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  1. #1
    LJJ
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    DT Swiss - Help !

    Guys,

    My girlfriend is over in the US this week at San Diego, CA. I am interested in getting a DT Swiss XR Carbon or EX200 to use on my Mojo'Dale, instead of the RP23, which I find harsh, Propedal is pointless, and I have to run 40% sag to get any comfort on the bike (crazy). I would get the dealer to ship to her hotel by Fedex.

    Point is - where can I buy one ?? I looked at all M.B.A. adverisers' web-sites. No joy.
    Then I looked at the US DT Swiss site, and there are dozens of dealers in CA.

    Can anyone help ??

    Cheers
    LJJ

  2. #2
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    which dampening setting is your rp23 ? there is a sticker on the shock with 3 marks.
    Mitch

  3. #3
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Maybe ask info@ibis.com?

    Sorry, I don't know.

  4. #4
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    I have sold (2) DT shocks in the last 7 days, both new takeoffs from my SL bikes, so I am sorry to say you missed out on the bro deal (both sold for $ 395.00 US). I sold them as I do not think the DT is a proven technology (elastomer rebound, Gimbaled ends-no thanks). Makes me think of Progressive 5th element, here today, gone tomorrow, inferior product, high maintenance in the end.

    Fox RP23, on the other hand, the IBIS Mojo spring curve was designed around the Fox, according to DW. The propedal perhaps needs to be de-tuned by PUSH to accommodate some rider weights, but still comparable in cost and proven performance and reliability over the unknown DT Swiss. Just my 2 cents worth.

  5. #5
    Geritol Power
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    Ljj

    Try these nice folks here:

    Cal Coast Bicycles 3020 Adams Ave. 92116
    www.calcoastbicycles.com 619-281-RIDE (7433)

    Good luck

  6. #6
    LJJ
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    Thanks

    Thanks for the replies.

    My Compression tune is maximum - I know I could get this changed to a lighter tune and this would help. I will get this done, if I can't get a DT Swiss.

    But it's $ for £ (sterling) over in the US and I thought a great opportunity to get the DT Swiss. $395 is an amazing deal - over here (UK) they cost £398 !!!!!! That's well over $700.................

    DT Swiss's reliability is well known in Europe, and we have 'Pace' over here who can tune the shocks if req'd.

    Thanks again
    LJJ

  7. #7
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    Push Rp23

    Is anyone else annoyed that the "solution" to getting a good ride is just after you drop your hard earned money and wait for your bike to be built and purchasing a brand new, cutting edge technology shock, you need to remove the shock, ship your shock to a tuning company, and pay even more to have the shock finally rebuilt and setup right because the folks at Fox just can't figure it out for some reason? Tehn you get to reinstall it and a couple weeks later ride your darn bike.

    Have we just lowered our expectations collectively here, or am I being too demanding to expect the shock to work right from Fox or whomever you buy it from?

    If PUSH is so great, why doesn't Fox "push" their shocks before they ship? Why do I need to "fix" a brand new shock before I even ride it? This is not unique to DW Link bikes, so it is not our new technology at work here exclusively.

    I hate to hear negative reviews of the DT, although nothing I have heard seems all that conclusive yet. What does "gimbaled" mean exactly and what does that have to do with the performance of the shock? Not questioning your judgment, just dont know what it means. Please someone tell me the DT is head and shoulders better. Lie to me!

  8. #8
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowellbarrett
    If PUSH is so great, why doesn't Fox "push" their shocks before they ship? Why do I need to "fix" a brand new shock before I even ride it? This is not unique to DW Link bikes, so it is not our new technology at work here exclusively.
    Fox is not in the market of design shocks to individual needs (bikes or people). Push is in the market of taking a shock and tuning it to exactly what your heart (or waistline) desires.

    I am totally ok with the two different approaches and appreciate the fact that a shock like the RP23 is priced ok and that Wife (and many others) can ride it very happily straight out of the Box. I didn't need to Push my Vanilla RC on either my Mojo or my Intense M1 - but I was happy to. I also don't need to buy a venti latte from Starbucks instead of drip coffee from the gas station but I am happy to. It was probably a bit of good marketing that influenced both decisions.

  9. #9
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    Gimbaled is actually pretty straightforward: the attachment point at both ends of the DT shock is a sphere enclosed in a sperical cup with openings. By doing that the shock piston gets to operate with near zero sideloads because the shock attachment points are allowed to align themselves "perfectly" no matter what kind of twisting occurs anywhere else in the frame and suspension.

    I have no clue why buggymancan might consider that a bad thing.

  10. #10
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    DT Swiss is technically better made

    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    ... I sold them as I do not think the DT is a proven technology (elastomer rebound, Gimbaled ends-no thanks).
    ... but still comparable in cost and proven performance and reliability over the unknown DT Swiss. Just my 2 cents worth.
    I rode DT Swiss HVR shock for one season on Stumpy and PUSHed Fox Septune a season before. From the technical point of view DT is much further - spherical bearings last much longer and need much less maintenance compared to (Fox) bushings (btw, I used spherical bearings on Spec Epic's Fox Brain for 3 years w/o necessity to replace them and they required very low maintenance too). Fox bushings need to be replaced by polymer bushings (e.g. from BETD, PUSH, ...) very soon. Elastomer is not used for a rebound, but as a negative spring, that means in other words, that no stuckdown could occure, as the Fox shocks love to do (including my Septune). On the other hand, I felt PUShed Fox a bit more plush than DT (on Stumpy).

  11. #11
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    Appreciate the feedback

    But I am still not sold that this is the right way. It is just a matter of opinion, and one of admitted ignorance, but I hate the idea that they cannot get it right out of the box. I do not agree that we are talking about Fox not being into "customizing shocks." If they built it right to begin with, we would not need to send it out for modification. There seems to be a standard set of modifications that *everyone* does to make the shock more responsive to small chatter bumps, get *all* of it's travel (the nerve to expect so much!), and to remove the propedal that frankly, I didn't ask for (and it seems that many others didn't either by the amount of business that PUSH is getting).

    Anyway, it appears to work for some. I just want to buy a shock that is at or near it's top performance out of the box, and I will pay more for it. It is not ok for me to lose my bike for another couple weeks to "fix" my brand new, cutting edge shock.

    pb

  12. #12
    Geritol Power
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    Push sells brand new shocks

    $500 for RP pre-Pushed right out of the box.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by buggymancan
    I have sold (2) DT shocks in the last 7 days, both new takeoffs from my SL bikes, so I am sorry to say you missed out on the bro deal (both sold for $ 395.00 US). I sold them as I do not think the DT is a proven technology (elastomer rebound, Gimbaled ends-no thanks). Makes me think of Progressive 5th element, here today, gone tomorrow, inferior product, high maintenance in the end.

    Fox RP23, on the other hand, the IBIS Mojo spring curve was designed around the Fox, according to DW. The propedal perhaps needs to be de-tuned by PUSH to accommodate some rider weights, but still comparable in cost and proven performance and reliability over the unknown DT Swiss. Just my 2 cents worth.

    I ignored the comment about the elastomer negative springs in my earlier response that addressed the concern over gimbaled links. Elastomer negative springs are fairly common in automobile suspensions. Can you say 2+ tons, 50,000+ miles ... and no the negative springs are not responsible for rebound in the way buggymancan makes it sound.

    I am in no way associated with DT and/or Ibis as a company ... nor am I involved in any part of the bicycle or suspension industries as a business ... just fairly immune to chatter.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJJ
    Guys,

    My girlfriend is over in the US this week at San Diego, CA. I am interested in getting a DT Swiss XR Carbon or EX200 to use on my Mojo'Dale, instead of the RP23, which I find harsh, Propedal is pointless, and I have to run 40% sag to get any comfort on the bike (crazy). I would get the dealer to ship to her hotel by Fedex.

    Point is - where can I buy one ?? I looked at all M.B.A. adverisers' web-sites. No joy.
    Then I looked at the US DT Swiss site, and there are dozens of dealers in CA.

    Can anyone help ??

    Cheers
    LJJ
    Here you go. Usually you have to go thru a dealer, but if they can't seem to help then the guys in Grand Junction will probably let you order direct from them. I heard they have started getting some in. (also the remotes.)
    Sales and Marketing

    DT Swiss Inc.

    2493 Industrial Blvd

    Grand Junction, CO 81505

    Office 970-242-9232
    Fax 970-244-8918

    www.dtswiss-us.com

    Honestly, if it were me, I would get the rp23 pushed from Darren and the guys in Loveland. They will tune it the way you want, it will ride better and be cheaper, probably more durable. You only give up weight and the remote option.
    Talk to Darren here you go
    http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=235130



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowellbarrett
    But I am still not sold that this is the right way. It is just a matter of opinion, and one of admitted ignorance, but I hate the idea that they cannot get it right out of the box. I do not agree that we are talking about Fox not being into "customizing shocks." If they built it right to begin with, we would not need to send it out for modification. There seems to be a standard set of modifications that *everyone* does to make the shock more responsive to small chatter bumps, get *all* of it's travel (the nerve to expect so much!), and to remove the propedal that frankly, I didn't ask for (and it seems that many others didn't either by the amount of business that PUSH is getting).

    Anyway, it appears to work for some. I just want to buy a shock that is at or near it's top performance out of the box, and I will pay more for it. It is not ok for me to lose my bike for another couple weeks to "fix" my brand new, cutting edge shock.

    pb
    Wow. It seems that perhaps you might want to create your own shock company and make a shock that meets those criteria. I happen to think that the RP23 is quite fine "out of the box" and I like the propedal (a minority). Fox's shocks are not cutting edge, it takes several years for them to my makes changes so that todays cutting edge becomes next years current edge. They make a generic shock that is made for any bike, any rider and any condition. So that shock must work for any bike brand out there, any suspension system (Horst, DW Link, etc), any rider size (150lbs, 250lbs, etc), any rider type (light touch, the basher, the jumper, etc) and any condition (rock gardens, packed trail, gravel, etc). The shock must be durable, reproducible and above all functional.

    You might want to send an email to Fox and ask them if they might want to add an enhancement to their shock building in which you can special order a shock that meets rider weight, rider type, etc. Doubt they would do it since they are so high volume and are really catering as a OEM supplier to the bike companies.

    Peace.

  16. #16
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    Good job!

    I've had an SSD 210L for about 3 years. Banged it about on my Nicolai Helius, done plenty (1000s) of rocky miles.

    Never touched it for servicing; only topped up the air a couple of times. Still feels the same as when I ran it in (takes a couple of hundred miles).

    They've been about for years in Europe (I live in Ireland) in various forms and only differ when it seems DT shave even more weight off them each year.

    If you have a Horst-link bike or a DW they are probably the best option as they are so simple and user serviceable. I hear the elastomer negative springs needs replacing yearly, I can feel no difference, so I'm leaving it until I can.

    That said the new SSD Carbons as fitted on the Mojo SL look the business.

    On the original question they are easy to get hold of over here, but that doesn't help most of you guys as the Dollar is so weak against the Euro, or Pound. But if you're flush Chain Reaction Cycles have them...

  17. #17
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    Push Rp23

    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    Perhaps the part I was not accounting enough for the fact that they re-build the shock specifically for the bike, rider, and conditions? But I tend to ride on just about anything on any given day, short of serious hucking, and kept thinking of these modifications as necessary to make it a more flexible, all-around performing shock which is the part I was frustrated with. If the mods are more for specific terrain, I guess it makes a little more sense.

    My ultimate wish list would be to have the ability to compensate for weight with spring pressure, trail conditions with compression and rebound, and have the shock simply work for the suspension design it is being used in. Supposedly the Mojo was designed for this shock, so this all still seems a bit strange.

    But it seems to work really well for a lot of people and there are certainly a lot of believers out there, so thanks a lot for the insight. I may just look in to the out-of-the-box PUSH option that Duzitall mentioned.

    Thanks

  18. #18
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowellbarrett
    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    Perhaps the part I was not accounting enough for the fact that they re-build the shock specifically for the bike, rider, and conditions? But I tend to ride on just about anything on any given day, short of serious hucking, and kept thinking of these modifications as necessary to make it a more flexible, all-around performing shock which is the part I was frustrated with. If the mods are more for specific terrain, I guess it makes a little more sense.

    My ultimate wish list would be to have the ability to compensate for weight with spring pressure, trail conditions with compression and rebound, and have the shock simply work for the suspension design it is being used in. Supposedly the Mojo was designed for this shock, so this all still seems a bit strange.

    But it seems to work really well for a lot of people and there are certainly a lot of believers out there, so thanks a lot for the insight. I may just look in to the out-of-the-box PUSH option that Duzitall mentioned.

    Thanks
    DW revealed in another tread recently that the Mojo was designed for an earlier Float shock before the RP series. Which means a shock at least 4 years ago. (The Mojo was in development for over 2 years before product bikes shipped 2 year ago).

    Prior to the RP series Float shocks had no Propedal. The added compression damping in every RP even switched “off” (softest), is more compression damping than the Float shocks 4 years ago and prior before Propedal. Fox does not produce a Float shock without Propedal now without special run OEM contract.

    The RP23 on the Mojo works great for most riders compared to the any rear shock on any other bike. And many rider like using Propedal for standing climbs. It seems to be the shock of choice for the widest variety of use.

    The sales numbers of Mojo’s may not warrant the added costs (passed along to the customer) of a special OEM shock run.

    PUSH tuning makes any suspension design perform better for a specific rider and their uses. Very few riders don't notice improvement in performance on any bike. And even the less efficient designs than the DW-Link such as monopivots and Horst links are greatly improved with a PUSH fine tune to come closer to the pedaling quality of a dw-Link using a stock shock. A dw-Link with a PUSH tune not only pedals better than any other design, but has far better bump compliance without being compromised by needing firm platform compression damping for more efficient pedaling.

  19. #19
    LJJ
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    Descision

    I called the bike shop in San Diego - they wanted $650 for the XR carbon. I checked with Mojo Suspension (strange co-incidence in the name?!) here in the UK, and to do a Light Compression Valving is gonna' cost me £45 ($75) - I'm happy with that.

    Thanks for the advice/feedback.
    LJJ

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