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  1. #26
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    I personally like the 650B 160 HD, though for most milder conditions (mellower AM) the 140 mode is more pleasant. I never found it too tall in cornering or techy spots, and the BB height seems fine for me? If you want to feel tall and tipsy, jump on a tall 29er. My modified (100 converted to 120mm) Moots Moto XZ has a saddle to ground height 1.5 inches and BB 1 inches taller than my 650B 160 HD.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    You should be able to get your LBS to order them, or order direct from Maxxis https://www.shopmaxxis.com/b2c/

    Make sure to get the EXO sidewall protection version.
    You are the man pastajet! I will ask my LBS about availability, they seem to be out of stock on their online store.

  3. #28
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    Ardent 2.25 650B

    Ardent 2.25 650B- How much cleareance in the 2012 HD rear? Does anyone have a pic??

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.
    Interesting... I definitely feel more on rather than in, but finding the 650b reacts really well to aggressive counter steer & leaning the bike, and more upright or "still" body position. So it's an adjustment for sure, but for me that translates to faster & more fun cornering supermoto-style. More traction for more braapability! Guess that goes to show different strokes for different folks... (Granted I'm on a MojoC, so it's not nec. apples-apples.) Having said that I wouldn't say no to a lower BB to bring back the in-bike feeling: the best of both worlds.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Interesting... I definitely feel more on rather than in, but finding the 650b reacts really well to aggressive counter steer & leaning the bike, and more upright or "still" body position. So it's an adjustment for sure, but for me that translates to faster & more fun cornering supermoto-style. More traction for more braapability! Guess that goes to show different strokes for different folks... (Granted I'm on a MojoC, so it's not nec. apples-apples.) Having said that I wouldn't say no to a lower BB to bring back the in-bike feeling: the best of both worlds.
    Yeah it's weird, some like, some don't. I don't know if weight has anything to do with my dislike of the 27.5 on the HD or riding style.
    I never get that "in" the bike feel like I do on the Nomad or the new Carbine, which I don't like, but it's a vastly different feel for me. I tend to bomb down and jump and take fast corners on many of my rides and felt that the bike just seemed to lay over and not handle as well. It was really noticeable on the downhill descents when ramping it into a corner at speed. I did not have any rock garden or single-track experience with this setup, just my typical jones hill ride in LG California. I tend to ride a mt bike more like I did with my BMX bike years ago, and that might have something to do with what my bike should feel like. Maybe, I don't know.
    I'm certainly not against the 27.5, but just didn't feel right on the HD. At least for me.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    You should be able to get your LBS to order them, or order direct from Maxxis https://www.shopmaxxis.com/b2c/

    Make sure to get the EXO sidewall protection version.
    Hey Pastajet, how do the dimensions of the Ardent compare with the Neo Moto? I just trashed another Neo 2.1 last night and would like to try something different, but I'm concerned that the Ardent may not fit the rear of my Mojo SL. Neo 2.1 fits pretty well, but it's tight enough that I haven't even attempted a Neo 2.3.... What do you think? Any chance with the Ardent 2.25?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    Hey Pastajet, how do the dimensions of the Ardent compare with the Neo Moto? I just trashed another Neo 2.1 last night and would like to try something different, but I'm concerned that the Ardent may not fit the rear of my Mojo SL. Neo 2.1 fits pretty well, but it's tight enough that I haven't even attempted a Neo 2.3.... What do you think? Any chance with the Ardent 2.25?
    I am in the same boat as the Baconator here. Would like to know the comparative size of the Ardent 2.25 and Nobby Nic 2.25 to both the Neo 2.1 and 2.3. I am running the Neo 2.1 on the rear of my Mojo SL and would like to try something new.

    Thanks!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lml427 View Post
    I am in the same boat as the Baconator here. Would like to know the comparative size of the Ardent 2.25 and Nobby Nic 2.25 to both the Neo 2.1 and 2.3. I am running the Neo 2.1 on the rear of my Mojo SL and would like to try something new.

    Thanks!
    ^^^ and Hans Dampf 2.25.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Does not handle nearly as good. At least in my experience. A 140 with 27.5 wheels doesn't make the bike handle as good on the fast downhill rails as my bike at 140 or 160 with 26's. It just feels off.
    Just comparing HD140 with 650b wheels and a HD160 with 26" wheels, the BB height measures the same. The difference I feel riding is the 650b HD140 feels a little quicker turning having a bit less steering-trail, and rolling rocks and roots is easier with the 1" taller 650b wheels. With the 650b HD140 tight technical handling is quicker, and slower rock climbing and crawling is easier rolling. For smoother faster banked, rolling, bermed BMX type DH the smaller 26" wheels with the HD160 with good tread is a little slacker steering, softer 160mm suspension drops the BB deeper in fast cornering g-load compressions, overall more stable at faster ride speeds, and the longer travel is more plush landing smooth landing jumps with the same BB height. With the same travel 650b make the same jumps feel smaller and easier than on 26" wheels.

    Someday, maybe there will be an evolved HD160 that clears 650b without the currently required bottom travel limiting custom modifications, having a low BB as an optional adjustment, that can rail BMX type smooth berms and roller coaster DH runs. And soon with better tires than available now, 650b will grip and rail smooth hardpack corners better than any 26" wheel and tire combo can, besides already rolling roots and rocks easier.

  10. #35
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    Hey Hackdan10 I just got back yesterday from an amazing 9 days of riding in Moab and Fruita where I got a chance to demo a SLR and a HD160. Twenty two of us Canadians flew down to celebrate a bunch of October birthdays and we had lots of fun. For starters I ride a MojoC 140mm fork. I went to Uranium Cycles to rent a HD and saw this beautiful 150 sl-r sitting there for rent and having never seen one in person I jumped at the chance. I swapped out my pedals seat and stem so the bike fit just like my classic and I took it and rode slick rock. It was freaking awesome and I said to my wife,"unless something comes along better this is my new bike." Well the next day I went back and decided to rent the hd160 and then rode the Whole Enchilada from Kokopelli, too much snow and ice to go higher than that. Well I was truly blown away, this bike was miles ahead of the sl-r. At speed it just ate rocks up and the stability and balance I had thru technical sections was incredible. So that night I took the bike back to Uranium to return it but it was so much fun that I couldn't so I rented it again just to see if it truly was so good. The next day we rode Amasa Back and OMG did this bike climb. There was a steep section of 4-5 ledges to lift up on and I cleaned the whole thing while everyone else walked it. I'm not saying this to brag because I was with some strong riders who kick my butt back home. The hd just really climbed that good, it really took my riding to a new level. I have never ridden a 650b bike but I just wanted to let you know how well a 26" hd climbs. If the 650b option made it climb better I would be really impressed with this bike. I've never had so much fun on a bike than the hd so now I want one.
    Cheers,
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  11. #36
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    Gram - do you think the NN 2.25 will clear well or be tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    The NN 650B will come in 2.25, but it won't have SnakeSkin. Tires should be available in November sometime, but release dates are always ambiguous.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Just comparing HD140 with 650b wheels and a HD160 with 26" wheels, the BB height measures the same. The difference I feel riding is the 650b HD140 feels a little quicker turning having a bit less steering-trail, and rolling rocks and roots is easier with the 1" taller 650b wheels. With the 650b HD140 tight technical handling is quicker, and slower rock climbing and crawling is easier rolling. For smoother faster banked, rolling, bermed BMX type DH the smaller 26" wheels with the HD160 with good tread is a little slacker steering, softer 160mm suspension drops the BB deeper in fast cornering g-load compressions, overall more stable at faster ride speeds, and the longer travel is more plush landing smooth landing jumps with the same BB height. With the same travel 650b make the same jumps feel smaller and easier than on 26" wheels.

    Someday, maybe there will be an evolved HD160 that clears 650b without the currently required bottom travel limiting custom modifications, having a low BB as an optional adjustment, that can rail BMX type smooth berms and roller coaster DH runs. And soon with better tires than available now, 650b will grip and rail smooth hardpack corners better than any 26" wheel and tire combo can, besides already rolling roots and rocks easier.
    Yeah I was not getting the stability improvements over the 26 wheels. It felt different, not so much worse, but not better, just slower in the air and slower downhill corning. I feel lighter and more flickable on the 26 wheels on the HD. with a 160mm fork and a 140 or 160 rear, my bike feels great as is, but running a 27.5 on another HD felt much different, and it just was not better in climbing or descending. Again I didn't go through technical rock terrain on that ride, but in the situation which I was riding, the 26 wheel is better. For me at least. It's just more stable. I don't care much about angles and how it should feel due to this or that. I typically use the trail to dictate my feel. I do like the 27.5 wheel for other bikes but not this one.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    Gram - do you think the NN 2.25 will clear well or be tight?
    I haven't tested one, but they should be fine.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    Good info. Any news on whether Schwalbe is going to offer a NN in a smaller 650b size? I love the NN's I'm running on my HD now. Possibly the best tires I've ever tried.

    Also, are you keeping your HD at 650? Sold on it?
    Yes, I am sold on 650B on the HD, but I do wish I could jam fat tires in there. I will probably revert to 26 when I get the Hans Dampf Super Gravity 2.35 to test

  15. #40
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    I was in fruita last week as well. But I was back on my SL. Man I missed the HD. I'm gonna demo it as a 160 next with 26" tires. Just such a different beast than the SL. Now I know what everyone is referring to with the HD. Amazing.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    Ardent 2.25 650B- How much cleareance in the 2012 HD rear? Does anyone have a pic??
    It fits on the HD (never tried on any other Mojo as yet), but there isn't much room left. I would call the Ardent a fat 2.25, while the Neo-Moto 2.3 is smaller and has plenty of room. But the Neo-Moto traction isn't as good as the Ardents. I'll try and upload a picture.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    It fits on the HD (never tried on any other Mojo as yet), but there isn't much room left. I would call the Ardent a fat 2.25, while the Neo-Moto 2.3 is smaller and has plenty of room. But the Neo-Moto traction isn't as good as the Ardents. I'll try and upload a picture.
    Thanks Gram....that's all I need to hear to know the Ardent's a no-go on a Mojo SL.

  18. #43
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    I'm really hoping Ibis makes a dedicated 650b 160mm travel frame. I think DW is the best performing suspension out there and this 650b is a great compromise on tire size for my shorter legs. The only other 650b DW frame is the Turner Burner but it's 140mm and aluminum.

    Uh, actually no, Ibis DO NOT make a 650b frame. I just bought my HD and another frame would kill me
    We Ride In God's Country!

  19. #44
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    Here is a comparo of the NN 2.35, Ardent 2.25 and Neo-Moto 2.3 (the NN and Ardent are slightly worn, so might be 1/16" taller when new). I will try and get another one looking length wise when I have a chance.

    I just got my new 650B wheels built, using Hadley hubs, Pacenti DL31 rims and DT Swiss Competition 14/15 spokes (I prefer a robust build).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-tirecomparo_1024.jpg  

    Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-hd_dl31.jpg  

    Demoed an HD140 with 650 wheels this weekend-dl31.jpg  


  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post

    I just got my new 650B wheels built, using Hadley hubs, Pacenti DL31 rims and DT Swiss Competition 14/15 spokes (I prefer a robust build).
    So, with all the tires you have tried it looks like you still prefer the Noe Moto both front and rear...is that a safe assumption?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarshack View Post
    So, with all the tires you have tried it looks like you still prefer the Noe Moto both front and rear...is that a safe assumption?
    Actually, I like the NN 2.35 when they are fresh. My personal current preference order is: 1st NN, 2nd Ardent (especially the rear), 3rd Neo Moto. I tear tires to pieces (of any brand) pretty quickly due to the rough treatment in rock gardens, rocky terrain, gravel, etc., although the NN didn't last me too long (premature side knob death).

    The Neo Moto's are durable (though a bit skinny), so they are currently my only tire I have left that has some good meat left on them. I can't wait to try out the Hans Dampf in 650B, since I did find them a great tire, with good traction and durability. Currently it's tough to find any 650B tire from any manufacturer, so it's slim pickings.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackdan10 View Post
    It was a brand new HD with tubeless Nevegals 2.1. They were awesome. I think I only spun them once on some loose rock. Otherwise they were great.
    Wouldn't you get the same effect with a 2.35 size
    26"? We are talking 12mm difference right?

  23. #48
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    Nobby Nic 2.35 Measured Specs:

    Weight - 714 and 692 grams
    Full tire height - 27 13/16"
    Carcass width - 2.28" or 57.8mm
    Carcass/knobby height - 2.1" or 53.7mm

    NeoMoto 2.3 Measured Specs:

    Weight - 722 and 719 grams
    Full tire height - 27 5/16"
    Carcass width - 2.1"or 53.7mm
    Knobby Width - 2.25" or 57.2mm
    Carcass/knobby height - 1.95" or 49.6mm

    Note: I'll measure the Ardent when I get a chance

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