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  1. #1
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    Conversion kit to 650b for mojo

    Some years ago Derby wrote about this opportunity but Ibis concluded that it was impossible.
    Now in this "new 650b's era" why Ibis don't think about to make a conversion kit to increase the rear clearance space allowing all of us happy....like intense owners?

    More tire clearance, no problems with seat tube/suspension.....maybe at least 80% (or more) of mojo/mojoSl/mojosl-r/HD1-2/HD140 will be converted....

    Indeed the mojo is still the most "sexy" bike even designed.

    A mojo's fan...Ernesto

  2. #2
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    I'm hoping they will release a 650b rear end, to fit the Mojo

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    Not completely related, but I did send Ibis an email a week ago asking if they had considered a 650b build kit for the HD 140. Scot said they had considered it, but for now decided against it. He also mention that they have a lot in the pipeline, so who knows what we'll see in the next few months.

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    thanks!
    Why don't we make a list of people who would consider to buy a conversion kit for the mojo (all models) to send to Ibis guys to help them to decide!
    1. edibetta from Italy

    cheers
    Ernesto

  6. #6
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    I have been running 650b front and rear on my Mojo SL for over two years. It's awesome, but I would apreciate more clearance, so if there would be a roomier rear triangle I would be up for it.

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    Good job! A conversion kit would be great...

    Quote Originally Posted by lml427 View Post
    I have been running 650b front and rear on my Mojo SL for over two years. It's awesome, but I would apreciate more clearance, so if there would be a roomier rear triangle I would be up for it.
    I'm quite stoked Ibis has certified the HD 140 for 650b, but I'm definitely concerned about clearance for a decent sized tire (Nobby Nic is my current fave 26" tire) and would be incredibly psyched for Ibis to offer a new 650b rear with a bit more clearance (another few mm?), especially for HD 160 owners.

    Seems doable.

    Ibis listens to their customers better then 99% of the companies out there, let them know what you want!
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  9. #9
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    Third season now on my Mojo HD so I'm ready for a new whip.

    I'll throw down TOMORROW on a specific 650b designed Mojo HD(I think conversions will be a compromise) with:
    - 150mm travel
    - slightly shorter seat tube
    - routing for a Stealth dropper
    - preferably cables running under top tube
    - downtube and chain stay protector as nice as the Yetis

  10. #10
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    Convertible drop-outs

    Convertible drop-outs, like Intense has done for the Carbine, to optimize the same frame and swingarm for 160mm travel using either 26" or 650b wheels.

    This would also enable further options for higher or lower BB heights for either size wheel, in the same frame and swingarm.

    The 650b HD140 already has perfectly optimized geometry now, ideal unweighted BB height at 13.7" and unweighted frame angles 68'/71.5' for heavy duty trail use.

    But the HD160 with 650b mounted needs modifications, (easily shimmed shorter shock travel) to clear the seat tube, and lower the BB (aftermarket available offset shock mount bushings), limiting travel to only 152mm (6").

  11. #11
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    I'm in. Tire clearance now that we are getting some larger rear rubber options (I want to run Hans Dampfs and Ardents) is my concern in converting
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  12. #12
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    i actually like higher BB on HD160 i barely get any pedal strikes now, but add me to the list for more rear clearance.

  13. #13
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    +1 for more rear clearance w/ 650b... Derby hit the nail on the head--- convertible rear drop outs..
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    Yes.

    I'd be up for 650B on my SL-R
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by slideways666 View Post
    +1 for more rear clearance w/ 650b... Derby hit the nail on the head--- convertible rear drop outs..
    Would that actually be doable with the current-gen HD (142x12) ?

    Don't have my bike in front of me.... But seems like it would work. How much would they be offset?
    Last edited by benja55; 09-06-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak View Post
    I'm in. Tire clearance now that we are getting some larger rear rubber options (I want to run Hans Dampfs and Ardents) is my concern in converting
    That's my issue as well. I'd like to run NN's and Hans too.
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  17. #17
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Here's a look at how Intense is doing their conversion...

    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Convertible drop-outs, like Intense has done for the Carbine, to optimize the same frame and swingarm for 160mm travel using either 26" or 650b wheels.
    The Intense dropouts are a lot easier to swap out it looks like, in part because the whole thing is modular.

    So for the HD we're really talking a new rear triangle when we mean "conversion".

    Just to be clear. Or am I missing something?
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  18. #18
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    I'd be in for a HD 650B rear triangle that would give more tire clearance...whether that means an adjustable drop out design or not.

  19. #19
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    Count me in. I'm holding out upgrading my (650B converted) Mojo to see what the market comes up with over the next year or so, and this would seal the deal for me. The HD is already one of the most (if not THE most) versatile bikes out there, and this would just make it more so. Could see arguments for adopting this for either/both HD or SL-R. Will defer to the Ibis wizards, and same goes for dropouts vs. swingarm swaps.
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  20. #20
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again.....
    Count me in.

  21. #21
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    I keep updating:
    - edibetta
    - lml427
    - robnow
    -derby
    -seleniak
    -brankulo
    -slideways666
    -fishboy2807
    -benja55
    -Makoto
    -budgie
    -doismellbacon
    ........

    more people more possibility...... within 2-3 days I'll try to send to Scott an email adding the list in the Italian forum where others riders will be happy to switch to 650b....with enough rear clearance.

    PS: During Eurobike in Fradrishaffen (Germany) ibis presented as news only an HD with both wheel 650b....waitng for the Ripley and maybe the KIT!

    Cheers

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    Add me to the list. I would be all over that like stink on a monkey.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by benja55 View Post
    The Intense dropouts are a lot easier to swap out it looks like, in part because the whole thing is modular.

    So for the HD we're really talking a new rear triangle when we mean "conversion".

    Just to be clear. Or am I missing something?
    Yes, Ibis would have to alter the existing swingarm cf molds and jigs to bond modular drop-out mounts, instead of the current fixed geometry drop-outs. The brake mount needs to be included in the left side modular drop-out to be concentric.

    Colin is an excellent engineer, he'd have no problem with designing such a minor alteration.

    Modular drop-outs could add up to an ounce of weight having the added small bolts. Although I'm confident Colin could limit the difference to much less. An ounce difference is nothing for the HD, the frame weights probably vary that much already, but weight weenies buying a new SL or SL-R and Tranny might have a psychosis about any added weight. Some of the old swingarm molds could be kept unchanged for those who want to stay with 26" wheel fixed drop-outs, for the lightest potential bike build.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Colin is an excellent engineer, he'd have no problem with designing such a minor alteration.
    I'm sure you're right. The issue would be cost of new molds & jigs, whether the potential sales would justify that. It'd be great, but I'm not holding my breath: 650B is still a fringe market, and even if it lives up to the hype it's going to take time to reach mainstream volume. Unfortunately it's going to take more than a handful of us freaks on MTBR...
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    I'm sure you're right. The issue would be cost of new molds & jigs, whether the potential sales would justify that. It'd be great, but I'm not holding my breath: 650B is still a fringe market, and even if it lives up to the hype it's going to take time to reach mainstream volume. Unfortunately it's going to take more than a handful of us freaks on MTBR...
    The largest avalanche begins with a single snow flake, Grasshopper.

    Seriously, though... I agree with you that it will take a large clamoring market, but I believe that will come with time. However, when that happens they may be inclined to engineer a whole new bike.
    I've also wondered what DW licensing rules might hinder changes to the existing design. Dave's very particular and proud (rightfully) about everything being just so...down to the fraction of a millimeter. Can Ibis change variables of the DW equation like wheel size, CS length, shock stoke, etc., and still apply that little magic decal to the chainstay?

  26. #26
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    I'd imagine Ibis is taking a wait and see attitude on 650b for now. It would be a pretty big financial gamble to invest in tooling and molds for something that may or may not take off. The safest, and most likely route for them would be to offer a 650b build kit for the existing HD 140. That would give them an opportunity to test the market without taking an unreasonable (and expensive) risk.

    That all said, if they did offer a larger wheeled version of the SLR I'd be all over it.
    Last edited by ripn; 09-07-2012 at 10:48 PM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripn View Post
    I'd imagine Ibis is taking a wait and see attitude on 650b for now. It would be a pretty big financial gamble to invest in tooling and molds for something that may or may not take off. The safest, and most likely route for them would be to offer a 650b build kit for the existing HD 140. That would give them an opprotunity to test the market without taking an unreasonable (and expensive) risk.

    That all said, if they did offer a larger wheeled version of the SLR I'd be all over it.
    Yes, agreed....not that I've talked to any of them about it.
    and +1 on the 650b SLR!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    The largest avalanche begins with a single snow flake, Grasshopper.

    Seriously, though... I agree with you that it will take a large clamoring market, but I believe that will come with time. However, when that happens they may be inclined to engineer a whole new bike.
    I've also wondered what DW licensing rules might hinder changes to the existing design. Dave's very particular and proud (rightfully) about everything being just so...down to the fraction of a millimeter. Can Ibis change variables of the DW equation like wheel size, CS length, shock stoke, etc., and still apply that little magic decal to the chainstay?
    DW wouldn't object, the HD160 to HD140 conversion is a bigger change to anti-squat rate than 650b wheels change anti-squat rate to either set up.

    Just swapping 650b wheels into any 26" suspension frame, increases anti-squat and anti-dive rates. After swapping from 26" to 650b, shifting one cog gear higher makes nearly the same anti-squat rate. With modular drop-outs, lowering the 650b unweighted BB to 26" wheel height and lengthening the stay slightly for more clearance would bring the rate back to the same as with 26" wheel final drive gear rates.

    Modular drop-outs have been a request from some of us for the Mojo before 650b became available, to increase the BB height of the original Mojo with 26" wheels to improve rough trail pedaling clearance. 650b fitting to my Mojo swingarm has cured that too low BB problem for me. Now the modular drop-outs are desirable for lowering the BB for 650b Mojo riders of buff smooth trail, such as Santa Cruz, and of course nearly all of southern California where about half of all bikes are sold.

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    Add me to the list.

  30. #30
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    Me too

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    DW wouldn't object, the HD160 to HD140 conversion is a bigger change to anti-squat rate than 650b wheels change anti-squat rate to either set up.

    Just swapping 650b wheels into any 26" suspension frame, increases anti-squat and anti-dive rates. After swapping from 26" to 650b, shifting one cog gear higher makes nearly the same anti-squat rate. With modular drop-outs, lowering the 650b unweighted BB to 26" wheel height and lengthening the stay slightly for more clearance would bring the rate back to the same as with 26" wheel final drive gear rates.

    Modular drop-outs have been a request from some of us for the Mojo before 650b became available, to increase the BB height of the original Mojo with 26" wheels to improve rough trail pedaling clearance. 650b fitting to my Mojo swingarm has cured that too low BB problem for me. Now the modular drop-outs are desirable for lowering the BB for 650b Mojo riders of buff smooth trail, such as Santa Cruz, and of course nearly all of southern California where about half of all bikes are sold.
    -------------------
    From a tooling & development standpoint:
    Minimum development required for two 650 specific Mojos: One rear triangle mold (very expensive capital cost), 2 sets of links (to mate to SLR & HD, rather inexpensive from a tooling perspective). Engineering goals to increase tire clearance, optimize BB height and "centers" front & rear for "proper" Ibis handling, all while maintaining critical DW kinematics at the new numbers (a bunch of time & expense and includes DW time, even it's only to approve it). You don't really need a modular dropout because only one rear triangle mold is required, and that would also be required for a modular dropout anyway.

    So, while it seems simple on the face of it (a single triangle mold & some links), it's actually a pretty big project that would take alott of resources from a pretty small & focused development team. The team would also need to get some amount of DW's time - his schedule could very well be packed for months.

    While we still need to urge (thank you Derby), I'm going to cut the Ibisians some slack & give them the time to get it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbarn View Post
    -------------------
    From a tooling & development standpoint:
    Minimum development required for two 650 specific Mojos: One rear triangle mold (very expensive capital cost), 2 sets of links (to mate to SLR & HD, rather inexpensive from a tooling perspective). Engineering goals to increase tire clearance, optimize BB height and "centers" front & rear for "proper" Ibis handling, all while maintaining critical DW kinematics at the new numbers (a bunch of time & expense and includes DW time, even it's only to approve it). You don't really need a modular dropout because only one rear triangle mold is required, and that would also be required for a modular dropout anyway.

    So, while it seems simple on the face of it (a single triangle mold & some links), it's actually a pretty big project that would take alott of resources from a pretty small & focused development team. The team would also need to get some amount of DW's time - his schedule could very well be packed for months.

    While we still need to urge (thank you Derby), I'm going to cut the Ibisians some slack & give them the time to get it right.
    I don't know if ibis'll plan a 650b but for sure if they would take in account an expansion kit of mojos they already have more than half project already done....with 2 advantages:
    - quicker project
    - with a conversion kit they will make all the old mojo owners more happy with a new 650b without spending for a new bike!

    Of course as we say in Italy...between to say and to make there is the sea!

    Ernesto

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    Quote Originally Posted by edibetta View Post
    I don't know if ibis'll plan a 650b but for sure if they would take in account an expansion kit of mojos they already have more than half project already done....with 2 advantages:
    - quicker project
    - with a conversion kit they will make all the old mojo owners more happy with a new 650b without spending for a new bike!

    Of course as we say in Italy...between to say and to make there is the sea!

    Ernesto
    So we both wish Ibis "in boca al lupo", Ernesto!!

  34. #34
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    Yes

  35. #35
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    Anyone know where I can find a link to the article where ibis states the HD is 650b compatible? I googled and can't find it. I think it was on some review site.

  36. #36
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    Ibis public sanction of 650b use with the HD140

    Quote Originally Posted by CasinoKiD View Post
    Anyone know where I can find a link to the article where ibis states the HD is 650b compatible? I googled and can't find it. I think it was on some review site.
    Links to public sanction of 650b use with the HD140:

    Here's a link straight to the article in the January 26, 2012 of MountainBike.com (on page 2)
    Fox, RockShox, DT-Swiss, Schwalbe and Others Develop 650b gear | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com


    Scot forwarded the link to the article to me back then, so I immediately broadcasted the good news to the 650b forum! I guess I used the wrong term "certified" (to guarantee as meeting a standard), it was "sanctioned" (official permission or approval).
    Ibis has certified 650b for the Mojo HD140 - Mtbr Forums

    As usual Ibis has been low key about the approval of 650b use.

  37. #37
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    and me for a mojo SL

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    me too for the HD !

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    Of course I'd be interested, but my 650b HD is running the old 135mm swingarm, so I don't know how that would fly.

    Side question: Who sells the offset links to lower the BB on a 650b Mojo HD?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestrel242 View Post
    Of course I'd be interested, but my 650b HD is running the old 135mm swingarm, so I don't know how that would fly.

    Side question: Who sells the offset links to lower the BB on a 650b Mojo HD?
    Every HD140 with 2.0 x 7.875" shock clears 2.3 x 650b easily, with no mods, no shock shims.

    I bought these offset bushings, one for each end. There are more expensive ti options if you search google. These did take almost 3 weeks to arrive from Poland. Let him know it's for an Ibis HD, 40mm wide rear, 22mm wide front, 8mm holes. He'll send the maximum offset for each end.
    Offset Shock bushings | Mounting Hardware | Mount kit | All frames | Proshox | eBay

    BTW, I have the 135mm HD swingarm, there's no difference except the perch for mounting the axle is deeper on each side than the smaller 135mm perches, no ride performance difference.

  41. #41
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    This is a silly thread...Mojo is dead!

    Don't you guys know the day Ibis announces Ripley 29 production they'll also unveil the 150mm travel Ripley 27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    This is a silly thread...Mojo is dead!

    Don't you guys know the day Ibis announces Ripley 29 production they'll also unveil the 150mm travel Ripley 27.
    It's not time to buy a brand new frame for most of us so ... me too for my Mojo SL

  43. #43
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    Add me to the list...

    italian mojo lover

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    I've tried to contact scot....I'll let you know his thought ASAP.

    I'm crossing my fingers.....

    Ernesto

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Every HD140 with 2.0 x 7.875" shock clears 2.3 x 650b easily, with no mods, no shock shims.

    I bought these offset bushings, one for each end. There are more expensive ti options if you search google. These did take almost 3 weeks to arrive from Poland. Let him know it's for an Ibis HD, 40mm wide rear, 22mm wide front, 8mm holes. He'll send the maximum offset for each end.
    Offset Shock bushings | Mounting Hardware | Mount kit | All frames | Proshox | eBay
    Excuse me, I should have clarified, I have an HD160, running a 170mm Lyric in front. The shock has been ghetto-shimmed with nylon washers successfully for a year now, but if I can bring the BB height back town a bit that's worth investigating. Aside from the shimming, is everything else you mentioned the same?

    BTW, I have the 135mm HD swingarm, there's no difference except the perch for mounting the axle is deeper on each side than the smaller 135mm perches, no ride performance difference.
    Is that right? I thought I heard that the tire and seattube clearance was slightly better.

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    As promised I've sent the email to Scot. Here his very quick answer:

    "Hi Ernesto,
    Red Barn's comments on that thread are right on, you'd be surprised at how much work is involved in doing one of these seemingly small projects.
    We read all the threads on our MTBR forum, so we know what everyone is asking for.
    What is said on the forums is extremely valuable information to us.
    We're working on lots of new projects right now, but we are not going to talk about them yet. All I can tell you is stay tuned.

    Scot
    "

    Now they know....I think we could update this 3d waiting for their new project.

    I personally think that could be a good chance updating the mojo (and not creating a new model) to 650b giving the possibility to all the old owners to update it too.

    We will see....anyway the Ibis guys are really great!!

    Ernesto

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    yes! hopefully by before christmas we can have good news?

  48. #48
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    the thing is-- for relativity little cost-- Ibis can be in the middle of the 650b revolution---- vs one of the guys on the side watching.. No reason not to do a new rear triangle.. They can then sell 650b native mojoHD's and capture a new market(those that want a new bike yet want to go 650B).. They can sell new rear triangles to existing customers, and they will have the rep as being in from the beggining.. I think those reasons are lending cred to intense right now as people are hot for 650b and they see intense making a effort to be part of the movement..

    Come on ibis--- For little work you can have a big impact..
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    Quote Originally Posted by slideways666 View Post
    the thing is-- for relativity little cost-- Ibis can be in the middle of the 650b revolution---- vs one of the guys on the side watching.. No reason not to do a new rear triangle.. They can then sell 650b native mojoHD's and capture a new market(those that want a new bike yet want to go 650B).. They can sell new rear triangles to existing customers, and they will have the rep as being in from the beggining.. I think those reasons are lending cred to intense right now as people are hot for 650b and they see intense making a effort to be part of the movement..

    Come on ibis--- For little work you can have a big impact..


    This is what I've tried to explain to scot!
    But I think they've already thought it!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by slideways666 View Post
    the thing is-- for relativity little cost-- Ibis can be in the middle of the 650b revolution---- vs one of the guys on the side watching.. No reason not to do a new rear triangle.. They can then sell 650b native mojoHD's and capture a new market(those that want a new bike yet want to go 650B).. They can sell new rear triangles to existing customers, and they will have the rep as being in from the beggining.. I think those reasons are lending cred to intense right now as people are hot for 650b and they see intense making a effort to be part of the movement..

    Come on ibis--- For little work you can have a big impact..
    Little cost?? You obviously have no idea how much time and money it would take to do a new rear for either bike. It's not worth doing. If they did this, it would take away from every new project they got going on. I am quite sure it's not going to happen as it should not happen. No other bike company I know redesigned a current bike to retrofit a new wheel size. There is no money in it, it takes away from current projects, and it's a phenomenal waste of time. A few hundred people wanting this vs tens of thousands waiting for new bikes with newer suspension technologies. What do you think they are going with and should go with?

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