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  1. #1
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    160 HD 650 vs. 160 HDR 650

    Whats the difference? (If any) between a converted HD or a HDr
    I know I have to shim the shock, but still want the big travel
    And geometry wise...do I need to run an angleset -1? And how is the seat tube angle and BB height?

  2. #2
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    angles are the same, however the BB is lower on the it is also .5 lb lighter and stronger, btw you can't get 160 of travel in either the HD or HDR. Most i've seen is the bikeco custom shock at 147. I've ridden both with 650b and the HDR is more playful and peppy and the lower bb is def noticeable. I

  3. #3
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    they would be about same with hdr being tad lighter with little more clearance for rear tire. if you ride rocky trails like me you might actually like higher bb. if yo can go with hdr it has some advantages over hd. both are great. i have been on converted hd for almost 2 years now. you can always adjust rear travel based on current tire. not gonna be 160. more like 152 max, tire depending
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  4. #4
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    Yeah, realise i will be looking at 150 travel after shimmin...
    I love my coil equipped HD, but want some wider rims and so thought...why not try 650?
    Dunno though as I live a bike with pop that I can rail through berms and chunk
    The higher BB concerns me...

  5. #5
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    I am contemplating conversion as well.. with the new rear triangle coming.. I'm not worried about a .5lb and a little stiffer.. I already have the bikeco tst air shock, I would just need to send it back to them to shim an tune for 650.. I ride very rocky trails where I am, an the places I ride my HD are steep an fast.. otherwise I'll ride my ripley. My question would be.. is it really worth for conversion? I was thinking pike 160 650b on the front, send my shock back to bikeco for tune, an light-bicycle carbon rims laced to hope hubs. But I've also been toying with the idea of completely selling the HD, an just building a bronson.... has anyone had time on both a converted HD, or HDR and a bronson?
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
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  6. #6
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    what about if I got the retrofit rear triangle? how would that affect BB height as opposed to doing a straight conversion?

  7. #7
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    I would like to know the above question as well.. also.. those with the conversion can you fit a 27.5 highroller tire? That's what I'm worried about. I would want it for enduro, but if I have to run a stupid small tread tire on the back, it ain't gonna work for me..
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
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  8. #8
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    dont think you can run HR2 rear, at least not 2.4 one. the largest tire i am comfortable running rear is neo moto 2.3, which is 2.34 wide tread and 352 axle to top. now this is with mojo HD not HDR.
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  9. #9
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    I have the newer HD, not HDR... 2012 HD with the 142 rear etc.. I would be fine running the neomoto I guess even though they are hard to find. I would like to run a Highroller rear. How bout a knobby nic in the rear? I too am interested to know if the retrofit swingarm will fit better tires too.. maybe Hans can fill in? I am contemplating the conversion over the winter, but.. am still on the fence whether I'm just gonna jump ship completely an build up a frame like the Bronson from scratch.
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    I have the newer HD, not HDR... 2012 HD with the 142 rear etc.. I would be fine running the neomoto I guess even though they are hard to find. I would like to run a Highroller rear. How bout a knobby nic in the rear? I too am interested to know if the retrofit swingarm will fit better tires too.. maybe Hans can fill in? I am contemplating the conversion over the winter, but.. am still on the fence whether I'm just gonna jump ship completely an build up a frame like the Bronson from scratch.
    Neo Moto 2.3, Hans Dampf & Nobby Nic 2.25, Honey Badger 2.2 and Kenda Nevegal 2.1 all work (from my own experience). Michelin Wild Grip'r 2.2 is too big, all Schwalbe 2.35 tires are too big, anything 2.4 is too big, Ardent 2.2 is very likely too big, too.

  11. #11
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    Ardent fits just fine

    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Ardent 2.2 is very likely too big, too.
    Ardent 2.25 is now the stock tire shipping on the HDR 650b and I'm running it right now.

    Plenty of room.
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  12. #12
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    thanks for the beta.. but I am more talkin the HD, not what the HDR can fit. Unless this mysterious retrofit swingarm will make it the same tire clearance as the HDR, which no one seems to know, or just hasn't spoken up yet. Honestly I love my HD but want to go 650.. just don't know if Ibis' is gonna be a win for me on this one.. I own a ripley and an HD, and have been a loyal Ibisian for years now... keeping my fingers crossed and right now I'm not overly excited about the tire choices of the HD in 650 but even less excited knowing the HDR doesn't even clear alot of tires..
    determined to put the "mountain" back in "MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!" "HIT IT!"
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  13. #13
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    Good question...

    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    thanks for the beta.. but I am more talkin the HD, not what the HDR can fit. Unless this mysterious retrofit swingarm will make it the same tire clearance as the HDR, which no one seems to know, or just hasn't spoken up yet.
    Ah, I see your point for sure. IMO, which means nothing, I'd be pretty baffled if Ibis isn't going to just offer the HDR swingarm, or a slight variation of it, for existing HD owners.

    I have no inside info or direct knowledge, but it seems that's the more likely route they'd take.

    I suspect it's all about the lower links.

    As for tire sizes, the Ardent is pretty beefy, but I use my HD and now HDR basically as do-it-all bikes; I climb up, I ride down.

    I'm not super gravity centric and I've never felt the need for big rubber in back. I rode for years with a NobbyNic 2.25 in back thinking I'd bought a 2.35, so I'm probably about as crappy a judge of what's "BIG RUBBER" as there is.
    - -benja- -

  14. #14
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    neo-moto 2.3 is vey very good rear tire imho. very decent volume and tread pattern.
    i wouldnt steer away from 650b hd, give it a try, you will love it.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    i wouldnt steer away from 650b hd, give it a try, you will love it.
    Only in the 130mm mode though. In the "160"mm mode (150+ really) with a 650b fork, the BB is too high for a dedicated 650b bike. (mine is higher than 14.5")

  16. #16
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    Not sure this is helpful or not, but another data point for you. I have two setups for my HD: 160/26" mode (160mm shock & fork, Marz 55, 2.4 Schwalbes on Flows) & 140/27.5" mode (140mm shock, 150mm revelation, 2.3 neomotos on LB rims). Takes about 20 mins to switch from one to the other. The idea was to have a trail setup in the 140/27.5 & AM in the 160/26. Was great for a while, but it's been five months since I've had it in 160/26 mode: the 140/27.5 is that good. One of the benefits of the larger wheel size is increased traction, and I'm sure you know about the benefits for chunk. The 27.5" neomotos are just as capable as the 26" schwalbes (nobby nic & hans dampf). Anyway, the two setups ride very similarly, so I just haven't been changing back. In really rocky terrain the revelation is outgunned, but I'm in the market for a 34/150mm 27.5 fork to address that.

    I guess my basic point is don't write off the HD as a pretty damn good AM 27.5 option in 140mm mode, even with the tire clearance limitations. If you like how it rides as a 26/160, in my experience you'll like the conversion too.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Only in the 130mm mode though. In the "160"mm mode (150+ really) with a 650b fork, the BB is too high for a dedicated 650b bike. (mine is higher than 14.5")
    Yeah, that is what concerns me...I want to keep it at the 150 level, as I LOVE running my coil...I would be using a 26 fron t fork though, with a angleset slackening it a degree...would that help?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianthom View Post
    Yeah, that is what concerns me...I want to keep it at the 150 level, as I LOVE running my coil...I would be using a 26 fron t fork though, with a angleset slackening it a degree...would that help?
    I forgot to mention that I run a -1 deg angleset.

  19. #19
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    Would running a 26 fork with a 650 wheel help?
    Thoughts anyone?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianthom View Post
    Would running a 26 fork with a 650 wheel help?
    Thoughts anyone?
    It is about the tire clearance and A-C distance. I used to run a 160mm Lyrik with a shorter A-C (and lower BB), but it can only take a Neo Moto 2.3 / Hans Dampf 2.25, nothing bigger. Now I run Vengeance 160 that can take up to Vee Rubber Fluid 2.4, but the longer A-C distance raises the BB and the larger tire raises the BB even more. Pick your poison - a 150+mm bike with small tires and a high-ish BB, or a 150+mm bike with big front tire /small rear tire and a sky high BB, or a 130mm bike with a big front tire / small rear tire and good height BB.

    As much as I love my HD, if I wanted a new 650b AM bike with 150+mm travel, I would not go with Ibis ATM.

  21. #21
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    i run 26" fox 36. it fits HD 2.35 or trail taker 2.4. clear both arch and crown. again for me higher bb works as it helps climbing through plenty of rock gardens that we have around here. if your trails are similar maybe just try, see how it works. if by any chance you are at front range let me know, i will let you try my setup.
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  22. #22
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    I have a 2012 HD converted to 27.5 with LB hoops and I9 Torch Hubs. I first ran NeoMoto 2.3 front and back and now am running Hans Damph 2.35 up front and Nobby Nic 2.25 rear. The NN 2.25 is just as big as the Neo 2.3 and for our dry trails here in So Cal it is much better. I am very pleased with this tire setup. I am also running the BikeCo TST air and XF Vengeance. I have not measured the BB height, but I have not felt anything negative that make me want to go back to 26in.

  23. #23
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    Thanks guys...
    I dont think I want to mess with the geometry, sitting high as it is...
    Think I might spend my money on a coil front end instead

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarshack View Post
    I have a 2012 HD converted to 27.5 with LB hoops and I9 Torch Hubs. I first ran NeoMoto 2.3 front and back and now am running Hans Damph 2.35 up front and Nobby Nic 2.25 rear. The NN 2.25 is just as big as the Neo 2.3 and for our dry trails here in So Cal it is much better. I am very pleased with this tire setup. I am also running the BikeCo TST air and XF Vengeance. I have not measured the BB height, but I have not felt anything negative that make me want to go back to 26in.
    It must be a crazy bike, got pictures? LB with I9 is a dream setup.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaku View Post
    It must be a crazy bike, got pictures? LB with I9 is a dream setup.
    Click on pic for larger image
    160 HD 650 vs. 160 HDR 650-9230324549_4125b16e25_b.jpg

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