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  1. #1
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    Chain suck issues

    Hi just woundering if anyone else who rides in muddy conditions has had this problem. Every time i go down into the granny ring the chain pulls up past the stainless plate a quick back pedel corrects this and all is well it also does it on the change up to middle ring. Looking down while riding all seems staight chain line etc and it's a new chain only 3 rides old so no stiff links there any ideas where to start would be great cheers Bat.

  2. #2
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    Are the rings new also? Could they be damaged? How about the number of links you are using, I think going too tight or lose with the chain could contribute as well.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  3. #3
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    I also had chain suck with my Mojo, I had swapped parts & drivetrain etc from a previous bike (RM ETSX) and found that it was already worn.
    New Cassette, Chain & Chainrings solved the problem however also found that changing to granny early when not under load also helped. i.e. changing down before the climb etc.
    Making sure you start each ride with a clean drivetrain will also benefit
    Just Ride !

  4. #4
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    The chainsuck is not only a problem of drivetrain parts, but if the mud gets into the chain, it increase the friction between chain and chainring teeth and they tend to stick together, so chainsuck may occur. It has happened me too on Stumpy during early winter, when mud was mixed with the snow and stick to tires, then to chain, front mech etc.

  5. #5
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    Being a UK rider we get this all the time. You have to be super careful with your chain. Make sure you clean it really well after each ride and use plenty of oil! Just check which type of oil you use there are some dry oils which are fine for the dry (hence the name I guess) and visa versa wet oil for wet conditions. This makes a big difference. On long rides I carry some oil with me and if the chain is getting dirty I wash it off as best I can in a puddle or river and apply a little more oil!

    A quick thought, if you have been having chain suck I would bet the chain will break in the next few rides, make sure you have some spear links!!!
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  6. #6
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    I never once had chainsuck on my Mojo until this winter, riding in the mud. As others mentioned, even with a little mud (or leftover grime on your chain mixed with water flying up from your tires), chainsuck can appear out of nowhere.

    I definitely agree with using some good, wet, waterproof lube to start each muddy ride. Sounds goofy, but if you're on the trail getting desperately frustrated with constant CS, taking a couple mouthfulls of water and slowly spitting them on your chain as you spin the cranks can wash some gunk off and reset things for a while. This low-tech desperation move has actually worked for me on occasion.

    But if you just swapped in a new chain without changing rings---and you haven't experienced this problem before that while riding in the mud---worn chainrings are likely causing or at least exacerbating the problem. No doubt that chainsuck definitely sucks.

  7. #7
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    Thanks guys

    Thanks for all the help here my lbs who fitted the chain is going to check it out today for me regards drive train the rear cogs have hads little time on the last chain around 6 rides so i don't think it is that and the crank set is new, As for lube ive used finish line cross country for the last 4 years during the winter with zero problems.
    So hopfully it is just an issue with the chain fitted Bat

  8. #8
    LJJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat on a bike
    Thanks for all the help here my lbs who fitted the chain is going to check it out today for me regards drive train the rear cogs have hads little time on the last chain around 6 rides so i don't think it is that and the crank set is new, As for lube ive used finish line cross country for the last 4 years during the winter with zero problems.
    So hopfully it is just an issue with the chain fitted Bat
    My Mojo is the worst bike I've ever had for chain-suck (before the Mojo 5 x Cannondale, 1x Scott). This is a big issue if you live in the UK. I've replaced the entire drivechain, and it's happening less - but it's still happening when it's v muddy, in the middle ring, and when going from the granny to the middle. No wonder they put the alloy guard on....... I wonder why it's such a problem with this bike ?

    LJJ

  9. #9
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    If nothing else works, here's one more idea that may (or may not) help...but it's kind of extreme if you're set in your ways. I just bought a bash guard, and will now remove my big chainring and therefore be able to shorten up my chain. I am doing this mostly because it gives me more clearance for getting over logs/rocks, and the shorter chain should reduce chain slap agains my front derailler guide. I rarely use my big ring anyway, except on paved roads, which I try hard to stay off of.

    But I'm also theorizing that the shorter chain could help reduce chainsuck. Less slack seems like it would help, but who knows. I'll probably install it next week, so I'll let you know if it works.

  10. #10
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    I've had the same issues with 07 XTR

    When riding in wet conditions, I find that the chainsuck starts after I've gotten the chain wet or muddy and it starts to dry. If I go through a creek crossing and it gets wet again, it stops until it drys. I carry oil also and lube it during the ride. That cures it. I live in SOCAL and this year has been a wet year. When the conditions are dry, there are no issues.
    Don

  11. #11
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    Chain-suck splash guard

    This mud guard is ugly but chain suck is uglier, especially right when you put in that extra grunt up a slimy trail.

    In my experience the Mojo has been no different for getting chain-suck than any other bike - never when dry unless there is mismatched wear between chain and gears or a bent tooth, but almost every mud ride. Chain-suck gets so bad I have to wash my chain with water and even then it's not really cured until the chain gets washed well dried and oiled again.

    This down-tube fender cured the chain-suck. You could make one that is only low protecting the rings and chain. But the full length down-tube fender really keeps the bike and rider much cleaner when muddy.

    It’s made of a scissor cut-out thin plastic sheet I got at a plastic supply store. Attach with a water bottle screw and wrap the lower end back and up attach in front of the BB with sticky-back Velcro so the plastic clears in front of the big ring, also attached higher on the down-tube with -back Velcro. Cut the guard shape wide to just barely clear inside the crank arms (this will require a little alignment and adjustment time.

    Note the extra length of fender that hangs below the chain-rings, that’s to shield the splash off the front wheel from getting to the chain behind the ring – without this extra length I still got chain-suck but after a longer period of riding than without the ring guard fender without the extra length below.

    This cures muddy trail chain-suck.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
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    Any more info on this issue? I just demoed a Mojo and had a number of chain suck "events". Each time I was downshifting from the middle to the small chainring and the chain would suck up and hang on the chainstay. It required a quick backpedal to free things up. It was totally dry and no one else in the group had any chainsuck issues.

  13. #13
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    worn teeth, chain too long or too short, bent ring.... ?

    just something to cured back to normal which is no chainsuck except maybe an occasional when muddy.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  14. #14
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    Make sure you have the proper chainline setup per the manual. Depending on manufacturer of crankset it's easy to have spacers in the wrong order or on the wrong side.
    **** censorship

  15. #15
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    Well in the end.

    Well in the end i put on a new cassette as well, the chain was fine and with only 2 rides on it and really bad issues with chian suck i replaced the cassette ive only done 3 rides on it since then (torn ligements in my back ) but much inproved only happened a couple of times during these and only on middle to granny ring changes so i can live with this as stated before a quick back peddle and all is good. Still seems a shame to have to put up with these issues with all the time and effort put in to suspension and frame building you might have thought this sort of thing would'nt happen anymore, never mind as my mum used to say these things are sent to try us bat.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat on a bike
    Still seems a shame to have to put up with these issues with all the time and effort put in to suspension and frame building you might have thought this sort of thing wouldn't happen anymore, never mind as my mum used to say these things are sent to try us bat.
    I am surprised that you are still getting the chain suck. It is absolutely nothing to do with the design of the bike, as someone else said they/I have had it with all bikes I have owned at some point. I can say that I am riding in some of the worst conditions I have ridden in at the moment and I am having no problems even when the chain is caked in UK mud!

    I did however learn something the other day, with my Trek, not Mojo but its all relevant. My friend is riding my Trek at the moment and it started to have some chainsuck/ghost shifting etc, I found one of the links was a pretty buggered so I stuck a new chain on it. Because its so muddy at the moment it thought I would stick a cheap chain on (still SRAM), going on the theory it would need a new one come summer anyway. I then had major ghost shifting and skipping on the cassette. After 3 trips back to the shop to try and sort it out they said my rear deraulier was bent and I needed a new one! At £150 for an XO this was not good news. Sense prevailed and I went to another bike shop to get their opinion, he said it looked fine and it was simply the chain was too fat!

    I did not realise that chains came in different thickness, so I put a top of the line SRAM on and zero issues!! So moral of the story is make sure the chain is the going to work with you cassette and cranks!
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  17. #17
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    Good point.

    All good points all my drive train is sram and both my chain and cassette are top end models. To be fair this is my first bike that has had this issue in 14 years of riding so i can't complain really my buddys mojo has had chain suck issues what so ever and we both ride the same conditions my only other thing to try is crank/ chain line but while by back is bad im not to botherd bat.

  18. #18
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    I'm no xpert just another victim

    he said it looked fine and it was simply the chain was too fat!
    Sometimes fat is not good on a mountain bike !
    Sorry IMHO, chain suck: 1-bad Chainline mixed with, worn/bent:chain,chain rings (also hooking teeth often the cause along with possibly a conglomerate of the others mentioned),FR Dérailleur bent or wrong height adjust. Interfacing diff chain width mismatch with space between and widths of the chainrings and even issue with chain ring bolts with a non-oem chainrings. Also, issues with various chain - bent rollers, pins bent inner/outer plates. Wipperman connex chains (great chains but the widths i wonder bout but note below I'm using one now) links or somtimes sram links have issues with some rings if it always happens at connector. There's more but you get the idea.
    Before I ordered my Moj I tested on the trail over several days 2 different brand new Moj builds in different sizes with 2008 xt group and both bikes had issues in perfect weather (not broken in good ? could be? Could it be new angle via shadow rear der? Or, could it be just good ole chainline.) I didn't have time to do anything other than report the issues as I was too busy playing.
    Somewhere bless his heart, Sheldon had a good article on chainsuck, but I can't find it now.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ch.html
    (Here's my naught+naught=double naught method of detection) > with 2 people and some telepathy...measureing in slow-mo under load via brake the down/upshift you can "almost" always figure out the issue and predict when it will be more constant in mud. Do it on a trainer (hard to put enough pressure with brake loaded with arm) and have partner shift under heavy load in slow mo [note sometimes sucks will only occure at speed !] as you watch with vernier mm calipers and a chainline measuring tool in hand and some mojo beads, note: I borrow my mechanics ! ) Oh yea, having a voo-doo doll helps also. I don't know for sure but I would think cycling through travel on long travel bikes could affect chainline and thus chainsuck with flexing of the frame at pivots or rear triangle, but that's just a guess.
    Oh yea, as long as I'm rambling, always wet lubes and clean after every ride. Love the finish line dry teflon or prolink to CLEAN and then boshield to help the wet cross country finish line penetrate and wipe off the outer cause it's the rollers and inner links.... Also, rag lube with me on long rides and never clean oem lube off a new chain, that stuff is better than any aftermarket as far as I know.
    Hope the back gets better soon.
    If you've done all the stuff you said with all oem and new drivetrain, I've heard rumours of some xtr cranks that were slightly out of spec but I can't really say, but try your buddies crank, if you both have the exact same chainline.
    Also, try his bike could it be just your shifting, it should not be inspite of what some will say.
    I can almost always get lightning quick downshifts Under L o a d when everything is set up and aligned correctly-> (Note: with and old nickel coated connex 908 chain and sram cassette and and old xtr m960 (even a little hooking on the middle ring) crankset, on a bike that I used to have chainsuck issues btw till I changed out middle ring, played with chainline and front der alignment, tension and lower stop screw [may have tension correct on cable to prevent slow downshift but inner stop had to be set in tandem to get the chain to drop off just right...])
    This all seems like a big bunch of work. Beats the hell out of one or 2 bad chainsucks on carbon chainstays.
    http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/
    Last edited by ghawk; 03-25-2008 at 05:42 AM.

  19. #19
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    I get this on my Mojo every time I go out on a muddy ride too. The whole chainset(cranks,rings chain,cassette and both front and rear mechs) have only done about 8-9 rides. The wheels 3 rides. These came off my old frame(2004 spesh enduro) where I rarely had any chainsuck issues either with the current transmission set up or the old one before it.
    Before buying my Mojo frame I demoed one from Stif(UK) for a total of 4 days. This had the same chainsuck issue in mud. I thought it was probably down to worn components or a worn freewheel on this bike since it was a demo bike. But now mine does the same with new components. I think it must be the frame design. Out of interest what size frame does everyone have and do you get the chainsuck or not? I have a medium and the demo bike was a medium. The demo had SRAM XO rear mech,xtr front mech, truvativ cranks and hope pro11 hubs. Mine has xtr front and rear mechs, XT canks and DTSwiss 240 hubs therefore it is not one brand of components causing the suck.
    Both bikes only do it when changing from middle to granny ring.

  20. #20
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    The demo I had was a medium with XT cranks and XT Deraileurs. Completely dry conditions. I really love this bike, but this could be a deal breaker.

  21. #21
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    I don't get it?

    How can a bike/frame cause chain suck? The only time I ever experience chain suck is from a dirty free hub that needs to be cleaned and lubed or perhaps I've had long grass/weeds bound up around the cassett once or twice.

    Have I just lived a sheltered life or what?

  22. #22
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    A solution!

    As soon as I switched from an xt shadow to an xtr shadow I started having horrible chain suck issues. As soon as the chain got some muck on it it would suck every 30 seconds or so. The xtr derailer has a relatively low spring tension, but it looks too cool to take off.

    I started with just one zip tie and it has worked miracles. On the last ride I didn't clean or add any more lube to my chain. After a very wet and muddy decent I climbed 300 vertical feet before my first and only chain suck issue of the ride. It happened at one of the worst possible times, so I decided a couple more zip ties were in order. I haven't tried this set up yet, but I'm 99% sure that I wont get any chain suck on the next muddy ride.

    I know there are some issues with chain suck guards, but maybe ibis could make a little stainless steal sticky in just the right shape for us.

    <a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/silkwormriver/?action=view&current=IMG_0043.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/silkwormriver/IMG_0043.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


    I got this idea from a mountain bike action a while ago. If you have chronic chain suck in muddy conditions give this a try.

  23. #23
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    One ring too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by getbusyliving
    If nothing else works, here's one more idea that may (or may not) help...but it's kind of extreme if you're set in your ways. I just bought a bash guard, and will now remove my big chainring and therefore be able to shorten up my chain. I am doing this mostly because it gives me more clearance for getting over logs/rocks, and the shorter chain should reduce chain slap agains my front derailler guide. I rarely use my big ring anyway, except on paved roads, which I try hard to stay off of.

    But I'm also theorizing that the shorter chain could help reduce chainsuck. Less slack seems like it would help, but who knows. I'll probably install it next week, so I'll let you know if it works.
    I know this isn't a solution for everyone, but just to follow up on my earlier post, shortening up my chain (after installing a bash guard and removing my big ring) did seem to help with my chain suck problems. I haven't had one suck over the past 20 or so hours of riding plenty techy trails. Also reduced chain slap significantly, and the whole drive train runs much more smoothly, even while pedaling over the rocky-choppy stuff. And I haven't missed my big ring one bit.

  24. #24
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    As soon as I switched from an xt shadow to an xtr shadow I started having horrible chain suck issues. As soon as the chain got some muck on it it would suck every 30 seconds or so. The xtr derailer has a relatively low spring tension, but it looks too cool to take off.
    I'd ditch it. Sounds like lack of chain tension added to the some sort of tighter angle on the chain as the shadows cages sit more inward to protect em ? That seems strange cause they have to be aligned over the cogs just like a normal der. (---chain dis-engadges best I think at only a slight right angle off vertical looking down chainline back to front so that when the shift completes to granny the chain is at vertical, but lots of times your middle to granny shifts are once you are allready in your lowest gear - highest cog in back) like I said, seems like maybe shadows have maybe just not as much tension (and more under load on the chainring during downshifts) added to a slight angle change with the more inward cage ?
    This may not be a solution for the shadows but on the old drivetrain stated earlier, I have dropped off my smallest cog in back and added a spacer inside that effectively reduces chain angle by a few millimeters to make it a 8 speed and just tension out the last shift. This means when I am in the largest cog in back and big ring in front there is less wear from as steep a cross over. As said before even with worn drivetrain and on the 34 in back and middle ring shifting to granny downshifts are less angled and lightning under load.
    http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/
    Last edited by ghawk; 03-25-2008 at 05:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    I think you must have lived a sheltered life!!

    I've been riding for 11 years and had countless number of bikes/frames over the years with very little chainsuck problems. I agree that dirt is the key ingredient but I am sure there is something with the frame that exaggarates this. How can the same components work fine(and on the same route/ride) in the same conditions on one frame and then get chainsuck after changing frames.Too much of a coincidence that the demo bike had the same issue.

    All components are virtually new including the rear hub/freewheel.

    The only component that has changed is the frame!!!!

    I'm not complaining about this as it isn't really a problem merely commenting since others have this same issue. I'mgoing to experiment and alter the chainline slightly by moving the bottom bracket bearings on the drive side further out and see if this cures it.

  26. #26
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    Chain suck ... Sucks

    I've had more chain suck with this bike then any I've owned. Dry, Wet, Muddy, what ever the condition. It always occures on the down shift to the small ring in rough conditions. Could it be that during the compression the chain gets to slack? It seems to be intermittent so getting to the root of the problem is frustrating. On a nother topic, I just put on some new SRAM cables, the full jacket, or what ever they are called. The ones with the red covers. At any rate I now have ghost shifting. Any one have the lengths that the casings should be or where to look first. I thing the casing by the derailer is to long? Any thoughts?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMT42
    I've had more chain suck with this bike then any I've owned. Dry, Wet, Muddy, what ever the condition. It always occures on the down shift to the small ring in rough conditions. Could it be that during the compression the chain gets to slack? It seems to be intermittent so getting to the root of the problem is frustrating. On a nother topic, I just put on some new SRAM cables, the full jacket, or what ever they are called. The ones with the red covers. At any rate I now have ghost shifting. Any one have the lengths that the casings should be or where to look first. I thing the casing by the derailer is to long? Any thoughts?

    Hmmm, you might be on to something on the chain slack thing. Looks more like I am going to pass on the Mojo.

    I have had some other bikes in the past with chain issues and I am not going there with a 2k+ frame price. Maybe Hans will jump in on this topic.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja
    Hmmm, you might be on to something on the chain slack thing. Looks more like I am going to pass on the Mojo.

    I have had some other bikes in the past with chain issues and I am not going there with a 2k+ frame price. Maybe Hans will jump in on this topic.

    I have to admit that I have only had the bike a month or so. I am running 08XT throughout, i have been for maybe 10 rides, from 1 to 4 hours in the worst conditions the UK can throw at a bike. On some rides i have had to stop because the clay mud has been an inch thick on my tyre!! I am yet to have a single chain suck!!

    I can think of many reasons for chain suck, and I can see how a cross chain might cause chain suck, but I can not see how a frame can cause it! I have also had it on other bikes, but only when the chain has had a bad link or was really dirty!

    Its a shame because you are missing out on the best bike I have ridden!
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  29. #29
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    Is this just with XTR or is it SRAM too?

  30. #30
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    I think it is a chain tension issue too. Happens at times (rarely) on up and down shifts. Running XTR FD and XT Shadow RD. It seems to be when chain bounce occurs. I cannot be certain, but heavy braking in the bumps seems to reduce the number of events - as said it is not common and certainly no more likely than on any other bike I have owned - my KHS almost wore the chainstay away to the depth of the tubing. Mud on the chain would increase bounce due to extra weight I would guess. Anyone tried a chain tensioner?? Maybe the frame allows more aggressive riding than on your previous steeds?

  31. #31
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    Tradeoff?

    If you are running relatively new rings, chain and cassette (and you're sure the BB spacers were installed correctly), then I agree it is probably the combination of mud and light chain tension causing the problem. As I posted above (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...49855#poststop) I was able to essentially cure my CS problem by installing a bash guard (allowing me to lose my big ring and remove some chain links---increasing chain tension).

    The dilemma is, if you want a bike with 5.5" of travel and a big chain ring (regardless of it being the Mojo or some other 5.5" FS bike), you are almost certainly going to have to run a relatively long chain to accommodate all that travel. And running a longer chain in the mud (especially in granny gear) increases your chances of chain suck.

    So IMO it is not a problem with the Mojo at all...it is a tradeoff you make to get increased rear suspension travel.

    I only ever experienced CS when on very muddy rides, so I think you should only be concerned about this if you ride in a the mud A LOT (and you're not willing to use a bash guard or some chain tensioning/retention solution). And in that case, you may need to consider a shorter-travel bike.

  32. #32
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    What you said make sense about a longer chain . My previous bike(that all the components came off) was a 2004 Specialized Enduro with 130mm rear travel. Not much less than the Mojo. Upon fitting all the components I had to lengthen the chain by about 5 links, quite a lot for ecsenially the equivalent size frame as my enduro. Therefore the mojo's rear chainstay must be a fair bit longer which could then cause more chain slap withe the longer chain.

    I agree it isn't much of an issue as a slight back pedal cures the problem and the Mojo is still a great bike that I would not swap for anything else(apart from a SL maybe )

    Can Hans, Scot or Tom comment on this please

  33. #33
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    Here's another one from the fisher website.
    I still need to find one for visuals on front der adjustment and correct alignment.
    A. Chain suck is very elusive and in some cases impossible to solve. However, it can be controlled and minimized. Before we can solve chain suck we must first identify what type(s) of chain suck you're having. Outlined below are some of the more common causes of chain suck:

    Shifting the ft. derailleur under heavy loads or while out of the saddle. What happens here is the chain will wedge itself on to the two rings so tightly that it won't release from either chain ring. The only way I know to solve this type of chain suck is by educating the rider, and explain how and why it's happening. Once you know how or why it happens you can take steps to adjust your riding style to avoid chain suck.
    Dirty or worn out chains, chain rings or derailleurs. Maintenance and replacing any suspect component.
    Inadvertent chain slap; this is where the lower horizontal section of chain will bounce up and down hitting the chain stay. If the chain slides off the chain stay to the outside it can be caught up by the chain rings and get sucked up between the chain stay and the chain rings. The best solution I've found for this type of chain suck is a simple zip tie. Place the zip tie on the chain stay just behind the middle and large chain rings. The zip tie knuckle should be positioned under and to the out side of the chain stay. The zip tie acts as an anti-chain suck device keeping the chain out of the space between the chain rings and chain stay.
    Bent or warped chain rings, a chain ring can get bent for any number of reasons. Inspect them on a regular basis, and replace them when necessary.
    Chain drop or over shifting due to ft. derailleur adjustment and or maintenance. Chain drop isn't really chain suck but it can be seen as chain suck because the end result is the same, the chain gets picked up and jambs between the stay and the crank set.
    Chain drop or over shifting due to frame alignment. Not really chain suck but the end result is the same. Your retailer can measure and evaluate the frame alignment and the solution would be to either align the frame or have it replaced. A shorter bottom bracket may help but it not the best solution for the long term.
    Mixed chain rings; e.g. two different brands of chain rings. Because each manufactures have their own designs for shifting gates even a small amount of tooth phase difference can and will cause shifting difficulties and chain suck. Solution; match the chain rings.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Still, the best answers I've found were in the other url I put and I can't imagine not being able to cure it with some of the stuff I have allready described. But, I guess if you try all that stuff, I really don't know anymore except Der tension and alignment with chainline setup right and a shop that can do good frame alignment measurements. I would guess that a little pivot wear where they are on Moj could mess up alignment pretty quick again I guess allot. But have never had chain suck I could not cure. (I guess I just jinxed the hell out of that !)
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=43
    Edit: Just talked to my mechanic and he is great at just about everything after 20 years doing this stuff including frame building. He said he has seen more chain suck with the outboard bearings on long travel bikes (recently 2 brand new rigs with new xt and another with xtr.) with the der tension really high in back and as the chain is thrown on a slightly (mms) longer range with the outboard bearings and the chain pops back and gets snagged by a chainring bolt because it's poping back from the stop screw with mucho force. (I forgot to ask what he did to fix it..duh but I found it seems best to address all these factors then still have to fine tune front der angle slightly -> slight bend in front der plate with pliers and tune the angle at the same time as you tune set screw and tension. ) With a couple of hours of artistic tuning, when the downshifts is like lightning under load, you know you are pretty close.
    Anyone had better luck with FSA K-Force light Crankset ? I'm about to get one from a warranty replacement. The K-Force I had did really well.
    Edit: Some people seem to be jumping to conclusions that it must be the Ibis frame, I have a hard time with that one. Such as, "~Not enough room between the chainstay and the crank.~" (I guess this is supposed to mean improper chainline setup ?) There are too many REAL variables in everyones build to reach that conclusion unless the front and rear triangles came out of the molds wrong. To do a TRUE alignment check you have to take the frame to a professional or send it off. But, these molds are exact to an extreme compaired to alum, ti and cro-mo frames.
    I think it would be best for everyone having these problems to find a professional that knows how to set up the gearing properly including front der alignment and crank lateral spacing for chainline with the proper tools previously noted. Clearance is defined by chainline being setup properly, if it doesn't look like there is enough crank clearance and you think that completely defines the problem, just hit it with a big mallet ....u might as well....cause you'll never get it right. Once the chain has sucked then it is pretty important, but...
    Last edited by ghawk; 04-01-2008 at 05:19 AM.

  34. #34
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    Sram/Shimano

    Well im running near on full sram list is full xo rear mech,shifters, sram 991 cass and matching chain i think numbers are right and a xtr front mech. Also truvative noir 3.3 cranks might swap out to xtr cranks soon, as reported i had pretty bad suck with this until a new cass and chain was fitted now reduced by about 90% and only noticed it happening on down shifts middle to granny. So i guess it is not only shimano but both in some cases my riding buddy has the same set up as me just the old stylo carbon cranks with no problems (barstool) just lucky in his case. Anyhoo ive still got chain line and or swap cranks to look at before the weather gets good over her in the uk Bat.

  35. #35
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    Hi Ghawk

    Thanks for the info.

    This option sounds the most likely to me.

    Inadvertent chain slap; this is where the lower horizontal section of chain will bounce up and down hitting the chain stay. If the chain slides off the chain stay to the outside it can be caught up by the chain rings and get sucked up between the chain stay and the chain rings. The best solution I've found for this type of chain suck is a simple zip tie. Place the zip tie on the chain stay just behind the middle and large chain rings. The zip tie knuckle should be positioned under and to the out side of the chain stay. The zip tie acts as an anti-chain suck device keeping the chain out of the space between the chain rings and chain stay.


    I'll give the cable tie ago and report back. If it cures the 'problem' then I would say it is to do with the shape of the chainstay combined with mud/grit on the chain. I noticed the chainstays on my enduro frame curve inwards more than the mojo does around the chainrings.

  36. #36
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    I notice some people seem to think it is the shadow derailleur causing the problem. I have a XTR normal rear mech. Also the demo bike I had the chainsuck problems with had a SRAM X0 rear mech. The same one as fitted to my enduro with no problems. I have noticed there is very little room between the outer chainring and the stainless steel plate on the chainstay.The only constant from everyone is the frame. The components on everyones bikes seem to be different. It is just enough for the chain to push through but not big enough to let the chain fall back through. Back pedalling basically forces the chain back down.

    I have tried the cable tie suggestion and first impression looks good. I rode two days this weekend both in muddy conditions, one of the rides the same route as I have ridden 3 times previously when I got chainsuck everytime a number times. I have had no chainsuck since trying the cable tie 'solution' as this prevents the chain from getting dragged up between the chainwheel and chainstay.

    If this continues in this way then my conclusion is that there is not enough clearance between the chainstay and chainwheel.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMT42
    I've had more chain suck with this bike then any I've owned. Dry, Wet, Muddy, what ever the condition. It always occures on the down shift to the small ring in rough conditions. Could it be that during the compression the chain gets to slack? It seems to be intermittent so getting to the root of the problem is frustrating. On a nother topic, I just put on some new SRAM cables, the full jacket, or what ever they are called. The ones with the red covers. At any rate I now have ghost shifting. Any one have the lengths that the casings should be or where to look first. I thing the casing by the derailer is to long? Any thoughts?
    I have had the exact same problem with my bike. I am running full XTR with the standard rear derailleur and it always happens when shifting into the granny ring if I am spinning too fast. If I let up on the pressure and slow down my rpm's it's fine but try to shift under load or spinning too quickly. On several occasions the chain gas popped out on the top side of the chainstay and on one occasion I didn't notice right away and I took a couple pedal strokes with it jammed up like that. Luckliy the neoprene chainstay guard was there! Anyhow i think that is must have something to do with the chain tension changing as the suspension cycles or something. This has happened consistently for me even with the chain and drivetrain completely clean. It definitely is not a big enough problem to make me want a different ride, just more of something that I have to pay attention to while shifting. If I am careful it it pretty much a non issue.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sworks365
    ... I have noticed there is very little room between the outer chainring and the stainless steel plate on the chainstay.The only constant from everyone is the frame.
    ...
    If this continues in this way then my conclusion is that there is not enough clearance between the chainstay and chainwheel.
    This exactly match also my experience. I had many chain sucks on Spec Epic, but virtually none on Spec Stumpy with the same drivetrain parts on same trails. The only difference was the clearance between chainstay and chainrings (quite narrow on Epic, << chain link width; enough wide on Stumpy, > chain link width). I think the clearance is very important parameter of chain suck.

  39. #39
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    Hello, I had a problem with chain stuck when I first bought the bike. I remember I had to 'stall' my pedalling stroke when changing from the mid ring to the lower.

    I don't have the problem now at all. I didn't do anything to stop it outright. I can only attribute it to a too long chain length. I had to take out links in my chain as it broke, since then i have had no issues at all. In fact it was this thread that reminded me I had the problem in the first place.

    I run XT cranks and rings, XT cass - X9 shifters and rear dérailleur, PG991 SRAM chain...if that helps at all

  40. #40
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    Chainsuck - final defeat. And attn: Hans

    Quote Originally Posted by LJJ
    My Mojo is the worst bike I've ever had for chain-suck (before the Mojo 5 x Cannondale, 1x Scott). This is a big issue if you live in the UK. I've replaced the entire drivechain, and it's happening less - but it's still happening when it's v muddy, in the middle ring, and when going from the granny to the middle. No wonder they put the alloy guard on....... I wonder why it's such a problem with this bike ?

    LJJ
    Sadly I wave farewell to the Ibis forum. I have got sick and tired of having to decide if there'll be any mud on my rides, in order to choose which bike to take out, and have reluctantly sold my frame. I've tried replacing chains, chainrings, I did the zip-tie mod on this forum, even glued it professionally into place. When I started thinking about putting the left hand side bottom bracket spacer onto the right hand side to alter the chainline to get the chainrings further away from the frame I thought "this is stupid - time to stop".

    Basically, what may be acceptable in sunny CA, don't work in the UK slop - and I know I'm not alone in my thinking. There is just not enough clearance between the chainrings and the frame - it's just a whisker over the width of a chain and when the chain gets mucky the chain comes up and wedges inbetween the frame and the other chainrings. The dreaded chainsuck happens in granny or middle ring, or when going up or down between granny & middle. You can't ride up a bloody great steep hill in the big ring.

    I think Ibis know there's a design fault, otherwise why the silly chainsuck guard, which itself makes the clearance even less. When Ibis does something to make this bike work in UK conditions (Hans ?) I may buy another, 'til then I'll only be on the Cannondale forum.

    Yours disappointed
    LJJ

  41. #41
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    I too ended up having some problems

    I have fitted a blackspire stinger chain device ( although its more of a chain guide really). Light simple and suits my dual ring setup. Best of all, cheap. So far no issues.

    I think the low chain stay is the culprit. If you compare the mojo to the new Turner and the IH Mk3, their chainstays are high. Nowhere for the chain to get stuck. My guess is that like all things the position of the chainstay is a compromise.

    Anyway, check out the blackspire, so far so good on my bike

  42. #42
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    Well since the early 90's we've known that nothing solves chainsuck like elevated chainstays. I've never had chainsuck on my Mojo but if I lived in a muddy area and had chainsuck problems I'd just accept that a bike like the Heckler is more suited to my trails.

    Edit: I wonder if running 8 speed and a short chain is keeping me chain suck free? I'll never know cuz I never ride mud.
    Keep the Country country.

  43. #43
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    I've been riding for over a year in muddy European conditions without any chainsuck issues whatsoever, which makes me think it's far more likely a problem with cranks and rings than a design issue with the frame. I'm riding FSA K-Force Light triple rings - smooth, light, shift great, and no chainsuck.

    I feel for those of you that have been having issues though, as my last bike suffered from the nasty suck in mud too. No fun at all. Very pleased with the Mojo though.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  44. #44
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    I had chain suck on my Mojo in dry conditions when I first built it up. When I took some links out of the orginal chain lenght it went away.

  45. #45
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    Nope ...

    I don't have chainsuck... I run very tight chains though. I fully compress the rear suspension, then cut the chain so that the rear derailleur is almost maxxed out [tight] in the biggest cog.
    That seems to be the way to go.
    I don't use a big ring, just the middle and granny are all I need. Never had a problem with CS running this setup, wet or dry.


    Rainman.
    It is inevitable ...

  46. #46
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    Hmm...Well, I have a Pivot Mach 5 with the same chain suck problem. The bottom of my chainstay is getting chewed up, and a couple of times, I've noticed the chain getting suck between the chainring and frame.

    I basically trashed my 8 month old XTR RD on my last ride (I have noticed that the carbon has had several scratches on it from past rides, and thought it was only a matter of time, with the many rocks we have on our trails here). So, looking at replacing it with an XT, but thought I might just swap the XT cage onto the XTR mech. After reading a bunch about how to disassemble the RD, I realized there are apparently 2 holes with which to attach the internal spring that provides the cage tension (i.e., chain tension). From what I have read, it comes installed in the low tension hole, so I'm wondering, if it would be a good idea to just move it to the high tension hole, and see if that fixes things.

    What is the disadvantage to having higher chain tension?
    - Jason

  47. #47
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    Im running all SRAM gear on a large mojo without the granny, being honest I run the chain tight enough that there is no room for the chain to be sucked in, 108 links if anyones interested (32 tooth rear 44 tooth front ring)

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja
    Any more info on this issue? I just demoed a Mojo and had a number of chain suck "events". Each time I was downshifting from the middle to the small chainring and the chain would suck up and hang on the chainstay. It required a quick backpedal to free things up. It was totally dry and no one else in the group had any chainsuck issues.
    I had installed a blackpire chainguide on mine and thats when I started having issues with chain suck.....specially when downshiffting from middle to granny gear. I find it helpful to have the cassette in the middle position before shifting the middle ring to the smallest ring.
    It sucks when it happens when you're in the middle of a climb.

  49. #49
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    I like the tension solution

  50. #50
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    I was having chainsuck issues and installed the zip tie solution. That worked great for about a month, then suddenly started having CS problems again, inspected and found the zip ties had snapped. Installed new ones, all was well again.

    Last weekend during my 3rd lap at the 24 Hours of Moab, massive chain suck when shifting down from middle to granny and quite a few instances when not shifting at all, just riding through rocks. Sometimes back pedaling fixed it, but I ended up off the bike and wrestling with the chain to get it back down below the chainstay at least a dozen times. It probably cost me over 10 minutes in the middle of the race. Very irritating.

    The zip tie solution works for me except that zip ties don't seem durable or to have a very long life. When the break in the middle of a race, I want to throw the whole bike off a cliff.

    Anyone have a more durable solution?

    Thanks.

  51. #51
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    The only time I experience chain suck is when the chain is dry. I did the baja epic race last year and on stage 3 I experience some chain suck. The night before I forgot or was too tired to lube the chain, other than that not much of a problem. Moab like baja is very dry, constant lube under those type of conditions would help.

  52. #52
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    I get CS , every time the conditions deteriorate...

    what i have noticed is it is the chain that is the problem as the chain rings tend to remain clean "running a dual setup" , going to try and see if a KNC chain is any better than the dura ace one that is causing all the crap.

    I tried the zip tie thing but cant them the stay in place .... i wonder if something like that can be fabricated and put on the mojo... in a few weeks I will be going over to a 1x9 setup, so I really hope that solves all my problems....

  53. #53
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    Chainsuck

    I've only had my MojoSL XT spec for a few weeks now and about 12 rides, and i've had chainsuck on at least 4 of those rides. Too me , I don't think this can be normal for a Brand new bike. Next time it happens I'll make a mental note of what gears I was going from and to, and conditions at the time..

  54. #54
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    the KNC helped my chain suck, also going 2x9, my problum with the KNC is I keep braking it.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco2
    I've only had my MojoSL XT spec for a few weeks now and about 12 rides, and i've had chainsuck on at least 4 of those rides. Too me , I don't think this can be normal for a Brand new bike. Next time it happens I'll make a mental note of what gears I was going from and to, and conditions at the time..
    I was having the same problem and my mechanic moved the crank in by placing the second spacer on the non drive side. This seem to help quite a bit. Only once in a blue moon did I get chain suck after that. My next problem was the chain suck protector kept falling off. So what I did was placed two zip ties onto the protector and whala, no more chain suck and no more losing my chain suck protector.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    I tried the zip tie thing but cant them the stay in place .... i wonder if something like that can be fabricated and put on the mojo...
    I'm hoping either someone knows of a commercial product that would work or will fabricate something that is more durable than zip ties.

    I race my Mojo numerous times each summer in a variety of conditions and length of races. I need all my front rings; 2x9 or 1x9 is not an option. Stopping in the middle of a race to lube my chain isn't an option, either. I cleaned and lubed my chain between laps at Moab and still got massive CS on the 3rd and 4th laps. And I've had it at Winter Park and lots of other times.

    Anybody come up with a more-durable-than-zip-ties solution that accomplishes the same thing?

  57. #57
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    I run the zip ty for chain suck & also to keep the chain stay protector on. The trick is you need to get industrial grade cable ty's made for outdoors & also with the METAL locking barb in the head, these have a much higher strength as well [you can grab them with visegrips & do them up very tight without them breaking].I ride in lots mud & still have the original cable ty I installed a year ago.Go to a industrial supply store like Grainger.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiRider
    Anybody come up with a more-durable-than-zip-ties solution that accomplishes the same thing?
    I remember seeing one a while back (years ago) that was a metal plate one would clamp on the bottom of the chainstays behind the bottom bracket (so this would not work for the mojo, but maybe could be adapted). The plate had a staircase-like cut in it, similar to what the zip ties are doing...but the manufacturer has escaped me.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradoxj13
    I remember seeing one a while back (years ago) that was a metal plate one would clamp on the bottom of the chainstays behind the bottom bracket (so this would not work for the mojo, but maybe could be adapted). The plate had a staircase-like cut in it, similar to what the zip ties are doing...but the manufacturer has escaped me.
    Ringle used to make them, and there were also a bunch of knockoffs. My Klein Rascal had one built into the chainstay.

    -D
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  60. #60
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    I have only had my Mojo for about a month but here is my take. Anyone riding a Mojo is probably a fairly experienced rider with reasonable technique and a decent build kit. The theme seems to be that chain suck happens when down shifting on rough terrain under load +/- mud. This happened to me once while pedaling uphill over roots while I downshifted from the middle to the small ring. Solution... Downshift before the climb which is simply better technique or at least lighten up on the pedal stroke when shifting. Since I have paid attention to this I have not had the problem.

  61. #61
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    I haven't had chainsuck in years with my Ventana El Saltamontes (even with worn parts and chain). I was in a horribly muddy 12 hour race once and had to replace every bearing on the bike and the chain afterwards, but never had chain suck. I put nearly new parts from the Ventana on my Ibis with a chain that had been taken off and cleaned in solvent with a brush....spotless. I then lubed it up with ProGold ProLink chain lube. I rode 1.5 miles in dry conditions and had chainsuck going down in to granny. I don't see how anything associated with this bike could be causing it, but it does seem to have a propensity for this.

    From reading the thread it looks like people have suggested these options:

    1) Run shorter/tighter chain
    2) tighten spring tension in Rear Mech
    3) Zip ties
    4) move 2nd BB spacer from drive side to non-drive side to move crank closer to bike
    5) new/clean drivetrain

    I am running medium tenstion on the Rear Mech (SRAM X0). What would be negatives of going to max tension? Also, what is the "zip tie" solution. Do you just put zip ties around the chainstay on the little chrome protector? Any certain orientation?
    Last edited by lemmy999; 12-03-2009 at 07:19 AM.

  62. #62
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    I think with all the issues we are having with chainsuck on this bike, Ibis should design it to work with a HammerSchmidt ..... i see that as the only solution

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    I think with all the issues we are having with chainsuck on this bike, Ibis should design it to work with a HammerSchmidt ..... i see that as the only solution
    Chainsuck isn't an across-the-board scenario. Based upon the number of people who have commented here on experiencing it with their Mojo's, my seat-of-the-pants guesstimation is that only a small percentage of Ibisians are actually experiencing this particular malady. I consider myself very fortunate that in 5000+ km over the last two years or so - much of that very nasty and muddy - I haven't had a single problem with chainsuck. Regrets to those of you having issues though - my previous ride was plagued, and it was seriously annoying. Really happy that my Mojo is suck free.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  64. #64
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    I've only had it happen when it was time for a new chain. From most of what I've read, a worn drivetrain has been the biggest culprit.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu
    I've only had it happen when it was time for a new chain. From most of what I've read, a worn drivetrain has been the biggest culprit.
    I recently built up a Mojo for my wife. The drivetrain is brand new. She experienced chain suck on the very first ride and for several rides after that.

    On her two most recent rides, which occurred after we had just enough rain to tamp down the dust - it had been very dusty here after several months of almost no rain - her rides were suck-free. On the other hand, she's being very careful now when she shifts to her small ring. (On her old bike, she could pretty much shift into the small ring anytime she wanted without worrying about chain suck.)

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    I recently built up a Mojo for my wife. The drivetrain is brand new. She experienced chain suck on the very first ride and for several rides after that.

    On her two most recent rides, which occurred after we had just enough rain to tamp down the dust - it had been very dusty here after several months of almost no rain - her rides were suck-free. On the other hand, she's being very careful now when she shifts to her small ring. (On her old bike, she could pretty much shift into the small ring anytime she wanted without worrying about chain suck.)

    My drivetrain isn't new, but has very few miles on it. I purchased everything new in June and haven't done more than 200 or maybe 300 miles riding since then. Also, just 1 week before I rode my Ventana in very muddy conditions with no chainsuck. Everything is perfectly clean and installed on the Mojo and was riding less than 2 miles on dry and generally flatter terrain and had chainsuck with the very first shift to granny. I think I am going to try moving one of the two spacers on the BB to the left side. I know Dave Turner does this and a friend with a Turner does this and they have no chainsuck problems.

  67. #67
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    L limit screw set correctly?

  68. #68
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    I have two Mojo's and I am another with no chain suck. I will add that I ride the road when things get muddy. I am running XO.
    Last edited by miles wadsworth; 12-03-2009 at 05:14 PM.
    milesW

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu
    L limit screw set correctly?
    Yes, the FD low limit screw is set correctly.

    I might try moving one drive side spacer to the other side. (My wife's Mojo has a Shimano external BB crankset.)

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    I've been riding for over a year in muddy European conditions without any chainsuck issues whatsoever, which makes me think it's far more likely a problem with cranks and rings than a design issue with the frame. I'm riding FSA K-Force Light triple rings - smooth, light, shift great, and no chainsuck.
    I've checked the K-Force Light's installation instructions and see that it specifies that two spacers be used on the drive side and one spacer on the non-drive side. (This is the same spacer configuration used by Shimano external BB cranksets for 68mm BB shells with no E-type derailleur.)

    Could you examine your spacer configuration and let us know how many spacers you have on each side?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    I've checked the K-Force Light's installation instructions and see that it specifies that two spacers be used on the drive side and one spacer on the non-drive side. (This is the same spacer configuration used by Shimano external BB cranksets for 68mm BB shells with no E-type derailleur.)

    Could you examine your spacer configuration and let us know how many spacers you have on each side?
    I have one spacer on the left (nondrive) side and two on the right (drive) side, as per manufacturers instructions.

    I wore out the original FSA rings, and am wearing Salsa rings now, still without chainsuck issues. Rest of drivetrain: SRAM X9 FD, XO RD, and a SRAM PC 991 Hollow Pin chain.

    Has anyone done a rundown of the specific drivetrains that are having the suckage to see if there is a pattern?
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    I have one spacer on the left (nondrive) side and two on the right (drive) side, as per manufacturers instructions.

    I wore out the original FSA rings, and am wearing Salsa rings now, still without chainsuck issues. Rest of drivetrain: SRAM X9 FD, XO RD, and a SRAM PC 991 Hollow Pin chain.

    Has anyone done a rundown of the specific drivetrains that are having the suckage to see if there is a pattern?
    I think it is a combination of riding/shifting style, frame, and worn components. Obviously my components are no more worn from one day to the next and my riding/shifting style didn't change at all. The only thing that changed was the frame. Same crank, same BB, same chain, same cassette, same wheels hubs spokes tubes, pedals, etc. Nothing changed except the frame and seatpost. One day was just like the last several years...no chainsuck . Next day chainsuck on the first shift from middle to granny.

    BTW, I have:

    Crank: FSA Deus with rings around 6 months old
    Cassette: SRAM PG990 11-34
    Front Mech: Shimano XT
    Rear Mech: SRAM X0, spring tension set to mid.
    Chain: 6 month old XTR
    BB: Shimano external bearing, 2 spacers on drive, 1 on non-drive
    Frame: Mojo SL size L
    Chain Length: wrapped around big ring, and big cog, overlap of 1 link.

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    Last edited by Mike_MSK; 12-28-2009 at 03:12 PM.

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    I've had my Mojo for 2.5 yrs now and have had no chain suck at all. replaced chain and small sprocket once. XO long cage.

    Sorry to hear that people are having some troubles.

    I agree that there is not one solution to rule them all. Good luck!

    --MXFanatic

  75. #75
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    Lets us know how that works out for you..... might do it as well if it helps


    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    My drivetrain isn't new, but has very few miles on it. I purchased everything new in June and haven't done more than 200 or maybe 300 miles riding since then. Also, just 1 week before I rode my Ventana in very muddy conditions with no chainsuck. Everything is perfectly clean and installed on the Mojo and was riding less than 2 miles on dry and generally flatter terrain and had chainsuck with the very first shift to granny. I think I am going to try moving one of the two spacers on the BB to the left side. I know Dave Turner does this and a friend with a Turner does this and they have no chainsuck problems.

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    ok, what the f' Ibis???? as much as I like my Mojo SL, I've never owned a bike with this much of a chain suck problem. I've had Santa Cruz's, Cannondale's, Intense, none of them had any memorable chain suck.

    My current setup is a Race Face Deus crank with 28/38 and an 12-27 in back with medium cage derailleur. No less than 3 chain suck incidents on Sunday's ride.
    Prior to this setup I had the regular 22/32/44 front rings and still had lots of chain suck incidents.

    All of the parts were new and have been chain sucking since the beginning.

    Most of the incidents actually require me to stop and pull the chain back down below the swing arm. Not acceptable if I want to be able to race this bike!

    Ibis, tell us what is causing the problem, and tell us how to correct it. At this point it is the only flaw I can find on an otherwise perfect design.

    Since I run a double up front I was considering moving even more spacers to the driveside to allow the chain to drop back down but that hardly seems like an appropriate solution.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseyscot
    ok, what the f' Ibis???? as much as I like my Mojo SL, I've never owned a bike with this much of a chain suck problem. I've had Santa Cruz's, Cannondale's, Intense, none of them had any memorable chain suck.

    My current setup is a Race Face Deus crank with 28/38 and an 12-27 in back with medium cage derailleur. No less than 3 chain suck incidents on Sunday's ride.
    Prior to this setup I had the regular 22/32/44 front rings and still had lots of chain suck incidents.

    All of the parts were new and have been chain sucking since the beginning.

    Most of the incidents actually require me to stop and pull the chain back down below the swing arm. Not acceptable if I want to be able to race this bike!

    Ibis, tell us what is causing the problem, and tell us how to correct it. At this point it is the only flaw I can find on an otherwise perfect design.

    Since I run a double up front I was considering moving even more spacers to the driveside to allow the chain to drop back down but that hardly seems like an appropriate solution.
    I don't think frames cause chain suck, I think it is the set up. Have you tried the tips in this thread? I feel your frustration, it really screws with the flow of the ride. It can be fixed, you just have to find the problem. Good luck. Sorry, I have not been helpful.
    milesW

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles wadsworth
    I don't think frames cause chain suck, I think it is the set up. Have you tried the tips in this thread? I feel your frustration, it really screws with the flow of the ride. It can be fixed, you just have to find the problem. Good luck. Sorry, I have not been helpful.
    I think the frame assists with chainsuck. The chainstay right behind the cranks is so much lower than any other bike I've had. If chainsuck starts to happen there is very little time for it to drop before it hits the chainstay. If the chainstay was higher I bet this thread wouldn't exist. Look at the Heckler or new Turner 5-spot. Neither of those have a lower chainstay, which would make chainsuck nearly impossible. Even if the chain held onto the chainring for a long time, it could eventually dropoff with no chance of it getting wedged on the chainstay.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I think the frame assists with chainsuck. The chainstay right behind the cranks is so much lower than any other bike I've had. If chainsuck starts to happen there is very little time for it to drop before it hits the chainstay. If the chainstay was higher I bet this thread wouldn't exist. Look at the Heckler or new Turner 5-spot. Neither of those have a lower chainstay, which would make chainsuck nearly impossible. Even if the chain held onto the chainring for a long time, it could eventually dropoff with no chance of it getting wedged on the chainstay.
    True. Elevated stays are clear of the chain even when it's wrapped all around the cranks....

  80. #80
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    Yeah, his example wasn't very good. The bike my Mojo's parts came from was a 575 and that had a similar stay design but I think it was a little higher and it never got chain suck. His theory makes sense that the lower the stay is the more likely it is to catch the chain.
    Keep the Country country.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseyscot
    ok, what the f' Ibis???? as much as I like my Mojo SL, I've never owned a bike with this much of a chain suck problem. I've had Santa Cruz's, Cannondale's, Intense, none of them had any memorable chain suck.

    My current setup is a Race Face Deus crank with 28/38 and an 12-27 in back with medium cage derailleur. No less than 3 chain suck incidents on Sunday's ride.
    Prior to this setup I had the regular 22/32/44 front rings and still had lots of chain suck incidents.

    All of the parts were new and have been chain sucking since the beginning.

    Most of the incidents actually require me to stop and pull the chain back down below the swing arm. Not acceptable if I want to be able to race this bike!

    Ibis, tell us what is causing the problem, and tell us how to correct it. At this point it is the only flaw I can find on an otherwise perfect design.

    Since I run a double up front I was considering moving even more spacers to the driveside to allow the chain to drop back down but that hardly seems like an appropriate solution.
    I've got to agree with you. I have an 07 Mojo with XTR. When I ride in muddy conditions, I get lots of chainsuck. It happens when the chain starts to dry. I try to keep it wet by riding through puddles, or by spraying oil on the chain, when it starts to suck. When it was new, it did it. Luckily I live in SOCAL, so it isn't that much of an issue. I've owned a few FS bikes, and this sucks more than any of the others. When I ride in wet conditions, I have a bottle of synthetic oil,that I apply several times during the ride.
    Don

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles wadsworth
    I don't think frames cause chain suck, I think it is the set up. Have you tried the tips in this thread? I feel your frustration, it really screws with the flow of the ride. It can be fixed, you just have to find the problem. Good luck. Sorry, I have not been helpful.
    The frame definitely assists. In years of riding and sometimes in horrible conditions of a muddy 12hr race I never one time had chain suck on my Ventana. Very first ride on the Ibis within 2 miles I had chain suck. Being conscientious in your pedaling/shifting can reduce chain suck on the Mojo significantly, but on my other bikes I didn't even have to think about it.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I think the frame assists with chainsuck. The chainstay right behind the cranks is so much lower than any other bike I've had. If chainsuck starts to happen there is very little time for it to drop before it hits the chainstay. If the chainstay was higher I bet this thread wouldn't exist. Look at the Heckler or new Turner 5-spot. Neither of those have a lower chainstay, which would make chainsuck nearly impossible. Even if the chain held onto the chainring for a long time, it could eventually dropoff with no chance of it getting wedged on the chainstay.

    I see and agree.
    milesW

  84. #84
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    interesting website...

    http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

  85. #85
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    I've had occasional chain suck over the years on the Mojo and it's frustrating. It's usually a combination of bad shift choice (like a hand full of gears under torque) and conditions (like mud and/or worn parts). Right now I run Race face SL crank, Sram chain, and XTR cassette and have had no trouble at all - even in the rain season.

    One thing I've found helpful is that if you can catch it before it's horribly jammed up, but still sucked, you can bounce hard on the rear suspension and release it.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  86. #86
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    Used to happen to me also, if I caught it quick enough a quick back pedal would unjamb it no problem. Ever since putting on the chain guide and getting rid of the big ring going to a double, I haven't had one chain suck. And I've been riding in nothing but mud lately.

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    How to prevent Chain DROP

    Fellas, most of what you refer to is chain drop. Chain suck as others have stated only happens with worn out or gunked up drivetrains. If you are riding hard, in nasty situations, there is a good chance you may experience this 1-3 times a ride. Check out some of the stop action photos in some of the MTB rags, the chain is bouncing as high as 6-8 inches, its amasing it finds its way at all. Everyone I know, with any brand you name has experienced this to some degree. Me, if it happens once that is already one to many times. It only happens once and this is what I do. None of you live on the moon, so you know someone who has a machine shop. Go a get them to make you basically a BIG washer, slightly larger than the granny with the chain on it. Make sure this is the same inside diameter as your bottom bracket shell. What is perfect is to get the thickness 2.5mm so it just replaces one of the spacers. This system I have run on one bike that the chain drop was so bad we had to break the chain twice on a ride to get the damn thing out. It's kinda cool, you can hear a tinkle every time the chain trys to drop as it hits the ring and then slips back on to the granny. Cost is about a case of beer so I get 3 made so I have spares if a buddy gets in trouble and when I get a new bike. Every used bike I have sold still has the neat inner ring. I will try and upload pics, if it doesn't work email me. Today I ordered an SL, I won't even ride once without this little seatstay saver. Never again will you have Chain DROP
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chain suck issues-inner-chain-guide-002.jpg  

    Chain suck issues-inner-chain-guide-003.jpg  

    Chain suck issues-inner-chain-guide-005.jpg  


  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfaith
    Fellas, most of what you refer to is chain drop. Chain suck as others have stated only happens with worn out or gunked up drivetrains.
    The mechanism you show prevents the chain from falling off the small ring to the inside. I do not believe that this is the problem being discussed in this thread. (Well, not until you posted, anyway...)

    As I understand it the problem is as follows: When shifting from the middle to the small ring, the chain will get pulled ("sucked") up over the chainstay. The chain has not fallen off the small ring. In fact, it's almost always still on the middle ring.

    My wife has experienced this problem on her Mojo. The drivetrain was brand new. It was dusty though because those were the trail conditions at the time.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    The mechanism you show prevents the chain from falling off the small ring to the inside. I do not believe that this is the problem being discussed in this thread. (Well, not until you posted, anyway...)

    As I understand it the problem is as follows: When shifting from the middle to the small ring, the chain will get pulled ("sucked") up over the chainstay. The chain has not fallen off the small ring. In fact, it's almost always still on the middle ring.

    My wife has experienced this problem on her Mojo. The drivetrain was brand new. It was dusty though because those were the trail conditions at the time.
    that's right KevinB. The problem is the chain getting pulled up from below the chainstay and lodging above the chainstay, not fallling back into place without manual intervention (i.e. pulling the sh*t out of it until it slides back down past the decorative silver chainstay protector). that guard won't help with this problem.

    it sounds like the common culprits are
    1. not enough rear derailleur spring tension
    2. chain too long
    3. not enough driveside spacers (though this must interfere with chainline quality)

    I am going to test 1 and 3 before shortening my chain. my drivetrain was brand new and like others, the problem surfaced from the beginning.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfaith
    Fellas, most of what you refer to is chain drop. Chain suck as others have stated only happens with worn out or gunked up drivetrains.
    No, it is chain SUCK that we are having problems with. Your idea is good to prevent drop, but that is not the problem we are having.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro
    I've got to agree with you. I have an 07 Mojo with XTR. When I ride in muddy conditions, I get lots of chainsuck. It happens when the chain starts to dry. I try to keep it wet by riding through puddles, or by spraying oil on the chain, when it starts to suck. When it was new, it did it. Luckily I live in SOCAL, so it isn't that much of an issue. I've owned a few FS bikes, and this sucks more than any of the others. When I ride in wet conditions, I have a bottle of synthetic oil,that I apply several times during the ride.
    I've had EXTREME problems with chainsuck in the conditions described above - chain is clean and lubed and all components are not worn out, but when the chain gets wet and starts to dry or if it is muddy, I'm instantly transported to Chain Suck City. I completely and totally HATE it! Primarily because I race the Expert class and take racing fairly seriously. Most of the courses I race (lots of Winter Park, some other Mountain States Cup) have water crossings. Chain suck has ruined more than one race on my Mojo. Oh, and I got massive chainsuck at the 24 Hours of Moab. Totally dry conditions, but very sandy and gritty. Required several dismounts to get the chain out from between the chainstay and the chainrings. I almost had a stroke on the 3rd or 4th dismount to remedy chainsuck.

    It is probably a combination of conditions (water crossings) and being in a hurry (race pace). When I'm just riding, I think about shifting more and I recognize the dreaded sound and stop/backpedal to prevent it. When I'm racing, I don't have room in my brain for "is this a good time to shift? will the chain stay below the chainstay? was that the sound of chainsuck starting and I should stop pedaling and backpedal?". Having to think like that is LAME LAME LAME!!!!

    I've tried shortening the chain and increasing tension. I clean and lube. I adjust derailuers. No effect. Still lots of chain suck on race day.

    I resolved it by installing zip ties. Unfortunately standard zip ties dry, crack, and break. So I bought some Heavy Duty zip ties from Grainger. They've been working for a while. I should probably go check them to see how they're doing.

    The zip tie solution works for me. But cheesy stupid zip ties on my Mojo SL to prevent chainsuck are lame. I'm still unhappy about this issue.

  92. #92
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    Yep, unhappy here too. My chainsuck happens while staying in the middle ring. The chain is bouncing on the bottom run while pedaling through rocks, and it gets caught by the chainstay.

    When the suspension is compressed, there is more room for the chain to move between the chainrings and the chainstay, when the bike is at rest with no weight, there is less room there and the chain is jammed. It falls out if you can compress the shock far enough! My only successful solutions are to not pedal in rough sections, or to keep it in the big ring.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB24
    .......My only successful solutions are to not pedal in rough sections, or to keep it in the big ring.
    How many links are you running. Sounds like the chain may be long. What RD are you running?

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  94. #94
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    I shortened my chain 118 links I think. Can't do big to big but it sure helped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noshortcuts
    How many links are you running. Sounds like the chain may be long. What RD are you running?
    I tried a shorter chain, such that I would likely break the derailer or hanger if I shifted into big-big, and had the same problem. It is X.9

  96. #96
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    I go one link shorter than you guys are talking about. In the big ring I don't even go halfway down. In the middle ring I only go down to 3rd. I've had chainsuck once but was shifting and had a gritty chain at the time.
    Maybe look into a ceramic coated aluminum or Ti middle ring with a smooth finish. These might more easily release the chain, especially after a couple months use.
    Keep the Country country.

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    LBS Solution to Chain Suck

    The awesome folks at Passion Trails in Belmont just spent the last couple days wrestling with (and swearing at) the chain suck on my large Mojo SL with XT build. They were easily seeing the problem with new chain rings and chain. The rear cassette was original, but in good shape. This thread was a huge help to them when trying out most of the various solutions (OK, not the out of control full fender solution), but most everything else including various attempts to fabricate guards. In the end, they used a combination of three different changes:

    1) Shorten the chain. Since I was already replacing the large chain ring with a bash guard and the middle chain ring with a 36 tooth, they were going to do this anyway and what they tried first.

    2) Switch chains. They compared SRAM with Shimano XTR and the SRAM improved things

    3) Straighten the chain line between the middle chain ring and the largest rear cog. They originally overdid it and things weren't so hot on the small cogs.

    There were also a few tweaks along the lines of living with chain suck:
    a) Start the chain stay wrap behind the chain suck guard, since if chain suck occurs, the chain will chew through the wrap and loosen in

    b) Doubled the thickness of the chain suck guard. We'll see if this is actually a good idea, since it could just be making the clearances tighter. I think they partly did this because I'm a spaz and my chain had chewed partway through the old guard.

    I hope this helps everyone. We'll see tomorrow at Annadel how this actually works on the trail.

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    One more thing

    I forgot to mention that if the above three changes don't do the trick once I get out on the trail, the next step Passion Trails recommended is to look at different rear derailleurs, but no reason to go there unless we have to.

  99. #99
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    In the past two weeks I have cussed at my Mojo more than any other time. Even gave serious thought to selling it ONLY because chainsuck is a fcking problem on it.
    The rear swingarm needs to be redesigned, it hangs too low by the chainrings IMO. Mild chainsuck will usually drop off the chainrings after it starts going up on other bikes I've had. The swingarm hangs so low that the mild chainsuck turns into stopping the bike, pulling the chain out, and replacing whatever links got bent.

    The Mojo has been the best bike I have ever owned, but this may push me to get something else instead.

    This problem has existed with several drivetrains, cranksets, chains, lubes, with and without a chainguide. Next on my list of things to try is a different brand of chainring. If that fails...

    I get chainsuck going small to middle, middle to small, and today just riding along up a steep climb with no shifting and being in granny gear it sucked. I can't depend on it. My entire ride is focused on trying to ride in a manner to prevent the suck, and listening for it to start sucking so I can stop before it's too late.

    The solution of keep the drivetrain clean, new, whatever will not work. It's a mountain bike. We go through water, mud, dust, dirt on every ride. Cleaning it will only last until I get to a trail.

    If a swingarm redesign is not possible, then I'd like to see a plastic device made that can be zip tied to the swingarm to accomplish the same thing that the previous posts do when they put 3 zipties on the swingarm to force a drop.

  100. #100
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    I wonder if chainrings with lots of shift assist ramps and oddly shaped teeth like Shimano catch the chain more than simpler rings. I'd also expect a larger size chainring to cause suck more than a 32T when both are mounted in the normal position.

    Agreed that a higher chainstay would help the issue and I'm curious if they did that with the Mojo HD.
    Keep the Country country.

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