient feel, but it still works off road too. I'll drop it a few psi off road (about 18-20 psi) if doing primarily trails.
    H
    How much do you weigh? U being form Ibis, obviously know best but 18-20 psi on the rear? Damn, rockier terrain u bump it up a bit?

  30. #30
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    True for the set I purchased 6 weeks ago but things may have changed...
    Quote Originally Posted by ATLRB View Post
    I was checking these out on your website the other day. It looks like only the rear hub is DT and the front is still "unbranded". Is this correct?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    Yeah that's it... The first gen I looked at, I could hand rotate back the freehub without immediate engagement, there was a relatively lot of play. Nothing fatal but it was noticeable and made me think twice. Went ahead and ordered a set anyway, lo and behold they showed up with the DTs...
    I'm curious how many hubs you have held in your hand and rotated backwards? DTs are not considered a high engagement hub either. Either way, low engagement does not equal sloppy. Unless you ride King, I9, or Hadley all the rest are in the same boat so unless there is bearing play I guess they are all sloppy?

    Sorry to nit pick the point but I believe it important to anyone deciding whether to pay up for the DTs. They are nice hubs for sure and easy to maintain but they still are not what most consider a high engagement hub.

  32. #32
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    Well, actually, I've put Kings and Hadleys on several of my bikes, so yes, maybe my basis of comparison is skewed. I agree on DTs not being highest (more mid-range) but have you actually tested the original unbrandeds on the 41s? There's quite a gap between them and the DTs, as Hans notes elsewhere. I admit sloppy is a qualitative term but if you Google sloppy hub engagement you get quite a few mtb hits. I doubt that if we were in the same room comparing these hubs we'd wind up arguing about the differences...

    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I'm curious how many hubs you have held in your hand and rotated backwards? DTs are not considered a high engagement hub either. Either way, low engagement does not equal sloppy. Unless you ride King, I9, or Hadley all the rest are in the same boat so unless there is bearing play I guess they are all sloppy?

    Sorry to nit pick the point but I believe it important to anyone deciding whether to pay up for the DTs. They are nice hubs for sure and easy to maintain but they still are not what most consider a high engagement hub.
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  33. #33
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    This was my experience first time out on the 41s. I was riding a demo and altho the tires felt a little soft (NNic front, RaRa rear) I figured I'll air 'em up for the long climb. Once I hit dirt I forgot all about it. Up on top I had more fun than a tick in a dog's ear. So when I got back down I decided out of curiosity to check the pressure. 16 front, 15 rear! I was blown away. I'm 200 lbs with gear and never ride below 28 even with tubeless...

    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Yes. It's as you would suspect. When commuting on the road I end up at about 23 psi rear for an efficient feel, but it still works off road too. I'll drop it a few psi off road (about 18-20 psi) if doing primarily trails.

    The strangest thing is when you are running low pressure on the road and feel it's a bit slow and then the sensation completely reverses the moment you hit a bumpy trail. It actually feels like the bike accelerates since it's faster than you are expecting from experience. On rough stuff it's not subtle, I suspect most people will notice it.

    H
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post

    Sorry to nit pick the point but I believe it important to anyone deciding whether to pay up for the DTs. They are nice hubs for sure and easy to maintain but they still are not what most consider a high engagement hub.
    Posting so readers will be clear that we have 54t/ 6 degree engagement:
    You're right... which is why we upgraded the DT hub from the stock 18t ratchet to 54t / 6 degree engagement, it's high enough for most people who care about speed of engagement. The stock 18 t was not impressive. They also have a 36t upgrade that is OK. 54T is pretty kick a$$. It costs more and is hard to get, but seems worth it to us.

    H

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    I'm using the 741 wheels from about a month with two enduro races on them. I installed an Onza Citius 2.4 at 20psi in front and an Onza Ibex 2.4 at 22psi in the rear. They are really stiff, strong and light, and the extra grip really add you lot of confidence/speed, specially when you incline the bike and push it for turning. I've never been so happy with a wheelset.

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    I'm considering picking up a set of these wheels as well. Does the wider rim allow the use of a less aggressive rear tire? I currently run Maxxis HR2s front and rear. I've heard that the profile HR2 isn't the best suited to the wide rims and everyone seems to recommend the DHF instead.

    What about running an Ardent rear with a DHF front just for a bit extra pedalling efficiency? I would imagine that the traction boost from the wide rims and lower pressures should offset the less aggressive tread pattern of the Ardent tire?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    Well, actually, I've put Kings and Hadleys on several of my bikes, so yes, maybe my basis of comparison is skewed. I agree on DTs not being highest (more mid-range) but have you actually tested the original unbrandeds on the 41s? There's quite a gap between them and the DTs, as Hans notes elsewhere. I admit sloppy is a qualitative term but if you Google sloppy hub engagement you get quite a few mtb hits. I doubt that if we were in the same room comparing these hubs we'd wind up arguing about the differences...
    No, just the 928s. And I care enough about high engagement hubs to have considered unlacing the wheelset (I did take apart the front to see what brand spokes and nipples they were using) to lace in Hadleys. I'm just offering a counter viewpoint at the risk of being labeled an Ibis fanboi that my experience with the original hub hasn't been that bad. In fact, far from sloppy.

    Ratcheting backwards on a log or while climbing a steep technical rocky trail is primarily where I notice the difference but I've been pleasantly surprised by the original hub. And like I said, it's not anything like a Hope or Shimano but I don't know the numbers on speed of engagement.

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    U want a nice round profile tire, remember on the berms u need some good traction.

    I rode the dhfs, but I went with the 2.35 bontrager xr4 team edition. They save a 100g per tire, are high volume, very nice round profile. I've ridden the 26" version and will report back once the xr4s are mounted up.

    As per the DT 350 w/ the 6 degree engagement. I find whenever I go away from kings I always come back. I luv to pull the seals every once and a while and cleanup the bearings. Switched over to the ceramic kings and damn they roll nice... That's a highly subjective one though.

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    Ibis 741 wheels - How tough are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmrocks View Post
    I'm considering picking up a set of these wheels as well. Does the wider rim allow the use of a less aggressive rear tire? I currently run Maxxis HR2s front and rear. I've heard that the profile HR2 isn't the best suited to the wide rims and everyone seems to recommend the DHF instead.

    What about running an Ardent rear with a DHF front just for a bit extra pedalling efficiency? I would imagine that the traction boost from the wide rims and lower pressures should offset the less aggressive tread pattern of the Ardent tire?
    Yes, definitely, you're on the right track. I've been really surprised by the traction I'm getting out of an Ardent 2.25 on the rear, and enjoying the faster roll. I haven't given it a completely thorough thrashing yet, but early impressions are that it will be a favorite, at least on the rear and in certain conditions.

    I've run a DHF in front which still has its crazy good penetration and grip on all surfaces, but if you're an aggressive leaner you may feel like you're getting on the edges a little too early.

    Funny, but seems like I've seen more people saying the HR2 is better on wide rims...including some pro racers and guys like Salespunk who ride a lot of top gear hard. Tires are like flavors of ice cream though. I haven't tried a HR2 myself but will get around to it when something wears out.

    At the moment, with trail conditions nice and tacky, I'm thinking about trying an Ardent 2.4 up front, to scale down a little bit from the massive Goma I'm running currently.

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    It's startling what you can get away with on the rear. Before the rains I was running Racing Ralphs on the back with so much stick I was tempted to try slicks! Taller knobs now (HRFs) in the mud but again, lots of stability and grip. For seasonal riding on most terrain you'll be able to go light...

    Quote Originally Posted by cmrocks View Post
    I'm considering picking up a set of these wheels as well. Does the wider rim allow the use of a less aggressive rear tire? ....
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