Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    358

    Feedback from 650B HD riders?

    There is quite a bit of technical discussion on the Ibis forum regarding the challenges of converting to 650B - shock shimming, which forks to run etc. I would love to hear some riding feedback from those that have converted their 160mm HDs to 650B and if the differences were positive/noticeable etc.

    I am about to embark on my 2nd HD build (first one is stolen) and trying to get a better sense if the ride improvements of 650B offset the build challenges

  2. #2
    www.derbyrims.com
    Reputation: derby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,788
    Easier rolling and more traction riding rough trail, more pedal clearance. And most important.... the hipster factor

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OldManBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    787

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    358
    Derby's write up is helpful especially given we ride the same loop. But it seems he went from regular mojo straight to 650B HD, rather than HD -> 650B HD

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,244
    i have HD 650b in 160 mode. basically went 650b route based on Derbys posts here on mtbr. currently running neo-moto 2.3 rear and wee rubber trail taker 2.4 front combo. cant be happier. besides other the great thing about the conversion for me, riding around front range colorado, is higher bb.
    HuRa
    architecture and interior design
    website facebook

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    202
    650b mojoHD.. I like it.. Though i will say-- its not a earth changing experience... The 650b's are 27" -- so not that big of a difference between 650 and the 26" wheels.. But the difference between 650b and 29ers -- is huge.. If your after full sized tires and all their benifits-- then maybe a 29er(riply) would be better for you.. Are you a big hucker? Or a tires on the ground fast rider.. IM a tires on the ground fast rider that is not into really big hucks.. A little air here and there is ok but i love high speed.. So do i really need 6" of travel for that or would i get a benifit of the larger tires gliding over rough areas helping me keep my speed up?(yes is the answer)..

    For me it goes like this.. This is no situation that 650b wont be better then 26" tires(they roll better-- faster and yet are still small enough to feel lively)-- but there is situations where a 29er could be better then 650 and worse then 650b depending on what and how you ride.. Big hucks-- jumps-- more play ride-- 650b... Higher speed-- over funky terrain with wheels on the ground-- 29er might be better for you..

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mazspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    983
    Quote Originally Posted by SB Trails View Post

    For me it goes like this.. This is no situation that 650b wont be better then 26" tires
    Could not disagree with you more. (At least for me) I rode my friends converted HD in 140 mode and didn't like it. I don't like the 27.5 on the HD because it's not as flickable, or playful which is key for me on descending and corning. I felt out of balance a little more, not a lot, but enough to notice that in corners it won't handle as good. The downside. Handling, being able to toss it around a little less, climbing, and jumping. I have a tough enough time climbing, and the bigger tire on this bike made it even harder. Being able to toss those wheels on a HD is tougher for me. The upside is ground clearance, and the possibility to roll over tree stumps and in SC, that is key, but when it comes to racing and corning, the 26 is much better at it than a 27.5 is on the HD. The HD was designed with 26 wheels and it works best with 26 inch wheels. Here is the thing, I ride maybe a bit differently than some with my BMX background and I have always liked the smaller wheel, so perhaps this is my thing, but I can tell when something works or doesn't work, and the 27.5 on the HD doesn't work for me. My 2 and a half cents.

  8. #8
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,166
    Interesting question. I've been trying 650B on my Mojo classic for 18 months, and on my Mojo HD for the past four. I have two builds for the HD, one that is more trail oriented (140mm) and one that is more AM/Gnar/Enduro or pick whatever term is hot today (160mm). In short, I think the 650B is an asset in 140 mode, but a detriment in 160, for several reasons.

    One of the things I love about dw-link and general and Mojos in particular is the punchy acceleration out of the saddle. On paper this ought to be worse with the bigger wheels, but actually I find the 650B carries a lot more speed through corners w/the better traction, and really rewards jamming on the pedals out of the exit. So this is great for fast, technical singletrack. Particularly when things get rough -- rocky, rooty, off-camber, poor traction -- I'm loving the way this plays to the HD140's strong suit, which is super-stiff and confident, but at the same time snappy pedaling characteristics. It really lets you fly through the corners: super fun! This is the sort of riding the HD140 excels at, and the 650B wheels just make it more so.

    Now, I switch to 160 mode when the terrain gets steeper and the hits bigger. As fits the job, that also means wider bars, meatier tires, burlier fork. Unfortunately, the rear triangle just doesn't allow for the bigger 27.5 tires (unless it's going to be bone dry), so I'm not able to run my favorite tires for this terrain: bummer. (I have the same problem with my fork, although that's really more a part spec issue.) For this most challenging terrain, I think being able to select the best rubber for the ride and location far outweighs the minor benefits of the larger wheel. And it's a minor quibble, but basically having to shim the shock down to an effective 144mm (.25 shim = 10% of 2.5", 160mm-10% = 144 .... someone can check my math) of travel is again a bummer. Harder to tell than with the tires, but I do wonder whether losing that travel is really worth it. In 160 mode, the HD just eats chunky terrain. Mounting small tires and reducing its travel just hampers that ability: again -- in my opinion -- not worth the subtle benefit of bigger wheels.

    There are a couple of other points I could make about this 140/160 split -- such as climbing, bottom bracket height -- but I think I've droned on long enough.

    But the big picture is that I'm really glad to have both 650B and 26" wheels for 140 & 160mm modes, since I think they play to the strong suits of each of the HD's personalities. The differences are subtle, but it's great to have one other tool for dialing in the ride.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  9. #9
    Too Much Fun
    Reputation: benja55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,062
    I'd never heard of Wee Rubber until this week. Seems like great rubber. Is Neo-Moto the best for rear clearance?
    - -benja- -

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    202
    The funny part is I totally agree with mazdaspeed... For me--Im not a jumper-- i wish i was but i end up wadded up on the side of the trail when i go for big air lol.. So for me-- the statement of "there is nothing i cant to better on 650b vs 26" is true.. But if i was one of those badass big air guys or one of those jump/jump/jump/tabletop/jump down the trial guys-- id be all over 26 wheels for sure.. Again-- its down to the answer you give when you ask yourself-"what is my riding style" is..

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    21

    Feedback from 650B HD riders?

    Owned a 160 HD for almost 3 years, sold it an replaced it with 140 HD 650b and been riding it for a couple of weeks now. Amazing! Being the HD an excellent bike as it is, the conversion injects extra oomph to the already great setup. Combined with Enves AMs, XX1 and a 34 Talas 27.5 160/120 on Hans Dampfs the bike rides beautifully. I mostly do enduro style hard riding with technical climbs and fast rocky singletrack descents. My old HD 160 had a 36 Talas 160/120 and iodine wheels on 20mm hubs that provided great front end stiffness and descent confidence that I thought were going to be trade-offs with the 650b. Couldn't been more wrong, the big wheels make up for the slimmer front end which is greatly appreciated while climbing. Pull the trigger on a 140 HD 650b that is Ibis approved, you wont regret it!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mazspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    983
    Quote Originally Posted by emextreme78 View Post
    Owned a 160 HD for almost 3 years, sold it an replaced it with 140 HD 650b and been riding it for a couple of weeks now. Amazing! Being the HD an excellent bike as it is, the conversion injects extra oomph to the already great setup. Combined with Enves AMs, XX1 and a 34 Talas 27.5 160/120 on Hans Dampfs the bike rides beautifully. I mostly do enduro style hard riding with technical climbs and fast rocky singletrack descents. My old HD 160 had a 36 Talas 160/120 and iodine wheels on 20mm hubs that provided great front end stiffness and descent confidence that I thought were going to be trade-offs with the 650b. Couldn't been more wrong, the big wheels make up for the slimmer front end which is greatly appreciated while climbing. Pull the trigger on a 140 HD 650b that is Ibis approved, you wont regret it!
    You like the climbing with the 650B better? Now Hans will disagree with me but I climbed better on my 140 when it was a 140, but now that it's a 160 it's harder to climb. Again my buddy is on a 140 650B but climbing on that seemed even harder than on a 160.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    21

    Feedback from 650B HD riders?

    Absolutely, the 650b gives you greater clearance and better roll momentum that translates to better climbing. The new xx1 with a 30t ring produces almost equivalent gear ratios to my old 2x9 xtr (factoring 175 crank size increase and the larger wheel), so at least on paper displacement is roughly the same.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,244
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    I'd never heard of Wee Rubber until this week. Seems like great rubber. Is Neo-Moto the best for rear clearance?
    trail taker is great, try it, you will be amazed, supposedly it fits on the rear too but neo-moto 2.3 is all i need in rear, it has got decent volume and the clearance is good. i currently switched to 1x10 ,32 front 11-41 rear. just one more thing to be completely happy, and that is different shock.
    HuRa
    architecture and interior design
    website facebook

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    723
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i currently switched to 1x10 ,32 front 11-41 rear.
    11-41 rear?! is that a typo, a custom-made cassette or have I missed the release of a wide-range 10spd cassette?
    ride, eat, sleep, repeat

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,244
    41 cog from mtb tools + 36-11 cassette
    HuRa
    architecture and interior design
    website facebook

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    723
    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    41 cog from mtb tools + 36-11 cassette
    thank you! that's great, any compatibility issues for you?
    ride, eat, sleep, repeat

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mazspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    983
    Quote Originally Posted by emextreme78 View Post
    Absolutely, the 650b gives you greater clearance and better roll momentum that translates to better climbing. The new xx1 with a 30t ring produces almost equivalent gear ratios to my old 2x9 xtr (factoring 175 crank size increase and the larger wheel), so at least on paper displacement is roughly the same.
    We are both on 3x10 shamino xtr. I can't think of trying to climb the stuff here locally with xx1. I am slow going up, fast going down. I am not sure xx1 is for me, I really need as many gears as possible sometimes, which may be the reason why I can feel the difference between 27.5 and 26 inch wheels on pretty much the same bikes. I really do have a much harder time climbing and corning at speed on the same frame (HD) with 27.5. To me it's a very large difference.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brankulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,244
    Quote Originally Posted by tdotrider View Post
    thank you! that's great, any compatibility issues for you?
    no, not really, however i started with 41 cog plus 32-11 cassette i had already and the step between 32 and 41 was too big, i was missing a gear in between so i got 36-11 cassette. it also shifts cleaner now to 41 cog. i also had a rub when in 32 gear between cage and 41 cog but it got all solved by installing 36-11 cassette and longer chain. works great for around $100. you will also need to decide which gear from casette to get rid of, most people remove 15 and 17 and install 16. i used 16 cog from my 32-11 cassette.
    HuRa
    architecture and interior design
    website facebook

  20. #20
    Stupid is, as stupid does
    Reputation: spunkmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    528
    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    We are both on 3x10 shamino xtr. I can't think of trying to climb the stuff here locally with xx1. I am slow going up, fast going down. I am not sure xx1 is for me, I really need as many gears as possible sometimes, which may be the reason why I can feel the difference between 27.5 and 26 inch wheels on pretty much the same bikes. I really do have a much harder time climbing and corning at speed on the same frame (HD) with 27.5. To me it's a very large difference.
    Finally someone who doesn't like the conversion. I have a few questions. I have some extreme hi-class problems. My main ride is a Lenz Sport Mammoth 29er. My back-up ride is a 2010 Yeti 575. To keep me honest I ride they Yeti every 3rd ride. Back to back rides my 29er is more fun. My Yeti suspension is more fun than the Lenz, but the 29er wheels are simply better than 26. I have been riding since 1988, 6'2 225lbs w/gear. I know what works for me and what doesn't. Or at least I think I do.

    Now my problem. I have lusted after the Mojo since I first saw it years ago. So sexy. Also the dw-link (Being a Clyde. I always have to run higher pressures, send shock to push, compromise somewhere). The Price has always been out of my reach. However, I just scored a used 2011 HD 12x135 maxle for a price I couldn't say no to. I live in southern CA. My shortest ride is 8 miles. Longest is 30. I ride up at Mammoth, Big Bear, MT Wilson Shuttle as well (this is the only place my 29er has been sketchy). Where and how i ride around home really dictates that i use a triple. For two weeks I haven't been able to stop thinking about what to do. Build 26 or 650b.

    So, it sounds as if we are a bit similar in style and opinion. I get little air when its safe, but I ride fast and flowy. I can't stop thinking about the wheel choices. I know the answer. Build it as a 26" love it. Than try 650b. I guess I want to know more of "Why". You don't Ike it. Where do you ride that it isn't more fun? Why? You are about the only nay sayer I have come across. I have ridden in Northern CA, ID, MT, UT, AZ, VT, NH. I've been all over. Anyway I am rambling and curious. Thanks for your time.
    Pivot Mach 6
    Yeti SB95C
    1993 Brodie Expresso-For Sale
    RIP 1997 Santa Cruz Heckler.In 2010 the frame cracked

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,990
    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Could not disagree with you more. (At least for me) I rode my friends converted HD in 140 mode and didn't like it. I don't like the 27.5 on the HD because it's not as flickable, or playful which is key for me on descending and corning. I felt out of balance a little more, not a lot, but enough to notice that in corners it won't handle as good. The downside. Handling, being able to toss it around a little less, climbing, and jumping. I have a tough enough time climbing, and the bigger tire on this bike made it even harder. Being able to toss those wheels on a HD is tougher for me. The upside is ground clearance, and the possibility to roll over tree stumps and in SC, that is key, but when it comes to racing and corning, the 26 is much better at it than a 27.5 is on the HD. The HD was designed with 26 wheels and it works best with 26 inch wheels. Here is the thing, I ride maybe a bit differently than some with my BMX background and I have always liked the smaller wheel, so perhaps this is my thing, but I can tell when something works or doesn't work, and the 27.5 on the HD doesn't work for me. My 2 and a half cents.
    You're using some pretty vague descriptions to come up with quite a direct opinionated view point. When you've been riding for a longer time, and have ridden a lot of bikes, a lot of trails, and have raced a bunch of races you start to get a more dynamic and broader viewpoint on what works, how, and why. If you can pump and whip a corner on a 26" and have developed the fundamentals on cornering properly, then you can apply those fundamentals to any bike no matter what the wheel size. If you're just out there "bombing, jumping, ripping gnar and going fast downhill" without any real experience, a small change in wheel size might throw you way off. A true racer knows that different bikes with different setups give you edges in certain situations and its all about understand the pros and cons on each setup and picking what suits you best. While 26" bikes do change direction quicker, they also become more unstable and slower through the rough and fast loose corners. The bigger the wheel the more the gyroscopic effect, therefore the bigger the wheel the more input you have to do to get it to change directions ie: pumping. If you don't know how to pump and corner correctly, the bigger wheel size might make it that much harder as the rider was relying on the bike to get them through situations instead of their skill-set. A true experienced rider will just work a little hard to get the bigger wheeled bike to corner harder, and enjoy the benefits of the bigger wheels on the sweeping corners, in the rough, and fast sections.

    This is likely why, you are having a harder time on the bigger wheels and appear to be so against them. While I'm not a big fan of the bigger wheels for similar reasons ( I don't totally disagree with you), I'm not so "against" the bigger wheels to the point of completely dismissing them. They offer some advantages and disadvantages. Lets try and be more neutral when giving recommendations, and look at the big picture instead of that "one ride on a buddies bike" that you went on. I know the OP asked for feedback and you're just telling them your experiences, but it comes off pretty one sided. You've become a pretty vocal dude on this board and I think you have interesting insight, just realize that your experiences are limited and there are reasons why some people might enjoy things that you might not be able to comprehend at this point in your riding career

    Not trying to rub you the wrong way, just trying to show you some different perspective.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    358
    I found mazda's post pretty helpful since I'm a $hitty climber and it does seem like the 650B could be a small disadvantage in terms of initiating momentum on steeper/more technical climbs

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,990
    Dude, if you're a $hitty climber, you have bigger problems to worry about than 1.75" bigger wheel on "steeper/more technical climbs"
    Again, I'm not for or against the 27.5 wheels. I'm just saying lets be realistic and use some logic here folks.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    358
    thanks guy

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    723
    I actually find that climbing (especially technical climbs) are easier with the bigger wheels. To me the rollover advantage outweighs the minimal loss in acceleration when climbs involve rocks/roots - perhaps coming off a long-travel 29er I'm used to carrying a bit more speed into punchy climbs and therefore benefiting from the rollover and extra momentum of the bigger wheels.

    The way I see it, you can choose a parts spec that will allow you to go either 26 or 650b just by swapping wheelsets...so build yourself up that dream 26er and when time/money allows pick up a 650b wheelset to play around with...can't go wrong either way.
    ride, eat, sleep, repeat

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. How about a 650b ARC for shorter riders?
    By KevinGT in forum Yeti
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-08-2013, 07:10 AM
  2. any KHS 606 650b riders?
    By shugarbear in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-23-2012, 11:21 PM
  3. SD riders: Feedback wanted - Gatos Ravine Trail
    By Hecklermark in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-04-2012, 05:37 PM
  4. Feedback from Scott Genius 50 riders
    By kdiff in forum Scott Sports
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-08-2011, 02:55 AM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-25-2011, 09:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •