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  1. #1
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    Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend

    So I've been interested in 650s for a while. I own a mojo SL with a 150 talas. My LBS built up an HD 140 with 650 wheels and a 34 160 float fork. I rode it yesterday in CO. Hall, picture rock and Heil. This is the most amazing bike I've ever ridden. I went up things I would never have made on my SL and went down things I'd never go down on it either. I was blown away. It was like the bike turned into the greatest climbing bike when I climbed and then magically turned into the greatest downhill bike on the way down. I couldn't believe it.

    But I do realize there are many variables. I've never ridden an HD. I've never had a 160 fork. I've never ridden 650 wheels. I've never ridden a 2 X 10(which I'm not sure I cared for. Missing that one easier gear). The bike weighed just over 29 lbs with the dropper seat. So a little heavy. I could feel it. But not too bad. Just heavier than my SL.

    So, I'm psyched to demo new bikes for next year. I'm really excited for the rocky mt altitude 650b 150mm which my bike shop also carries. With all the new 650's coming out, I'd like to buy a 650 designed bike not really a modified one if I could. I'll check out 29ers too. So, I'll definitely demo a ripley and I really hope they come out with a 650 bike preferably around 150ish. If they come out with a 650 HD, I'm in. But if you've ever wondered, as I have, the HD vs the SL. The HD is unbelievable. And with the 160 float 34mm and the 650s. Holy sh*t. What a bike! Please Ibis. A new HD 650b? I'll take one.

  2. #2
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    The HD140 with 650b/27.5 wheels has ideal rock climbing pedaling clearance and geometry, BB height, etc to optimize this 27.5 inch wheel size and travel on the rocky trails that 650b wheels excel compared to 26 inch. Some want slacker head angle than 68 degrees for drops and high speed descents, and an angled head-set can do this.

    Except for having a little less suspension bottom travel landing jumps, IMO the HD140 650b rides better overall that the HD160 with 26 inch wheels.

    It's as if the HD140 was originally designed for 650b wheels.... Ibis did know that the 650b trend was coming when it was designed.

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    But can you do 650 on the original HD (pre summer 11) as they didn't have as much rear tire clearance first... that's what I've got and there doesn't seem to be much room left with say a 2.3 Ground control rear I have. Not .75" for sure...

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    Subscribed ... I'm in the same boat. Curious who's done it and what rear tire you ran.

    -Shane

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    It was a brand new HD with tubeless Nevegals 2.1. They were awesome. I think I only spun them once on some loose rock. Otherwise they were great.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumesny View Post
    But can you do 650 on the original HD (pre summer 11) as they didn't have as much rear tire clearance first... that's what I've got and there doesn't seem to be much room left with say a 2.3 Ground control rear I have. Not .75" for sure...
    Yes, the HD140, any year, with 650bx2.3 or smaller.

    A 650bx2.3 wheel with Pacenti Neo-moto tire is no more than 1/2 inch greater radius than any 26x2.3 tire. A 650b rim is 1/2 in greater radius than a 26 inch rim.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Yes, the HD140, any year, with 650bx2.3 or smaller.

    A 650bx2.3 wheel with Pacenti Neo-moto tire is no more than 1/2 inch greater radius than any 26x2.3 tire. A 650b rim is 1/2 in greater radius than a 26 inch rim.
    I meant HD 160 - reason I got an HD is for more travel, so I would hate to loose that.

    Wouldn't a 650b/27.5 be actually .75" larger R ?
    if only 1/2" it's hard to believe 1" large wheel would make such a difference... but then again I run a super tall TK 2.4 on front at the park and that is a huge tire... it feels like it rolls better...

  8. #8
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    Hackdan10 - Was the 34Float 160 at the full 160mm or was it lowered to 150mm and was it a 27.5 Float?

    [QUOTE=Hackdan10;9806336]So I've been interested in 650s for a while. I own a mojo SL with a 150 talas. My LBS built up an HD 140 with 650 wheels and a 34 160 float fork. I rode it yesterday in CO. Hall, picture rock and Heil. This is the most amazing bike I've ever ridden. I went up things I would never have made on my SL and went down things I'd never go down on it either. I was blown away. It was like the bike turned into the greatest climbing bike when I climbed and then magically turned into the greatest downhill bike on the way down. I couldn't believe it.

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    It's full 160mm 27.5 float. I wouldn't have changed anything. It felt like I was riding my SL. Didnt feel different as far as comfort/reach/geometry etc. Except that it went up and down everything. Amazing. Except now I want a new bike.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Subscribed ... I'm in the same boat. Curious who's done it and what rear tire you ran.

    -Shane
    Nobby Nic 2.35 - great tire, too large, they barely fit, I run it up front
    Maxxis Ardent 2.25 - sweet tire, with good traction and floatation, this now my primary tire
    Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3 - skinny not 2.3, lots of room to spare, but not my fave tire for traction

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Except for having a little less suspension bottom travel landing jumps, IMO the HD140 650b rides better overall that the HD160 with 26 inch wheels.
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Gram.

    Ardent sounds like a winner then. Ran the 26x2.25 as my summer rear tire.

    Are you still running a 215/63 DB Air unshimmed as a rear shock w/o issue?

    Any concerns with the forthcoming Hans Dampf as a front tire / clearing the 36 Van's Arch?

    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    Nobby Nic 2.35 - great tire, too large, they barely fit, I run it up front
    Maxxis Ardent 2.25 - sweet tire, with good traction and floatation, this now my primary tire
    Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3 - skinny not 2.3, lots of room to spare, but not my fave tire for traction
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
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  13. #13
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    Thanks Pasta/Gram

    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    Nobby Nic 2.35 - great tire, too large, they barely fit, I run it up front
    Maxxis Ardent 2.25 - sweet tire, with good traction and floatation, this now my primary tire
    Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3 - skinny not 2.3, lots of room to spare, but not my fave tire for traction
    Good info. Any news on whether Schwalbe is going to offer a NN in a smaller 650b size? I love the NN's I'm running on my HD now. Possibly the best tires I've ever tried.

    Also, are you keeping your HD at 650? Sold on it?
    - -benja- -

  14. #14
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    Benja - Schwalbe shows a NN 27.5x2.25 PSC EVO tire on their website. R2 in Germany shows it shipping in Jan

    Schwalbe Reifen Nobby Nic 27,5" | 650B x 2,25 PSC 575g 2013, 37,50 &


    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Good info. Any news on whether Schwalbe is going to offer a NN in a smaller 650b size? I love the NN's I'm running on my HD now. Possibly the best tires I've ever tried.

    Also, are you keeping your HD at 650? Sold on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    Nobby Nic 2.35 - great tire, too large, they barely fit, I run it up front
    Maxxis Ardent 2.25 - sweet tire, with good traction and floatation, this now my primary tire
    Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3 - skinny not 2.3, lots of room to spare, but not my fave tire for traction
    I was hoping to hear good things about the Ardents. Where can I mere mortal get a pair nowadays?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.
    This was my experience also with 650b on my HD. I didn't like how it felt, tall off balance, awkward in high speed turns where you have to lean the bike over alot. Then again, I have always prefered low bottom bracket on my bikes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    This was my experience also with 650b on my HD. I didn't like how it felt, tall off balance, awkward in high speed turns where you have to lean the bike over alot. Then again, I have always prefered low bottom bracket on my bikes.
    That's exactly what I was feeling as well. I don't get 27.5 on a HD. In high speed banked corners, it just doesn't handle as good. It's really noticeable. And yeah, you do have to lean, then it seems to want to fall off.
    People may not like this set up.
    Last edited by mazspeed; 10-28-2012 at 10:47 AM.

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    The entitlement runs strong within this group. Just because you like it on your trails low does not mean everyone else does, too.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    The entitlement runs strong within this group. Just because you like it on your trails low does not mean everyone else does, too.
    Maybe you should try it first. What does entitlement have to do with this thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Maybe you should try it first. What does entitlement have to do with this thread?
    I have tried. Over 150 miles on my 650b HD so far and counting, 1300+ miles on 650b bikes this year total. I think I am entitled to my own opinion about the performance of the converted bike while your original post suggested otherwise. Thanks for tuning it down a notch, I am allergic to people telling me what works for me and what not.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I have tried. Over 150 miles on my 650b HD so far and counting, 1300+ miles on 650b bikes this year total. I think I am entitled to my own opinion about the performance of the converted bike while your original post suggested otherwise. Thanks for tuning it down a notch, I am allergic to people telling me what works for me and what not.
    Hey, I am glad you like it. A few of us don't. And yes you are entitled to your own opinion, but I felt it was a poor enough ride to make my rides on it known.
    Last edited by mazspeed; 10-28-2012 at 11:26 AM.

  22. #22
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    That was a very nice note StiHacka. Thank you.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Thanks Gram.

    Ardent sounds like a winner then. Ran the 26x2.25 as my summer rear tire.

    Are you still running a 215/63 DB Air unshimmed as a rear shock w/o issue?

    Any concerns with the forthcoming Hans Dampf as a front tire / clearing the 36 Van's Arch?
    No issues with the DB Air at all. Their bottom bumper is pretty hard, and the stroke measures almost 67mm. The VAN should fit pretty much any 650B tire, so the Hans Dampf should be fine. I can't wait to try out the Super Gravity Hans Dampf, in both 650B and 26.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Good info. Any news on whether Schwalbe is going to offer a NN in a smaller 650b size? I love the NN's I'm running on my HD now. Possibly the best tires I've ever tried.

    Also, are you keeping your HD at 650? Sold on it?
    The NN 650B will come in 2.25, but it won't have SnakeSkin. Tires should be available in November sometime, but release dates are always ambiguous.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I was hoping to hear good things about the Ardents. Where can I mere mortal get a pair nowadays?
    You should be able to get your LBS to order them, or order direct from Maxxis https://www.shopmaxxis.com/b2c/

    Make sure to get the EXO sidewall protection version.

  26. #26
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    I personally like the 650B 160 HD, though for most milder conditions (mellower AM) the 140 mode is more pleasant. I never found it too tall in cornering or techy spots, and the BB height seems fine for me? If you want to feel tall and tipsy, jump on a tall 29er. My modified (100 converted to 120mm) Moots Moto XZ has a saddle to ground height 1.5 inches and BB 1 inches taller than my 650B 160 HD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    You should be able to get your LBS to order them, or order direct from Maxxis https://www.shopmaxxis.com/b2c/

    Make sure to get the EXO sidewall protection version.
    You are the man pastajet! I will ask my LBS about availability, they seem to be out of stock on their online store.

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    Ardent 2.25 650B

    Ardent 2.25 650B- How much cleareance in the 2012 HD rear? Does anyone have a pic??

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.
    Interesting... I definitely feel more on rather than in, but finding the 650b reacts really well to aggressive counter steer & leaning the bike, and more upright or "still" body position. So it's an adjustment for sure, but for me that translates to faster & more fun cornering supermoto-style. More traction for more braapability! Guess that goes to show different strokes for different folks... (Granted I'm on a MojoC, so it's not nec. apples-apples.) Having said that I wouldn't say no to a lower BB to bring back the in-bike feeling: the best of both worlds.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Interesting... I definitely feel more on rather than in, but finding the 650b reacts really well to aggressive counter steer & leaning the bike, and more upright or "still" body position. So it's an adjustment for sure, but for me that translates to faster & more fun cornering supermoto-style. More traction for more braapability! Guess that goes to show different strokes for different folks... (Granted I'm on a MojoC, so it's not nec. apples-apples.) Having said that I wouldn't say no to a lower BB to bring back the in-bike feeling: the best of both worlds.
    Yeah it's weird, some like, some don't. I don't know if weight has anything to do with my dislike of the 27.5 on the HD or riding style.
    I never get that "in" the bike feel like I do on the Nomad or the new Carbine, which I don't like, but it's a vastly different feel for me. I tend to bomb down and jump and take fast corners on many of my rides and felt that the bike just seemed to lay over and not handle as well. It was really noticeable on the downhill descents when ramping it into a corner at speed. I did not have any rock garden or single-track experience with this setup, just my typical jones hill ride in LG California. I tend to ride a mt bike more like I did with my BMX bike years ago, and that might have something to do with what my bike should feel like. Maybe, I don't know.
    I'm certainly not against the 27.5, but just didn't feel right on the HD. At least for me.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    You should be able to get your LBS to order them, or order direct from Maxxis https://www.shopmaxxis.com/b2c/

    Make sure to get the EXO sidewall protection version.
    Hey Pastajet, how do the dimensions of the Ardent compare with the Neo Moto? I just trashed another Neo 2.1 last night and would like to try something different, but I'm concerned that the Ardent may not fit the rear of my Mojo SL. Neo 2.1 fits pretty well, but it's tight enough that I haven't even attempted a Neo 2.3.... What do you think? Any chance with the Ardent 2.25?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Hey Pastajet, how do the dimensions of the Ardent compare with the Neo Moto? I just trashed another Neo 2.1 last night and would like to try something different, but I'm concerned that the Ardent may not fit the rear of my Mojo SL. Neo 2.1 fits pretty well, but it's tight enough that I haven't even attempted a Neo 2.3.... What do you think? Any chance with the Ardent 2.25?
    I am in the same boat as the Baconator here. Would like to know the comparative size of the Ardent 2.25 and Nobby Nic 2.25 to both the Neo 2.1 and 2.3. I am running the Neo 2.1 on the rear of my Mojo SL and would like to try something new.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lml427 View Post
    I am in the same boat as the Baconator here. Would like to know the comparative size of the Ardent 2.25 and Nobby Nic 2.25 to both the Neo 2.1 and 2.3. I am running the Neo 2.1 on the rear of my Mojo SL and would like to try something new.

    Thanks!
    ^^^ and Hans Dampf 2.25.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.
    Just comparing HD140 with 650b wheels and a HD160 with 26" wheels, the BB height measures the same. The difference I feel riding is the 650b HD140 feels a little quicker turning having a bit less steering-trail, and rolling rocks and roots is easier with the 1" taller 650b wheels. With the 650b HD140 tight technical handling is quicker, and slower rock climbing and crawling is easier rolling. For smoother faster banked, rolling, bermed BMX type DH the smaller 26" wheels with the HD160 with good tread is a little slacker steering, softer 160mm suspension drops the BB deeper in fast cornering g-load compressions, overall more stable at faster ride speeds, and the longer travel is more plush landing smooth landing jumps with the same BB height. With the same travel 650b make the same jumps feel smaller and easier than on 26" wheels.

    Someday, maybe there will be an evolved HD160 that clears 650b without the currently required bottom travel limiting custom modifications, having a low BB as an optional adjustment, that can rail BMX type smooth berms and roller coaster DH runs. And soon with better tires than available now, 650b will grip and rail smooth hardpack corners better than any 26" wheel and tire combo can, besides already rolling roots and rocks easier.

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    Hey Hackdan10 I just got back yesterday from an amazing 9 days of riding in Moab and Fruita where I got a chance to demo a SLR and a HD160. Twenty two of us Canadians flew down to celebrate a bunch of October birthdays and we had lots of fun. For starters I ride a MojoC 140mm fork. I went to Uranium Cycles to rent a HD and saw this beautiful 150 sl-r sitting there for rent and having never seen one in person I jumped at the chance. I swapped out my pedals seat and stem so the bike fit just like my classic and I took it and rode slick rock. It was freaking awesome and I said to my wife,"unless something comes along better this is my new bike." Well the next day I went back and decided to rent the hd160 and then rode the Whole Enchilada from Kokopelli, too much snow and ice to go higher than that. Well I was truly blown away, this bike was miles ahead of the sl-r. At speed it just ate rocks up and the stability and balance I had thru technical sections was incredible. So that night I took the bike back to Uranium to return it but it was so much fun that I couldn't so I rented it again just to see if it truly was so good. The next day we rode Amasa Back and OMG did this bike climb. There was a steep section of 4-5 ledges to lift up on and I cleaned the whole thing while everyone else walked it. I'm not saying this to brag because I was with some strong riders who kick my butt back home. The hd just really climbed that good, it really took my riding to a new level. I have never ridden a 650b bike but I just wanted to let you know how well a 26" hd climbs. If the 650b option made it climb better I would be really impressed with this bike. I've never had so much fun on a bike than the hd so now I want one.
    Cheers,
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    Gram - do you think the NN 2.25 will clear well or be tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    The NN 650B will come in 2.25, but it won't have SnakeSkin. Tires should be available in November sometime, but release dates are always ambiguous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Just comparing HD140 with 650b wheels and a HD160 with 26" wheels, the BB height measures the same. The difference I feel riding is the 650b HD140 feels a little quicker turning having a bit less steering-trail, and rolling rocks and roots is easier with the 1" taller 650b wheels. With the 650b HD140 tight technical handling is quicker, and slower rock climbing and crawling is easier rolling. For smoother faster banked, rolling, bermed BMX type DH the smaller 26" wheels with the HD160 with good tread is a little slacker steering, softer 160mm suspension drops the BB deeper in fast cornering g-load compressions, overall more stable at faster ride speeds, and the longer travel is more plush landing smooth landing jumps with the same BB height. With the same travel 650b make the same jumps feel smaller and easier than on 26" wheels.

    Someday, maybe there will be an evolved HD160 that clears 650b without the currently required bottom travel limiting custom modifications, having a low BB as an optional adjustment, that can rail BMX type smooth berms and roller coaster DH runs. And soon with better tires than available now, 650b will grip and rail smooth hardpack corners better than any 26" wheel and tire combo can, besides already rolling roots and rocks easier.
    Yeah I was not getting the stability improvements over the 26 wheels. It felt different, not so much worse, but not better, just slower in the air and slower downhill corning. I feel lighter and more flickable on the 26 wheels on the HD. with a 160mm fork and a 140 or 160 rear, my bike feels great as is, but running a 27.5 on another HD felt much different, and it just was not better in climbing or descending. Again I didn't go through technical rock terrain on that ride, but in the situation which I was riding, the 26 wheel is better. For me at least. It's just more stable. I don't care much about angles and how it should feel due to this or that. I typically use the trail to dictate my feel. I do like the 27.5 wheel for other bikes but not this one.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Gram - do you think the NN 2.25 will clear well or be tight?
    I haven't tested one, but they should be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Good info. Any news on whether Schwalbe is going to offer a NN in a smaller 650b size? I love the NN's I'm running on my HD now. Possibly the best tires I've ever tried.

    Also, are you keeping your HD at 650? Sold on it?
    Yes, I am sold on 650B on the HD, but I do wish I could jam fat tires in there. I will probably revert to 26 when I get the Hans Dampf Super Gravity 2.35 to test

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    I was in fruita last week as well. But I was back on my SL. Man I missed the HD. I'm gonna demo it as a 160 next with 26" tires. Just such a different beast than the SL. Now I know what everyone is referring to with the HD. Amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    Ardent 2.25 650B- How much cleareance in the 2012 HD rear? Does anyone have a pic??
    It fits on the HD (never tried on any other Mojo as yet), but there isn't much room left. I would call the Ardent a fat 2.25, while the Neo-Moto 2.3 is smaller and has plenty of room. But the Neo-Moto traction isn't as good as the Ardents. I'll try and upload a picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    It fits on the HD (never tried on any other Mojo as yet), but there isn't much room left. I would call the Ardent a fat 2.25, while the Neo-Moto 2.3 is smaller and has plenty of room. But the Neo-Moto traction isn't as good as the Ardents. I'll try and upload a picture.
    Thanks Gram....that's all I need to hear to know the Ardent's a no-go on a Mojo SL.

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    I'm really hoping Ibis makes a dedicated 650b 160mm travel frame. I think DW is the best performing suspension out there and this 650b is a great compromise on tire size for my shorter legs. The only other 650b DW frame is the Turner Burner but it's 140mm and aluminum.

    Uh, actually no, Ibis DO NOT make a 650b frame. I just bought my HD and another frame would kill me
    We Ride In God's Country!

  44. #44
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    Here is a comparo of the NN 2.35, Ardent 2.25 and Neo-Moto 2.3 (the NN and Ardent are slightly worn, so might be 1/16" taller when new). I will try and get another one looking length wise when I have a chance.

    I just got my new 650B wheels built, using Hadley hubs, Pacenti DL31 rims and DT Swiss Competition 14/15 spokes (I prefer a robust build).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-tirecomparo_1024.jpg  

    Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-hd_dl31.jpg  

    Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-dl31.jpg  


  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post

    I just got my new 650B wheels built, using Hadley hubs, Pacenti DL31 rims and DT Swiss Competition 14/15 spokes (I prefer a robust build).
    So, with all the tires you have tried it looks like you still prefer the Noe Moto both front and rear...is that a safe assumption?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarshack View Post
    So, with all the tires you have tried it looks like you still prefer the Noe Moto both front and rear...is that a safe assumption?
    Actually, I like the NN 2.35 when they are fresh. My personal current preference order is: 1st NN, 2nd Ardent (especially the rear), 3rd Neo Moto. I tear tires to pieces (of any brand) pretty quickly due to the rough treatment in rock gardens, rocky terrain, gravel, etc., although the NN didn't last me too long (premature side knob death).

    The Neo Moto's are durable (though a bit skinny), so they are currently my only tire I have left that has some good meat left on them. I can't wait to try out the Hans Dampf in 650B, since I did find them a great tire, with good traction and durability. Currently it's tough to find any 650B tire from any manufacturer, so it's slim pickings.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackdan10 View Post
    It was a brand new HD with tubeless Nevegals 2.1. They were awesome. I think I only spun them once on some loose rock. Otherwise they were great.
    Wouldn't you get the same effect with a 2.35 size
    26"? We are talking 12mm difference right?

  48. #48
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    Nobby Nic 2.35 Measured Specs:

    Weight - 714 and 692 grams
    Full tire height - 27 13/16"
    Carcass width - 2.28" or 57.8mm
    Carcass/knobby height - 2.1" or 53.7mm

    NeoMoto 2.3 Measured Specs:

    Weight - 722 and 719 grams
    Full tire height - 27 5/16"
    Carcass width - 2.1"or 53.7mm
    Knobby Width - 2.25" or 57.2mm
    Carcass/knobby height - 1.95" or 49.6mm

    Note: I'll measure the Ardent when I get a chance

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