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Thread: 650b hd

  1. #1
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    650b hd

    any recent opinions from ones who switched to 650b? i am seriously considering to change, would keep the travel at 160. i have seen the older threads but was curious about opinions after longer term riding.
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    You have probably seen my threads about 650b with my HD 160 and 140 if you searched on my posts in the 650b forum.

    You have to shim the new HD160 frame's shock 2 to 4mm depending on the bottom bumper compliance to limit bottom travel when using 650b. The older frame (without fixed der mount) requires more shock limiting shims, probably 4 to 6mm total. The HD140 needs no shock mods, and with the same fork and travel the 140 has a 1/4 inch lower BB than the HD160.

    I just bought a new shock for the 160 set up, I'm currently waiting for offset shock bushings for my HD160 to lower the BB almost 1/4 inch, to avoid buying another new shock to make the 140 geometry set up. The offset shock bushings will require adding even more shock shims and possibly a firmer coil spring or just more preload using the HD160 with 650b, to effectively ride like the 140 set up.

    I'll be swapping to a 26 inch rear wheel, leaving the 650b wheel in front, for DH bike park days to use full 160mm rear travel and slack the bike's geometry effectively 1 degree for those conditions.

    Otherwise, I prefer 650b in the back of my HD160 with the shock shim limited bottom travel, for easier rolling resistance and flow and the added BB clearance while my Lyrik u-turn fork is lowered to about 140mm travel for the very rough and off camber horse trails or rocky I often climb.

    With an HD160 and 650b, there's some work needed to limit bottom travel. The HD140 is "plug and play" with 650b.

  3. #3
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    derby, i have seen those threads, lots of good info. i am pretty confident in what needs to be done i order to run bigger wheels. was just wandering if people are still as excited as they were at the beginning.
    i really like how my hd rides but after reading all the positive reports on 650b wheel setups i am temted to switch.
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    same boat here... TEMPTED

    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i really like how my hd rides but after reading all the positive reports on 650b wheel setups i am temted to switch.
    ...but not ready to pull the trigger.
    - -benja- -

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    I've been switching between 26" EDGE/ENVE wheels and a 650b Stans Flow setup. I just returned home from a trip to Moab/Grand Junction trip. Although I haven't logged a ton of mileage on either set, I done enough (a number of rides on each wheels set on a variety of different types of terrain in Northern - Southern Utah/CO).

    I LOVED the way that the the 650b setup rode in Moab on Hazard-Porc. and Amasa/Rockstacker. I made pretty much all the lines except the right hander at the end of the techy switchback section of Rockstacker. The Bike flew down Porc and felt super dialed. That said I also LOVE the way the bike rides with the 26" carbon wheels. To be fair I'm comparing a super trick carbon wheelset to a pair of Stans wheels. Right now I'm glad to be able to sport both options.

    The only real downside I see to running my 650b setup is tire clearance. While some have said this is a non-issue, I feel it is a bit of a drawback. When my wheel is nice a true I get no rub (I occasionally hear rocks getting sucked through the chainstay yoke). In Moab I knocked the rim a bit out of true (would have been a non-issue on a 26er setup) and the tire rubbed the chain stay. Had to make a quick switch to a 26er wheel for Mag 7. For the record the bike rode sweet in that configuration as well.

    HD 140 with Fox Talas (Love it!) 32 150
    650b setup - Kings laced to Flows 14g DT/Swiss spokes and 2.3 Pacenti Neo-Moto
    26" setup - EDGE hoops laced to DT 240s, Spechy Eskar SW 2.3 front, Captain Control 2.2 rear

  6. #6
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    Just don't expect the taller tires like the new Nobby Nics and Mega Moto's to have much clearance. I'll be posting a 650B 'Just In' on the main MTBR.com review page so you'll see the clearance!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b hd-hd_enve_magura_nn.jpg  


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    Is is seamless to switch out the wheelset?

    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBiscuit View Post
    I've been switching between 26" EDGE/ENVE wheels and a 650b Stans Flow setup. I just returned home from a trip to Moab/Grand Junction trip. Although I haven't logged a ton of mileage on either set, I done enough (a number of rides on each wheels set on a variety of different types of terrain in Northern - Southern Utah/CO).

    I LOVED the way that the the 650b setup rode in Moab on Hazard-Porc. and Amasa/Rockstacker. I made pretty much all the lines except the right hander at the end of the techy switchback section of Rockstacker. The Bike flew down Porc and felt super dialed. That said I also LOVE the way the bike rides with the 26" carbon wheels. To be fair I'm comparing a super trick carbon wheelset to a pair of Stans wheels. Right now I'm glad to be able to sport both options.

    The only real downside I see to running my 650b setup is tire clearance. While some have said this is a non-issue, I feel it is a bit of a drawback. When my wheel is nice a true I get no rub (I occasionally hear rocks getting sucked through the chainstay yoke). In Moab I knocked the rim a bit out of true (would have been a non-issue on a 26er setup) and the tire rubbed the chain stay. Had to make a quick switch to a 26er wheel for Mag 7. For the record the bike rode sweet in that configuration as well.

    HD 140 with Fox Talas (Love it!) 32 150
    650b setup - Kings laced to Flows 14g DT/Swiss spokes and 2.3 Pacenti Neo-Moto
    26" setup - EDGE hoops laced to DT 240s, Spechy Eskar SW 2.3 front, Captain Control 2.2 rear
    Apologize in advanced if this is a dumb question, but I don't have much experience with anything other than 26", but am intrigued by the larger wheels:

    Is it seamless when you change b/t the wheelsets of different sizes? No adjusting the suspension, brakes, saddle, etc. when you switch between the two?

    Thanks

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    Hi Gram, I see you are running the db air is there a review in the works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by odin View Post
    Hi Gram, I see you are running the db air is there a review in the works?
    Yes there is!

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    Great! Thank you.

  11. #11
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    I have seen a thread that was listing forks that will clear the 650b wheel/tire but I didn't notice my fork on there (DT Swiss EXM150). It there a way to measure for clearance or is it just trial and error? I have been thinking of trying out the 650b option on my HD140.

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    Doesn't going to 650b make the bottom bracket 3/4" higher?
    The seems like a huge drawback. Any 6" bike I've encountered with a 14.25" BB has been horrible to ride.
    Can you run a shorter length (2.25 stroke) shock to counter this? Or does the DW suspension react poorly to that. I people have tried it on the Blur LT which yeilds good geo but horrible suspension.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    I have seen a thread that was listing forks that will clear the 650b wheel/tire but I didn't notice my fork on there (DT Swiss EXM150). It there a way to measure for clearance or is it just trial and error? I have been thinking of trying out the 650b option on my HD140.
    Last I checked it clears things well, but I rarely ever got full travel so not sure if it would hit the crown. Plenty of room under the arch for a Nobby Nic 650B at 27 13/16" tall.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweatyBiscuit View Post
    I've been switching between 26" EDGE/ENVE wheels and a 650b Stans Flow setup. I just returned home from a trip to Moab/Grand Junction trip. Although I haven't logged a ton of mileage on either set, I done enough (a number of rides on each wheels set on a variety of different types of terrain in Northern - Southern Utah/CO).

    I LOVED the way that the the 650b setup rode in Moab on Hazard-Porc. and Amasa/Rockstacker. I made pretty much all the lines except the right hander at the end of the techy switchback section of Rockstacker. The Bike flew down Porc and felt super dialed. That said I also LOVE the way the bike rides with the 26" carbon wheels. To be fair I'm comparing a super trick carbon wheelset to a pair of Stans wheels. Right now I'm glad to be able to sport both options.

    The only real downside I see to running my 650b setup is tire clearance. While some have said this is a non-issue, I feel it is a bit of a drawback. When my wheel is nice a true I get no rub (I occasionally hear rocks getting sucked through the chainstay yoke). In Moab I knocked the rim a bit out of true (would have been a non-issue on a 26er setup) and the tire rubbed the chain stay. Had to make a quick switch to a 26er wheel for Mag 7. For the record the bike rode sweet in that configuration as well.

    HD 140 with Fox Talas (Love it!) 32 150
    650b setup - Kings laced to Flows 14g DT/Swiss spokes and 2.3 Pacenti Neo-Moto
    26" setup - EDGE hoops laced to DT 240s, Spechy Eskar SW 2.3 front, Captain Control 2.2 rear
    The Neo are quite small in comparison to the new beast tires on the way. I never had any issues with clearance of the Neo's on my HD, can't say the same for the massive Nobby Nic's

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildyourown View Post
    Doesn't going to 650b make the bottom bracket 3/4" higher?
    The seems like a huge drawback. Any 6" bike I've encountered with a 14.25" BB has been horrible to ride.
    Can you run a shorter length (2.25 stroke) shock to counter this? Or does the DW suspension react poorly to that. I people have tried it on the Blur LT which yeilds good geo but horrible suspension.
    More like 1/4 to 1/2 bottom bracket increase, very tire dependent. Once the tire gets around 27 3/4" tall, rear clearance becomes a factor on the HD. Been riding the HD with the Nobby Nic, which would increase the unsagged bb to around 14.1-, and I didn't notice any real issue? You can't fit anything bigger in there than that, and even it is too large IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    Last I checked it clears things well, but I rarely ever got full travel so not sure if it would hit the crown. Plenty of room under the arch for a Nobby Nic 650B at 27 13/16" tall.
    Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet View Post
    The Neo are quite small in comparison to the new beast tires on the way. I never had any issues with clearance of the Neo's on my HD, can't say the same for the massive Nobby Nic's
    So the Nobby Nic's are too big? I'm on the fence but close to falling one way or the other. 650b for the mojo or a separate 29'er.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    So the Nobby Nic's are too big? I'm on the fence but close to falling one way or the other. 650b for the mojo or a separate 29'er.
    The 702mm overall tire height of the Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3's are as big as can clear well enough for the HD swingarm. It's a great tire, light for the big knobs at 720 grms, rolls easy after a ride or two to break in, very good feel of traction and grip for braking and cornering.

    Using the bigger 650b Knobby Nick for the front with a fork that would clear, with a 2.3 rear with enough clearance, would increase front end cornering traction, where more is usually needed on trail bikes to reduce front end understeer and washout and help balance handling.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    The 702mm overall tire height of the Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3's are as big as can clear well enough for the HD swingarm. It's a great tire, light for the big knobs at 720 grms, rolls easy after a ride or two to break in, very good feel of traction and grip for braking and cornering.

    Using the bigger 650b Knobby Nick for the front with a fork that would clear, with a 2.3 rear with enough clearance, would increase front end cornering traction, where more is usually needed on trail bikes to reduce front end understeer and washout and help balance handling.
    Thank you, Derby! I appreciate you sharing all of your experience with us.

  20. #20
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    On the fence as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    650b for the mojo or a separate 29'er.
    I'm currently LOVING my HD 160 but am wondering about going to 650b/140 with it. That said, here in often wet OR, tire clearance is an issue. I've still got an SL around which I was planning on selling as the HD just kicks for 75-90% of my riding...

    ...But also thinking of building up a stupid light 29'er singlespeed for racing and general abuse... Decisions!
    - -benja- -

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmon2 View Post
    So the Nobby Nic's are too big? I'm on the fence but close to falling one way or the other. 650b for the mojo or a separate 29'er.
    Yep, they fit...barely. I wouldn't recommend it, and I would go with Derby's suggestion and run a big 650B tire in front.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b hd-nn_on_mojo_hd.jpg  


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    Good job! 650b HD 4 Me

    I was considering a Mojo SL, but after reading the great info in this thread I'm certain I'm going with the HD instead. Being a big guy and wanting a big wheel bike that can do it all, it seems you can't go wrong with an HD140.

  23. #23
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    are you guys running neo motos tubeless? i have flow rims.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    are you guys running neo motos tubeless? i have flow rims.
    Others will have to comment about using Flows with 650b tires. Maybe better to ask in the 650b forum where there are many using 650b Flows. And you might call and ask Stan's how they recommend the most reliable tubeless conversion with their special low bead hook rims.

    My Neo-moto 650b x 2.3's are totally reliable, never burp and almost never puncture, tubeless converted using a "ghetto" split 24" tire tubes, and Stan's sealant, with Velocity Blunt and P35 rims.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    are you guys running neo motos tubeless? i have flow rims.
    Yes, on Flows... works great, no worries.

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