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  1. #1
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    Frame Flex on Mojo or Mojo SL

    I installed the new annodized upper & lower pivot links to my Mojo.Looks sweeeeet! The one thing that i never noticed untill I installed the new links is the amount of flex between the front & rear triangle? Is this the same on the SL? Basickly all we did was grab the rear wheel while holding the bike & tried twisting back & forth & noticed the amount of flex at the upper link attached to the shock?
    I'm assuming that this was engineered this way? or is there something that I'm missing?

    By the way I ride a Large Mojo. Could this have been the cause of my shifting issues?
    Last edited by scarsellone; 02-19-2008 at 06:51 AM.

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    uh oh, now you've done it.

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    Can someone with more Tech knowledge comment on this issue such as Ibis or DW?
    Did anyone check to see if they had the flex on their Mojo or Mojo SL?

  4. #4
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    type "flex" in search function of this forum.. and voila..! Yes there are many discussion on this topic.
    Do you feel the difference on the ride before and after links change,,?

  5. #5
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    Unfotunetly the weather has not allowed me to try it. I noticed the flex after i changed the links. I'm curious if anyone else has noticed it? Will this become a problem as time passes? i noticed the comparison in the german bike mag, & it mentions flex. I don't question the ride. It ride smooth. I'm more curious if this is designed to take impacts & flex?

  6. #6
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    now i am in the minority, but i noticed flex!!! ride was smooth, suspension near perfect, but i could not get over the torsional flex when in the tight stuff. i rode mine back to back with my giant trance for over 3 months and i could discern noticeable flex in the seat tube and top tube areas. basically i felt it when slinging it side to side and it would flex. i felt it would run wide in the turns no matter what i did. rode the same trails with my trance and would rail through the same stuff way faster, period! just my lousy 2cents
    Last edited by brook_63@yahoo.com; 02-20-2008 at 09:43 PM.

  7. #7
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    Tighten your shock mounts

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook_63@yahoo.com
    now i am in the minority, but i noticed flex!!!
    You are not alone. Depending on the weave of the CF, there will be some initial "slack" in the frame until the carbon fibers come under tension. It it at this point that the frame will begin to stiffen up. This is probably what contributes to the damped feeling that the Mojo has. I've referred to it as a wigglely feeling. Some like it, some don't, and some don't notice.

    A lot of people have mentioned that the rear triangle is flexy. Some claim it's "controlled flex" and part of the magical damping qualities of carbon fiber. I'm going to disagree with those people. If you study the design of the rear triangle, you will notice that the upper half of the rear triangle is only held together by the rear shock eyelet (the two sides of the upper linkage moves independently of each other). The rear shock is not designed for that type of load. What will happen is that the two sides of the rear triangle will not move as one piece, allowing the rear wheel to pivot/wiggle around. This is in no way considered controlled flex. This may smooth out the ride, but it doesn't add control (hence your wider turns).

    Whether all this flex is good or bad is up to debate since I feel that it's somewhat of a personal preference. If you like the ride/performance of a Lexus, then you will like the Mojo. If you prefer a Ferrari, then the Mojo probably isn't the bike for you. Me, I like BMWs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise
    Tighten your shock mounts
    Ya just tighten it until it breaks and back it off half a turn right.

  10. #10
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    complete materials know-nothing here, but i seriously have a hard time believing the carbon fibers tighten with time. that gives me images of the frame actually changing shape to a minute degree. i see clear coat cracking, pivot holes ovalizing or becoming larger, etc. i just don't see it...
    ride fast...take chances...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by iridetitus
    complete materials know-nothing here, but i seriously have a hard time believing the carbon fibers tighten with time. that gives me images of the frame actually changing shape to a minute degree. i see clear coat cracking, pivot holes ovalizing or becoming larger, etc. i just don't see it...
    The tension of the carbon fiber doesn't change with time. What I meant to say was that as you start to bend a piece of carbon fiber, the fibers begin to tighten and the rigidity of the piece increases.

    For example, say you take a piece of carbon fiber and gently bend it 1 degree. At this point none of the fibers are under tension, so only the resin is providing the strength. As you bend the piece some more, the fibers come under tension and start to provide additional strength. So for small defections, aluminum can be stiffer than carbon fiber. But as the deflection increases, the carbon fiber can become much stiffer. This lack of stiffness at low deflections is one reason why carbon fiber seems to damp vibrations, but still be structurally stiff.

    The behavior of carbon fiber depends on a lot of things, such as the weave, the resin, and so on. For example, Trek has their OCLV, optimal-compaction, low-void, carbon fiber. What they are basically trying to do is to achieve a tighter weave, so that their frames will still be stiff at low deflections.

    With all things being equal, the Mojo SL should be stiffer than the regular Mojo since Ibis is using a stronger (higher modulus) carbon fiber. Anyone have a chance to ride both side by side?

  12. #12
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    Ya just tighten it until it breaks and back it off half a turn right.
    Technique seems to have worked just fine on your brain Johnny HB

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise
    Ya just tighten it until it breaks and back it off half a turn right.
    Technique seems to have worked just fine on your brain Johnny HB
    Its called sarcasm look it up.

  14. #14
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    Can anyone comment on the shape of the Sl anodized links vs the Nickle plated Std Mojo links? I have observed noticable flex in the rear swingarm of the SL setup, and wonder if it is a function of the links or the Sl swingarm itself?
    Last edited by buggymancan; 03-07-2008 at 09:34 PM.

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    any thoughts?

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    I would send a PM to Hans at Ibis and ask him the question.

    The flex discussions on the forum have been odd in a way. I'm relatively heavy at 185 lbs and there are times when I ride hard considering my grey hair. Flex of my standard Mojo with standard links has not been an issue that has bothered me so far.

    The swingarm design looks like it would flex more than some others that have a brace connecting the two sides beyond the upper link. I don't know how much of that can be mitigated by a very strong composite part.

    The differences in how people perceive flex in their Mojos might be the result of fabrication tolerances or maybe just personal sensitivity.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_ca
    The differences in how people perceive flex in their Mojos might be the result of fabrication tolerances or maybe just personal sensitivity.
    Or they could simply be mistaken about what they are feeling. I had a wheel loosen up so fast once that I thought something broke. I haven't ridden a Mojo yet so I don't know if they flex unusually or in a way that I will find unacceptable or not.
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  18. #18
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    From my opinion, a little bit of flex is good cause of dampening and if you crash, you most likely wont damaged the frame badly.

    Too much flex is bad especially for a DW bike. If you went through DW posts bout DW-Link, he has mentioned about the amount of acceptable flex on the DW-Link. I forgot wats the value.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook_63@yahoo.com
    now i am in the minority, but i noticed flex!!! ride was smooth, suspension near perfect, but i could not get over the torsional flex when in the tight stuff. i rode mine back to back with my giant trance for over 3 months and i could discern noticeable flex in the seat tube and top tube areas. basically i felt it when slinging it side to side and it would flex. i felt it would run wide in the turns no matter what i did. rode the same trails with my trance and would rail through the same stuff way faster, period! just my lousy 2cents
    Brooke, Are you speaking of the SL? and what is your rider weight?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarsellone
    I installed the new annodized upper & lower pivot links to my Mojo.Looks sweeeeet! The one thing that i never noticed untill I installed the new links is the amount of flex between the front & rear triangle? Is this the same on the SL? Basickly all we did was grab the rear wheel while holding the bike & tried twisting back & forth & noticed the amount of flex at the upper link attached to the shock?
    I'm assuming that this was engineered this way? or is there something that I'm missing?

    By the way I ride a Large Mojo. Could this have been the cause of my shifting issues?
    Go try the same flex tests on other bikes. You'll find the flex of other mountain bikes with similar travel and use is close to the same as the Mojo. With this much travel only some heavier "faux-bar" monopivots such as Kona, Turner, and Trek have stiffer rear wheel flex.

    The fork flex is much more important factor for handling rocks and cornering. The rear wheel pretty much follows the front. If the rear end is stiffer than the fork then handling balance suffers with too much rear sideways chatter or side bounce. It's rare to find forks any stiffer than the flex of the Mojo without going to heavy 20mm axle AM forks. A lighter XC fork with quick release 5mm axle is well balanced for XC/enduro riding, but is a less than completely confidence inspiring on very rocky sections. A 20mm axle AM fork balances the Mojo perfectly for extremely rocky trail handling.

  21. #21
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    I totally agree. You need a certain amount of flex. In 1996 Honda went to an
    aluminum frame. The riders were getting thrown off a lot that year. 4 generations later,
    the Honda is a great handling bike, with the addition of more flex in the right places. The Ibis is less flexy than the ellsworth I just sold.
    The Ibis is the most capable xc bike out there IMO. The tires flex a whole lot more anyway.
    Mitch
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  22. #22
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    Again,

    Are you talking about a Std. Mojo or a Mojo Sl? If so, I agree with you on the former, but find the later (Mojo SL) flex, well frankly unacceptable. It seems to stem fron the rear swingarm. Any comments?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    Again,

    Are you talking about a Std. Mojo or a Mojo Sl? If so, I agree with you on the former, but find the later (Mojo SL) flex, well frankly unacceptable. It seems to stem fron the rear swingarm. Any comments?
    I haven't ridden the SL nor have I tried the seat-post/top-of-wheel flex test on the SL. I doubt if there is visible or a tactile difference. The Super-High Modulus CF of the SL is supposed to be stiffer, but geometry is the major factor.

    When you flex test by holding a hand grip and pushing the BB sideways there are very few bikes with less visible and tactile flex.

    Perhaps you tested a bike with some pivot bearing slop or flexy rear wheel.

    To produce a 4.5 pound frame without shock with 5.5 inches of travel, I doubt we will see less flex from any manufacturer for many years.

    There are a few 5.5 inch travel bikes with less flex, but with any of those bikes with less flex you will tradeoff having much added weight, less active or less stable suspension than a dw-link, and noticeable pedaling performance losses (besides other dw-links).

    Ibis had their priorities right in producing the world’s most versatile mountain bike when they designed the Mojo Carbon and SL.

  24. #24
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    This is getting confusing here. I've heard that the SL is stiffer than the regular Mojo, now I'm hearing that it's not. I've been told that flex is good, now I'm hearing that the Mojo has less flex than other bikes??? What gives?

    Unless there is a lot of variation between production frames, the Mojo is one of the more flexy frames that I've come across. Side by side comparison with my Stumpjumper FSR (which I don't consider that stiff) was noticeable enough that I had to get off the Mojo to see if the seat was loose. I also have a 5" travel Enduro that is stiffer than both bikes.

    My hypothesis is that while aluminum/steel has a more linear deflection vs. force curve (the definition of stiffness), carbon fiber has a progressive curve. Small forces will deflect the Mojo frame a fair amount, but once you get crankin' the frame stiffens up. So for those of you who say that the frame is stiff, maybe you aren't noticing the initial (low-force) flex of the frame.

    I guess that instead of saying that the Mojo is flexy, I should say that it has a high degree of defection for the loads that I apply while riding. I notice this both visually (parking lot test) and while riding. Don't get me wrong, I still like the Mojo and may end up purchasing one, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that the frame is "stiff".

  25. #25
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    my mojo is the standard with a dt.
    Mitch
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    This is getting confusing here. I've heard that the SL is stiffer than the regular Mojo, now I'm hearing that it's not. I've been told that flex is good, now I'm hearing that the Mojo has less flex than other bikes??? What gives?

    Unless there is a lot of variation between production frames, the Mojo is one of the more flexy frames that I've come across. Side by side comparison with my Stumpjumper FSR (which I don't consider that stiff) was noticeable enough that I had to get off the Mojo to see if the seat was loose. I also have a 5" travel Enduro that is stiffer than both bikes.

    My hypothesis is that while aluminum/steel has a more linear deflection vs. force curve (the definition of stiffness), carbon fiber has a progressive curve. Small forces will deflect the Mojo frame a fair amount, but once you get crankin' the frame stiffens up. So for those of you who say that the frame is stiff, maybe you aren't noticing the initial (low-force) flex of the frame.

    I guess that instead of saying that the Mojo is flexy, I should say that it has a high degree of defection for the loads that I apply while riding. I notice this both visually (parking lot test) and while riding. Don't get me wrong, I still like the Mojo and may end up purchasing one, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that the frame is "stiff".
    Bitter Dave, I like the little stick figure of you.

    I have a Carbon Rush and it is stiffer than my aluminum Prophet. I think the reason is because carbon is so light, the tubing can be very large and therefore the stiffness would be attributed to the large moment of inertia.

    The Mojo's weak "link" is what you mentioned earlier. The upper links move indepedently of one another and are only kept from being torqued by the shock. There needs to be another way of attaching the links together like clamping the links to the pivot shaft and putting the bearings into the frame.
    Mabey future Mojos will have an improved upper link assembly since it is going to have to keep up with Brian now.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Mabey future Mojos will have an improved upper link assembly since it is going to have to keep up with Brian now.
    The Mojo is very stiff where a bike needs to be, from the head tube to BB, and across the drivetrain axis - BB to rear hub. If yours feels flexy while riding, then check your tires, fork, and shock pressures and damping, or look for worn pivot bearing slop, or loose wheel spokes.

    PUSH Industries is developing a unified upper linkage design in aluminum, possibly also of carbon fiber if there's enough demand. It will reduce the seat-post/top-of-wheel twist flex test noticeably. Pedaling, braking, or speeds won't be improved, but there will be more feedback feel in the seat from bumps while cornering and from bigger rocks all the time. Will the increased feedback feel better to you? There will be some increased feel advantage traversing and crawling and hopping along the sides of big rock faces, but is the harsher feedback all the other time worth this advantage to you?

    We'll get some empirical evidence soon whether the Mojo is just very good or really a great bike later this year when Lopes competitors are suddenly faster or not. It goes without saying the obvious... why else would an already wealthy world champ race a Mojo when he could ride any other brand?

  28. #28
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    PUSH Industries is developing a unified upper linkage design in aluminum, possibly also of carbon fiber if there's enough demand. It will reduce the seat-post/top-of-wheel twist flex test noticeably. Pedaling, braking, or speeds won't be improved, but there will be more feedback feel in the seat from bumps while cornering and from bigger rocks all the time. Will the increased feedback feel better to you? There will be some increased feel advantage traversing and crawling and hopping along the sides of big rock faces, but is the harsher feedback all the other time worth this advantage to you?
    That makes sence cause to my understanding, one of the PUSH guys bought a Mojo right?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelhot
    That makes sence cause to my understanding, one of the PUSH guys bought a Mojo right?
    Yes, Darren who founded PUSH Industries, bought a Mojo last summer and he and his crew have been testing forks and shocks with it. DW has been consulting with them recently on optimizing the shock tunes for the Mojo, and I'd imagine shock tunes for other dw-link bikes.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Yes, Darren who founded PUSH Industries, bought a Mojo last summer and he and his crew have been testing forks and shocks with it. DW has been consulting with them recently on optimizing the shock tunes for the Mojo, and I'd imagine shock tunes for other dw-link bikes.
    Any idea when the finished product will be available??

    I'm thinking about having my my RP23 pushed or getting a CCDB.
    CCDB seems really interesting, but is it overkill for a Mojo?? Or should I wait until Push has the Mojo setup finished and then Push my Fox?

    Or do you have any other ideas for a ultimate Mojo shock?

    I want my Mojo to be real do it all-bike(Maraton races, jumps, small drops, light downhill). It is build only for XC now.I have ordered Pike Air U-Turn to replace a Float RLC to increase front end stiffness and will build a more durable and wider wheelset than my Bonti Race X Lites.
    Last edited by mtok77; 03-09-2008 at 01:40 PM.

  31. #31
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    I would think a guy like Lopes would want the extra feedback...at least at the speeds he is going.
    You are right, lateral stiffness is more important. I keep telling the Prophet owners this. But, with a design like the Mojo(because of the short lower link), lateral stiffness can be comprimised slightly when the upper links move independently of one another. As we have seen from the different comments, whether this is bothersome or not totally depends on the individual.

  32. #32
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    Hey Mitch, I thought you had Middleburn cranks

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtok77
    Any idea when the finished product will be available??

    I'm thinking about having my my RP23 pushed or getting a CCDB.
    CCDB seems really interesting, but is it overkill for a Mojo?? Or should I wait until Push has the Mojo setup finished and then Push my Fox?

    Or do you have any other ideas for a ultimate Mojo shock?

    I want my Mojo to be real do it all-bike(Maraton races, jumps, small drops, light downhill). It is build only for XC now.I have ordered Pike Air U-Turn to replace a Float RLC to increase front end stiffness and will build a more durable and wider wheelset than my Bonti Race X Lites.
    Pardon my ignorance, but what is CCDB?

  34. #34
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    Cane Creek Double Barrel shock

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    Pardon my ignorance, but what is CCDB?
    Cane Creek Double Barrel (coil shock)

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    cranks

    I put the middleburn cranks on the yeti 575, the race face have a better q-factor and are about 40 grams lighter. I am always moving things from bike to bike.

  37. #37
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    It is clear reading these posts that there are some very experienced and knowledgable folk on the forum. For this reason I really hesitate to say it, but the bike performs so differently with very subtle changes in setup I wonder if just missing your personal ideal fork, tire and shock settings could make you wonder about the frame. I agree there is a bit of flex. I like it. I made the mistake of adding 5lb to the Talas 32 and RP23 this weekend and it was a different machine. The aim was to get me more active on the bike as I tend to sit like a fat toad all the time. It did not blow through the rear travel quite as easily (still did bottom on bigger drops to flat), but was relatively poor in every aspect of performance including drops and G outs, but most notable was the loss of climbing ability on tech single track. I felt like a stiff, emphysematous geriatric. I would not be changing the equipment until every conceivable change in setup has been tried (and some not so conceivable too).

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtok77
    Any idea when the finished product will be available??

    I'm thinking about having my my RP23 pushed or getting a CCDB.
    CCDB seems really interesting, but is it overkill for a Mojo?? Or should I wait until Push has the Mojo setup finished and then Push my Fox?

    Or do you have any other ideas for a ultimate Mojo shock?

    I want my Mojo to be real do it all-bike(Maraton races, jumps, small drops, light downhill). It is build only for XC now.I have ordered Pike Air U-Turn to replace a Float RLC to increase front end stiffness and will build a more durable and wider wheelset than my Bonti Race X Lites.
    Call PUSH and ask them about their Mojo upper-link. More demand should get it available sooner. I don't need one but I'd buy one to try it. It may remove about 1/3 of the flex to make it nearly as stiff as the stiffest bikes out there.

    The Mojo is plenty stiff for my AM trail interests. If I was a big jumper I'd want a stiffer rear suspension and stiffer flex for those sessions. Otherwise, for the same reason I prefer more active suspension, I prefer the smoother handling with a little flex.

    Flex feel is an individual preference.

  39. #39
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    Call PUSH and ask them about their Mojo upper-link. More demand should get it available sooner.
    LOL! We have prototypes built and are still in the development stage for the new upper link. It is coming and I'll post up some info once we get closer...

    Darren

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    LOL! We have prototypes built and are still in the development stage for the new upper link. It is coming and I'll post up some info once we get closer...

    Darren
    Bugger.

    I just went the vanity path and got myself some of the Blue anodized links as well. I'll try a push upper link for sure, just to see how it feels.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    LOL! We have prototypes built and are still in the development stage for the new upper link. It is coming and I'll post up some info once we get closer...

    Darren
    I'll definitely be interested.

    Just building my new Mojo now. Will get the RP23 pushed on it's first service to see how much more performance can be squeezed out of it. So a push upper link will be an added bonus.

  42. #42
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    Run away quickly from this thread...no need to be pulled into the 'frame flex' trolling again...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet
    Run away quickly from this thread...no need to be pulled into the 'frame flex' trolling again...

    I suppose this could appear to (or be used by) those with an agenda as an admission of guilt

    Everything can be made better. It's really that simple.

  44. #44
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    Darren, make sure there are colour options for the links and try to get it coloured the same as the current linkage offerings from Ibis .
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  45. #45
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    Darren,

    Again, kudos to Push for proceeding with development of the aftermarket upper link. I agree, that it will only make a great bike better! And kudos to the Ibis Crew for working with Push on this project. The Ibis framesets are awsome and I take my hat off to Ibis for pushing the envelope on perhaps the lightest 5" FS bike. The slight amount of flex being discussed here is much less than that of comprable aluminum frames, and will largely be eliminated with the custom upper link, I suspect.
    Last edited by buggymancan; 03-11-2008 at 08:52 AM.

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    Sl vs. std links and frame flex

    Frame Flex on Mojo or Mojo SL

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I installed the new annodized upper & lower pivot links to my Mojo.Looks sweeeeet! The one thing that i never noticed untill I installed the new links is the amount of flex between the front & rear triangle? Is this the same on the SL? Basickly all we did was grab the rear wheel while holding the bike & tried twisting back & forth & noticed the amount of flex at the upper link attached to the shock?
    I'm assuming that this was engineered this way? or is there something that I'm missing?



    Ok, Here are my observations. I spent the weekend doing a side by side comparison of the standard (nickle coated) original Ibis Mojo links and the new annodized SL links, both on an Sl and Std Mojo frameset. The upper links appear to be identical in weight, cross section and and mass. The lower link, however has been modified (weight is reduced by 20-30 gms and is noticibly thinner in cross section form the original). When installed, noticible static lateral flex can be observed at the BB area and seat mast using the SL lower link.

    Perhaps others can comment on the finite /Cad testing associated with the pared down Sl link, but without question, given this static deflection test (though crude, i.e. rocking the stationary rear wheel back and forth and simple pedaling) yields observable deflection.

    While I salute Ibis for their efforts in shaving grams, it is my opinion that the the case of the lower link this is counter-productive, as it effects frame lateral stiffness and may also effect the drivetrain in the middle ring in the case of the Sl (at least at my riding weight of 174 lbs). These observations are fact not fiction as some on this forum have suggested (even though they confess to not having ridden a an SL frame?). So my solution for now is to go back to the older, proven stiffer link and invest in the proposed PUSH Industries mono-upper link. With these adjustments, the bike is going to be rock solid and is the best ride, bar none!

    Ride on IBIS!

  47. #47
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    Rear flex only, regular Mojo

    I'm one of the few who noticed the flex in my Mojo. I would think the total amount of flex would be a combination of any play, or flex in the linkages and bearings, combined with any flex in the actual stays. My linkages and bearings have held up perfectly in the past year. The amount of flex that could be attributed to the linkages and bearings on my bike is small. I was expecting more. The flex "on my bike" is seen in the actual stays. I think that any help from Push with a stiffer upper linkage will decrease the overall flex. Right now the Mojo is not as stiff as my Tracer was. The Tracer was not the stiffest rear end out there(non captured pivot points). I'll try the Push linkage. The flex is certainly not a reason not to buy or keep a Mojo. The suspension is a reason to buy a Mojo. It is awesome! I took it down some erroded rocky technical DH runs this weekend, and it was so active while braking. Maybe the SL rear end stays are stiffer. By the way, the wheel is not the problem(on mine).
    Don

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmitch2
    I totally agree. You need a certain amount of flex. In 1996 Honda went to an
    aluminum frame. The riders were getting thrown off a lot that year. 4 generations later,
    the Honda is a great handling bike, with the addition of more flex in the right places. The Ibis is less flexy than the ellsworth I just sold.
    The Ibis is the most capable xc bike out there IMO. The tires flex a whole lot more anyway.
    Mitch
    Boise
    1997

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtok77
    Any idea when the finished product will be available??

    I'm thinking about having my my RP23 pushed or getting a CCDB.
    CCDB seems really interesting, but is it overkill for a Mojo?? Or should I wait until Push has the Mojo setup finished and then Push my Fox?

    Or do you have any other ideas for a ultimate Mojo shock?

    I want my Mojo to be real do it all-bike(Maraton races, jumps, small drops, light downhill). It is build only for XC now.I have ordered Pike Air U-Turn to replace a Float RLC to increase front end stiffness and will build a more durable and wider wheelset than my Bonti Race X Lites.
    i don't believe it is overkill. it is the best shock out there. it will be ready for the mojo in a couple weeks, per cane creek.

  50. #50
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    Darren, make sure there are colour options for the links and try to get it coloured the same as the current linkage offerings from Ibis
    All of our link kits have always been hardcoat treated in order to increase durability and eliminate fade over time but will take that into consideration.

    Darren,

    Again, kudos to Push for proceeding with development of the aftermarket upper link. I agree, that it will only make a great bike better!
    You should know that IBIS deserves some kudos as well. When I made the call to Hans to get some items to help reduce development time he he didn't hesitate.

    Darren

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    Frame Flex on Mojo or Mojo SL

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I installed the new annodized upper & lower pivot links to my Mojo.Looks sweeeeet! The one thing that i never noticed untill I installed the new links is the amount of flex between the front & rear triangle? Is this the same on the SL? Basickly all we did was grab the rear wheel while holding the bike & tried twisting back & forth & noticed the amount of flex at the upper link attached to the shock?
    I'm assuming that this was engineered this way? or is there something that I'm missing?



    Ok, Here are my observations. I spent the weekend doing a side by side comparison of the standard (nickle coated) original Ibis Mojo links and the new annodized SL links, both on an Sl and Std Mojo frameset. The upper links appear to be identical in weight, cross section and and mass. The lower link, however has been modified (weight is reduced by 20-30 gms and is noticibly thinner in cross section form the original). When installed, noticible static lateral flex can be observed at the BB area and seat mast using the SL lower link.

    Perhaps others can comment on the finite /Cad testing associated with the pared down Sl link, but without question, given this static deflection test (though crude, i.e. rocking the stationary rear wheel back and forth and simple pedaling) yields observable deflection.

    While I salute Ibis for their efforts in shaving grams, it is my opinion that the the case of the lower link this is counter-productive, as it effects frame lateral stiffness and may also effect the drivetrain in the middle ring in the case of the Sl (at least at my riding weight of 174 lbs). These observations are fact not fiction as some on this forum have suggested (even though they confess to not having ridden a an SL frame?). So my solution for now is to go back to the older, proven stiffer link and invest in the proposed PUSH Industries mono-upper link. With these adjustments, the bike is going to be rock solid and is the best ride, bar none!

    Ride on IBIS!
    I have had the new links since they first came out and I can tell no difference between them and the older ones. I even have the first set of links that Ibis made for the Mojo. They have been altered a bit over several iterations. They are made out of aluminum and they are still thick enough that there is not going to be any perceptible flex. Perhaps the race bearings did not get cranked down enough? Did you torque the links down fully? Its not like they are made out of thin walled titanium.

    I will put all 3 sets of lower links in a jig and check if there is any flex between them whatsoever.

    Also the weights quoted are wrong:

    Old Lower Link=132 grams
    New Lighter Lower Link=122.9 grams
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Weight savings=9.1 grams

    But the lower link does not seem to me to be a culprit?

  52. #52
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    I have the new Mojo SL and it does have flex! It isn't the wheels, it isn't the pivots or loose linkages, it is flex between the front and rear triangles and a little flex in the rear triangle itself. Does it affect the ride quality or handling adversely? Absolutely not, matter of fact I believe that the flex is what gives the bike such great ride qualities. My last 26" MTB was a NRS and that thing was super stiff in the rear end and it turned like crazy, great bike but it would beat you to death just trail riding and you could forget down hill stuff the bike would just bounce from one hit to the next. The Mojo with it's comparatively relaxed head tube angle and geometry really lets the suspension shine and the ride is butter smooth. It climbs so good It just makes you look for the next hill up the trail just to see if the next one was as easy as the last. I still can't get over how it climbs. The suspension is bottomless and it turns just slightly slower than the NRS but the ride quality is so much better. Is it the perfect MTB? No, but damn close! My biggest ***** so far is the increased pedal strikes over my NRS and 29er. My sag numbers are right where they are supposed to be but I do find myself catching the pedals a lot more than usual. Best part yet, the Mojo SL weights 24.5 lbs with an XT build and Crossmax XLs, my NRS with the same build weighted 27.5 and only had 4" of suspension travel.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade@LSTD
    My biggest ***** so far is the increased pedal strikes over my NRS and 29er. My sag numbers are right where they are supposed to be but I do find myself catching the pedals a lot more than usual.
    ....that should have been expected when you bought the Mojo considering that the BB is lower than most 5X5 bikes. The low BB is also one of the reasons why the BB handles so well.....it's a give and take. I think ideally, the Mojo should have a 13.5 BB height. To me, that would have been a better compromise for the riding I do.

    However, I used to never ride with the propedal on but I have been tinkering with it on extended climbs since it's so easy to activate....just as long as I remember to turn it off on the DH!! I noticed that it will help keep the rear up just a tad higher than w/o and maybe help with a few of the rock strikes.....not all of course, but you may want to try that. However, I think the bike has better traction with the PP off especially on technical/off camber terrain. Arrrrrgggggh.....so pick your poison.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    ....that should have been expected when you bought the Mojo considering that the BB is lower than most 5X5 bikes. The low BB is also one of the reasons why the BB handles so well.....it's a give and take. I think ideally, the Mojo should have a 13.5 BB height. To me, that would have been a better compromise for the riding I do.

    However, I used to never ride with the propedal on but I have been tinkering with it on extended climbs since it's so easy to activate....just as long as I remember to turn it off on the DH!! I noticed that it will help keep the rear up just a tad higher than w/o and maybe help with a few of the rock strikes.....not all of course, but you may want to try that. However, I think the bike has better traction with the PP off especially on technical/off camber terrain. Arrrrrgggggh.....so pick your poison.
    Yeah I knew it was going to be a compromise but I was a little surprised that the pedal strikes were so prevalent on small roots and rocks. Most of the riding I do is in Houston so the terrain for the most part is pretty flat. I have yet to take it to Austin where the terrain is a bit more rocky and varied. I will get a good idea of how the pedal strikes affect the more technical climbs. Like I said it isn't the perfect bike but it sure is nice to complain about the little stuff that the bike doesn't do well, because it dominates must of the other categories.

  55. #55
    illuminator82
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    i ran it as a xc bike, weigh around 150-160lbs depending on season. wheelset was crossmax which are stiff for xc, not free ride or downhill stiff, but then again i dont ride like that. still say it was flexy, yes bolts tightened to torque spec-sheesh. i know flex when i feel it, not tire flex, from low pressure or weak sidewall casings, but torsional flex. some find that a good thing, and yes flex can be a good thing. i just did not like it. like i said before best suspsension design around for me period.
    and Brian Lopes is a riding god, he could win on an ironing board with two wheels attached!
    ride what you like just ride.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade@LSTD
    Yeah I knew it was going to be a compromise but I was a little surprised that the pedal strikes were so prevalent on small roots and rocks. Most of the riding I do is in Houston so the terrain for the most part is pretty flat. I have yet to take it to Austin where the terrain is a bit more rocky and varied. I will get a good idea of how the pedal strikes affect the more technical climbs. Like I said it isn't the perfect bike but it sure is nice to complain about the little stuff that the bike doesn't do well, because it dominates must of the other categories.
    Mine would blow through mid travel and bang the pedals on smaller rocks. I put a high volume sleeve on the shock and it helped some. I think it was because I was a heavier rider. It 's still a little low on technical climbs. I'm getting better at half pedaling.
    Don

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro
    Mine would blow through mid travel and bang the pedals on smaller rocks. I put a high volume sleeve on the shock and it helped some. I think it was because I was a heavier rider. It 's still a little low on technical climbs. I'm getting better at half pedaling.
    I have the DT shock, I don't think there is much you can do to those at the moment. I ran a bit more pressure than normal and it seems to help a lot. I don't think it is blowing through the stroke so much as it just needs more compression dampning. I don't typically use the pro pedal but I might if the DT had such an option.

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