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  1. #1
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    Chain suck issues

    Hi just woundering if anyone else who rides in muddy conditions has had this problem. Every time i go down into the granny ring the chain pulls up past the stainless plate a quick back pedel corrects this and all is well it also does it on the change up to middle ring. Looking down while riding all seems staight chain line etc and it's a new chain only 3 rides old so no stiff links there any ideas where to start would be great cheers Bat.

  2. #2
    flow where ever you go
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    Are the rings new also? Could they be damaged? How about the number of links you are using, I think going too tight or lose with the chain could contribute as well.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  3. #3
    Keep Riding !!
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    I also had chain suck with my Mojo, I had swapped parts & drivetrain etc from a previous bike (RM ETSX) and found that it was already worn.
    New Cassette, Chain & Chainrings solved the problem however also found that changing to granny early when not under load also helped. i.e. changing down before the climb etc.
    Making sure you start each ride with a clean drivetrain will also benefit
    Just Ride !

  4. #4
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    The chainsuck is not only a problem of drivetrain parts, but if the mud gets into the chain, it increase the friction between chain and chainring teeth and they tend to stick together, so chainsuck may occur. It has happened me too on Stumpy during early winter, when mud was mixed with the snow and stick to tires, then to chain, front mech etc.

  5. #5
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    Being a UK rider we get this all the time. You have to be super careful with your chain. Make sure you clean it really well after each ride and use plenty of oil! Just check which type of oil you use there are some dry oils which are fine for the dry (hence the name I guess) and visa versa wet oil for wet conditions. This makes a big difference. On long rides I carry some oil with me and if the chain is getting dirty I wash it off as best I can in a puddle or river and apply a little more oil!

    A quick thought, if you have been having chain suck I would bet the chain will break in the next few rides, make sure you have some spear links!!!
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  6. #6
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    I never once had chainsuck on my Mojo until this winter, riding in the mud. As others mentioned, even with a little mud (or leftover grime on your chain mixed with water flying up from your tires), chainsuck can appear out of nowhere.

    I definitely agree with using some good, wet, waterproof lube to start each muddy ride. Sounds goofy, but if you're on the trail getting desperately frustrated with constant CS, taking a couple mouthfulls of water and slowly spitting them on your chain as you spin the cranks can wash some gunk off and reset things for a while. This low-tech desperation move has actually worked for me on occasion.

    But if you just swapped in a new chain without changing rings---and you haven't experienced this problem before that while riding in the mud---worn chainrings are likely causing or at least exacerbating the problem. No doubt that chainsuck definitely sucks.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys

    Thanks for all the help here my lbs who fitted the chain is going to check it out today for me regards drive train the rear cogs have hads little time on the last chain around 6 rides so i don't think it is that and the crank set is new, As for lube ive used finish line cross country for the last 4 years during the winter with zero problems.
    So hopfully it is just an issue with the chain fitted Bat

  8. #8
    LJJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat on a bike
    Thanks for all the help here my lbs who fitted the chain is going to check it out today for me regards drive train the rear cogs have hads little time on the last chain around 6 rides so i don't think it is that and the crank set is new, As for lube ive used finish line cross country for the last 4 years during the winter with zero problems.
    So hopfully it is just an issue with the chain fitted Bat
    My Mojo is the worst bike I've ever had for chain-suck (before the Mojo 5 x Cannondale, 1x Scott). This is a big issue if you live in the UK. I've replaced the entire drivechain, and it's happening less - but it's still happening when it's v muddy, in the middle ring, and when going from the granny to the middle. No wonder they put the alloy guard on....... I wonder why it's such a problem with this bike ?

    LJJ

  9. #9
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    If nothing else works, here's one more idea that may (or may not) help...but it's kind of extreme if you're set in your ways. I just bought a bash guard, and will now remove my big chainring and therefore be able to shorten up my chain. I am doing this mostly because it gives me more clearance for getting over logs/rocks, and the shorter chain should reduce chain slap agains my front derailler guide. I rarely use my big ring anyway, except on paved roads, which I try hard to stay off of.

    But I'm also theorizing that the shorter chain could help reduce chainsuck. Less slack seems like it would help, but who knows. I'll probably install it next week, so I'll let you know if it works.

  10. #10
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    I've had the same issues with 07 XTR

    When riding in wet conditions, I find that the chainsuck starts after I've gotten the chain wet or muddy and it starts to dry. If I go through a creek crossing and it gets wet again, it stops until it drys. I carry oil also and lube it during the ride. That cures it. I live in SOCAL and this year has been a wet year. When the conditions are dry, there are no issues.
    [size=4]Don[/size]

  11. #11
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    Chain-suck splash guard

    This mud guard is ugly but chain suck is uglier, especially right when you put in that extra grunt up a slimy trail.

    In my experience the Mojo has been no different for getting chain-suck than any other bike - never when dry unless there is mismatched wear between chain and gears or a bent tooth, but almost every mud ride. Chain-suck gets so bad I have to wash my chain with water and even then it's not really cured until the chain gets washed well dried and oiled again.

    This down-tube fender cured the chain-suck. You could make one that is only low protecting the rings and chain. But the full length down-tube fender really keeps the bike and rider much cleaner when muddy.

    It’s made of a scissor cut-out thin plastic sheet I got at a plastic supply store. Attach with a water bottle screw and wrap the lower end back and up attach in front of the BB with sticky-back Velcro so the plastic clears in front of the big ring, also attached higher on the down-tube with -back Velcro. Cut the guard shape wide to just barely clear inside the crank arms (this will require a little alignment and adjustment time.

    Note the extra length of fender that hangs below the chain-rings, that’s to shield the splash off the front wheel from getting to the chain behind the ring – without this extra length I still got chain-suck but after a longer period of riding than without the ring guard fender without the extra length below.

    This cures muddy trail chain-suck.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
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    Any more info on this issue? I just demoed a Mojo and had a number of chain suck "events". Each time I was downshifting from the middle to the small chainring and the chain would suck up and hang on the chainstay. It required a quick backpedal to free things up. It was totally dry and no one else in the group had any chainsuck issues.

  13. #13
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    worn teeth, chain too long or too short, bent ring.... ?

    just something to cured back to normal which is no chainsuck except maybe an occasional when muddy.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  14. #14
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    Make sure you have the proper chainline setup per the manual. Depending on manufacturer of crankset it's easy to have spacers in the wrong order or on the wrong side.
    **** censorship

  15. #15
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    Well in the end.

    Well in the end i put on a new cassette as well, the chain was fine and with only 2 rides on it and really bad issues with chian suck i replaced the cassette ive only done 3 rides on it since then (torn ligements in my back ) but much inproved only happened a couple of times during these and only on middle to granny ring changes so i can live with this as stated before a quick back peddle and all is good. Still seems a shame to have to put up with these issues with all the time and effort put in to suspension and frame building you might have thought this sort of thing would'nt happen anymore, never mind as my mum used to say these things are sent to try us bat.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat on a bike
    Still seems a shame to have to put up with these issues with all the time and effort put in to suspension and frame building you might have thought this sort of thing wouldn't happen anymore, never mind as my mum used to say these things are sent to try us bat.
    I am surprised that you are still getting the chain suck. It is absolutely nothing to do with the design of the bike, as someone else said they/I have had it with all bikes I have owned at some point. I can say that I am riding in some of the worst conditions I have ridden in at the moment and I am having no problems even when the chain is caked in UK mud!

    I did however learn something the other day, with my Trek, not Mojo but its all relevant. My friend is riding my Trek at the moment and it started to have some chainsuck/ghost shifting etc, I found one of the links was a pretty buggered so I stuck a new chain on it. Because its so muddy at the moment it thought I would stick a cheap chain on (still SRAM), going on the theory it would need a new one come summer anyway. I then had major ghost shifting and skipping on the cassette. After 3 trips back to the shop to try and sort it out they said my rear deraulier was bent and I needed a new one! At £150 for an XO this was not good news. Sense prevailed and I went to another bike shop to get their opinion, he said it looked fine and it was simply the chain was too fat!

    I did not realise that chains came in different thickness, so I put a top of the line SRAM on and zero issues!! So moral of the story is make sure the chain is the going to work with you cassette and cranks!
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  17. #17
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    Good point.

    All good points all my drive train is sram and both my chain and cassette are top end models. To be fair this is my first bike that has had this issue in 14 years of riding so i can't complain really my buddys mojo has had chain suck issues what so ever and we both ride the same conditions my only other thing to try is crank/ chain line but while by back is bad im not to botherd bat.

  18. #18
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    I'm no xpert just another victim

    he said it looked fine and it was simply the chain was too fat!
    Sometimes fat is not good on a mountain bike !
    Sorry IMHO, chain suck: 1-bad Chainline mixed with, worn/bent:chain,chain rings (also hooking teeth often the cause along with possibly a conglomerate of the others mentioned),FR Dérailleur bent or wrong height adjust. Interfacing diff chain width mismatch with space between and widths of the chainrings and even issue with chain ring bolts with a non-oem chainrings. Also, issues with various chain - bent rollers, pins bent inner/outer plates. Wipperman connex chains (great chains but the widths i wonder bout but note below I'm using one now) links or somtimes sram links have issues with some rings if it always happens at connector. There's more but you get the idea.
    Before I ordered my Moj I tested on the trail over several days 2 different brand new Moj builds in different sizes with 2008 xt group and both bikes had issues in perfect weather (not broken in good ? could be? Could it be new angle via shadow rear der? Or, could it be just good ole chainline.) I didn't have time to do anything other than report the issues as I was too busy playing.
    Somewhere bless his heart, Sheldon had a good article on chainsuck, but I can't find it now.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ch.html
    (Here's my naught+naught=double naught method of detection) > with 2 people and some telepathy...measureing in slow-mo under load via brake the down/upshift you can "almost" always figure out the issue and predict when it will be more constant in mud. Do it on a trainer (hard to put enough pressure with brake loaded with arm) and have partner shift under heavy load in slow mo [note sometimes sucks will only occure at speed !] as you watch with vernier mm calipers and a chainline measuring tool in hand and some mojo beads, note: I borrow my mechanics ! ) Oh yea, having a voo-doo doll helps also. I don't know for sure but I would think cycling through travel on long travel bikes could affect chainline and thus chainsuck with flexing of the frame at pivots or rear triangle, but that's just a guess.
    Oh yea, as long as I'm rambling, always wet lubes and clean after every ride. Love the finish line dry teflon or prolink to CLEAN and then boshield to help the wet cross country finish line penetrate and wipe off the outer cause it's the rollers and inner links.... Also, rag lube with me on long rides and never clean oem lube off a new chain, that stuff is better than any aftermarket as far as I know.
    Hope the back gets better soon.
    If you've done all the stuff you said with all oem and new drivetrain, I've heard rumours of some xtr cranks that were slightly out of spec but I can't really say, but try your buddies crank, if you both have the exact same chainline.
    Also, try his bike could it be just your shifting, it should not be inspite of what some will say.
    I can almost always get lightning quick downshifts Under L o a d when everything is set up and aligned correctly-> (Note: with and old nickel coated connex 908 chain and sram cassette and and old xtr m960 (even a little hooking on the middle ring) crankset, on a bike that I used to have chainsuck issues btw till I changed out middle ring, played with chainline and front der alignment, tension and lower stop screw [may have tension correct on cable to prevent slow downshift but inner stop had to be set in tandem to get the chain to drop off just right...])
    This all seems like a big bunch of work. Beats the hell out of one or 2 bad chainsucks on carbon chainstays.
    http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/
    Last edited by ghawk; 03-25-2008 at 05:42 AM.

  19. #19
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    I get this on my Mojo every time I go out on a muddy ride too. The whole chainset(cranks,rings chain,cassette and both front and rear mechs) have only done about 8-9 rides. The wheels 3 rides. These came off my old frame(2004 spesh enduro) where I rarely had any chainsuck issues either with the current transmission set up or the old one before it.
    Before buying my Mojo frame I demoed one from Stif(UK) for a total of 4 days. This had the same chainsuck issue in mud. I thought it was probably down to worn components or a worn freewheel on this bike since it was a demo bike. But now mine does the same with new components. I think it must be the frame design. Out of interest what size frame does everyone have and do you get the chainsuck or not? I have a medium and the demo bike was a medium. The demo had SRAM XO rear mech,xtr front mech, truvativ cranks and hope pro11 hubs. Mine has xtr front and rear mechs, XT canks and DTSwiss 240 hubs therefore it is not one brand of components causing the suck.
    Both bikes only do it when changing from middle to granny ring.

  20. #20
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    The demo I had was a medium with XT cranks and XT Deraileurs. Completely dry conditions. I really love this bike, but this could be a deal breaker.

  21. #21
    Geritol Power
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    I don't get it?

    How can a bike/frame cause chain suck? The only time I ever experience chain suck is from a dirty free hub that needs to be cleaned and lubed or perhaps I've had long grass/weeds bound up around the cassett once or twice.

    Have I just lived a sheltered life or what?

  22. #22
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    A solution!

    As soon as I switched from an xt shadow to an xtr shadow I started having horrible chain suck issues. As soon as the chain got some muck on it it would suck every 30 seconds or so. The xtr derailer has a relatively low spring tension, but it looks too cool to take off.

    I started with just one zip tie and it has worked miracles. On the last ride I didn't clean or add any more lube to my chain. After a very wet and muddy decent I climbed 300 vertical feet before my first and only chain suck issue of the ride. It happened at one of the worst possible times, so I decided a couple more zip ties were in order. I haven't tried this set up yet, but I'm 99% sure that I wont get any chain suck on the next muddy ride.

    I know there are some issues with chain suck guards, but maybe ibis could make a little stainless steal sticky in just the right shape for us.

    Photobucket


    I got this idea from a mountain bike action a while ago. If you have chronic chain suck in muddy conditions give this a try.

  23. #23
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    One ring too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by getbusyliving
    If nothing else works, here's one more idea that may (or may not) help...but it's kind of extreme if you're set in your ways. I just bought a bash guard, and will now remove my big chainring and therefore be able to shorten up my chain. I am doing this mostly because it gives me more clearance for getting over logs/rocks, and the shorter chain should reduce chain slap agains my front derailler guide. I rarely use my big ring anyway, except on paved roads, which I try hard to stay off of.

    But I'm also theorizing that the shorter chain could help reduce chainsuck. Less slack seems like it would help, but who knows. I'll probably install it next week, so I'll let you know if it works.
    I know this isn't a solution for everyone, but just to follow up on my earlier post, shortening up my chain (after installing a bash guard and removing my big ring) did seem to help with my chain suck problems. I haven't had one suck over the past 20 or so hours of riding plenty techy trails. Also reduced chain slap significantly, and the whole drive train runs much more smoothly, even while pedaling over the rocky-choppy stuff. And I haven't missed my big ring one bit.

  24. #24
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    As soon as I switched from an xt shadow to an xtr shadow I started having horrible chain suck issues. As soon as the chain got some muck on it it would suck every 30 seconds or so. The xtr derailer has a relatively low spring tension, but it looks too cool to take off.
    I'd ditch it. Sounds like lack of chain tension added to the some sort of tighter angle on the chain as the shadows cages sit more inward to protect em ? That seems strange cause they have to be aligned over the cogs just like a normal der. (---chain dis-engadges best I think at only a slight right angle off vertical looking down chainline back to front so that when the shift completes to granny the chain is at vertical, but lots of times your middle to granny shifts are once you are allready in your lowest gear - highest cog in back) like I said, seems like maybe shadows have maybe just not as much tension (and more under load on the chainring during downshifts) added to a slight angle change with the more inward cage ?
    This may not be a solution for the shadows but on the old drivetrain stated earlier, I have dropped off my smallest cog in back and added a spacer inside that effectively reduces chain angle by a few millimeters to make it a 8 speed and just tension out the last shift. This means when I am in the largest cog in back and big ring in front there is less wear from as steep a cross over. As said before even with worn drivetrain and on the 34 in back and middle ring shifting to granny downshifts are less angled and lightning under load.
    http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/
    Last edited by ghawk; 03-25-2008 at 05:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    I think you must have lived a sheltered life!!

    I've been riding for 11 years and had countless number of bikes/frames over the years with very little chainsuck problems. I agree that dirt is the key ingredient but I am sure there is something with the frame that exaggarates this. How can the same components work fine(and on the same route/ride) in the same conditions on one frame and then get chainsuck after changing frames.Too much of a coincidence that the demo bike had the same issue.

    All components are virtually new including the rear hub/freewheel.

    The only component that has changed is the frame!!!!

    I'm not complaining about this as it isn't really a problem merely commenting since others have this same issue. I'mgoing to experiment and alter the chainline slightly by moving the bottom bracket bearings on the drive side further out and see if this cures it.

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