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  1. #1
    Stripes
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    New question here. Good rear tire for the HD

    I hate asking this question, especially with the variety of terrain. But I ride in the Santa Cruz area where Ibis is designed, so I figured to ask.

    Right now, I'm running a Spesh Butcher SX 2.3 in the front (looove this tire really), but in the back I'm running a Spesh Captain 2.2 Control. Good rear tire, except it skids instead of breaking on the DH. I really really hate that, especially on a root drop section and sliding on a bunch of rocks covered by dead leaves.

    Any suggestions that are better that aren't going to kill me completely on the climbs? I usually ride a combo of forest/roots, sand/rocks, and loam. Thanks, and happy new year.

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    I'm pretty happy with a ground control 2.3 . . . have liked the Nobby Nic 2.35 as well. They roll fast but give you traction when you need it, and the weight is good.

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    I was using a Nobby Nic 2.25. It had huge amounts of traction for everything i needed. But then the sidewall got torn open, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacarbon View Post
    I'm pretty happy with a ground control 2.3 . . . have liked the Nobby Nic 2.35 as well. They roll fast but give you traction when you need it, and the weight is good.
    I really like the ground control tire also. The traction is exceptional both with cornering and braking.

  5. #5
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    I will be interested in following these responses. I used Ground control 2.3 rear and Hans Dampf front all last season and was very happy.

  6. #6
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    Maxxis dhr2 tr. 2.3

  7. #7
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    I ran a captain control for a longtime and really like that tire. I still really like it but wanted a tire with more braking control on the steeps. The dhr2 has been great so far. It is a bit heavier than the captain but it rolls surprisingly well. Maybe not as well as the captain but I don't curse it for bring a slow roller. Like you, I also really like the butchers up front.

  8. #8
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    Hmmm, been running the captains for several years with no issues, or at least none I've been aware of. Might be time to try something new.

  9. #9
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    Hr2 rolls mega slow. Great traction. Try a 60a butcher out back

  10. #10
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    Specialized Bicycle Components

    780 grams, 60a compound. Check your guage. Nobody over 120 pounds should be running 25psi or less

  11. #11
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    Good rear tire for the HD

    Another option to consider (from specialized) is the Purgatory 2.3. I was really happy with it as a rear tire while running a Hans Dampf in front. They changed the purgatory a bit for 2013 to decrease rolling resistance and it's a solid tire.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmanfred View Post
    I will be interested in following these responses. I used Ground control 2.3 rear and Hans Dampf front all last season and was very happy.
    This was going to be my tire combo of choice but the Hans damn is super expensive so I went with a purgatory up front and I'm stoked on the traction of the front/rear tire combo.

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    Love my Weirwolfs...roll fast and climb really well.

    You may want to look into changing your setup if you're skidding a lot.?

    • Shorter Stem.
    • Raise the Bars.
    • Running a dropper?
    • Smaller rear rotor so there's a little less braking power?


    I find that I get a looser rear end while braking and climbing when I run a longer stem on my HD.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fullcoilmojo View Post
    This was going to be my tire combo of choice but the Hans damn is super expensive so I went with a purgatory up front and I'm stoked on the traction of the front/rear tire combo.
    The Hans Dampf perfomance compound is usually about $40 online and holds up great.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Specialized Bicycle Components

    780 grams, 60a compound. Check your guage. Nobody over 120 pounds should be running 25psi or less
    I run 22 psi in the rear and 19 front...

    The Hans Dampf in Pacestar compound works well in the rear and will hold up. Trailstar not so much.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I run 22 psi in the rear and 19 front...

    The Hans Dampf in Pacestar compound works well in the rear and will hold up. Trailstar not so much.
    Your guage must be off or your tires never leave the air

  17. #17
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    Both digital and analog read the same. Respect your opinions, but some people can get away with it. Two of my friends flatted at our local Enduro race yesterday with over 40 PSI, but I was fine with 22 PSI. Just to prove I am not riding paved bike trails here is a prerun of Stage 1 from yesterday. The section after the right off the fire road is a sustained -20% grade.



    Sorry about the video quality. I tried Youtube's smoothing and it made the video look like an LSD trip.

  18. #18
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    +1 to getting away with lower pressures - I think it depends on a variety of factors, including where I ride, how hard I am riding, and tire/rim combinations. Currently I weight 130lbs, and ride I9 Torch Enduro rims that have a 26mm internal width, with NN 2.35 in front and Ground Control 2.3 rear. With this setup, I'm running 17psi front and 19-20psi rear (digital and analog gauges match up on this as well, cause I'm neurotic haha). This serves me pretty well for most of the XC trails in Norcal, although I do get some rear end wiggle/tire squirm when I hit the berms hard at the flow trail. But again - I'm a light guy, running some high volume casing tires on generous rims.

  19. #19
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    Nobody fast I know runs pressure that low. Its not a matter of flatting, its a matter of the tire rolling, and guranteed rim impacts. If you put any kind of real lateral load on a wheel with a tire at 20 PSI its going to roll, squirm big time, and possibly burp, or unseat. If you air and then land in any kind of roughness you're hitting rim.....unless you weigh 120+/- pounds. The only time I'd ever want to "get away" with such low pressure would be if I burped and had no pump and had to limp it back. I run roughly 28-30 front, and 30-32 rear and sometimes will air down just a little from there depending on conditions (and sometimes higher if its mega rocky) I weigh 170-175 pounds. 20 PSI would just be a joke for me, the bike would be all over the place and I'd probably peel a tire right off the rim. In my opininon 25 is about the lowest anyone should go riding 5"+ enduro bikes and weighing 140 pounds and up

    I'm using motorcycle racetrack tire vendor verified guages (lol) and minion 2.5's on 28mm easton havocs.

  20. #20
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    Watched the video,there was enough chunk to make me believe your guage is off. 20 PSI through that is a joke. I'd be banging rim all day or riding like a ballerina. Didn't see any major lateral loading tho, or jumping off of anything to gap, altho there looked to be some flowy turns at the end. Where is that?

    Dude If I ran 20 PSI, and landed anything sideways in a hip, or cornered hard enough I would be on my ass. I just don't get why people love running such low pressure, there is no benefit. And how will you ever step your game up and learn to go faster and get better if your basic bike setup isn't right? Tire pressure is totally rider weight dependant so anyone reading this needs to take that into consideration. If you're a lightweight then less pressure is okay. I'd setup a 100 pound woman's bike with pretty low pressure but any grown man weighing over 160 pounds is gonna need 25 and up

    EDIT: Are either of those schwables the 1.5 PLY versions? The 1000g tires? I could see barely getting away with that low of pressure if you are running the super beef casings

  21. #21
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    Hans Dampf Trailstar up front and Conti MK II Protection rear on Easton Haven carbon wheels. I weigh 185 and load a lot of bermed corners very hard without issue. Not too many people can get away with this and ride at speed without flats, but there are a few of us weirdos.

  22. #22
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    Its not flats, its squirm and tire roll. The Conti's are huuuuge tho, if there was ever a tire you could run that low I'd say that is it. Whatever floats your boat I guess, If you're truly raping berms like you say, I can't see your guage being right.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Nobody fast I know runs pressure that low. Its not a matter of flatting, its a matter of the tire rolling, and guranteed rim impacts. If you put any kind of real lateral load on a wheel with a tire at 20 PSI its going to roll, squirm big time, and possibly burp, or unseat. If you air and then land in any kind of roughness you're hitting rim.....unless you weigh 120+/- pounds.

    Well . . . guess I'm not fast then haha. Strava must be lying to me! And yes Yody, I have seen your Strava times on my local trails and 80-90% of the time, you are faster than me - so I am not doubting your prowess! But you're only by seconds, not minutes, and I have you on a few segments. So don't completely invalidate my opinion, please!

    But like I said - I AM only 130 lbs, and I DO feel squirm on the flow trail. But everything else I do around where I live, including the rougher trails (solstice, china camp backside, perinickle, etc), I don't have issues with burping/unseating, and I've yet to hear my rims wanging.

    If I want to rip flow trail hard, or the bermed/jump trails where I used to live in NC like Warrior Creek/Dark Mountain, then I do need to put more pressure in my tires, but it would not be more than 20psi front/22 rear. There are some advantages to being a pipsqueak, I guess!

    The schwalbes I run are the EVO/TLR versions ... they are pretty light, about 600g per tire. The advantage of running low pressures is increased traction, comfort, and speed. It's the same story over and over again, in both mountain biking and road biking - enough pressure to prevent rolling and rim hits, but less in order to improve the traction and rollover speed. That's why I run my road bike tires at 85 psi on wide rims (HED ardennes) with wide tires (25c). All of the tests have shown that the tires roll smoother, faster, and with better traction with those lower pressures. No pro pumps their road tires to 160 psi anymore. Similarly, for someone my weight, 30psi on my mountain bike would be WAY overinflated - I'd be bouncing off of things most of the time, instead of gripping and rolling over them.

    I think it just goes to show how much weight and tire/rim selection have to do with bicycle setups, and how people like to ride!

  24. #24
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    Yah you weigh 130 pounds, your pretty much are proving exactly my point, even at that low weight you're still squirming but could you imagine weighing 50 pounds more and running the same tire pressure?? Like I said tire pressure is similar to shock pressure, its largely about body weight, but also very importantly how fast you ride and skill level. at 130 I'd say 22 is still low, but not unreasonable. Most people I know are in the 150-180 weight.

    Nice to know you're comparing notes on strava lol, I don't take strava too seriously. It is what it is. I'm not much of a sprinter, so my Strava times aren't always "all that", not racing the clock but I do enjoy ending the ride and seeing a top ten haha . To get good times on Strava you pretty much have to be on the gas everywhere, all that does is tire me out I'm not on here saying I'm the fastest guy ever and if you wanna be on my level than you can't run low pressure. and anyway, strava doesn't tell you what lines anyones taking or how they are riding the trail. I've always just been an xc trail rider who has kept bumping up the skill level. So I've already been thru many of the stages of bike setups, and can relate to other riders who are trying to get better who come from an xc background. I've ran low pressure, low compression suspension, big high volume light weight tires, and so on. If it wasn't for me changing my setup as my speed increased I don't think I'd be where I'm at now.

    Anyway doesn't matter who's faster by seconds, just if you're riding at a certain level, there are certain bike setups that work and don't work. Lot of guys online (not necc this thread) talking about 20psi are riding mostly xc, stay seated much of the time, tires never leave the ground, and never load the tires hard enough in a turn for the low pressure to be an issue. They just want the bike to ride them, not the other way around. So soft mushy suspension and soft tires make them feel like they have gobs of traction and complicancy, which is fine, but will limit them if they want to learn to pick up the pace. Linear suspension, low compression, and low pressure tires are not good for aggressive riding....in my opinion.

    The biggest problem with these online tire pressure comparos is most peoples guages are not correct.

    Oh and you guys are acting like I'm saying to run 40 PSI, when does 28-30 PSI count as "high pressure"??
    Last edited by Yody; 01-06-2014 at 03:04 PM.

  25. #25
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    I was right there with you on tire pressures, Yody, until lacing up some Derby rims. On my Flows I was 29-30psi min rear, 26-27 front, and I'm about 15 lbs lighter than you... and at those pressures I've folded the rim beads down front and rear in quite a few places.

    Now with the higher volume of the Derby's I'm running 22f/24r, with LESS squirm than the higher pressures on the Flows, and the absorbent feel and increased traction up, down, and turning is awesome!

    I never have understood how average weight guys on average width rims/tires could get away with those pressures either....kinda figured it was either riding easy trails not very quickly, or tire gauge variance.

    I guess Salespunk, and others, just have more credits in the tire karma bank!

  26. #26
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    IF you weigh 180 and ride with 20 psi in your tires, would you also run 120 PSI in your shock and 40 psi in your fork? NO, because the bike would be mushy and you'd bottom out way too easy.....same exact thing applies to tires.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I was right there with you on tire pressures, Yody, until lacing up some Derby rims. On my Flows I was 29-30psi min rear, 26-27 front, and I'm about 15 lbs lighter than you... and at those pressures I've folded the rim beads down front and rear in quite a few places.

    Now with the higher volume of the Derby's I'm running 22f/24r, with LESS squirm than the higher pressures on the Flows, and the absorbent feel and increased traction up, down, and turning is awesome!

    I never have understood how average weight guys on average width rims/tires could get away with those pressures either....kinda figured it was either riding easy trails not very quickly, or tire gauge variance.

    I guess Salespunk, and others, just have more credits in the tire karma bank!
    My gripe with the Derby wheels and any wheel 35mm+ width is that none of these tires on the market were designed for such a wide rim, Not only does it seem like the tire profile would be too stretched and not correct, won't you hit rim all the time when leaned over thru rough?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Its not flats, its squirm and tire roll. The Conti's are huuuuge tho, if there was ever a tire you could run that low I'd say that is it. Whatever floats your boat I guess, If you're truly raping berms like you say, I can't see your guage being right.
    Should have noted I only run the 2.2 in the rear and don't have any problems with tire squirm. Again, just my style of riding.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Should have noted I only run the 2.2 in the rear and don't have any problems with tire squirm. Again, just my style of riding.
    How do you categorize your style of riding

  30. #30
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    I weight 180 ready to ride and can say 28-30 in the rear and 26-28 front seems to be the sweet spot for my weight. Any less psi and I start to get that tire folding on the rim sensation. At 28psi in the rear I have had a handful of rim strikes hard enough to cut my tire on the rim. My HDR is setup 26" 160mm with a sporty feeling suspension, 2.35 hans dapf rear and 2.35 bontrager xr4 front on wtbi23 rims tubeless.
    I think rider weight and where you ride have a lot to do with what psi you can get away with. The park I ride most because its just a few miles away is loaded with square edge and pointed rocks.

    Heres a short vid showing my local park. I wasn't pushing my speed, due to a herniated disk at the time I recorded so im riding slow, but you get a sense of the rocks.
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qtWB7ygn8-M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  31. #31
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    ^yup

    EDIT: Dude I ride rockville all the time, In fact your bike with the blue bars look famillar!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    ^yup

    EDIT: Dude I ride rockville all the time, In fact your bike with the blue bars look famillar!
    Haha!
    Im sure you seen me there, I ride it atleast once a week. I sold the hd in the vid to a friend, but he rides there as much as I do. I now have a reverse Vitp HDR, but still riding 26" 160mm. Say whats up next time if you see me riding!



    Ok, back on topic. Sorry for the derail Stripes.

  33. #33
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    Notice any improvement in ride quality with the HDR frame?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Notice any improvement in ride quality with the HDR frame?
    Not in the frame itself, but more in my build. For the hdr I upgraded to a pike, xx1 and carbon bars and lost around 2 lbs from the hd I had. The biggest improvement I notice is the fork. My old fork was a 2012 fox float 36 160.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Spesh has a nice trade-in policy
    Spesh has a tire trade-in policy? please explain

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    How do you categorize your style of riding
    I like high speeds and rocks similar to the video I posted. Definitely a descender and usually top 10 on most of the trails I hit. Here is another video of a local jump line. Only my second time down the trail so I skipped some of the bigger gaps.


  37. #37
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    Good rear tire for the HD

    Killer sky in your video, SP....trail looks fun too.

  38. #38
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    Ran a Purgatory grid version most of the year in Tahoe and was pretty happy with it, but it was kinda a pig weight wise, the control versions would not last me a week in Tahoe before I tore a side wall, I'll never buy another Spec tire, got so tired of those paper thin sidewalls.

    Changed over to a DHR II 2.3 mid November for Bay area rides, Santa Cruz, Pacifica, Coe. Been happy with it, less weight than the Grid I was running, rolls pretty good, drifts predictably in the steep dry corners that are out there right now, I'll be rolling this in the back for the foreseeable future.
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  39. #39
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    Stripes- I also ride in Santa Cruz (lots of Hwy 9 trails). I was running a Butcher/Purgatory combo since fall, and it hooked up great on all steep/loose/rocky sections. However, I hate Speshy, so I'm Sharpie-ing out the letters until I find a good replacement!

    I got a new (used) HD 3 weeks ago that came with Nobby Nics. I have very little confidence in leaning them into turns, and I've had some sliding issues on the really steep stuff.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    I opted for the Purg Grid (730g), which is much lighter than the Captain UST I was rocking before (850g-ish)
    Are you sure it's a grid? those things are listed at 900+ grams, the one I was running was certainly not that light in a 2.3
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  41. #41
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    Got it, the 2bliss version instead of UST, maybe I'll give those a try some time, I did really like a Purgatory on the back and a Butcher up Front, but the sidewalls on the controls are paper thin, The UST Grids were Bomber but were just to porky.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Got it, the 2bliss version instead of UST, maybe I'll give those a try some time, I did really like a Purgatory on the back and a Butcher up Front, but the sidewalls on the controls are paper thin, The UST Grids were Bomber but were just to porky.
    I decided to lose some weight a few years ago and went with the Control instead of the GRID. I regretted that on the first ride when 3 miles in I tore the sidewall. I will run control on the front, but never again on the rear. The GRID takes so much abuse and has never failed. There have been countless time when I thought the tire was going to rip, but nothing happened.

  43. #43
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    I have tried a bunch of tyres lately.
    Personally not a big fan of Hans Dampfs at the moment as it is far too dry.
    The Hans is the better of their range - I don't rate the Nobbys at all in any config and in fact I am a bit bemused about the the whole schwalbe appeal. Their compounds are not in the same league as Maxxis IMO
    Contis can be good but far too expensive out here - `Rubber Queen had ample traction but slow
    Spent a bunch of the summer on High Roller 2s 2.30 TR. Not bad. Rear wore pretty fast but last night I swapped back to a 2.5 EXO 3C Minion up front. For the dry summer conditions here into most of winter I really rate this tyre. I am surprised that it doesn't find more love in the trail/AM community. I think that is due to perception that it is a dh tyre or heavy or whatever. Hardly any punctures - I run them tubeless on Easton Havocs or Light bicycle carbon wheels, great predictable grip, love getting loose, good side knob control and release on off camber and flat corners.
    I run them front and back or as I have right now with a HR2 out back (same setup as Jared Graves enduro bike)
    If you haven't tried a minion do yourself a favour in the summer. It is hands down my favourite tyre of all
    C

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    Personally, I stick to minion dhr 2.35 as rear in the summer, and eskar 2.3 (which is awfully similar to dhr in its pattern) in the winter. The reason for sticking to dhr in summer - it's bombproof. Since we have a lot of thorns and sharp rocks on our trails - it's irreplaceable for such conditions. Eskar on the other hand is considerably light, which is good for clean winter trails.

  45. #45
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    I haven;t run a 2.35 Minion on the back mainly due to the weights of the 60a kevlar vs 2.5 exo being v similar. If the 2.35 ghettos up tubelessly as well as the larger exo I'd be keen to try it

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    Yeah, the dhr 2.35 a little bit heavy, comparing to folding tubeless tires, but it's much-much stronger. It can take an awful beating. But the weight of the rear tire you feel only when you carry the bike around, when you actually roll out - you don't feel it.

    I run it tubeless with no problem on ZTR Flow EX. The initial inflation a little bit tricky, you'll need either really good floor pump with your sgnificant effort, or just hop to anybody who has air compressor. I usually prefer to hop in to any bike store on the way, they have no problem to give it a hand. You can try and inflate at a gas station, but it depends on what kind of machines you have there. Here we have machines, that pump in thrusts, and it's not working for this tire. You'll need steady flow inflation.

  47. #47
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    NZL62 conditions, area and styles play a huge part, Schwalbe probably not the best tires for NZeds range of conditions and may suit most of the US guys better, CH is pretty hardcore terrain and hard on tires, what you run down they're is total overkill for RotoVegas for example.

    But I agree the Minion is one of the best tires ever imo, Ive always been a fan, I run the Ardent here because I can get away with it and they have better lighter compounds, but I only like the Ardent up front in 2.4 and in EXO compound, I find the 2.25 Ardent too squirmy especially in the rear cornering hard, why I run the EXO Icon lower casing profile similar to the Minion but lacks real tread still grips surprising well for what little tread it has.

    My fav rear tire unless riding rocky SI terrain would be the Larsen 2.35 which seems to be dropping off the radar unfortunately as its the best rear tire for me ever, brakes well fast grippy lightish, just the compounds now a bit outdated, a 2.35 in EXO would be awesome matched to a Minion/Ardent depending on terrain.

    Here Id run a Ardent 2.4/Larsen
    in
    CH or in South Island conditions, maybe a Minion DHR 2 TR EXO 3C TR apparently awesome corning tire front and rear.

    Good thing about Maxxis Ive found over Schwalbe or Conti is they work well everywhere, you might find a Conti or Schwalbe tire that maybe better in some conditions at sometimes but like you Ive found them very inconsistent here in NZed conditions, NZ is def a Maxxis country in my experience and Ive had a garage full of tires over the years.

    Where, what, compounds, models go in 27.5" will be interesting, still a little light on 27.5 options here currently.

    My next order ftw will be a DHR 2 for the front 3C/TR/EXO and a Larsen SP wire bead 60a 2.35 only because its all you can get in that model, and an Icon 2.35 3C EXO TR.

    Good hunting.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
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    Man, big +1 on the Larson TT.... that tire was such a sleeper... would love to see one in 27.5 also

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