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  1. #1
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    Belief about sizing

    Hi everybody!

    Is known for all of us that Ibis has a peculiar sizing system, slightly shorter than the rest of mtb brands.

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had lots of doubts about which frame size should I choose.

    There is a common belief about sizing that says the next: "when you are between two sizes, you should choose the shorter one".

    Few days ago, I heard a shop assistant saying that if he wanted a road bike and he were between two sizes, he would choose the shorter option, above all for sprints, energetic requeriments and besides... On the other hand, if he wanted to buy an enduro/all mountain bike and he also were between to sizes, without a doubt, he would choose the larger size, with the shortest possible stem.

    What do you think about it?

  2. #2
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    Good job!

    Agreed. Shorter stem for better handling - especially on the downhill. It's not so big a deal on the road, but when you're pointed down steeper stuff and taking drops it's easier to have your center of gravity centered and/or further back on the bike with a shorter stem. While you can get your weight back and down your arms are only so long and they limit this (especially if you are in a good bent arm position). Centered (as opposed to forward) mass makes it easier to get back and wheelie/manual as well. On the road the longer stem can be a bit of an advantage especially when climbing. Thus, I'd go shorter stem, larger frame. I'm 5'9" building up a Large Mojo HD with a 55mm stem. My Road/CX bike uses a 100mm stem.

  3. #3
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    So, according to this, I should choose XL Mojo HD frame with 50 mm stem...

    I have had two Scott bikes, Scale and Genius, and both of them were Large with 90 mm stem and I rode comfortable, but now, talking about Mojo HD, I'm not sure about the size.

    I'm really lost...

  4. #4
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    FWIW - I have a Scott Spark 900 in Medium. For my proportions I need a 100mm stem on that. I would prefer shorter but would need a new frame.

    Not making that mistake on the HD. I demoed a Large HD with a 70MM stem. Frame size was great and I knew I could do a shorter stem, which I wanted (I'll be getting 55mm).

    That's me though. What you want and how you ride are up to you. If you prefer a longer stem and a smaller frame go for it. This is what works for me and how I plan to ride the bike. ...and it's not like my Scott rides like total crap. I can still rip down a descent, but I do notice that my center of gravity is farther forward than I want it - especially on the steeper stuff).
    Last edited by sdemars; 05-15-2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
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    sdemars, look at the next pic. It is a comparison between two different L Mojo HD and between a Mojo HD and a SC Nomad, in order to check how do they fit.

    Belief about sizing-comparaci-n-geometr-.jpg

    The white Mojo HD seems too short, although is the same size than the black one. And the Nomad seems also shortest than the black Mojo HD.

    By the way, I'm 6 feet. Will a XL Mojo HD be too much big for me? I don't know and I can't demo any of them.

  6. #6
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    Oh, you are still at it? The longer you wait, the less HD time you get ;-)

    Go XL.

    We have some things in common. Me: 1,84m, 90cm inseam (about 6'0", 35.43 inseam). I ride an HD L frame with 60mm and 780 bar, the bike feels rather short than long. I came from a 2009 Scott Genius L, where I started with a 100mm stem. I changed that to 60, because all the magazines say that shorter is modern. Didn't work.
    And I demoed an XL some months before I bought the L frame (no idea what stem), and it felt great too. I still think back and would love to demo one XL again, but there's no one around.

    Go XL.

    d-bug recommends L for that agility reason - have you seen his videos and stuff? You (and me) are not his league, sorry. From what you write in all your threads, you won't feel that extra flickability. Go XL.

    And more words from me on that exact topic, copied from an older thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerberos View Post
    .... I love my bike for sure.

    That said, I demoed an XL some months earlier and was quite happy with it, too. There were some issues with wrong tires and too firm shock setup, which added to the overall feel, but it still felt great.

    I finally chose the Large, because I wanted to have that extra agility - although that's more I read about than I feel about. My skills are ok, but I am not that super technical rider reaching the limits of the HD.

    I still think of the XL from time to time. The longer wheel base gives you even more confidence on descents. And on the XL you will want to use a short stem as 40 or 50, especially with a wider bar like that 750. And that shorter stem again helps you in cornering a lot. Put your saddle as far to the front as you can, use a straight post without setback and you're fine. I'm sure you will love your XL!
    Go XL.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerberos View Post
    Oh, you are still at it? The longer you wait, the less HD time you get ;-)
    I totally agree with you.

    I have never demoed a XL Mojo HD so I don't know how does it fit. Because of that, I'm horrified when I imagine buying a XL Mojo HD and regreting later...

    Besides, they are expensive bikes and I can't buy it basing on oppinions (of course with the best intention), I need test them and the problem is there aren't XL demo bikes in my country, and this is the reason why I have a lot of doubts...

    I apologize for being boring with this matter...

  8. #8
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    Little lesson - long post

    I assume this is you in all of these images. If not it's a moot point

    Even so I can't do a lot other than agree with you that the white Mojo does "look" smaller. However, it's hard to tell many things from these images -stem length, saddle position, Bar width, and the exact angles of your body. A more true test of fit requires that all things are equal except for the one you're trying to determine (frame size). If you're asking for a recommendation I'd be reluctant but also want to know how tall you are and what your inseam is (measured for a bike fit, not jeans).

    A little bike fit basics: There are three points in space you have to work with: 1) the bottom bracket location, 2) the location of the saddle, and 3) the location of your hands.

    1) BB is fixed so you can't change that.
    2) Saddle. 90% of a bike fit is determining the appropriate distance (vertical and horizontal) the saddle should be in relation to the BB. (Note: this is slightly impacted by crank length) How far up and back from the BB you are depends on your personal geometry (leg length) and the geometry of the bike (a really slack ST angle and short legs may force your saddle forward, whereas long legs and an upright STA may put you on a setback post).

    3) Hands. Hand position dependent on how you ride and personal preference. Wider bars will increase the angle you lean fwd as will a longer stem. They also move your center of gravity (COG) forward some.

    You cannot control leg length. You cannot control frame design (i.e. ST angle). Which doesn't matter much as these don't really help you determine frame size (though they may help determine frame design). It's pretty unlikely you'd get a frame so large that you can't stand over it, or you'd have to slam the seatpost.

    You have complete control over how you want your cockpit set-up. You may want to be a bit more upright. You may want the handling of a shorter stem. You may want wide bars or narrower ones. The best advice I can give you is to KNOW THIS BEFORE YOU DECIDE on frame size. This in large part determines frame size.

    EXAMPLE: In most bikes I'd ride a medium. Because of the geometry of the Spark and the fact that I have slightly shorter legs and a longer top, I needed a straight post and the saddle slammed forward. The bike was designed with a set-back post and a centered saddle. I moved 20mm forward based on fit. This meant I had to swap the 80mm stem for a 100 if I didn't want to be cramped. On an XC bike I also use narrower bars (~650) which puts me more upright and also helped me need a longer stem. If I knew both my dimensions and how I wanted the cockpit set-up better I would have selected a large ...or a different bike.

    Time to get a mojo. I know I wanted wider bars (~710) and I knew I wanted a shorter stem (50-65mm) so I had to select a frame that would allow me to do that without being cramped. For me a large frame works.

    Know yourself, both your dimensions and how you want to feel in the cockpit. Then go look at the frame to make a decision. Ask questions. Learn as much as you can. Ask the shop for help. Ask if they can do a fit. Then make the best decision you can.

    FWIW - saddle position isn't usually considered quite as critical on a trail bike where you generally log fewer miles and move around a lot. When you're cranking at 80-90 RPM for hours and hours then even the most minute problems in saddle height or cleat position can lead to problems. However, being too far forward throwing off your COG can ruin your day if you like to point it downhill a lot. Weight forward makes it easier to endo or land the front tire - not guaranteed, but it's easier to screw up in these ways and harder to be in a good bent arm weight down position. The less you're actually sitting in one position pedaling, the less important it is to find this exact right position and the more flexibility you have selecting between two frame sizes. Smaller frames have shorter wheelbases (generally) and may seem slightly more maneuverable or more flickable. OTOH a longer frame may feel more stable at speed.

    As always YMMV

  9. #9
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    HD's seem to run a bit small to start with... Id go xl with a shorter stem... Im on a xl with a 70mm stem right now.. Im 6'2"-- but even if i was 6' i cant imagine going to a L .. My seat post is pretttty far out... If i was around 6' id still get a xl and go with a 50mm or 60mm stem..

    Also-- where are you from-- if your in the states-- why not buy the bike from competitive cyclist? They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee... If you get the bike and it doesnt fit-- send it back and they will send you the right size.. Creates a win situation for sure..

  10. #10
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    Like I told you in the PM, those bikes look too small for you.

  11. #11
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    Pick one, either will be fine.
    Regardless of what you get, you will always wonder if you got the right size.
    When I got the XL, I did so mainly because everyone said I should get it. I ran it with a 60mm stem and 725mm bars, it was fine. It never handled like I wanted though.
    Now I'm on a L with 70m stem and 750mm bars, and it's a frickin dream on the DH. I do feel slightly cramped ONLY when standing and pedaling.

    On the XL I tried a 45mm stem to shorten the cockpit, and it was the worst handling bike ever for me. It was plowing turns and the front wheel felt too far ahead. I had to intentionally move my body weight forward to feel properly balanced. Going down steep stuff it was great, but that's about 1% of my riding.

    A L with 70mm stem will fit exactly the same as an XL with 50mm stem, assuming all other parts are equal and bars are at the same height from the ground.
    The XL will feel better on steep DH.
    The L will handle better due to better weight distribution and shorter wheelbase.

    When I was making the move from XL to L, I had it in my head that if I ever need an 80mm stem for proper fit, I would stick with the XL and 60mm stem. purely because I *thought* an 80mm stem on that bike would be fking lame and not cool. When I tried the 80mm stem with the 725mm bars, I had the BEST test ride ever on it. I thought, how could this be?! It is supposed to suck with such a long stem. I was torn between the cool/trendy factor of shorter stems, and the fact that the bike did frigging AWESOME with an 80mm stem. I decided riding is what is important, so went with the move to the L.
    I have since gone to a wider 750mm bar and shortened the stem to 70mm. Not a single ride goes by where I think I should have stuck with the XL.
    BTW, I also run a straight seatpost and have the seat pushed almost all the way forward, that's just where I like in in relation to the cranks.

    Bottom line, you should demo both, again and again and again. We can give you tons of opinions and experiences, but those will not directly translate to you.

    Still working on getting those pics...
    Those who know, ride a Mojo AND a Mojo HD.
    Quadzilla
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55
    Ok, whatever, cold water on my bike boner right there.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobanovskyy View Post

    The white Mojo HD seems too short, although is the same size than the black one. And the Nomad seems also shortest than the black Mojo HD.

    By the way, I'm 6 feet. Will a XL Mojo HD be too much big for me? I don't know and I can't demo any of them.
    The white HD is not a Large. Maybe a Medium. The seat tube is shorter on the white one.

    BTW, I'm 6'0. The Large HD handles tight, rough and rocky great with 70mm stem and 750mm bars. Nearly all my trail bikes in 30 years have had near this TT length or slightly shorter when short stems were 100mm. The trend is longer TT now, and is more stable, but of course less nimble.

  13. #13
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    I'm also 6'0, on a Large HD with a 70mm - bars are cut at 740mm. The only time I feel cramped, like d-bug, is when I'm standing and pedaling...otherwise the bike feels absolutely spot-on, especially on the downs when I can drop the seat and let the bike move freely underneath me.
    ride, eat, sleep, repeat

  14. #14
    aka dan51
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    Here are the pics of me on my bike for comparison.
    I measured my height last night for the first time in years, apparently I am taller than I thought. I'm 6'2".

    Belief about sizing-img_1934.jpg
    Belief about sizing-img_1936.jpg
    Belief about sizing-img_1932.jpg
    Those who know, ride a Mojo AND a Mojo HD.
    Quadzilla
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55
    Ok, whatever, cold water on my bike boner right there.

  15. #15
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    To your original question, I firmly agree that when in doubt on that bike, go up. I did the reverse originally on a standard mojo, and was trapped with longer than desired stem. So ended up getting the bigger size, and have been much happier ever since.

  16. #16
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    Everyone is different. There is a myth that a smaller bike handles better, but that is not necessarily the case. With a large, I cannot get the weight distribution to feel right (while riding the bike) and, as a result, it does not turn as well as a XL at the limit. With the XL, I feel comfortable sliding the front and/or rear in a turn with my feet on the pedals. And, it is a monster in the berm. I guess my point is that the best way to tell is to ride them both. What works for you is probably determined in part by how you ride (your riding style -- not the type of riding you do).

    P.S. If you think in terms of extremes, imagine riding a pixie bike. Its smaller, but I guarantee you that it won't handle very well. Obviously a giant bike won't either, but don't assume that the smaller(or larger) size will necessarily have the same advantages for you as it does for others.

  17. #17
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    sdemars, thank you very much for your explanation. It is very useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    The white HD is not a Large. Maybe a Medium. The seat tube is shorter on the white one.
    The two Mojo HD showed on the pictures were Large, at least in the sticker of the frame I read "LG" in both of them.

    d-bug, thank you very much for your pics. I think when you are stand up on the pedals, the bike seems a bit tiny under you, but when you are sat on the saddle, it seems better. The only think I don't understand is if you are taller than me, why your Large bike looks better under you than the Large bike I demoed.

    To sum up, I agree that the key is testing both sizes. I hope to meet a guy with a XL Mojo HD in order to draw conclusions...

    Thanks to everybody for giving your opinion.

  18. #18
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    Belief about sizing

    Usually you can find an XL SL to demo the sizing is really close, the SL has a slightly longer steering tube.
    I'm the same height, had same dilemma test rode an L -too small got the XL no regrets. Fits me way better than L. But I do have long arms

  19. #19
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    6'2" with a 34" inseam, all torso. XL with a 70mm stem and 750mm bars. Bike still feels small to me. Tried riding it with a 50mm strem. While I could ride it, and adapted. It put me way too far forward over the front end, made cornering awkward. Made small errors much more punishing when jumping and cornering. If you didn't get your weight back just right you felt all over the frontend. Couldn't pump/push on the bars as hard either. I can only imagine being as tall as I am and on a Large. Must be awful on long climbs.

    Dan, you make that bike look freakin tiny! Way too upright and not stretched out enough for doing long climbs. I'm sure you make it work tho. I just don't know how

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dan, you make that bike look freakin tiny! Way too upright and not stretched out enough for doing long climbs. I'm sure you make it work tho. I just don't know how
    Funny thing is I often feel too hunched over and it leads to tightness in my neck muscles. But raising the bar height = poor DH handling. Longer cockpit would make the feeling worse for me. I don't see how you can ride that tank of an HD around, it's huge! I'll order up a bus steering wheel for you to put on it.
    Those who know, ride a Mojo AND a Mojo HD.
    Quadzilla
    Quote Originally Posted by benja55
    Ok, whatever, cold water on my bike boner right there.

  21. #21
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    Well were both on the same boat of not needing super short stems, overated

  22. #22
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    I'm 6'0" on a Large with 70mm stem and 785mm wide bar with a dropper post. I've been on an XL in a parking lot test. So happy with the Large with wide bars and dropper.

  23. #23
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    One quick comment, I think people got into the super short stems to feel confident about not going over the bars, make the front easier to lift etc. but dropper posts have dramatically changed the situation. Now some of the fastest guys I know are lowering the bars and running longer stems trying to get MORE weight on the front wheel to increase the front traction and get more pulling force out of your arms.
    When the dropper post is down it changes everything. You're probably not going to go over the bars because your stem is 2 cm longer since your whole body is about 5" or more lower. Of course they climb nice when set up that way too. The short stem trend has a lot of momentum and might have overshot the sweet spot for all around riding set up.
    Hans
    Ibis Cycles, Inc.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    One quick comment, I think people got into the super short stems to feel confident about not going over the bars, make the front easier to lift etc. but dropper posts have dramatically changed the situation.
    Bingo. For geometry discussions, we should pretty much have separate forums for those with droppers and those without.

  25. #25
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    well dont forget everyones running wider bars too so the shorter stem evens it out. ibhave a 95mm stem on my xc hardtail with 28" haven bars and it almost feels weird. anynlonger of a stem and id need narrower bars.

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