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  1. #1
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    Hypothetical but genuine question

    I know this question may encounter some resistance here (and it might make some of you guys shed a tear at the thought), but it is a question of genuine interest so I hope to get some honest answers. Here it goes ...

    Suppose that Ibis disappeared without a trace and ALL the Mojos, SLs, etc vanished with no way or chance of being reproduced ... what bicycle would take its place? Price, make, model, etc are not a factor and making your own Mojo, or giving up cycling are not acceptable answers ... you must ride, but what?

    (NOTE: Explanation of your choice is not required, but feel free to add one if you'd like. And BTW ... no hidden aggenda here, just sheer curiosity.)

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Gentleman Loser
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    Maverick

    A Maverick Durance.

  3. #3
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    I changed my order for a Pace RC405 to a Mojo SL

    The Pace RC405 was high up my list, and got rave reviews from the magazines. It definitely isn't as sexy as the Mojo, though. I'd seriously consider buying a Cannondale again; the new Scalpel looks great. There are also several Santa Cruz frames that would be high up my potential shopping list. I seriously considered the Superlight and various flavours of Blur.

    But imagining a world without the Mojo...
    That would be a cruel place indeed.

  4. #4
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    Liteville 301

  5. #5
    flow where ever you go
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    My mind is one big blank. If one bike enters, a whole stable enters. It might take years of grief and confusion, but I'd narrow it down to something.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  6. #6
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    Hey, maybe I change my mind.

    How about the Storck Organic Light?

    - Matt

  7. #7
    Mojo0115
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    If there were no Ibis I would probably look pretty closely at Transition bikes. But I think I would find it hard to ride a non- DW-Link for all mountain/ cross country riding. Sadly the other DW manufacturers just don't have the collection of build that the Mojo offers.

  8. #8
    The MTB Lab
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    Iron Horse MKIII (DW Link, a close clone of the Mojo) or the new Moots Mooto-XZ (29 incher)

  9. #9
    holding back the darkness
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    Can a have a tranny? Does that count? Some sort of singlespeed.
    Is true love, by definition absolute? If perfection is found, and lost again there is no use attempting to replace it. It cannot be done. It would be best to simply change perspective. I would make a couple upgrades to my singlespeed Jenna and roam the earth like Kane from Kung Fu silently lamenting my lost love.
    **** censorship

  10. #10
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    Pivot Mach 5 or Niner RIP 9

  11. #11
    www.derbyrims.com
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    MKiii or maybe the '08 Marin Wolf Ridge (I haven't demo'd it yet but if it's a pound lighter and as good riding as the earlier Wolf Ridge...)

  12. #12
    Green Mojo
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    None. I would sit at home and look at all my old pictures of my bike on trails in Southern CA, Utah, Nevada, Colorado. That would be a sad day.............

  13. #13
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    The alternatives to Mojo SL were:

    -Specialized Enduro SL (nice frame, shame about the non-standard own-brand fork and own-brand rear shock)
    - Liteville 301 (nice but not nice enough to beat Mojo SL and I would have liked slightly more travel)

    Hopefully the Mojo SL lives up to the expectations when it arrives sometimes later on.
    Pertti
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    MC Kramppi

  14. #14
    _dw
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    I find myself splitting time on my Mojo and MKIII as it is, with a heathy dose of 6POINT added in, so I guess my MKIII. If I lived somewhere with a little more burly terrain then it would be 6POINT. The Mojo and MKII are 2 TOTALLY different bikes though. Worlds apart as far as geometry and riding style go IMO.
    dw★link
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  15. #15
    Amphibious Technologies
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    _dw,

    So when will IH start making CF bikes? I see the Aluminum dw bikes from IH drastically dropping in price/value over time but CF is holding up.

    Edit: Oh, and how do you exactly design damping characteristics into the CF composite itself as described by derby below. Is that even possible (i.e., can you really replicate such controlled damping between each frame/batch of frames)?

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I’ve found the Mojo’s minor amount of flex turns out to be a performance benefit due to the damping nature of carbon fiber and how the minor damped flex has been designed.
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 01-25-2008 at 11:11 AM.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  16. #16
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    _dw,

    So when will IH start making CF bikes? I see the Aluminum dw bikes from IH drastically dropping in price/value over time but CF is holding up.
    Mosty likely never, barring unforseen future developmemts.. Iron Horse's dw-link license will terminate after the 2008 model year, and I moved on from consulting on high end development work for IH in June 2007.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    Edit: Oh, and how do you exactly design damping characteristics into the CF composite itself as described by derby below. Is that even possible (i.e., can you really replicate such controlled damping between each frame/batch of frames)?
    Its definitely possible, and done quite frequently in other high tech structural industries. I can't comment on if the Mojo was designed to exhibit a specific damping rate, but this is definitely something that can and is done through a wide variety of methods.

    Dave
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  17. #17
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Mosty likely never, barring unforseen future developmemts.. Iron Horse's dw-link license will terminate after the 2008 model year, and I moved on from consulting on high end development work for IH in June 2007.
    Interesting. does that mean there would be no 2009 Iron Horse Sunday?

  18. #18
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Interesting. does that mean there would be no 2009 Iron Horse Sunday?
    Well, there may be a Sunday, but it won't be one that I designed, and it won't be using dw-link. There will however, be at least one dw-link downhill bike on the market.. just not a Sunday.
    dw★link
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  19. #19
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    HEY!!! What's up with the hijack?!?

  20. #20
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Well, there may be a Sunday, but it won't be one that I designed, and it won't be using dw-link. There will however, be at least one dw-link downhill bike on the market.. just not a Sunday.
    I would kill for a downhill bike designed by Ibis - imagine their attention to detail and customer service behind a downhill bike.

  21. #21
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Mosty likely never, barring unforseen future developmemts.. Iron Horse's dw-link license will terminate after the 2008 model year, and I moved on from consulting on high end development work for IH in June 2007.

    Dave
    WOW! Do you think IH will continue to carry replacement parts for their dw bikes for year to come? It would suck to get one and not be able to get parts for it. Or worst, get a non dw replacement. Yikes!
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  22. #22
    When in doubt, go faster
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Well, there may be a Sunday, but it won't be one that I designed, and it won't be using dw-link. There will however, be at least one dw-link downhill bike on the market.. just not a Sunday.
    That really blows. Hard.

  23. #23
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    WOW! Do you think IH will continue to carry replacement parts for their dw bikes for year to come? It would suck to get one and not be able to get parts for it. Or worst, get a non dw replacement. Yikes!
    I would think they will carry replacement parts, but ultimately it will be up to them.
    dw★link
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  24. #24
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by =ChrisB=
    That really blows. Hard.
    One of the toughest decisions of my life to move on, but its done now. OK sorry for the thread hijack!
    dw★link
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  25. #25
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    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


    Welp, that about sums it up... good luck in 09 Iron Horse.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    I would think they will carry replacement parts, but ultimately it will be up to them.
    Does that mean that Sam Hill won't be the World Champ if doesn't get on another DW??

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    One of the toughest decisions of my life to move on, but its done now. OK sorry for the thread hijack!
    Wow, Iron Horse really shot themselves in the foot. Dwlink has really put them on the map.

    Oh yea, the thread. I guess a Trek ex 9,5,split pivot or a SC Blur. But it still would not near fill the void.

  28. #28
    hands up who wants to die
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    yep. he has to give back all his trophies too.
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  29. #29
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    I'm with runermm!

    Quote Originally Posted by runermm
    Pivot Mach 5 or Niner RIP 9
    Mach 5 or RIP 9 are the other two bikes that get my juices flowing....although the Mach 5 is getting a mixed bag of reviews compared to the Mojo. How many Mojo owners have had a chance to ride a Mach 5?

  30. #30
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    Well, there may be a Sunday, but it won't be one that I designed, and it won't be using dw-link. There will however, be at least one dw-link downhill bike on the market.. just not a Sunday.
    _dw, Who will be making dw-link bikes in 2009?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    _dw, Who will be making dw-link bikes in 2009?
    ...and what's about an add of the of dw-link principles and other great system in just one bike...

  32. #32
    Freetard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    If there were no Ibis I would probably look pretty closely at Transition bikes. But I think I would find it hard to ride a non- DW-Link for all mountain/ cross country riding. Sadly the other DW manufacturers just don't have the collection of build that the Mojo offers.
    What about the Marin Mt. Vision? It's got that sexy quad-link suspension
    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    Those cables on the Socom look flexy

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyrm
    Does that mean that Sam Hill won't be the World Champ if doesn't get on another DW??
    DW,

    I read somewhere that you designed the Ibis Mojo spring curve around theFox RP23 shock, Given the interest in this forum (and by me) in seeking custom tuning of the RP23, by Push, Fox and others, can you comment on what benefits this tuning may provide above an beyond your basic design?

    Thanks and Kudos for the awesome suspension design!

  34. #34
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    I would just ride my Ibis Bow-Ti. 24 lbs with 5 inches of rear travel & no pivots, or my Ti-Mojo and I would still mourn the loss of Ibis like I did in '02

  35. #35
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon
    Mach 5 or RIP 9 are the other two bikes that get my juices flowing....although the Mach 5 is getting a mixed bag of reviews compared to the Mojo. How many Mojo owners have had a chance to ride a Mach 5?
    I dont' think that anyone has ridden a Mach 5 with the correct shock tune outside of Pivot employees, so until the bike hits the market, I'd basically disregard any feedback that you read, especially from Interbike 2007, where the Mach 5 shocks were stock level 2 tune propedal RP23s, ultimately just way overdamped.

    Dave
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  36. #36
    _dw
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    DW,

    I read somewhere that you designed the Ibis Mojo spring curve around theFox RP23 shock, Given the interest in this forum (and by me) in seeking custom tuning of the RP23, by Push, Fox and others, can you comment on what benefits this tuning may provide above an beyond your basic design?

    Thanks and Kudos for the awesome suspension design!
    Thank you!

    There are two things that make up a shock, a spring and a damper.

    Every single dw-link bike is designed around a specific shock. Wheel rate is a term that you never hear in mountian biking, but its the only curve having to do with shock performance that really matters to me. I develop leverage rates to work with specific desired wheel rates and using specific spring curves. Developing the suspension to specifically achieve a wheel rate helps to define the character of a bike, so a lot of time and discussion goes into extracting the empirical data which I turn into mathematcal functions that eventually define the "feel" of a dw-link bike" I have used the same process with every dw-link bike ever built, Sunday to Mojo, and each bike is meant to exude a certain personality that reflects the company's name on the downtube.

    The Mojo design was around the predecessor to the RP series, I can't remember the name of the shock, but the air spring curve is basically identical to the current low volume RP23.

    From a damping standpoint, the stock RP23's work best on the Mojo and other dw-links with the lowest propedal tune level possible. A level 1 tune is good, well compared to many other bikes, downright great in my opinion, but with tuning you can really take advantage of all the traction that dw-link has to offer. For bikes with extremely low leverage rates (like the Pivot Mach 5 for example) a custom shock tune with a propedal tune lower than 1 is basically a necessity in my opinion.

    Darren Murphy from Push and I go way back, even before dw-link. I think that his services are something that many riders can take advantage of. FOX, SRAM, DT, Marzocchi, they all make awesome products. Lets face it though, not every rider knows exactly how to tune a damper, or even what is best for them. Darren knows what it takes to get the most out of a damper to really take advantage of what your dw-linked bike has to offer.

    Hope this helps

    Dave
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  37. #37
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    @Dave:

    thanks for the explanation. Can you comment on the spring curve of the DT Swiss shock used in the SL and how that compares to the RP23? Do you see any performance differences for the Mojo between the two shocks?

    Thanks,
    Jever

  38. #38
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    Wow, thanks for all the info Dave! I am about to buy a new bike, so this thread is really interesting. Could you describe the differences between the Mojo and MKIII? How is the ride different, and what is each designed for?

    Thanks

  39. #39
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    The answers to both those questions would be a very interesting read...

  40. #40
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    Ironhorse

    I think a lot of you guys have pretty short memories. Everybody keeps talking like Ironhorse can't exist without the DW link and Sam Hill won't like another Ironhorse DH bike. What about when he won Worlds on an Ironhorse with FSR suspension (prior to the Sunday)? Turns out Sam is fast, and as long as they give him a quality bike, he'll continue to win.

    Don't get me wrong, I've ridden and loved DW-link bikes. But I also rode the FSR ironhorse and that bike was fast too. Ironhorse will move on, whether it be a single pivot or another licensed design like FSR. They'll make it work and Sam will still win.

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