Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 103

Thread: Ibis and 650B?

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881

    Ibis and 650B?

    So I hate to say it but its apparent that 26" is on its way out. In the next few years if you want the latest technology you will not be buying a 26" bike. I'm not a fan of the bigger wheels but this is the truth unfortunately.

    So saying that, has Ibis missed the 650B train this year? Or are they possibly taking cues from the SL-R and then the Ripley Releases and keeping tight mouth until the new bike is ready to ship if there is one? I know the HD is 650B convertible but thats not nearly the same as a 650 specific bike.

    I'm not looking forward to having to deal with the bigger wheel size but bikes like the new Santa Cruz Bronson have started to sway my feelings on it. That is a bad machine. I still love my HD and ever since owning it since late 2010 I have not had other bike envy, but I'm hoping Ibis gives me a reason to start saving my pennies for something new. And if you guys do, please make it 36MM stanchion compatible
    Last edited by Yody; 04-28-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    621
    The SC Bronson is a big deal--two guys from the shop I bought my SL-R from both went down to Santa Cruz and rode the Bronson around a couple of weekends back. One has a Mojo HD, the other an SC Nomad. They both ordered up new Bronsons.

    I re-watched the Ripley video interviewing Hans and Colin about the Ripley, and I think that the fact that they had originally spec'ed the Ripley as a 26" bike for small and medium and a 29" bike for large and extra-large might be a clue to a 650b version of it being fairly easy to accommodate. However, that probably won't make an enduro-style bike. A response to the Bronson would probably come from the Mojo HD side then. How much would it take to actually make the HD a real 650b bike? A slightly modified rear triangle (and one for the SL-R too?) for more clearance and dropping the BB a bit. The problem I see them having is that this option would slack out the HA a bit and Ibis seems resistant to doing that in general. I don't know how they could do that w/o redoing the mainframe to lower the head tube or by limiting the fork to 160mm.

    Hmmm.
    2013 Ibis Ripley
    2012 Ibis Mojo SL-R
    2009 C'dale Rize 3

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    I'm no expert but I'd assume they would need a whole new bike. People are already converting normal HD's. A specific 650b bike with new technologies would be where its at. I know the molds cost a lot of money, a lot of R+D, and they just released the Ripley finally. But Ibis seems like a successful business. I'm sure there is a way to justify the costs and make money after its all said n done. If the market truly is switching to 27.5" on everything and no longer updating anything 26" (which is what i've been told by more than one) a new HD is inevitable. Its just a matter of when and what

  4. #4
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
    Reputation: pachaven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    760
    Good news Yody. I was driving thru the alley of my LBS and saw a Ibis mule being loaded into Brians van. It had 27's, a coil over and a duel crown. If that can be tested under Lopes and brought to the public soon, I will buy one!!! I miss my DW bikes and an all mountain 27 to use at Snow Summit would be killer.
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Dual crown??

  6. #6
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
    Reputation: pachaven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    760
    Yeah sorry mi inglish es nu tu gud!
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    200
    New triangle and aheadset to gain back a degree or two and that would work well in my book

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    No i meant the bike had a dual crown dh fork on it? Was it a dh bike? Wasnt tryin to correct ur spelling. Lol

  9. #9
    MountainGoat aka OldGoat
    Reputation: pachaven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    760
    I know Yody. We're good. Yes it looked ready for DH use. Again I only got a quick look and it was being loaded into a van. But the good news is that Ibis is testing a 27!!!!
    Vote with your feet.
    No bike is perfect!

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    87
    If 650b is really promising or maybe all marketing hyp. do you think all 26er bikers will just ditch their bikes and get a new one? I mean bikes are not like shoes that you can just change whenever you want unless money is not an issue for you... and besides is 1.5 difference big of a change?

  11. #11
    Mtb Guide
    Reputation: Maverick005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,011
    Sorry to say it but thats the stupiest statement yet! i thought Ibiesians were more intelligent than this!

    Yes 29ers are selling more @ the LBS, big wheels for basically muppet riders, yes theyre are still good 29er riders, but majority of bike purchases whether you like it or not dont spend 10k on a bike, 3k is allot for at least 80% of the mtb market.

    27.5/650b is the next big thing and people esspecially in the US will buy them, honestly look at the trails most of those people ride! Not that they're aren't great trails in the US but majority might as well be riding roads.

    26er will become niche but not lost or outdated for a number of reasons.

    GEO is pretty dialled on 26ers, its taken years! 29ers and 27,5 have growing pains yet!

    Allot of manafactures have allot invested, forks shocks, frames wheels tires.

    26 will still dominate at minimum the 160-200mm arena!
    Maybe even 140-150mm theyre will be options.
    The wheels are stronger

    26ers generate speed over all terrain better by better riders.

    Theyre will be areas in racing where 26ers Enduro and DH esspecially will always have an advantage esspecially for riders that have good skill levels, racers what am I saying course they can ride hello.

    15mm axles dd not get rid of 9mm axles, carbon has not got rid of Alloy as Alloy did not get rid of Steel frames.

    Bike manafactures as I see it will become more and more Specialised esspecially big guys like Giant.

    Up to 120 / 130 - 29er
    130 /-150 - 27.5
    150 / 200 90% atleast will still be 26er

    Some like KHS will look to differeniate themselves in the market by going full 650b but this will be the exception not the norm the market is too small to lock into one wheel option.

    Basically big wheels help beginners, bigger riders, poor riders ride easier, the beginner rider is not developing skills fundamental in mtb for intermeadiate to advanced, some will but they are the few, I see it more and more every day people lacking fundamental skills like pumping a trail, good line choices, using ground features for grip or speed. I constantly here roll over speed especially here on forums that spells to me lack of skill to use terrain.

    This not just because of big wheels this phenonem started with dual suspenion but has accelerated with big wheels. Its a dumbing down syndrome so common in modern society and mtb is also consumed with it.

    I find these threads discussions just totally useless basically because people should just ride what they enjoy and stop dicking around because they have a self confindence issue about what wheel size they ride, mountain biking will be better for it and so would your riding!

    I remember when the same was said of the 2 stroke, it would die and be consigned to the history books, Honda, Yamaha, Kawa! Suzuki used to dominate this market, they went all in on the four strokes, KTM is the biggest dirt bike manufacturer in the world, why, they sell more 2 strokes than they do four strokes all because the big four Japanese manufactures ignored the key market, not just racers buy bikes. Funny now some like Yamaha while not developing them still sell brand new 2007 models and they still stand up suspension wise on those bikes on the 2stroke is still one of the best, KTM have reportedly got direction injection dialled but not to market yet, only 20 years behind outboard motors but hey!

    But 26ers are here to stay like it or not, and perish at your lack of vision if you give someone else that opportunity. Chromag 26ers in hardtails are some of the most desired bikes around just another example!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    453
    Here's the rub about the 650B:

    At the amateur rider level they are going to be a very hard sell.
    Want a bike that is like your 26" but heavier?
    Want a bike that will improve your ability to descend thru chunk, but not as well as a 29" can?

    It seems that they are a great way to sell a bike. In the 150mm range.

    As for the Bronson, well Santa Cruz has a long history of making good bikes. Why would this one be any different?

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,938
    Wow, Maverick, that's quite a manifesto.

    While I agree with you that a lot of people spend way too much time and money agonizing over equipment choices instead of just getting on their bike and building some skills, it's pretty ironic that you're laying that rant on Yody who is clearly not a wheel size fashionista, rather is getting dragged reluctantly into the big wheel era. And while I've never ridden with Yody, I'm willing to bet $100 based on all the discussions we've both joined in, pictures he's posted, and advice that I've heard him give, that he is NOT one of these hacks that needs to shut his computer off and go learn some basic skills.
    So, dual suspension is bad because it makes riding a given trail easier? Big wheels are bad because it makes harder terrain more accessible to beginners? So what innovation is acceptable? I've been around long enough to remember grey haired dudes in wool knickers bashing on index shifting because young riders wouldn't have to learn proper shifting technique. If I follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, then all innovation is bad. I guess the French guy that made the first bone shaker in the mid 1800's with wood & iron wagon wheels and no pedals or drivetrain had it right and we should all stop being a bunch of whiny pnssies wanting gears, and pedals, and pneumatic tires, and seats with padding.
    I ride 26 & 650b. I've ridden a bunch of nice 29ers but I don't own one. My friend at the LBS tells me 29ers are 90% of their mtb sales now. Many of our local trails are uninterrupted crumbling limestone cluster focks. (which I love, btw!) When you're grinding up a long steep section of that stuff, skill and fitness still make the biggest difference, but big wheels help too. And if big wheels help new riders get into what can be an intimidating and even dangerous sport, that's great as far as I'm concerned. I've known a lot of people over the years (my wife included) who were turned off to mtb before they every really got started, because the terrain was too difficult for the bikes of the day unless you were willing to make it practically a life calling (I was), and pay the blood-n-skin tax on a regular basis (I did). A beginners is a beginner, regardless of wheel size, and a beginner on a high dollar big wheel fullsusser will still learn those skills if he keeps riding enough... that's the key, just keep riding and you'll gain skill regardless.
    I grimace too sometimes when I see an obviously rookie rider on a big dollar bike, and I think "man, what a punk....doesn't know how easy he's got it." But then I follow my own advice ( and yours ) and just shut up and ride the awesome bike I already have...no hate. Trying to force the technology that was state of the art when you started riding on new riders today is a bogus proposition...that's not the way our world works.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Wow, Maverick, that's quite a manifesto.

    While I agree with you that a lot of people spend way too much time and money agonizing over equipment choices instead of just getting on their bike and building some skills, it's pretty ironic that you're laying that rant on Yody who is clearly not a wheel size fashionista, rather is getting dragged reluctantly into the big wheel era. And while I've never ridden with Yody, I'm willing to bet $100 based on all the discussions we've both joined in, pictures he's posted, and advice that I've heard him give, that he is NOT one of these hacks that needs to shut his computer off and go learn some basic skills.
    So, dual suspension is bad because it makes riding a given trail easier? Big wheels are bad because it makes harder terrain more accessible to beginners? So what innovation is acceptable? I've been around long enough to remember grey haired dudes in wool knickers bashing on index shifting because young riders wouldn't have to learn proper shifting technique. If I follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, then all innovation is bad. I guess the French guy that made the first bone shaker in the mid 1800's with wood & iron wagon wheels and no pedals or drivetrain had it right and we should all stop being a bunch of whiny pnssies wanting gears, and pedals, and pneumatic tires, and seats with padding.
    I ride 26 & 650b. I've ridden a bunch of nice 29ers but I don't own one. My friend at the LBS tells me 29ers are 90% of their mtb sales now. Many of our local trails are uninterrupted crumbling limestone cluster focks. (which I love, btw!) When you're grinding up a long steep section of that stuff, skill and fitness still make the biggest difference, but big wheels help too. And if big wheels help new riders get into what can be an intimidating and even dangerous sport, that's great as far as I'm concerned. I've known a lot of people over the years (my wife included) who were turned off to mtb before they every really got started, because the terrain was too difficult for the bikes of the day unless you were willing to make it practically a life calling (I was), and pay the blood-n-skin tax on a regular basis (I did). A beginners is a beginner, regardless of wheel size, and a beginner on a high dollar big wheel fullsusser will still learn those skills if he keeps riding enough... that's the key, just keep riding and you'll gain skill regardless.
    I grimace too sometimes when I see an obviously rookie rider on a big dollar bike, and I think "man, what a punk....doesn't know how easy he's got it." But then I follow my own advice ( and yours ) and just shut up and ride the awesome bike I already have...no hate. Trying to force the technology that was state of the art when you started riding on new riders today is a bogus proposition...that's not the way our world works.

  15. #15
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick005 View Post
    Sorry to say it but thats the stupiest statement yet! i thought Ibiesians were more intelligent than this!
    When calling others out for their stupidity, it's generally a good idea to avoid incoherent ramblings riddled with spelling & grammatical errors.

    I like 650B. I like 26". I like pumping terrain, but pumping terrain is hard, hard work. Big wheels make pumping less important to carry equivalent speed, leaving more gas in the tank, allowing for longer rides, and therefore more time riding. Win. Nothing to do with skill or experience whatsoever. These are different tools for different jobs.

    To respond to Yody's original post, I think 650B for Ibis is a no-brainer. As I've argued in other threads, the tweener wheel size really plays to the dw-link's strengths, and Ibis' version of it in particular. In addition, the HD could be timed well for an update, to incorporate everything Ibis must have learned with the SL-R and Ripley for layup, etc. With the 27.5 market in 2013-2014, the industry focus with tires, forks, and other manufacturers seems to be capable trail/AM bikes in the 150-160mm range. So both of those factors point to the HD being the obvious place to incorporate 27.5. Where the dilemma is -- and I don't envy Ibis this decision at all -- is whether to update the existing HD (new layup, tweaked rear triangle, which is so, so close already) or go with an entirely new platform, perhaps based on the 2xc design. Personally I'd be stoked on either, but given the HD's current status as industry-leader in terms of versatility, I'd go with the update. With one rear mold covering all frame sizes, you can address the entire 26 & 27.5" AM market. Offer it as an option, exactly the same idea as the 140/160 limbo chip choice. This would mean getting it to market much, much faster than a completely new frame, and presumably require far less investment. In either case, it'd give the Bronson a real run for its money. 140 or 160. 26 or 27.5. No compromises, no concessions, no drama, no manifesto, no obsolescence.
    Last edited by budgie; 04-29-2013 at 12:33 PM.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Ive been told fox is no longer going to put any new technology into any of their 26" forks....

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    170

    Ibis and 650B?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Ive been told fox is no longer going to put any new technology into any of their 26" forks....
    I don't believe this for a second. First off, 26" is not dead and never will be. There are still a ton of 26" bikes sold and will continue to be sold. Second, a damper is a damper and doesn't matter what wheel size it is made for. If they make some new damper or super blingy diamond Kashima butter coating they will put it on every wheel size fork they make. And if I'm wrong...fox forks blow anyways and people may start realizing that there are better options.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,938
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I guess my even-longer manifesto left nothing for you to say....

    Did I just jip myself out of witnessing another Yody tongue lashing? bummer

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Ive been told fox is no longer going to put any new technology into any of their 26" forks....
    I don't like it, but I believe it, WTB also said no new 26" tread patterns....only 27.5 and 29.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Ive been told fox is no longer going to put any new technology into any of their 26" forks....
    I have read this quote elsewhere.
    I asked for a source there and am still waiting.

    I won't believe this until I see Fox actually say this.

    Secondly, Fox is not impressing me right now.

    I saw there new FloAt X shock, you can not adjust the rebound without a tool.

    Their new CTD has been reviewed so harshly that they issued a new updated version on the compression damper less than a year after release.

    And they discontinued my favorite fork ever right before I bought my bike: Vanilla 36,160mm

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I guess my even-longer manifesto left nothing for you to say....

    Did I just jip myself out of witnessing another Yody tongue lashing? bummer
    LOL! I dunno I didn't quite understand that dudes long winded rant to be honest. Sounded kinda angry with no direction, really didn't push any buttons. And thanks for the comments, appreciate it! I'm always learning new things and always trying to pass along knowledge to others.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by saidrick View Post
    I have read this quote elsewhere.
    I asked for a source there and am still waiting.

    I won't believe this until I see Fox actually say this.

    Secondly, Fox is not impressing me right now.

    I saw there new FloAt X shock, you can not adjust the rebound without a tool.

    Their new CTD has been reviewed so harshly that they issued a new updated version on the compression damper less than a year after release.

    And they discontinued my favorite fork ever right before I bought my bike: Vanilla 36,160mm
    Just hearsay, someone who I trust told me that, but who knows if its true. Wouldn't be surprised.

    I like Fox products, so what if FloatX needs a tool, The DBair does and I don't see people bashing that. I mean tooless is way better but I'm not going to overlook a good shock just based on that. I like Rockshox as well, both make good stuff.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: doismellbacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,938
    Back on topic.....yes, I think we'll see something 650b from Ibis this year, and the HD is the likely guess.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,881
    Hmm nobody from Ibis Chiming in. That must mean something, but what it means? Who knows, lol

  25. #25
    OriginalDonk
    Reputation: OriginalDonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    208
    I imagine Hans might be looking to preserve a bit of sanity at the office. If they even allude to a 650B frame I can only imagine how his inbox would look. I really wonder how many Ripley emails those guys received in the past two years alone. A lot of people were calling for the "Apple" product development model where it's announced when it's ready so I don't expect anything soon.

    My best guess would be any news would be released at just before dealer camp in July. I expect the Tranny 29 to be the next model announced (a few threads have pointed out a mystery T9 model on Ibis boxes). With Fox and Rockshox jumping on board with 650B last year I'm wondering if it might be a year early in the Ibis development cycle. Should be interesting to see what shakes out.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ibis Mojo SL-R 650b
    By ibis4me in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-24-2013, 01:27 AM
  2. Niner WFO vs Ibis Mojo HD (650B Conversion). HELP!!!
    By racinghk in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-06-2013, 04:46 AM
  3. Ibis 650B?
    By lml427 in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-25-2012, 03:47 PM
  4. Ibis mojoHD 650b conversion questions
    By slideways666 in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  5. Ibis tranny fit 650b
    By scottybinwv in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-11-2011, 05:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •