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Thread: Hdr/m6/e29

  1. #1
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    Hdr/m6/e29

    A lot of people have been asking my opinion of the M6 lately so I guess it is time to post an update. I got it built up middle of last week with the exception of the wheels. Fortunately I have some really good friends and one of them loaned me an unused set of 275 wheels they had in their garage. Current build on the bike is; L M6 Frame, XX1, KS Lev, Renthal Fatbar Carbon, XT brakes and Derby wide carbon rims with I9 Hubs (still being built). Compare that to my HDR which is XX1, Reverb, Havoc carbon bars, Haven carbon wheels. For the last few weeks on the Enduro 29 I had it setup with XX1 as well just so the comparison was as equal as possible. All three bikes had the same tires, Hans Dampf Trailstar front and Conti Trail King rear. Weights of the bikes are HDR 28.5 lbs, M6 27.5 lbs (with tubes and aluminum wheels), E29 30 lbs.

    I am sure most people saw my thoughts on the E29. I continued to ride it until last week while I was waiting for the HDR and even raced it a week ago since I had no saddle time on the Ibis for the two weeks leading up to the race. No matter what configuration I created on the bike I just could not get comfortable on it. I also found no speed difference between it and the HD/R. The HD/R was no faster, but I felt better and more in control when things got steep and deep.

    Currently I only have three rides on the M6 so keep that in mind since these are just my preliminary thoughts. First off based on the numbers I expected the bike to be significantly longer and lower. This I found to be half true. I am currently running the exact same stem as my HD. I tried a shorter stem and the bike felt way too cramped. The bar height is over an inch lower compared to the HD though. With .5 cm of spacers it feels perfect now. The bike hold true to the other 275 bikes I have tried and is a rocket uphill for me. I can't figure this one out since the 29 was no quicker for me, but every time I go uphill on a 275 bike I set PR's. I have done two very technical climbs with it and it has been fantastic on both. Unfortunately I didn't buy this bike to go uphill, so the climbing is not a big deal for me, but not a bad thing either. Fortunately the bike kills it descending too. I have set 15+ PR's on the descents in the last three rides and 12 of those I was already close to the top of the leader board. I usually take several weeks to get up to speed on any bike and I was fast out of the gate on this one. These were not easy smooth runs either. They are some of the rockiest/nastiest around. Although I am a Fox hater, the new Float X is awesome out of the box. I literally set the sag and ran it and the bike feels planted and composed everywhere. I am not sure if it is the 275 wheels or the entire bike, but I really, really like it.

    Let me know what questions you have and I will keep everyone updated if you are interested.












  2. #2
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    Nice review.

    I've had a pivot mach 5 before and did not like it. Had poor components on it like a triple ring setup that never really worked. So it has put me off of pivot as a brand.

    Having said that the M6 does look very very nice!

    So do you find it more fun and playful compared to the HDR?

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    I'd like to hear your take on the feel of the rear suspension. I expect the HDR would feel pretty similar to the HD, which I've always thought was pretty plush. How does the Mach 6 compare? Also how big of a difference in feel does the extra travel of the Mach 6 give over the shorter travel HDR?

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    Thanks for the updates. When you've had more rides could you do a more in-depth HDR vs Mach 6 comparison. I know how much you like your HD/R based on past posts, and wonder if you still think it's the most fun.
    Also, are you running a size larger on your HDR than the Pivot and Spesh? I know they run small.
    When I got my HDR I went with a large. I'm 5' 8", run a very short stem and coming off a medium ASR 5C, which run long.

  5. #5
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    All three bikes are larges. The suspension on the Pivot is as or more plush than the HD/R, but feels like it has even better midstroke support. My HDR is setup as a 160/26 bike and not 275/130 so the Pivot actually has 5 mm less travel. I don't notice any difference in my ability to throw the bike around compared to the HDR even though the HDR has 26 wheels.

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    Are you weighing the bikes with pedals?

    The Mach 6's weight seems really light for a bigger wheeled bike with tubes.

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    Yes, weights are with pedals.

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    Do you know find that your large HDR runs small when compared to a large Pivot and Specialized?

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    Definitely smaller than the Specialized, but about the same as the Pivot going by feel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    All three bikes are larges. The suspension on the Pivot is as or more plush than the HD/R, but feels like it has even better midstroke support. My HDR is setup as a 160/26 bike and not 275/130 so the Pivot actually has 5 mm less travel. I don't notice any difference in my ability to throw the bike around compared to the HDR even though the HDR has 26 wheels.
    Excellent thanks, I found my mid-stroke support lacking on HD until I put a Cane Creek DB air on it. I'm not bike shopping but if the industry really switches to 27.5 as the norm I think Pivot has nailed it with the Mach 6, at least on paper.

  11. #11
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    I should clarify that I don't think the midstroke is an issue for my HDR. I am running a Pushed Monarch Plus which is awesome.

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    Salespunk- whats your height and weight? On paper the pivot is longer in the TT by .6 " and .8" on the wheelbase, surprised that isnt more noticable.

    The large HDS were short for me at 6, 1 with a long torso.

  13. #13
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    I've got to say I wondered the same thing. To me the HD/HDR run a full size smaller in wheelbase/TT/reach when compared to the Pivot 5.7/Mach, SC Bronson, Yeti SB 66.
    And then there's the new Konas -- 17" reach on the mediums!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    All three bikes are larges. The suspension on the Pivot is as or more plush than the HD/R, but feels like it has even better midstroke support. My HDR is setup as a 160/26 bike and not 275/130 so the Pivot actually has 5 mm less travel. I don't notice any difference in my ability to throw the bike around compared to the HDR even though the HDR has 26 wheels.
    My rig is a 3 yr old HD. I've demo'd the M6 twice now. I'd echo your comments exactly. I was very pleased with the Float X, the 27.5 ability to roll over braking bumps and chunder, and yet remain precise and flickable. I really like the M6.

    That said, both M6s I demo'd had more rear end flex than desired. There were rub marks on the seatstay on both bikes...to the point of paint down to the primer already. Yikes! I can't say how much was wheel and how much was rear triangle. You should keep an eye on yours and report.Hdr/m6/e29-m6-tire-rub.jpg

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    SP, any plans to put a short shock and 27.5 wheels on the HD-R? That's the shootout I'm wanting to see.... 27.5 HD-R vs M6

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    No, but my friend has that setup that I could probably borrow. Built almost exactly like my HDR. He loves the setup with a 160 Pike on the front.

    On the flex questions, there is none to speak of in my bike. It is as solid as my HDR from what I can tell. The E29, not so much.

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    Happy to report that there are no issues with flex on mine either; SpeedDream built wheels with Flow EX.

    In the other thread, I mentioned that the issue may be with the rear wheel on the demo bike. I believe that is holding true now that I have been on a Mach6 for a few weeks now. I'm 6'1, 190 lbs RTR and not easy on frames.

    Oh, and the Mach6 is fantastic BTW.

  18. #18
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    Robert are you in SD?

  19. #19
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    No, but I lived there for ~38 years! Met my wife out there while I was still a hooligan in the mountains on my R1. LOL We both sold our motorcycles (R1 and R6) and I "only" rip the trails now.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    No, but my friend has that setup that I could probably borrow. Built almost exactly like my HDR. He loves the setup with a 160 Pike on the front.
    That would be awesome. Your reviews are really well done.
    I'm curious if you feel like the longer travel of the M6 gives a big advantage over the HD-R downhill and in the rough, and conversely, if the HD-R's shorter travel gives it an advantage on the climbs...particularly the tight, rough and technical variety. Also, I suspect there are more people out there weighing the choice between these two as 650b bikes, as opposed to M6 vs HD-R 26.

  21. #21
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    Awesome SP

    I was shocked by weights as well, but thinking about it the Lyrik will be the main reason for that, and also I think the Lyrik vs the Pike in climbing stakes also would affect KOMs on the climbs, dont think it would affect much on the downs.

    But the M6 sounds rad dude, no doubt in a few more weeks youll be even faster, good report on the float x too, good to see Fox getting it right

    Keep the updates coming your M6 is sick love it, could sway me to the dark side in a few years!

  22. #22
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    Thanks Mav! I am on the sidelines right now with a neck issue, but hopefully I will be back on the bike middle of next week. Bummer since I got my Derby carbon's laced up and ready to go! No rides yet though!





    I was a little off on the weight. The M6 was 28 with aluminum wheels and is now 27.75 with carbon. Main weight difference is the Lyrik/Pike and Reverb/KS. Frames are very close.

  23. #23
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    Wondering if you ever had a chance to try carbon wheels on the Endo? Being a 29er, it seems it would have the most to gain by going carbon.

  24. #24
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    I don't have access to 29 carbon wheels unfortunately. Just not excited about the 29 wheel size. Definitely understand why some people like it, but not for me.

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