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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Jeff here has been collecting hubs and testing fit. Here's his summary:

    We've been busy testing as many XX1 compatible freehubs on the HD as we can. Most of them fit. The determining factor will be the glue line that runs in a semi-circle around the dropout. If clearance issues do occur, they will most likely be between the glue line and the chain. Clearance is very close on the XX1 stuff, and in the event that any rubbing happens, it'll be fine to use a file in order to remove the ~1mm or so of offending glue that causes the interference.

    Attachment 770872

    The SLR should fit most hubs set up correctly with the XX1 driver and 142x12 end caps.

    We are still testing the Mojo SL and Mojo, actually waiting for the right sized hub end caps at the moment. More info as we get it.

    Cheers!

    Ibis
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
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    The pic definitely helps outline any potential issue. Thanks for sharing and we appreciate the info!

  3. #28
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    Good to see that pic too, interesting mines not marked in that area at all, I have applied some frame protection to the inner chainstay seat stay area but no issues thank you bike gods

  4. #29
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    After just running the crank for a couple of weeks I finally got a DT swiss freehub and installed the XX1 kit. Unfortunately, downshifting shifting is not fantastic and sub-par compared to XTR, especially out of the first cog. I am wondering whether anyone else has noticed something similar?

    With XX1, the chain glides/moves horizontally across the CS/SS bridge. It doesn't get caught by the glue line as the glue line had already been worn away with my old XT casette/XTR derailleur/Mavic Crossmax hub setup.

    However, unlike with my Shimano setup, the chain gets caught between the lowest and second lowest cog (11-10) during downshifting. During the transition, there is noticeable build-up in lateral chain tension. This chain tension seems to be caused in part because the chain is pushed against the CS/SS bridge. Near the end of the transition, the chain will suddenly jump vertically upwards along the CS/SS bridge. It appears that there is some level of friction between the chain and the CS/SS bridge that contributes to the tension in the chain. At this point there is an audible pin as the tension is released. After this vertical jump, the chain then finishes its movement across to the larger cog. At higher speed this becomes less noticeable, but the downshift is not nearly as smooth as the Shimano setup. Upshifts (to smaller cogs) are no problem.

    In addition, shifting from 10th to 9th and 2nd to 1st gear could also be smoother although they are much better than the shift from 1st to 2nd.

    I have adjusted the limit screws, cable tension, and the derailleur offset. None of the adjustments fully resolved the issue. The derailleur hanger doesn't seem bent either. Has anyone else experienced this? Or is this just a characteristic of SRAM shifting?

    I am using the Chris King bottom bracket (see above), but the chainline seems appropriate (middle of the cassette @ 6th cog from the top). Hub width is 142mm. Replaced derailleur hanger to no avail.

    I have posted some pictures below.
    1.
    Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-shift-1-.jpg
    2.
    Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-shift-2-.jpg
    3.
    Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-shift-4-.jpg
    4.
    Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-shift-5-.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-shift-3-.jpg  


  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    After just running the crank for a couple of weeks I finally got a DT swiss freehub and installed the XX1 kit. Unfortunately, downshifting shifting is not fantastic and sub-par compared to XTR, especially out of the first cog. I am wondering whether anyone else has noticed something similar?

    With XX1, the chain glides/moves horizontally across the CS/SS bridge. It doesn't get caught by the glue line as the glue line had already been worn away with my old XT casette/XTR derailleur/Mavic Crossmax hub setup.

    However, unlike with my Shimano setup, the chain gets caught between the lowest and second lowest cog (11-10) during downshifting. During the transition, there is noticeable build-up in lateral chain tension. This chain tension seems to be caused in part because the chain is pushed against the CS/SS bridge. Near the end of the transition, the chain will suddenly jump vertically upwards along the CS/SS bridge. It appears that there is some level of friction between the chain and the CS/SS bridge that contributes to the tension in the chain. At this point there is an audible pin as the tension is released. After this vertical jump, the chain then finishes its movement across to the larger cog. At higher speed this becomes less noticeable, but the downshift is not nearly as smooth as the Shimano setup. Upshifts (to smaller cogs) are no problem.

    In addition, shifting from 10th to 9th and 2nd to 1st gear could also be smoother although they are much better than the shift from 1st to 2nd.

    I have adjusted the limit screws, cable tension, and the derailleur offset. None of the adjustments fully resolved the issue. The derailleur hanger doesn't seem bent either. Has anyone else experienced this? Or is this just a characteristic of SRAM shifting?

    I am using the Chris King bottom bracket (see above), but the chainline seems appropriate (middle of the cassette @ 6th cog from the top). Hub width is 142mm. Replaced derailleur hanger to no avail.

    I have posted some pictures below.
    1.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am sure you did this or at least looked at it, but I had to file away some of the area of carbon and bonding area where the chain would rub the drop out area (per Hans' suggestion). I know from the angle I am seeing it, it may not be a true picture, but it looks like you are rubbing in that area. I am just thinking that may be causing you to adjust things to force the shift and therefore throwing everything else off just a little. It almost looks like you would get clicking or even up shifting on the smallest cog when back pedaling. Just a suggestion, but at least someplace to look or start. It also seems like the XX1 set up is sensitive to the "B" adjustment too, maybe take a look at that. Good luck.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    I am sure you did this or at least looked at it, but I had to file away some of the area of carbon and bonding area where the chain would rub the drop out area (per Hans' suggestion). I know from the angle I am seeing it, it may not be a true picture, but it looks like you are rubbing in that area. I am just thinking that may be causing you to adjust things to force the shift and therefore throwing everything else off just a little. It almost looks like you would get clicking or even up shifting on the smallest cog when back pedaling. Just a suggestion, but at least someplace to look or start. It also seems like the XX1 set up is sensitive to the "B" adjustment too, maybe take a look at that. Good luck.
    Yeah, I ground down the bonding area. The chain actually pushes against the bridge after the glue line. Interestingly enough, the glue line had already been ground away in part with my Shimano setup. I also tried different "B" adjustments. While they definitely made the issue better/worse, it really didn't fully take care of it.

    Is you shifting pretty smooth, even when pedaling slowly?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by das recht View Post
    Yeah, I ground down the bonding area. The chain actually pushes against the bridge after the glue line. Interestingly enough, the glue line had already been ground away in part with my Shimano setup. I also tried different "B" adjustments. While they definitely made the issue better/worse, it really didn't fully take care of it.

    Is you shifting pretty smooth, even when pedaling slowly?
    Yes it is. I actually had to follow the chain line straight out with the file in order to clean it up enough to get no chain rub. I have almost no visible clearance but the is no rub while pedaling slowly on the stand. You might have to clean it out out a little more. Get that derailleur stop adjustment correct and then the cable tension straight and the opposite end (larger cogs) might work itself out. I do wish there was more room in that area.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Yes it is. I actually had to follow the chain line straight out with the file in order to clean it up enough to get no chain rub. I have almost no visible clearance but the is no rub while pedaling slowly on the stand. You might have to clean it out out a little more. Get that derailleur stop adjustment correct and then the cable tension straight and the opposite end (larger cogs) might work itself out. I do wish there was more room in that area.
    I cleaned it out as much as is possible with a dremel. The glue line is actually lower than the bridge carbon surface. As you can see from the picture below, even with the Shimano setup, there was rubbing on the carbon surface beyond the glue line. It just seems it is quite a bit worse with XX1 kit and I am wondering whether that is part of the problem. I ran two different hubs (Mavic with Shimano) and DT Swiss 240 with the XX1.

    I should add that the glue line had been completely rubbed down with the Shimano setup already. I just dremeled down the adjacent areas on the glue line. I just don't know whether this is the reason for the poor shifting or not.

    Hans - Official Ibis XX1 Compatibility?-hd-dropout.jpg

    P.S. The glue line looks worse than it is due to the flash and macro level picture taking.

  9. #34
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    XX1 is part of the issue and I had to clean a more forward in the painted (on my bike carbon) area. I used a rat tail file, then a smooth half moon shape file, from the bond line where the chain is and forward. I your case removing just the paint might be enough.

  10. #35
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    Hans - any rough ETA on the next update?

  11. #36
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    I also filed a little more in front than just the glue line. Mainly the paint.

    What really did the job though was adding the small washer (0.5mm) on the axle towards the dropout.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelly_NH View Post
    Hans - any rough ETA on the next update?
    We just got some more parts to test and will probably be able to give another update next week. We should be mostly done by that point.

    H

  13. #38
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    I would be interested in knowing what Anne Carro and other pros have been finding, they have been running this groupset for longer than me even.

    Id have to question peoples setups, some small differences? but thats all it takes, mine has been flawless and Ive not spaced or filed anything, its taken a beating these last few months and kept coming back asking for more, nothing Ive ridden has come close shifting is exceptional, Ive only ridden XTR, XO for the last decade so Im used to top end transmissions.

    Id like to see some measurments between a 10spd rear and bb etc & setup to the XX1 for comparison! on the same wheels, nothing can be different other than the group, diagnosis must be clear then we can see a clear picture if setups are installed correctly or not.

    I cant do this as I don't have any 10spd kit anymore, plus I don't have this problem or I would be taking it to my LBS for some direct comparisons with a digital calliper.

    Every added gear over the last 10years has become more sensitive to setup each time, 7-8 8-9 9-10 now 11spd it very sensitive to barrel adjust, b screw, chain length.

    This groupset is supposed to fit any bike that can run 10spd with same space, the only difference is a 10t cog!

    Theyre is a different ratio between gears on the cassette that might take some time to get used too, but Ive not found this its very quick imeadiate
    and for me trustworthy every time I shift. The rear d does not move like a traditional rd so comparisons are moot, this will feel different too and it does, for me thats better, if you like Shimano shifting maybe not.

    So maybe I got lucky or it was just well installed.

  14. #39
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    Looking at this issue closer to me it seems like a spacing problem with the std rear derailluer hanger, the indentation on the hanger to guide and seat the maxle axle brings the 10t cog to close to the frame bridge for the chains stay and seat stay.

    I tried a couple of nylon washers from my spare flat pedal parts to see what difference this could make, these are quite thin hence 2 and its major, it brings the chain-line from the 10t well clear of the stays.

    So I reckon a redesigned rear d hanger is required for 11spd groups this will only become more of an issue once XO and X9 groups get released.

    I find it hard to believe no one has had an issue with 10spd setups.

    I think if you were riding in granny and the 11t gog at the rear you would get the same issue.

    Due to the 10t cog, a smaller than normal main front chain ring, benefits of XX1 its highlighting a potential problem, surely if it wasnt then other brands would be having issues as well.

    Also Im not asking Ibis to replace this as some warranty thing just another design if this is the case because its only my best eye after having a close close look at it, hence suggesting it.

    I would happily pay for a redesigned rear hanger for XX1 if this is the case, spacers just too flip floppy and easily lost not a good fix for such a stunning frame, filing no way, mine was alway close but posed no problems but I would like it std where it is now.

    Thoughts?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    XX1 is part of the issue and I had to clean a more forward in the painted (on my bike carbon) area. I used a rat tail file, then a smooth half moon shape file, from the bond line where the chain is and forward. I your case removing just the paint might be enough.
    I missed this but it pretty much sums up what Ive said, how can it be an XX1 issue when the glue line was already worn down by his previous Shimano setup?

    Its too close regardless, something not right with the std spacing, Ill try to get a look at a friends 10spd setup tommorrow on his Mojo HD.

  16. #41
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    I also had to file a little in front of the glue line. Even after that it was still hitting a little when I shifted up from the 10T, but it wore everything in on it's own after that.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick005 View Post


    I missed this but it pretty much sums up what Ive said, how can it be an XX1 issue when the glue line was already worn down by his previous Shimano setup?

    Its too close regardless, something not right with the std spacing, Ill try to get a look at a friends 10spd setup tommorrow on his Mojo HD.
    Even 10 Speed was close on mine, though it did not rub paint, I originally had a frameskin piece there and the chain tore it right off, so not much room at all. A thin washer is a good temporary fix, and in the garage set up, it's fine. My only thought would what happens when your in the trail and pull off the rear wheel and lose the washer(s) in the grass or dirt. I've lost plenty of things when changing a tire. A redesigned hanger is great or even a slightly longer end cap from DT Swiss or custom one from Ibis would be more permanent. I know its supposed to be 142mm but whether its a washer or hanger redesign or end cap, we could use just a little more room. I would guess 2mm would be more than enough. I hated to file my new, unused frame!!!!!!!! I think I even cried a little, those frame are too beautiful to have to do that!

  18. #43
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    A new hanger design would be more definite. Right now, I glued the washer with epoxy to the hanger. Like that it stays at its place.

    The ride quality easily makes up for it though.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcoton21 View Post
    A new hanger design would be more definite. Right now, I glued the washer with epoxy to the hanger. Like that it stays at its place.

    The ride quality easily makes up for it though.
    Good thinking, but you're right, a more permanent solution would be better.

  20. #45
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    Great stuff guys, while I have been getting away with it, it still bothered me that others were having a problem that to me just didnt make sense and potentially I could too.

    Both solutions are a great idea bpd and like you I know I would lose or forget a washer or spacer sooner or later esspecially on the trail where Im easily distracted, I feel for you filing the frame.

    Just shouldnt have to do that, never seemed to me like a solution, not cracking on Ibis here but I was very surprised by that idea.

    I'm a big beliver when something is wrong on the trail or when building something its better to sit down with a beer in hand not so easy when riding and not rush it, break the problem down and nut it out and I'm not the most patient dude, but experience has shown this is cheaper and usually faster in the end.

    I sorta wished Id looked more into deeper sooner and normally would with any other bike build, I normally dont have 2 totally new to me components so have some sort of reference, plus I have gotten really lazy over the last few years and let my LBS do everything because theyre good and I just want to ride.

    Anyway its not hard to sort or expensive for Ibis.

  21. #46
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    Anyone with XX1 on SL-R with I9's?
    There's a feeling I get
    When I look to the West
    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  22. #47
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    Same rubbing issue on a 10 speed. I thought it was the XTR cassette, but swapped out to my XX and same rubbing issue when going from 11 cog to 12 (11-36 setup). The fix is to simply use a 1mm washer between the hub and drop out, but as per below, you just have to remember that there's a washer there when you remove the axle. I may just glue the washer on to the drop out next time the wheel is apart.


    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Even 10 Speed was close on mine, though it did not rub paint, I originally had a frameskin piece there and the chain tore it right off, so not much room at all. A thin washer is a good temporary fix, and in the garage set up, it's fine. My only thought would what happens when your in the trail and pull off the rear wheel and lose the washer(s) in the grass or dirt. I've lost plenty of things when changing a tire. A redesigned hanger is great or even a slightly longer end cap from DT Swiss or custom one from Ibis would be more permanent. I know its supposed to be 142mm but whether its a washer or hanger redesign or end cap, we could use just a little more room. I would guess 2mm would be more than enough. I hated to file my new, unused frame!!!!!!!! I think I even cried a little, those frame are too beautiful to have to do that!

  23. #48
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    What about running a non XX1 crankset with the XX1 cassette, rear D, shifter and chain? If you run no guide you'll probably drop your chain since your not using the XX1 chain ring which helps hold the chain on the ring. But if you are willing to run a full guide or a top guide wouldn't this prevent chain drops? You can run an XX1 crankset with a 10spd drivetain so why couldn't you do the opposite.

  24. #49
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    Ping for update

  25. #50
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    Here's an update:

    We've found that our bikes generally fit the XX-1 without issue. The tightest set up is on the HD. As you know, it is close. It is possible to modify the frame slightly to gain clearance, or as you have noted, run a shim washer between the dropout and the hub.

    We could cnc some hangers that incorporate the greater width of the spacer so you don't have to worry about them falling off when you remove the wheel.

    Question: Is there interest for the HD spacer dropout hanger?
    If we see support for it, we'll make some.

    Regarding the hub compatibility, many of the hub suppliers have yet to get the XX-1 freehub bodies in stock as of this date 3/28/2013.

    DT (240S) is a solid choice at the moment if you are looking for good hubs to build up your wheels. We noted that the small differences in hub width and cassette location between hubs are not a problem on most of our bikes.

    Hope this helps and we welcome any comments / interest level on the need for the wider hangers for increasing clearance on HD frames.

    H

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