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  1. #1
    Green Mojo
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    Float RLC vs. Talas

    My green bike arrived yesterday and it's being built to SLX specifications (with a few minor changes). My question: should I pony up a few more bucks for the Talas fork?

    I don't care about the money, but I wondered if others have made this change? Is the Talas easy to use? Is it worth the 1/4 pound penalty in added weight?

    The bike is smoking, can't wait to ride this weekend.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerneil
    My green bike arrived yesterday and it's being built to SLX specifications (with a few minor changes). My question: should I pony up a few more bucks for the Talas fork?

    I don't care about the money, but I wondered if others have made this change? Is the Talas easy to use? Is it worth the 1/4 pound penalty in added weight?

    The bike is smoking, can't wait to ride this weekend.

    Thanks.
    The only thing that the Talas buys you is the "on the fly" switch from 140 to 120 (I don't think you would ever want to use the 100 setting). Travel reduction is nice if you do some steep extended climbing, it just helps putting you forward in a nice climbing position.

    having said that, and to complicate your choices, a PUSH modification of the fork might be worth more: my 2006 PUSH Vanilla works much better and is much more adjustable then the original.
    Last edited by Davide; 02-13-2007 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    Neil,

    Now that you've had plenty of saddle time, how are you feeling about the Talas? I'm finalizing my parts pick tomorrow and I'm still on the fence with that one. The guys at the shop think that it's not needed and the extra seals on the Talas results in a less plush fork vesus the Float RLC 140. What's your take? Do you find yourself using the adjustment a lot? Do you just go between 120 and 140 or do you use 100?

    Thanks,

  4. #4
    Green Mojo
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    Talas selection

    I have had my Mojo for about 6 weeks and have logged a ride every day except one so far. I was torn between going with the adjustable Talas RLC or using the standard Fox Float when I spec'd the bike. I was not sure I wanted to sacrifice .2 lbs for the adjustibility feature. I ultimately went with the adjustable Talas.

    With about 40 rides in, I can say I made the right decision (at least for me). I do lots of hills in the San Diego and Orange County areas. None are as steep as you might find in Moab or Colorado but many feature steep climbs with long uphill rides. I have ridden many of them with the fork tuned to 100 and then turned around and climbed the same hill with the fork left at the 140 setting. For long and steep hills it makes a difference and it is worth the sacrifice of $100+ and .2 lbs. At this point I don't climb significant hills without adjusting the fork. I think the improved angle makes a big difference. It's easy to adjust on the fly. I simply turn the dial while riding before descending.

    IMO, the adjustibility is worth it. I am much faster and more confident going up big climbs. I will test it in Moab in a few weeks. I suspect I will really appreciate it there on the big hills.

  5. #5
    Trail Rider
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    Thanks for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerneil
    I have had my Mojo for about 6 weeks and have logged a ride every day except one so far. I was torn between going with the adjustable Talas RLC or using the standard Fox Float when I spec'd the bike. I was not sure I wanted to sacrifice .2 lbs for the adjustibility feature. I ultimately went with the adjustable Talas.

    With about 40 rides in, I can say I made the right decision (at least for me). I do lots of hills in the San Diego and Orange County areas. None are as steep as you might find in Moab or Colorado but many feature steep climbs with long uphill rides. I have ridden many of them with the fork tuned to 100 and then turned around and climbed the same hill with the fork left at the 140 setting. For long and steep hills it makes a difference and it is worth the sacrifice of $100+ and .2 lbs. At this point I don't climb significant hills without adjusting the fork. I think the improved angle makes a big difference. It's easy to adjust on the fly. I simply turn the dial while riding before descending.

    IMO, the adjustibility is worth it. I am much faster and more confident going up big climbs. I will test it in Moab in a few weeks. I suspect I will really appreciate it there on the big hills.
    Thank you for the information. I ride a lot of long steep hills and my ETA fork helps on those. The ETA has too little travel(30 mm) except for smooth trails. I would imagine I'd use the 100 mm setting on the steep climbs. I'm thinking the little bit of added weight is worth it. The price difference isn't a factor for me. The Float did ride nice on my Mojo test ride.
    [size=4]Don[/size]

  6. #6
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    Fork Off

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerneil
    I have had my Mojo for about 6 weeks and have logged a ride every day except one so far. I was torn between going with the adjustable Talas RLC or using the standard Fox Float when I spec'd the bike. I was not sure I wanted to sacrifice .2 lbs for the adjustibility feature. I ultimately went with the adjustable Talas.

    With about 40 rides in, I can say I made the right decision (at least for me). I do lots of hills in the San Diego and Orange County areas. None are as steep as you might find in Moab or Colorado but many feature steep climbs with long uphill rides. I have ridden many of them with the fork tuned to 100 and then turned around and climbed the same hill with the fork left at the 140 setting. For long and steep hills it makes a difference and it is worth the sacrifice of $100+ and .2 lbs. At this point I don't climb significant hills without adjusting the fork. I think the improved angle makes a big difference. It's easy to adjust on the fly. I simply turn the dial while riding before descending.

    IMO, the adjustibility is worth it. I am much faster and more confident going up big climbs. I will test it in Moab in a few weeks. I suspect I will really appreciate it there on the big hills.
    Does anyone else have opinions here? My LBS doesn't think the Talas is necessary, and beyond the weight gain, that the Talas has slightly worse performance at 140 than the Float. They said if you need to climb, you just want to lock out the Float. I can see how a lowered front end would help keep your weight forward and keep the front wheel on the ground on the steep ups, but intuitively it also would seem pretty extreme to lower the front end to 100mm when your back end is at 140. In other words, Neil makes a good case, but I'm hoping for other perspectives to help me in my decision...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by getbusyliving
    Does anyone else have opinions here? My LBS doesn't think the Talas is necessary, and beyond the weight gain, that the Talas has slightly worse performance at 140 than the Float. They said if you need to climb, you just want to lock out the Float. I can see how a lowered front end would help keep your weight forward and keep the front wheel on the ground on the steep ups, but intuitively it also would seem pretty extreme to lower the front end to 100mm when your back end is at 140. In other words, Neil makes a good case, but I'm hoping for other perspectives to help me in my decision...
    Well ... I don't know. I personally went for a Float 140mm, why? Easier to maintain (no special tools needed to open it), probably marginally more reliable, I did not like the 140/120/100 that I think is not a great solution (the good solution in my book is an indexed bar mounted adjustment ... but nobody makes one), and ... I ride a high rise bar, so by the time I put my weight forward (fork sags more), put my hands in the center of the bar, and the Mojo does its part by not sagging the rear ... I am ... 20-30mm lower without having to fidget with levers ... the Azonic love grips also provide enough material at the bar ends to put my hands in a thumb-over-side-of-the-bar position (elbows facing down) that lowers the position of my elbows a couple of inches and works very well with extended climbs.
    Last edited by Davide; 03-21-2007 at 07:49 AM.

  8. #8
    flow where ever you go
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    adjusted travel helps a little, but...

    I find much less need for reducing travel on the Mojo than on previous bikes. The bike is somehow better balanced and tracks so well. On most climbs the front tire does not lighten much at all. Only in the most severe cases does it lighten enough to impact steering and tracking a little, and even then it only takes a bit of forward weighting to keep it on track. I don't know how much of this is related to how my particular Mojo is set up and fits me and how much is the bike in general. Your experience may vary.

    All this is true even though I am running a 150mm fork on a small frame. My fork does have a lock down feature that allows the fork to compress but not return the travel (though it keeps 60mm in reserve that does remain active). I find the lock down is somewhat helpful in extreme situations such as very muddy steeps or just VERY steep. But if I don't lock down, these same sections can be cleared with more attention to rider skills. If you reduce travel too much, the pedals can hit ground in technical climbs.

    Based on my bike, fork, and experience with daily climbing, I would not consider travel adjustments a big enough advantage to worry about and don't think you will end up needing or using it a lot. But already Neil does find it useful, so.....YEMV.

  9. #9
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    I know this is slightly off thread but I would really advise using another fork for the Mojo other than Fox....I think they are overrated....a Pike or DUC are far better IMO. Cant speak for Manitou or Zocci but I sold my o7 Talas straight on...not impressed. Cheers!

  10. #10
    Ridin' Dirty
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    We the people ... I just sent my talas back!!!!

    I recently bought a slightly used 2007 Talas R. I got a great deal because I bought it with a pair of juicy 7 brakes and total was only $630 . Unfortunately, the fork wasn't working properly when I recieved it . The travel adjustments were not working at all. It was stuck at 140. Basically my local shop and anyone I asked said that it would cost me an additional 100-200 bucks to fix with labor. The bottom line is that the talas has way too many things that can go wrong . And beleive it or not 20 or 40 mm difference is very insignificant if you are really biking hard.

    I just ordered the float RLC and I will simply use the lock out on the climbs.

    Thanks for reading.
    Titusman

  11. #11
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    Talas, Yep, I use the height adjust all the time. Allot of riders can't really tell what angle their bikes are at or much of anything else which is not necessarily bad. Everyones coordination in time and space and the proprioception of motion is different.
    I actually wish I could get it a lil lower on some climbs and a lil longer on some downhills. But I'm not ready to sacrifice Ibis overall handling for a Bioicon Golden Willow or anything....
    Btw, I'll also have it pushed when I get a chance.
    Also, not having the right shock that you really want, no matter which it is and $$ affects you a little--- several 1000 cycles of it per ride, so make the right choice, no matter what it is.

  12. #12
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    Talas me too it is worth it. Esp after Push. Btw, best not to do it just cause everybody else does it.
    Recent poll of what people would most want to do if asteroid was going to wipe out all life on earth in 6 MONTHS----------------most replied have a baby.....duh !
    Last edited by ghawk; 11-24-2007 at 05:59 AM.

  13. #13
    Trail Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusman
    I recently bought a slightly used 2007 Talas R. I got a great deal because I bought it with a pair of juicy 7 brakes and total was only $630 . Unfortunately, the fork wasn't working properly when I recieved it . The travel adjustments were not working at all. It was stuck at 140. Basically my local shop and anyone I asked said that it would cost me an additional 100-200 bucks to fix with labor. The bottom line is that the talas has way too many things that can go wrong . And beleive it or not 20 or 40 mm difference is very insignificant if you are really biking hard.

    I just ordered the float RLC and I will simply use the lock out on the climbs.

    Thanks for reading.
    I ended up getting a Talas with my Mojo. The travel adjustment stopped working also. Fortunately, I got it repaired under warranty with no money involved. Cal Coast(LBS) even lent me a Vanilla while the fork was sent back to Fox.

    I rode the Vanilla and noticed right away how much I missed the 100 mm setting on really steep climbs and long climbs. Much more effort needed. I'm used to adjustable forks. If you ever have a problem with a Fox product not under warrant, you can send it to them yourself(RA number) and they give you a quote over the phone(estimate). I've sent my rear shocks to have them worked on.
    Good luck with your new fork!
    [size=4]Don[/size]

  14. #14
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    Save your money. I am on my second IBIS MOJO. The 07 that I have has the Talas fork, works fine, gets my front end down on twisty steep singel tracks here in Nor Cal. Since I just built up a brand new 08 I went with the non talas fork, and have no problem riding the same trails and the bike is 1/2 pound lighter to boot.

  15. #15
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    I got the TALAS, and am not sure if I would again. Its heavier, more expensive and with more to look after/go wrong.

    I do use the adjust, sometimes on really steep climbs, but am not convinced I would really miss it. IF you usually ride the same terrain, I would just set up the RLC and save the weight/pennies.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadgit
    I got the TALAS, and am not sure if I would again. Its heavier, more expensive and with more to look after/go wrong.

    I do use the adjust, sometimes on really steep climbs, but am not convinced I would really miss it. IF you usually ride the same terrain, I would just set up the RLC and save the weight/pennies.
    I just got an 08 Yeti 575 with the Float and I like it a lot. It's lighter and simpler than the Talas. But, if you really like the travel adjust you only have one choice. Personally, I prefer to set the bike up biased to climbing a bit so I don't feel the need to drop the fork.
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  17. #17
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    I don't know if this is a good reason or not, but I went for the adjustability of the TALAS in case I ever wanted to put it on something else where I didn't want 140 mm of travel, like a hardtail. On the Mojo I did find that 100 mm helped in climbs though. The trick is remembering to go back to 140 on the descent :-) It would be pretty cool to have lockout and travel adjustments on the bars. Changing the settings reminds me of shifting with downtube shifters.

  18. #18
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    weight clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Earth
    Save your money. I am on my second IBIS MOJO. The 07 that I have has the Talas fork, works fine, gets my front end down on twisty steep singel tracks here in Nor Cal. Since I just built up a brand new 08 I went with the non talas fork, and have no problem riding the same trails and the bike is 1/2 pound lighter to boot.
    2008 Float RLC:3.98 lb.1760 g
    2008 Talas RLC 4.04 lb. 1830 g
    [size=4]Don[/size]

  19. #19
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    I have the 08 Float and I can't imagine needing the Talas. The Mojo with Float climbs better than my 2003 Ellsworth Truth with a F100, and I thought that bike was amazing! Save yourself the $$$, the weight and the hassle. Also, my buddy has the Talas and agrees. He only uses the 140 setting.

  20. #20
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    For any other bike, maybe the adjustable travel is a really good option. Technically speaking, lowering the front, steepening the angles should help. It should help you clean the climbs that you are having troubles with. However, what looks good on paper doesn't necessarily mean it makes that big of an impact on the trail.

    I don't even run an air fork on the front....I have the vanilla R. No lock out, no compression settings just pure, simple, and easy. No fuss...no headaches....and coil goodness.

    Yes, my Ibis is probably heavier than anyone else's here....and I'm being serious. I have 823 wheels and I'm pretty sure no one else is running the Ibis with as heavy of a component spec as me.

    BUT, yesterday, I cleaned a section that I have NEVER EVER been able to before on my HH100. NEVER before....and I have ridden this trail a hundred times or so. This was the 3rd time I've rode this trail on the Mojo so you're probably wondering, "Why if the Mojo climbs so well didn't he clean it the other 2 times?" Good question. I was so sure that it was ME and not the bike that prevented me from cleaning it the other hundred or so times that I just never bothered to try it on the Mojo. But yesterday, I just got it in my head to do it...MAN UP. I not only did it....I cleaned it easily. Mid climb I thought "Wow.....I'm not even maxed out yet....this is easy". Keep in mind that the component spec from my old bike to the Mojo was the same pretty much...I only changed the frame and the fork naturally but yet, this bike climbs SO MUCH BETTER which on paper, it shouldn't. The bike is slacker.....taller.....more travel....it shouldn't climb better.....but it does.

    So the point is....that just because adjustable travel is an option...it doesn't necessarily mean you would use it or that it's better. My buddy rides his Mojo with the ZOke AM 1. He did a jump the other day and forgot to release the lock out. Another pain in the a$$ IMO.

    And just if you're wondering whether the propedal is needed on the Mojo....that'd be a resounding "NO" as well......

  21. #21
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    talas vs float

    I have the talas on my o6 stumpy 120. The tire stays down on steep climbs on the 100 setting way better than the 120. I usually leave the bike in the 120 setting it is the best all around setting. The 140 setting is stupid, it turns the front end into a pogo stick and I dont notice a more plush ride over the 120 setting.

    Kind of geaky always adusting your setting on the trail anyway (and dangerous sometimes when switching on the fly) would probably rather not deal. If I had to do it again I would go with a 120 or 130 float rlc and call it good.

    If my front tire pops up on some climbs then so what. If you are racing and it matters then you should be on a stiff 100mm bike anyway.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lptech
    I have the talas on my o6 stumpy 120. The tire stays down on steep climbs on the 100 setting way better than the 120. I usually leave the bike in the 120 setting it is the best all around setting. The 140 setting is stupid, it turns the front end into a pogo stick and I dont notice a more plush ride over the 120 setting.

    Kind of geaky always adusting your setting on the trail anyway (and dangerous sometimes when switching on the fly) would probably rather not deal. If I had to do it again I would go with a 120 or 130 float rlc and call it good.

    If my front tire pops up on some climbs then so what. If you are racing and it matters then you should be on a stiff 100mm bike anyway.
    I have the Talas and I think it's a good but not critical upgrade. I use the 120 (and very occasionally 100) on steep extended ups, and it definitely makes climbing more efficient by moving your weight forward.

    I have to respectfully disagree that 140 is "stupid." The bike handles and corners much better on steep and/or technical downhills and switchbacks at 140 IMO. I have accidentally left the fork at 120 on technical downhills, and for me performance is noticeably inferior, with weight too far forward, and bigger hits more punishing. On the other hand, I did a fairly long XC race almost entirely at 120 (intentionally), and I probably clocked a slightly faster time because of the better climbing---so 120 is fine for XC-type riding and racing...though less comfortable. If you've got too much pogo at 140, you can adjust your compression dampening and rebound dials to correct that.

    Oh, and my experience is all on the Ibis Mojo...the Stumpy may well give different results.

  23. #23
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    From reading all of the above posts.. I think the moral of the story is.... To each his own.
    You need to look at what type of trails you ride most and where your strengths and weaknesses are.. (do a SWOT analysis ;-))
    Personally I find that my strengths are in technical rock gardens and going down. I tend to fall behind a little on steep smooth climbs. This is where I find the TALAS really helps and pretty much the only time I use it.. I have occasionally used the travel reduction feature through tight twisty single track and it works a treat...
    But I can also see how there would be areas with trails where you would never need to touch the travel adjust knob.

  24. #24
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    TALAS if only as it allows me to keep my butt in the one place rather than move forward on steeper climbs. I have also forgotton to return to 140 after a 100mm and locked out climb, but the blow-off worked well and I didn't really notice for a few minutes. I have since found there is no benefit in locking the fork out and I also don't touch the pro pedal setting. I think the difference in climbing with a lower fork and steeper head angle, esp on fire roads is a pretty big one.

  25. #25
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    I think your are right the stumpy is higher in the front by design already. The 140 pogo is not really a rebound setting issue, it is more a bike geometry/balanace issue. Perhaps pogo is the wrong word. The bike is obviously to high in the front on the 140 setting so handling things like switchbacks and is harder. My bike manual states in captital letters...DO NOT USE A FORK WITH MORE THAN 120MM TRAVEL. This is because it throws off bike setup and stresses parts in a way not intended. If i though the 140 soaked up more bumps I would not care about the manual, but the 120 seems just as good and I am ready to go up the other side without messing with the knob.

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